Wenger signing new deal soon

Bring Back Pires · Post by **Bring Back Pires** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:20 pm

@USMartin: But Arsene Wenger IS the board. He's the one making most of the decisions, and they just let him get on with it because he's making money.

TeeCee · Post by **TeeCee** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:24 pm

Martin,

Rather than reply to every single post on these forums mentioning the board and asking what proof people have that the board would be different with another manager.....................................what proof have YOU got that they wouldn't give another manager money to spend if he asked for it?

The fact is, you haven't got one iota of proof it wouldn't happen so for gods sake shut the fuck up about the board!!!!

Wenger is the main problem at Arsenal.

USMartin · Post by **USMartin** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:35 pm

g88ner wrote:
USMartin wrote:I think there is a lot ill will at Arsenal Aamong supporters who are just evry frustrated because we could have done so much more the past few year with a bit more money. I think finishing third again and closing the gap a bit won't do as much as it would have to reassure many supporters in say 2006 or 2007.
Agreed.

2007/08 season was very positive, despite what happened after the trip to St Andrews. That team had the "potential" that we'd been told about for so long, yet what happened that summer changed the mood of the fans, and I don't think, as a club, we've recovered since.

We suffered the heart-ache of seeing our season go up in smoke, then we saw our midfield leave (Gilberto, Flamini, Diarra, Hleb + Rosicky out for an eternity through injury), then we had Adebayor acting all big bollocks all summer, and then, to top it all off, we failed to replace what we'd lost... never mind improve the squad!

That summer, the wheels came completely off and Wenger's "vision" stalled.

We're now rebuilding the team that was itself only half way through a re-building exercise, and now.... we're seeing our defence being rebuilt again with Gallas & Toure making way for Vermaelen & Koscielny.

It's a never ending rebuilding process because our more experienced first teamers keep leaving and are usually replaced with players of lesser experience.

And that's why this way of developing a squad is flawed - you can't keep them together long enough. Give us back Cashley, Gallas, Toure, Hleb, Flamini, Diarra, Adebayor, etc. to supplement what we've already got, and you have a strong squad.... minus a goalkeeper, of course

Very disillusioned, but I'm an optimist and still think we might surprise a lot of people.... IF we sign a 'keeper, that is!

I had to comment a bit further on this because it really does hit a huge point. And that is that we haven't simply failed to invest in acquring better quality but we have similarly failed to invest in keeping our best talent throughout the last five years.

There is more than one way to make an omelette as they say and at Arsenal we just microwave a sausage biscuit. We are under our new "more collective" "team ethos" equally unwilling to pay competitive wages to our best players as we are to top players from other clubs. This is precisely why in 2005 we didn't just lose Patrick Vieira but we lost Edu. Its why in 2006 we lost Reyes and the truly Legendary Robert Pires. Its why in 2007 We lost our best player of this era and perhaps ever in Thierry Henry as well as Julio Baptista. Its why in 2008 we lost Lassana Diarra, Gilberto Silva, and Mathieu Flamini

And its why this year we've lost William Gallas Sol Campbell and Philippe Senderos. That's five summers in six where we lost multiple players who played the same exact position. And In the sixth we sold two first eleven regulars.

The point is that if you don't want to spend big on the transfer market fine - you don't do everything you can to drive out any of all of your top players and wageearners if that is the case. If you want to do that then you should invest more in the transfer market to better replace them.

Our problem is we are unwilling to invest in paying our best players or in replacing them if in either case its too expensive, no mater the consequences or how it damages the depth quality and balance of the squad.

USMartin · Post by **USMartin** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:48 pm

TeeCee wrote:Martin,

Rather than reply to every single post on these forums mentioning the board and asking what proof people have that the board would be different with another manager.....................................what proof have YOU got that they wouldn't give another manager money to spend if he asked for it?

The fact is, you haven't got one iota of proof it wouldn't happen so for gods sake shut the fuck up about the board!!!!

Wenger is the main problem at Arsenal.

I think supporter like you are guilty of blind faith in our Board, and you would never admit you faith was misplaced even if they sold us to Hicks and Gillette and set us up to actually face the possibility of Bankruptcy.

I have plenty of evidence that raises these questions, and have posted most of it. You on poother hand simply trust the Board no matter what they do or whether what they do and say are consistent at all. You show your evidence. Let me guess "money is available to spend if the manger wants to" because that really is about all there and if you're honest you'll admit that.

