The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

[DB10GOONER]

One thing I will say is Adolf Farage is a fucking despicable little cúnt. The stunt he pulled in the EU parliament yesterday was cringe-worthy.

There is a terrible and false perception in alot of countries that the British, and in particular the English, are basically all like him; xenophobic, racist, arrogant arseholes.

Now, I've worked and lived in England, I have many English friends, my best man is English (and a fucking chav fan to boot!! ) and I know the English are basically like any other nationality; you got your arseholes, your sound people, your racists, your workers, your slackers, your geebags and poxbottles, your nice people and your horrible people, your lovers and haters. This is true of every country in the world.

But subhuman shit like Farage is an embarrassment to you.

[northbank123]

Farage's WUMming in the EP was pretty humorous as usual (context ignored) but sadly completely idiotic to antagonise the EU further given the importance of agreeing the biggest deal in this country's history in a relatively short timescale. The mans ego knows no bounds.

There is a clear difference between the party line being trotted out by the EU institutions / big few countries and the far warmer approach from the smaller member states which actually make up the majority of the EU (when they escape far enough away from Angela Merkel to speak that is).

It is a very difficult balancing act for Germany and France in particular. They have to protect the future of the EU and many of their electorate will not want to see them go easy on the UK, but equally they will be under huge pressure from trade groups and businesses to do a swift deal and will be wary that being portrayed as spiteful and difficult is just going to fuel the growing Euroscepticism across the continent.

There will be plenty of posturing but a deal will get done because it would be madness for everybody involved nf or it not to happen.

Theresa May should be the new PM for me - whatever else you think of Boris he is not going to be particularly well-received as a negotiator with the EU. May has always been Eurosceptic and like many I imagine that she tentatively declared for Remain for her own career.

[DB10GOONER]

As I thought would happen, your credit score/rating has been downgraded;

http://www.independent.ie/business/brex ... 39430.html

What long term affect this has on investment is very unpredictable obviously, but if I was an American, or Chinese, or Australian, or European company owner with fuckloads to invest, I'd be very reluctant to now do it in Britain...

what's happening to the yield on gilts?

But doesn't this sudden rush to gilts also indicate a negative market verdict on the UK’s growth prospects? Again, this could really badly affect investor confidence. Also, it has to be remembered that any increase in the UK’s 10-year government borrowing rates (possible) will lead to higher corporate loan rates and more expensive mortgages for you guys.

If my understanding is not totally arseways (also possible! ) wouldn't uncertainty/low confidence caused by Brexit drive investment into risk-free assets, and therefore prices would rise - at least in the short to mid term?

[the playing mantis]

As I thought would happen, your credit score/rating has been downgraded;

http://www.independent.ie/business/brex ... 39430.html

What long term affect this has on investment is very unpredictable obviously, but if I was an American, or Chinese, or Australian, or European company owner with fuckloads to invest, I'd be very reluctant to now do it in Britain...

what's happening to the yield on gilts?

But doesn't this sudden rush to gilts also indicate a negative market verdict on the UK’s growth prospects? Again, this could really badly affect investor confidence. Also, it has to be remembered that any increase in the UK’s 10-year government borrowing rates (possible) will lead to higher corporate loan rates and more expensive mortgages for you guys.

If my understanding is not totally arseways (also possible! ) wouldn't uncertainty/low confidence caused by Brexit drive investment into risk-free assets, and therefore prices would rise - at least in the short to mid term?

I don't know!

anyway if house prices drop and interest rates go up a bit I don't see that as a bad thing.

[Chippy]

Nice to see the EU already dictating that if we still want to trade with them then we have to accept freedom of movement, just like the Americans, Japanese, Russians. Chinese, India do.... oh wait

Try telling me again that the EU isn't a self serving dictatorship.

Oh and as for the racism thing, aren't the EU rules on freedom of movement inherently racist by allowing freedom of movement within it's borders but enforcing strict immigration rules on those from without? Double standards i feel....

Errm none of those countries have free access to the single market, which is what we want. The only country outside of the EU that does is Norway and they pay in more per head of population than we do, have to accept free movement (they are in Schengen) and have no say in the rules and regulations that are set. The single market is not just about trade it is about making it easier to trade, something the Brits did most to bring about.

I'm really not sure how we can spend 40 years bitching and moaning about the cost and rules of the club we belong to, get big discounts and special rules that apply only to us. Then when we stick 2 fingers up at them and say we are off, we say we still want all the benefits of the club but we are not going to pay or stick by the rules. Good luck with that one at your local gym or golf club.

[arseofacrow]

Nice to see the EU already dictating that if we still want to trade with them then we have to accept freedom of movement, just like the Americans, Japanese, Russians. Chinese, India do.... oh wait

Try telling me again that the EU isn't a self serving dictatorship.

Oh and as for the racism thing, aren't the EU rules on freedom of movement inherently racist by allowing freedom of movement within it's borders but enforcing strict immigration rules on those from without? Double standards i feel....

Errm none of those countries have free access to the single market, which is what we want. The only country outside of the EU that does is Norway and they pay in more per head of population than we do, have to accept free movement (they are in Schengen) and have no say in the rules and regulations that are set. The single market is not just about trade it is about making it easier to trade, something the Brits did most to bring about.

