Board Sells - Kroenke Takes Control Of Club!!

[USMartin]

You're a coward and liar and that's that. It's all you'll ever be I'm guessing. And that is solely on you. Good luck with it all the same.

Mods this is ridiculous, how can he be allowed to just insult people like that.

I'll answer this simply enough.

TeeCee makes deliberately unsubtantiated claims and presents them as fact, not as possible fact but proven fact and refuses to provode proof and then uses the fact that I acknowdge I am not 100% certain of what I say I believe is or may be happening as proof that his unproven claims are correct. That is dihonest and cowardly really.

It is one thing to have a different view and to present a reason behind that view to justify it as you have with your reading of David Dein's role - you were told this by a source you believe credible on this. I have asked TeeCee over and over again politle ly and respectfully to provide one piece of evidence to support his convictions and he has refused because he cannot but cannot admit that, and then tries to use honesty he has never shown as proof justifying his own dishonesty.

I haven't insulted him at all really (especially given some of his other comments). Rather I have called his actions with they are, and him what he shows himself to be by carrying on those actions. Except I forgot the word hypocrite.

Yet I'm supposed to be the one with bad spelling!

Mine's just bad typing Boomer that's why

[Boomer]

He's ignoring you Flash.

[flash gunner]

He's ignoring you Flash.

You think?

[Boomer]

You're a coward and liar and that's that. It's all you'll ever be I'm guessing. And that is solely on you. Good luck with it all the same.

Mods this is ridiculous, how can he be allowed to just insult people like that.

I'll answer this simply enough.

TeeCee makes deliberately unsubtantiated claims and presents them as fact, not as possible fact but proven fact and refuses to provode proof and then uses the fact that I acknowdge I am not 100% certain of what I say I believe is or may be happening as proof that his unproven claims are correct. That is dihonest and cowardly really.

It is one thing to have a different view and to present a reason behind that view to justify it as you have with your reading of David Dein's role - you were told this by a source you believe credible on this. I have asked TeeCee over and over again politle ly and respectfully to provide one piece of evidence to support his convictions and he has refused because he cannot but cannot admit that, and then tries to use honesty he has never shown as proof justifying his own dishonesty.

I haven't insulted him at all really (especially given some of his other comments). Rather I have called his actions with they are, and him what he shows himself to be by carrying on those actions. Except I forgot the word hypocrite.

Yet I'm supposed to be the one with bad spelling!

Mine's just bad typing Boomer that's why

Same. I've explained that but it goes on def ears.

Although looking at the bold I'm not too sure.

[USMartin]

I simply cannot fathom why you are hellbent on defending Wenger.

I am not. I am hellbent of defending Arsenal. And I believe too many would rather delude themselves into concluding that the manager suddenly became egomanaical, incompetent, senile and stiubborn, and I just don't believe that this just coincided with the Board overborrowing money to finance what was in effect a stock doping project(the re-development of Highbury), and the resulting increase in the share price from 5000K to almost 1200 just happened innocently on its own.

My concern is that if we accept that delusion we willingly set ourselves up for more of the same under any manager as there is no reason for anyone in charge to change anything so long as we can and let ourselves be fooled that easily. I may be right or wrong. The problem is may be right and the honest fact is there is more actual evidence to support my contention than yours.

[USMartin]

I dont expect us to be spending like Chelsea did when Roman arrived, or how ManCity are splashing the cash. I dont want that. Most other intelligent Arsenal fans dont want that either. Its simply irresponsible.

Agreed. As I say repeatedly I just want to see Arsenal spend more like Arsenal did from 1998-2005. More ambitiously. How much more so> 10 million pounds a year more so. Not much but it would or at least likely would buy another player of Tom Vermaelen's quality as that was what he cost. Five more players like that instead of say Denilson, Bendtner, Squillaci, Almunia, and Eboue. Wonder how that might have worked out, huh?

The things that upset me are the fact that we have so many players in the squad that are not only not good enough for us, but also not good enough for most Premiership teams. If something isnt working, you first accept that there is a problem, then make some change right? But Arsene just keeps the 'faith' with these players? We have too may players without balls - rewarded with nice contracts to keep them at our club. We have one of the highest wage bills in the premiership - does this really reflect on the squad we have? Mind, we have one of the highest paid managers in the world too, rewarded for keeping these players. And I have not even mentioned anything about Arsenes really going backwards in regards of tactical setup of the team

Does he just keep the faith though or has the limits placed on the finances that have apparently been in place force his hand to any extent? Remember the Board insisted over and over again that the new stadium would not have any financial impact on the financing of the football team deliberately avoiding discussing the re-development of Highbury which did have that impact and thus willfully mis-leading supporters and continuing to choose to do so right up through now, as they have still never acknolwdged that they did that.