I could provide all sorts of evidence

- The history of spending by the manager from 1998-2005 vs 2005-2010

- A list of the players purchased in each set of years

- The Ashley Cole Report by the Premier League

- The Futbol Finance list of the Highest Wage Earners in Europen Football

- Arsene Wenger admitting the club can'tt pay higher wages than it is now

- The fact that the Board chose not to sell Highbury as originally

- That the share price has continued to rise as we have not spent

I'd go into detail but I'm guessing you wouldn't bother reading it.

Anyway - where is your evidence to the contrary? Really? I daresay you have none but the desire to beieve it would be different. the hope it change. Blind faith that the Board wo do things differently because I've yet to see you name anything that supports your belief.

Maybe you love the Arsenal Board more than Arsenal itself? That would make sense out of it.

USMartin · Post by **USMartin** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:51 pm

Bring Back Pires wrote:@USMartin: But Arsene Wenger IS the board. He's the one making most of the decisions, and they just let him get on with it because he's making money.

No - you're right about the last part but he is not the Board nor is he making all the decisions for it. At the end of the day he is their employee and not toher way around and as we saw long before this manager's timne here and have see plenty since the Board will not stand for anyone stepping out of line. That would include Arsene Wenger I'd bet.

augie · Post by **augie** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:56 pm

Without wishing to be disrespectful to anybody that has posted on this thread to date but I cannot be arsed to read much of it

Right now as things stand this is worse news than the fact that we will be going into this season with the same shite keepers that screwed us over so fcuking badly last season......we can hope that the two *word censored* concerned could break their arms and be out injured for a few months but the stupid deluded clown who is responsible for this mess will still be in charge regardless of sickness or injury

Please please please just do one arsene

USMartin · Post by **USMartin** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:02 pm

augie wrote:Without wishing to be disrespectful to anybody that has posted on this thread to date but I cannot be arsed to read much of it Right now as things stand this is worse news than the fact that we will be going into this season with the same shite keepers that screwed us over so fcuking badly last season......we can hope that the two c**ts concerned could break their arms and be out injured for a few months but the stupid deluded clown who is responsible for this mess will still be in charge regardless of sickness or injury

Please please please just do one arsene

YIKES!

Henry Norris 1913 · Post by **Henry Norris 1913** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:30 pm

I think one more season - to see if any progress is made, and if he admits the team's shortcomings .

then cheerio arsene, thanks for the memories. bring in herbert chapman jnr

TeeCee · Post by **TeeCee** » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:32 pm

I don't know why I'm bothering but I have to reply Martin........

If you'd actually read my previous replies to you on god knows what thread that you replied to about the board...............
You would know that I don't trust the board and don't approve of this board but don't let that get in the way of your single minded crusade and yes, it really is a crusade.

Every club budgets for transfers at the start of each year, this includes Arsenal. Over the past few years we have made an average profit on transfers each year. This means that there MUST have been money available and money left over from transfers each season.

The history of spending by the manager from 1998-2005 vs 2005-2010

That means fuck all!! I used to go fishing all the time when I was younger, doesn't mean I'll do it for the rest of my life, what kind of evidence is that for gods sake??!!!

Wenger has given 18 squad members an improved contract in the last 18 months. THAT is where a large part of our money has gone, rewarding under performing players - that is the managers fault, NOT the board

The fact that the Board chose not to sell Highbury as originally

They did that because at a boom time they thought they could make at least Â£30m more by re-developing it themselves. The fact that the arse fell out of the world markets was pretty unlucky

That the share price has continued to rise as we have not spent

This really is fairly basic stuff mate - The share price hasn't risen because we haven't spent money, if that was the case clubs like Everton should be making good profits shouldn't they? The share price has gone up because the assets of the club have increased with the new stadium for example and we've had two potential benefactors battling for shares, they alone have pushed the share price up just between the two of them.