I'm really not sure how we can spend 40 years bitching and moaning about the cost and rules of the club we belong to, get big discounts and special rules that apply only to us. Then when we stick 2 fingers up at them and say we are off, we say we still want all the benefits of the club but we are not going to pay or stick by the rules. Good luck with that one at your local gym or golf club.

Exactly!

We don't want anymore damn eastern europeans, even though it was us, the BRITISH, who pushed for greater expansion so as to dilute the power of France and Germany within the EU. You have to laugh.

[arseofacrow]

How many Brexiters does it take to change a light bulb?

Don't know, every time I ask one of them they just leave it.

[the playing mantis]

Nice to see the EU already dictating that if we still want to trade with them then we have to accept freedom of movement, just like the Americans, Japanese, Russians. Chinese, India do.... oh wait

Try telling me again that the EU isn't a self serving dictatorship.

Oh and as for the racism thing, aren't the EU rules on freedom of movement inherently racist by allowing freedom of movement within it's borders but enforcing strict immigration rules on those from without? Double standards i feel....

Errm none of those countries have free access to the single market, which is what we want. The only country outside of the EU that does is Norway and they pay in more per head of population than we do, have to accept free movement (they are in Schengen) and have no say in the rules and regulations that are set. The single market is not just about trade it is about making it easier to trade, something the Brits did most to bring about.

I'm really not sure how we can spend 40 years bitching and moaning about the cost and rules of the club we belong to, get big discounts and special rules that apply only to us. Then when we stick 2 fingers up at them and say we are off, we say we still want all the benefits of the club but we are not going to pay or stick by the rules. Good luck with that one at your local gym or golf club.

Exactly!

We don't want anymore damn eastern europeans, even though it was us, the BRITISH, who pushed for greater expansion so as to dilute the power of France and Germany within the EU. You have to laugh.

it wasn't us, it was our politicians, of all parties.

[arseofacrow]

Nice to see the EU already dictating that if we still want to trade with them then we have to accept freedom of movement, just like the Americans, Japanese, Russians. Chinese, India do.... oh wait

Try telling me again that the EU isn't a self serving dictatorship.

Oh and as for the racism thing, aren't the EU rules on freedom of movement inherently racist by allowing freedom of movement within it's borders but enforcing strict immigration rules on those from without? Double standards i feel....

Errm none of those countries have free access to the single market, which is what we want. The only country outside of the EU that does is Norway and they pay in more per head of population than we do, have to accept free movement (they are in Schengen) and have no say in the rules and regulations that are set. The single market is not just about trade it is about making it easier to trade, something the Brits did most to bring about.

I'm really not sure how we can spend 40 years bitching and moaning about the cost and rules of the club we belong to, get big discounts and special rules that apply only to us. Then when we stick 2 fingers up at them and say we are off, we say we still want all the benefits of the club but we are not going to pay or stick by the rules. Good luck with that one at your local gym or golf club.

Exactly!

We don't want anymore damn eastern europeans, even though it was us, the BRITISH, who pushed for greater expansion so as to dilute the power of France and Germany within the EU. You have to laugh.

it wasn't us, it was our politicians, of all parties.

The politicians are elected by you.

You'll still want these guys working on the streets and in our public services though. Keep the good ones and get rid of the scroungers. Throw in the lazy brits while you're at it, though!

And it should it should have been the politicians who decided our fate in Europe. A referendum is the worst kind of democracy for a decision this big.

[Chippy]

More from that left wing rag the Torygraph.

Those who still believe that Brussels will hand Britain a cake-and-eat-it deal that will enable the UK to retain broad access to the single market while putting curbs on EU labour migration should pause and ask themselves how realistic that would be.

Why would the EU give the UK such a deal? It has already refused point-blank in February, when the UK was threatening to leave. Now that we have left, the remaining 27 have even less incentive to be accommodating.

Those who believe, per Boris Johnson’s original position before the referendum campaign, that Britain should say "no" for a better "yes", don’t seem to grasp the weakness of the UK’s negotiating position.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... t-eu-deal/

[A11M11]

To have left the decision in the hands of our political parties would have meant more of the same with many additions. The public in general have lost faith in them both here and in Europe. AS we can see from the turn outs at our last few elections people are disenchanted and feel disenfranchised. The high 72% turn out was as much as a protest against the system as a desire to leave. As usual those that make their money from instability have taken advantage and manipulated a minor crash and the mainstream media especially the BBC are spreading the government line as thickly as possible. I am currently in Spain and all we are hearing is about students being nearly suicidal .It's quite laughable really. If there is any truth in it, they need to realise that there is a real world out there way beyond Europe and to stop bleating and take the opportunity it offers

[the playing mantis]

Nice to see the EU already dictating that if we still want to trade with them then we have to accept freedom of movement, just like the Americans, Japanese, Russians. Chinese, India do.... oh wait

Try telling me again that the EU isn't a self serving dictatorship.

Oh and as for the racism thing, aren't the EU rules on freedom of movement inherently racist by allowing freedom of movement within it's borders but enforcing strict immigration rules on those from without? Double standards i feel....

