As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Theoperator wrote:The decision just seems so typical for us this season in the big matches, a total complete and utter shambles.
Mariner should surely be hung out to dry, it was one of the worst decisions ever. he must be related in some way to our manager as he was so stubborn as to ignore The Ox, and accept that he missed who it was. looking closely I cant see that any official saw it at all, total disgrace that we rely on no video in football, that we arent alowed to watch close decisions on the big screens at the match.
It ranks alongside the goal that never was and the two yellow cards and you stay on errors.
It made little or no effect on the result, we were 2 nil down and being severely mauled at the time. If anything it allowed us to get some breath back
Great credit goes to Gibbs who just walked off. Imagine Di Canios reaction if it had been him sent off like that
Not by a million miles was it - he correctly gave a penalty and correctly sent a player off so the crux of the decisions were right even though he got the identity of the player wrong. Compare that to the same ref's decision at the bridge v baggies earlier in the season when he awarded the chavs a shocking penalty and that penalty ultimately changed the result of the game - at least on Saturday his balls up was cosmetic rather than fundamental to the outcome of the game
augie wrote:Not by a million miles was it - he correctly gave a penalty and correctly sent a player off so the crux of the decisions were right even though he got the identity of the player wrong. Compare that to the same ref's decision at the bridge v baggies earlier in the season when he awarded the chavs a shocking penalty and that penalty ultimately changed the result of the game - at least on Saturday his balls up was cosmetic rather than fundamental to the outcome of the game
It was a yellow as it was going wide. Not only did Marriner fuck up the sending off, it shouldn't have even been a red card.
northbank123 wrote:The mistake Marriner made wasn't just about mistaken identity. It was because he gave the decision even though he didn't see the handball. Neither did the linesman. If they had they would have immediately known it was a penalty and immediately ensured they knew which player it was.
As has been said by just about everyone we can't complain because we deserved to be 3-0 down and down to 10 men, and it didn't make one iota of difference who got sent off seeing as Chamberlain was trying to do Gibbs' job for goals 2 and 3 anyway! But it seems quite obvious to me that none of the officials have seen it yet the decision has been given based on their appeals. Right result (sort of ) but completely flawed process and I'm glad he got exposed for it, no sympathy whatsoever with that coward especially after the Ramires penalty he gave them.
How was it the right result
The shot that ox saved was not goal bound so it was a yellow card.
northbank123 wrote:The mistake Marriner made wasn't just about mistaken identity. It was because he gave the decision even though he didn't see the handball. Neither did the linesman. If they had they would have immediately known it was a penalty and immediately ensured they knew which player it was.
As has been said by just about everyone we can't complain because we deserved to be 3-0 down and down to 10 men, and it didn't make one iota of difference who got sent off seeing as Chamberlain was trying to do Gibbs' job for goals 2 and 3 anyway! But it seems quite obvious to me that none of the officials have seen it yet the decision has been given based on their appeals. Right result (sort of ) but completely flawed process and I'm glad he got exposed for it, no sympathy whatsoever with that coward especially after the Ramires penalty he gave them.
How was it the right result
The shot that ox saved was not goal bound so it was a yellow card.
True. Although when an outfield player dives and tips the ball round the post and the referee is at an angle I do not blame him one iota for sending him off, extremely difficult for him to tell it was going marginally wide. Would be a disgrace if avoided certain goal but only a yellow, whereas intentional handball can't complain overly for getting a red in those circumstances.
Theoperator wrote:The decision just seems so typical for us this season in the big matches, a total complete and utter shambles.
Mariner should surely be hung out to dry, it was one of the worst decisions ever. he must be related in some way to our manager as he was so stubborn as to ignore The Ox, and accept that he missed who it was. looking closely I cant see that any official saw it at all, total disgrace that we rely on no video in football, that we arent alowed to watch close decisions on the big screens at the match.
It ranks alongside the goal that never was and the two yellow cards and you stay on errors.
It made little or no effect on the result, we were 2 nil down and being severely mauled at the time. If anything it allowed us to get some breath back
Great credit goes to Gibbs who just walked off. Imagine Di Canios reaction if it had been him sent off like that
Not by a million miles was it - he correctly gave a penalty and correctly sent a player off so the crux of the decisions were right even though he got the identity of the player wrong. Compare that to the same ref's decision at the bridge v baggies earlier in the season when he awarded the chavs a shocking penalty and that penalty ultimately changed the result of the game - at least on Saturday his balls up was cosmetic rather than fundamental to the outcome of the game
Eh what- FFS so next time that Flamoni has a brainfart lets send Sanogo off, correctly sending off a player, come to think of it Why the F wasnt Eboue sent off instead of Lehmann in 2006, much better descision
Not sure it was a red card either- messing up on a pen is standard these days, but FFS it was the wrong player, and 4 bloody officials none of whom had the balls to say youve got it wrong , how bad is that Augie?
It was a shocking balls up especially when the ox went over straight away and admitted that he was the guilty party, so I am not diluting the fact that it was a balls up. However lets face facts here......we were not down to 10 men incorrectly, a penalty wasn't given incorrectly and the impact on the result was minimal if anything - if it didn't affect the course of the game then we are actually better off as a result of his cock up because now we will have no players suspended at all where as we would have had the ox suspended otherwise.