Our wage structure just happens to be bottom-weighted now whereas right up through as late as 2007 it was top-weighted. The result - we pay our lesser players far more than other top clubs do and and best players considerably less than they do. And this impacts who we can sign at Arsenal and we have often heard on losing out on players or ruling out going for them because of wages alone. Franck Ribery is just one.

And as you yourself point out the manager is well rewarded for not pushing ofr greater investment which may sadly have more than a little to do with this as well. At least with him not questioning this more strenuously or adamantly. And they have improved that reward at least twice since 2006.

[Boomer]

I dont expect us to be spending like Chelsea did when Roman arrived, or how ManCity are splashing the cash. I dont want that. Most other intelligent Arsenal fans dont want that either. Its simply irresponsible.

Agreed. As I say repeatedly I just want to see Arsenal spend more like Arsenal did from 1998-2005. More ambitiously. How much more so> 10 million pounds a year more so. Not much but it would or at least likely would buy another player of Tom Vermaelen's quality as that was what he cost. Five more players like that instead of say Denilson, Bendtner, Squillaci, Almunia, and Eboue. Wonder how that might have worked out, huh?

The things that upset me are the fact that we have so many players in the squad that are not only not good enough for us, but also not good enough for most Premiership teams. If something isnt working, you first accept that there is a problem, then make some change right? But Arsene just keeps the 'faith' with these players? We have too may players without balls - rewarded with nice contracts to keep them at our club. We have one of the highest wage bills in the premiership - does this really reflect on the squad we have? Mind, we have one of the highest paid managers in the world too, rewarded for keeping these players. And I have not even mentioned anything about Arsenes really going backwards in regards of tactical setup of the team

Does he just keep the faith though or has the limits placed on the finances that have apparently been in place force his hand to any extent? Remember the Board insisted over and over again that the new stadium would not have any financial impact on the financing of the football team deliberately avoiding discussing the re-development of Highbury which did have that impact and thus willfully mis-leading supporters and continuing to choose to do so right up through now, as they have still never acknolwdged that they did that.

Our wage structure just happens to be bottom-weighted now whereas right up through as late as 2007 it was top-weighted. The result - we pay our lesser players far more than other top clubs do and and best players considerably less than they do. And this impacts who we can sign at Arsenal and we have often heard on losing out on players or ruling out going for them because of wages alone. Franck Ribery is just one.

And as you yourself point out the manager is well rewarded for not pushing ofr greater investment which may sadly have more than a little to do with this as well. At least with him not questioning this more strenuously or adamantly. And they have improved that reward at least twice since 2006.

Some more DB10-isms

[USMartin]

Fans that pay the most. Really high wage bill designed to underpay the players that deliver, and overpay the non-achievers. Managed by a manager that earns £6m a year that regards success as getting 4th spot when up against a ManUtd team that will win the title with the lowest points tally in recent years, a Chelsea side that has lost its legs, a ManCity side that is so inconsistent, and a S***s side that has gone backwards?

Discussed the wage bill earlier, but agree that there is no excuse for us not being being positioned to win the League in a canter this year. What makes it worse is I really fear this may be our last chance to win the League for several years unless the spending policies are drastically changed from the past six years, no matter who is managing this club

Wenger out. Get a manager that is hungry for real success. Someone that cares about the the fans spending what is quite a large proportion of their hard earned earnings to attend and support the team as a MORE IMPORTANT priority than sitting on the lap of the boardmembers showing them how he is helping the club save money.

See read that back. why are the Board so content with that then? The bottom line is whether as i say they are not making the necessary funds available as a matter self-interested policy or letting the manager refuse to utilize them properly because it happens to serve their self-interests, or even if it is imply as you say and others say and the mnager has just out of the blue lost his skill a judgment and competence it is up to his employers on the Board to address this and if necessary remove him. What have they done thus far? and why have they done it?

We need to consider this because the simple truth is there is nothing to suggest they want it changed at this point or going forward. So the reality is this - a change of manager might make us feel better in June but what about the following May or the May after that or after that?

[USMartin]

I'm not ignoring him - I am just not replying.