Errm none of those countries have free access to the single market, which is what we want. The only country outside of the EU that does is Norway and they pay in more per head of population than we do, have to accept free movement (they are in Schengen) and have no say in the rules and regulations that are set. The single market is not just about trade it is about making it easier to trade, something the Brits did most to bring about.

I'm really not sure how we can spend 40 years bitching and moaning about the cost and rules of the club we belong to, get big discounts and special rules that apply only to us. Then when we stick 2 fingers up at them and say we are off, we say we still want all the benefits of the club but we are not going to pay or stick by the rules. Good luck with that one at your local gym or golf club.

Exactly!

We don't want anymore damn eastern europeans, even though it was us, the BRITISH, who pushed for greater expansion so as to dilute the power of France and Germany within the EU. You have to laugh.

it wasn't us, it was our politicians, of all parties.

The politicians are elected by you.

You'll still want these guys working on the streets and in our public services though. Keep the good ones and get rid of the scroungers. Throw in the lazy brits while you're at it, though!

And it should it should have been the politicians who decided our fate in Europe. A referendum is the worst kind of democracy for a decision this big.

i voted ukip since ive been of age. so they were not elected by me. which politicians exactly urged this expansion and refused to put a hiatus on migration as we had the option of doing from newly intergrated nations?

as for the bit in bold, i know you are attempting to patronise me, but what exactly is wrong with that? thats what a limited immigration system would allow, let those in we need or want. keep those we dont out. if those we let in for low slikked work dont stick to what we want them to do we revoke visas. not rocket science. but i suppose u think letting everyone in is the answer, causing unsustainable population growth and all the knock on impacts that brings.

a immigration system that we have control over allied to a major benefits reform and a huge push in vocational training (and stopping the ridiculous and pointless aim of gettin more people to university) would solve so many of this countries problems.

[the playing mantis]

More from that left wing rag the Torygraph.

Those who still believe that Brussels will hand Britain a cake-and-eat-it deal that will enable the UK to retain broad access to the single market while putting curbs on EU labour migration should pause and ask themselves how realistic that would be.

Why would the EU give the UK such a deal? It has already refused point-blank in February, when the UK was threatening to leave. Now that we have left, the remaining 27 have even less incentive to be accommodating.

Those who believe, per Boris Johnson’s original position before the referendum campaign, that Britain should say "no" for a better "yes", don’t seem to grasp the weakness of the UK’s negotiating position.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... t-eu-deal/

its opinion. no one knows till it happens. im confident we will do well. you are not. you need to escape as you clearly think life if finished.

oh look markets rallied again, and sterling going up again. all the turmoil is caused by dick heads speculating and media spooking people. the markets will go up and down as they ever do. if the media didnt keep banging on about the potential impacts on the markets of brexit there would likely be f all impact.

[northbank123]

To be honest the only way to actually test the public opinion on this huge issue was a referendum - it splits opinion so much that the only parties who can agree on it are those on the hard left and hard right. I don't like referenda but agree with their use for Eu membership, independence, fundamental constitutional changes or significant devolution proposals.

We had a referendum on joining and it was only right that the decision to leave be tested in the same way rather than being taken by politicians. Much of Europe proposed referenda for the European Constitution/ Lisbon Treaty ratification but ditched that pretty sharpish after the people of France, Netherlands and Ireland didn't get what they want.

I understand the motivation behind not prolonging the uncertainty but it was poor timing to hold the vote if you wanted a Remain outcome. The handling of the migrant crisis (predominantly Angela Merkel's work in dictating EU policy for German industry's needs) stoked the anti-immigration sentiment higher than ever before. I'm no election strategy expert but I imagine that a major football tournament with 3 UK countries qualifying would only raise nationalist attitudes if anything. No wonder Scotland voted to leave so convincingly without that distraction

[the playing mantis]

To have left the decision in the hands of our political parties would have meant more of the same with many additions. The public in general have lost faith in them both here and in Europe. AS we can see from the turn outs at our last few elections people are disenchanted and feel disenfranchised. The high 72% turn out was as much as a protest against the system as a desire to leave. As usual those that make their money from instability have taken advantage and manipulated a minor crash and the mainstream media especially the BBC are spreading the government line as thickly as possible. I am currently in Spain and all we are hearing is about students being nearly suicidal .It's quite laughable really. If there is any truth in it, they need to realise that there is a real world out there way beyond Europe and to stop bleating and take the opportunity it offers

yep idiot students crying cos all these students were going to live and work in the eu...and its not as if the erasmus program will cease and exclude the uk, or if these people really wanted to live and work in the eu they wouldnt be abke to get visas as non eu nationals do currently...

why do the young always have BS opinions but once life bites in their 30's they start voting as older generations do. the youth of the 80's should theroetically still be massively left wing, but their not (england is a conservative country, apart from the elitist london that is increasingly a world apart and the inner cities that have high migrant voter numbers)...todays youth will not be left wing either (apart from the odd idealistic leftie) when they are in their 30's. young peoples opinions are mostly a load of idealistic bollox.