Lefty, it is all well and good to say that he should have only received a yellow because the ball was going wide, but honestly, was there anybody on the pitch or in the stands that would have thought that the shot was going wide at that time ? The ox was standing beside the post and he thought it was going in (otherwise why handball ?) so can we honestly say that it was a wrong decision AT THAT TIME ? Of course with tv evidence it is clear that the shot was going wide but you cant blame mariner for the red card
Guess we are looking at the mess up in different ways, depending on weather the mistake cost us the game, too true it made no difference to the tennis score, but it did more to worsen the credibility of a ref than any other match this season.
Same sort of thing that the double yellow didnt make much difference to the game but it sticks a lot longer in the memory than some pen mess ups
northbank123 wrote:The mistake Marriner made wasn't just about mistaken identity. It was because he gave the decision even though he didn't see the handball. Neither did the linesman. If they had they would have immediately known it was a penalty and immediately ensured they knew which player it was.
As has been said by just about everyone we can't complain because we deserved to be 3-0 down and down to 10 men, and it didn't make one iota of difference who got sent off seeing as Chamberlain was trying to do Gibbs' job for goals 2 and 3 anyway! But it seems quite obvious to me that none of the officials have seen it yet the decision has been given based on their appeals. Right result (sort of ) but completely flawed process and I'm glad he got exposed for it, no sympathy whatsoever with that coward especially after the Ramires penalty he gave them.
How was it the right result
The shot that ox saved was not goal bound so it was a yellow card.
True. Although when an outfield player dives and tips the ball round the post and the referee is at an angle I do not blame him one iota for sending him off, extremely difficult for him to tell it was going marginally wide. Would be a disgrace if avoided certain goal but only a yellow, whereas intentional handball can't complain overly for getting a red in those circumstances.
Still makes no sense, it's not what you think it deserves but what is the law of the game and the ref has to give the benefit of the doubt to the defender in those circumstances if he is at all unsure, so all in all wrong decision whichever way you look at it.
Did it affect the game, of course, would we still have lost, yes but not 6-0.
augie wrote:It was a shocking balls up especially when the ox went over straight away and admitted that he was the guilty party, so I am not diluting the fact that it was a balls up. However lets face facts here......we were not down to 10 men incorrectly, a penalty wasn't given incorrectly and the impact on the result was minimal if anything - if it didn't affect the course of the game then we are actually better off as a result of his cock up because now we will have no players suspended at all where as we would have had the ox suspended otherwise.
Lefty, it is all well and good to say that he should have only received a yellow because the ball was going wide, but honestly, was there anybody on the pitch or in the stands that would have thought that the shot was going wide at that time ? The ox was standing beside the post and he thought it was going in (otherwise why handball ?) so can we honestly say that it was a wrong decision AT THAT TIME ? Of course with tv evidence it is clear that the shot was going wide but you cant blame mariner for the red card
Augie this is really beginning to wind me up, IT WAS NOT A SENDING OFF, deliberate handball is not a sending off unless the shot was goalbound which it WASN'T.
augie wrote:It was a shocking balls up especially when the ox went over straight away and admitted that he was the guilty party, so I am not diluting the fact that it was a balls up. However lets face facts here......we were not down to 10 men incorrectly, a penalty wasn't given incorrectly and the impact on the result was minimal if anything - if it didn't affect the course of the game then we are actually better off as a result of his cock up because now we will have no players suspended at all where as we would have had the ox suspended otherwise.
Lefty, it is all well and good to say that he should have only received a yellow because the ball was going wide, but honestly, was there anybody on the pitch or in the stands that would have thought that the shot was going wide at that time ? The ox was standing beside the post and he thought it was going in (otherwise why handball ?) so can we honestly say that it was a wrong decision AT THAT TIME ? Of course with tv evidence it is clear that the shot was going wide but you cant blame mariner for the red card
Augie this is really beginning to wind me up, IT WAS NOT A SENDING OFF, deliberate handball is not a sending off unless the shot was goalbound which it WASN'T.
Lefty, it's not that I don't enjoy winding you up (cos I do ), but I addressed your argument in my second paragraph - I don't dispute that the shot was going wide but AT THE TIME it seemed to everybody (without tv evidence) that it was going into the corner of the net. Now, in hindsight, we can state that the ball was going wide and probably could have appealed any suspension on that basis and we would probably win that appeal, but if you are expecting mariner to know at that time that the ball was going wide then I think that you are being unfair and realistic
augie wrote:Lefty, it's not that I don't enjoy winding you up (cos I do ), but I addressed your argument in my second paragraph - I don't dispute that the shot was going wide but AT THE TIME it seemed to everybody (without tv evidence) that it was going into the corner of the net. Now, in hindsight, we can state that the ball was going wide and probably could have appealed any suspension on that basis and we would probably win that appeal, but if you are expecting mariner to know at that time that the ball was going wide then I think that you are being unfair and realistic
Which is what the officials used on the day as none of them saw it . Not that it affected the result but it's a complete farce.