[TeeCee]

Martin,
I have given you examples of why a new manager would do a better job then Wenger many times. You choose to ignore them, there is nothing I can do about that as to accept them stops your argument that it's the boards fault for everything at Arsenal. You are an absolute fool who only wants his opinion to be heard regardless of the reasonable and factually correct views that others give.

You obviously model yourself on the tosser managing our club........

You don't see things that you choose 'not to see'
You won't listen to anyone
You repeat the same old shit ad finitum
It's everyones fault but Wenger's (yours)

Jesus.....it's just dawned on me......you ARE Arsene Wenger and I claim my £5!!

[Boomer]

I'm not ignoring him - I am just not replying.

Okay. That makes sence. Your ignoring him by replying.

[USMartin]

Martin,
I have given you examples of why a new manager would do a better job then Wenger many times. You choose to ignore them, there is nothing I can do about that as to accept them stops your argument that it's the boards fault for everything at Arsenal. You are an absolute fool who only wants his opinion to be heard regardless of the reasonable and factually correct views that others give.

You obviously model yourself on the tosser managing our club........

You don't see things that you choose 'not to see'
You won't listen to anyone
You repeat the same old shit ad finitum
It's everyones fault but Wenger's (yours)

Jesus.....it's just dawned on me......you ARE Arsene Wenger and I claim my £5!!

You have not provided any evidence when offered the chance as to the my point which is that unless there is a different financial policy in place things are unlikely to change under any manager. Just as you have refused to provide proof that the Board has made more money available to acquire better players and the manager has refused it.

You want easy answers when there are none just because its well easy. Of course if you're wrong you'll just blame the next guy too and the next one. Or maybe not now that an American owns the club. How convienient is that? But it won't be your fault for advocating the easy position and ignoring the reality that it might just be the wrong one, will it?

Both our positions can be said to be conjecture. The difference is mine is back by some actual proven facts. You have yet to present one of those even when asked and challanged to do so. Whyn should I come around to your position when it has so little credibiltiy that you don't even attempt to provide proof to back it let alone provide insufficent proof?

If things have gotten personal its because you can't accept the reality of that fact. I think the posts i quoted earlier back that.

If you want to have a serious discussion of a serious subject I welcome it. But the fact is you are the one presenting unproven allegation as fact and refusing either to back the allegation with proof or back down from mis-representing it. If you are unwilling to do that little then don't waste my time with your crap and have a little courtesy for other Gooners here and stop tryng to mis-lead them that everything is hunky-dory within the club.

[TeeCee]

Still you fail to listen. So you want me to prove that YOU are right? Fucking hilarious. You are such a retard you can't understand plain English. Let me spell it out for you one last time Martin, as I am not wasting any more of my life trying to get you to understand the queens language.

Wenger is a poor manager with MANY faults that I feel are preventing this club from moving forward.

I believe a new manager could do a far better job, even with the exact same squad as we have currently. A tactically astute manager would get at least 10 points more a season.

Finally, and this is the most important bit because the guy you defend has sat in front of the cameras and said this himself and there was no board member sitting behind him with a gun at his head!

The board and Arsene Wenger have said publicly on Sky TV that money is available for any signing he wants.......do you understand that? Wenger HIMSELF has said it.

Now if you don't understand that Martin, I suggest you take a long drive off a very high cliff as you are going to struggle getting through life if you really do not understand very basic statements.

[USMartin]

The board and Arsene Wenger have said publicly on Sky TV that money is available for any signing he wants.......do you understand that? Wenger HIMSELF has said it.

Now if you don't understand that Martin, I suggest you take a long drive off a very high cliff as you are going to struggle getting through life if you really do not understand very basic statements.

Yes I under stand that...I also understand this

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archiv ... ew-signing“

"If you go on high transfers, you go on high wages. It is linked and we cannot afford that."

Funny thing is he said that after saying on the same website run by the club that there were only 10 players in the world we could not afford to buy.

Funny thing is the shift in our wage policy seems to come as we over-borrow (for stock doping by the looks of it) and whio seems to be behind it ? Well....

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archiv ... -questions

"No I don't think that there is. With Arsène Wenger we have always gone along with his recommendations."

hmmm...

http://www.redaction.org.uk/downloads/r ... 062005.pdf

“From an early stage JB indicated that AC and he were looking for £60K per week and that AC would settle for nothing less.â€

[USMartin]

Oh and I forgot in the spirit of your closing do yourself a favor and drop dead it'll improve you no doubt. About all that would.