Rafael doesn't get a 2nd yellow for his handball against Liverpool but Alex Oxlade-Gibbs gets a straight red for a yellow card offence?
Lefty as Augie points out if Chamberlain is 1 yard out and thinks it's going in then it's hardly a howler for ref to assume otherwise. I think the defender probably relinquishes any argument to having the benefit of any doubt when they try and deceive the referee and cheat the other team out of a goal. I'm not saying referees should punish this more than the laws stipulate, but it was far from a terrible decision and I have very little sympathy with a defender who gets sent off in those circumstances.
In essence is there any difference between diving and what Chamberlain did Sat (other than stigma)? If it was a dive he would have been lambasted but as it is he's tried to rob them of a goal and con the ref in doing so - yet I haven't seen anyone complain about blatant cheating. Especially considering the fanfare over Henry's composed chest control + assist (or 'handball' according to some) against those whinging Irish bastards
augie wrote:It was a shocking balls up especially when the ox went over straight away and admitted that he was the guilty party, so I am not diluting the fact that it was a balls up. However lets face facts here......we were not down to 10 men incorrectly, a penalty wasn't given incorrectly and the impact on the result was minimal if anything - if it didn't affect the course of the game then we are actually better off as a result of his cock up because now we will have no players suspended at all where as we would have had the ox suspended otherwise.
Lefty, it is all well and good to say that he should have only received a yellow because the ball was going wide, but honestly, was there anybody on the pitch or in the stands that would have thought that the shot was going wide at that time ? The ox was standing beside the post and he thought it was going in (otherwise why handball ?) so can we honestly say that it was a wrong decision AT THAT TIME ? Of course with tv evidence it is clear that the shot was going wide but you cant blame mariner for the red card
Augie this is really beginning to wind me up, IT WAS NOT A SENDING OFF, deliberate handball is not a sending off unless the shot was goalbound which it WASN'T.
Lefty, it's not that I don't enjoy winding you up (cos I do ), but I addressed your argument in my second paragraph - I don't dispute that the shot was going wide but AT THE TIME it seemed to everybody (without tv evidence) that it was going into the corner of the net. Now, in hindsight, we can state that the ball was going wide and probably could have appealed any suspension on that basis and we would probably win that appeal, but if you are expecting mariner to know at that time that the ball was going wide then I think that you are being unfair and realistic
No not at all, anyone could see that the shot was at best going to hit the post (in fact it was going a foot wide) so in no way was it a sending off.
Remember that a red card is the last resort of a ref and he has to be 100% sure, in no way could he have been imo.
Yes and I know you like winding me up, as do I on most on here, it's a mission
Bradywasking wrote:Has Mariner been stood down for next weekend's games yet ? Awful mistake by an official that should be highlighted and he should suffer public humiliation...Imagine if a club made a big embarrassing mistake, like for example taking an illegible player as part of your squad to a make or break game in Europe. Now that would also be embarrassing.
Have to say that I find this marriner bashing a bit ott tbh - yes I know he made an awful mistake by sending off the wrong player but it didnt change the course of the game one jot and the uproar since is distracting us from where we should be focused (which of course suits the akb who are trying to deflect away from wenker )
If marriner had made the correct decision then he would have awarded the penalty and sent the ox off - we were still going to be 3-0 down and a man short and neither were playing well so did it really matter who got sent off ? Some will try and argue that it shouldnt have been a red card because the ball wasnt going in but, frankly that is utter bollox - now, after watching tv replays, we can all see that it was going wide but at the time it looked a nailed on red card.
I am one of the bigget ref critics you will ever meet but I'm not sure about this shit about suspending/standing them down - for me it puts a bullseye on their backs in subsequent games and only adds to the pressure on them. It was one mistake for gods sake - yes it was a big mistake but it wasnt a game changer and it wasnt as if he had been poor throughout (which for me should be the yardstick for judging whether a ref should be stood down) the game. Rap his knuckles, have a quiet word in his ear and move on imo
I was trying sarcasm or irony (not sure which ) by pointing out that Arsenal were equally stupid by naming an ineligible player for a European game.
northbank123 wrote:Lefty as Augie points out if Chamberlain is 1 yard out and thinks it's going in then it's hardly a howler for ref to assume otherwise. I think the defender probably relinquishes any argument to having the benefit of any doubt when they try and deceive the referee and cheat the other team out of a goal. I'm not saying referees should punish this more than the laws stipulate, but it was far from a terrible decision and I have very little sympathy with a defender who gets sent off in those circumstances.
In essence is there any difference between diving and what Chamberlain did Sat (other than stigma)? If it was a dive he would have been lambasted but as it is he's tried to rob them of a goal and con the ref in doing so - yet I haven't seen anyone complain about blatant cheating. Especially considering the fanfare over Henry's composed chest control + assist (or 'handball' according to some) against those whinging Irish bastards
OK just to clarify cos I am too tired to prove an obvious point, I just rewatched the handball incident, mariner is at a great angle to clearly see the shot was going wide, he could not be 100% sure it was going in, 100%.
) but completely flawed process and I'm glad he got exposed for it, no sympathy whatsoever with that coward especially after the Ramires penalty he gave them.
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