I'm sure everyone gets fed up of reading the same thing all the time so I'm loathe to say this agin but I obviously have to, to try to get it through to you. Wenger has always said he will not stand for an interfering board, he said he wants full control and he gets that at Arsenal. If Wenger wasn't happy with Arsenal he would not stay. The fact that he's on the verge of signing a new contract suggests he is happy. Wenger has a degree in economics and is FAR too concerned with Arsenal's finances, it isn't his job, he should worry about how we're performing on the pitch. It's great that we're on a solid financial footing but the argument is, for a mere Â£15m (and that's all we're talking really) we could be very genuine challengers this season. Are you seriously saying that you don't believe the board are willing to sanction a relatively small sum on making this club potentially the best in the country again?
So one final time I will spell it out for you

I think Arsenals board lack ambition and I do not like the way they operate with regards to the team and the fans
I think by far the biggest problem at Arsenal, and has been for years, is Arsene Wenger and his refusal to admit that several of HIS players are not good enough.

USMartin · Post by **USMartin** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:07 am

TeeCee wrote: I'm sure everyone gets fed up of reading the same thing all the time so I'm loathe to say this agin but I obviously have to, to try to get it through to you. Wenger has always said he will not stand for an interfering board, he said he wants full control and he gets that at Arsenal. If Wenger wasn't happy with Arsenal he would not stay. The fact that he's on the verge of signing a new contract suggests he is happy. Wenger has a degree in economics and is FAR too concerned with Arsenal's finances, it isn't his job, he should worry about how we're performing on the pitch. It's great that we're on a solid financial footing but the argument is, for a mere Â£15m (and that's all we're talking really) we could be very genuine challengers this season. Are you seriously saying that you don't believe the board are willing to sanction a relatively small sum on making this club potentially the best in the country again?
So one final time I will spell it out for you

I think Arsenals board lack ambition and I do not like the way they operate with regards to the team and the fans
I think by far the biggest problem at Arsenal, and has been for years, is Arsene Wenger and his refusal to admit that several of HIS players are not good enough.

I want to be very careful here, because Iâ€™m not sure about this, but reading thr above at one moment you are acknowledging you donâ€™t believe the Board have ambition and looking at the rast of your post that you do not trust the Board.

Yet you also seem to have no doubt whatsoever that the Board still would provide whatever money Arsene Wenger requested. You ask if I seriously believe they would not. And the answer is yes. They would not at this time. And the proof? That in the last four seasons we have been in virtually the same exact position but it still has not happened once [/b.] And that is the case despite the fact that we have seen the difference it could have made every single year the last four years.

Even if I accept your view, then the Board have had four years in which to at least make the money available and have the manager reject it and to decide that he no longer was qualified to maintain his position as manager. But he we are going on five full summers of this and what is the thread entitled? I think that says it all really.

I agree Mr. Wenger is a more conservative manager than most and less willing to simply demand more of his employers money than he is given because of his background and education, but I donâ€™t buy that claim about him not standing for an interfering Board. After all the last team he was reportedly associated with leaving for was Real Madrid which has the mother of all interfering Boards, as does Barca the other Club most naturally mentioned as a potential next stop (If there is one more management job after Arsenal). And the other clubs mentioned most often â€“ Inter, Juve, Bayern, arenâ€™t exactly known for having Boards that give all decision-making authority to their manager as you would have us believe is how things are at Arsenal.

Besides Bill Clinton swore at every opportunity - even in court â€“ that he never had sex with Monica Lewinski. The fact that Mr. Wenger said that hardly makes it true on its own.

TeeCee wrote: They did that because at a boom time they thought they could make at least Â£30m more by re-developing it themselves. The fact that the arse fell out of the world markets was pretty unlucky

That omits the real truth which is that the economic downturn had no real impact on the project â€“ the Board still made that extra 30 million they anticipated. And the idea that only the economic downturn led to any negative impact the decision has simply untruthful. Its impact on investment in the football team in fact occurred from 2005-2007 before the economic crisis began in earnest. To say otherwise would be dishonest.

The fact is the re-development benefited the major shareholders on the Board immensely but damaged Arsenal Football Club on the pitch nearly as much. Period. And the same would hold true no matter what happened to the economy. The damage was done by then and the Board still made its extra money and saw its share price go much higher for it.

MM99 · Post by **MM99** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:38 am

TeeCee wrote: It's great that we're on a solid financial footing but the argument is, for a mere Â£15m (and that's all we're talking really) we could be very genuine challengers this season.

I'd like to know how you arrived at that figure of Â£15m being the difference between us challenging and not challenging. I'm also quite interested in knowing how a mere Â£15m will be able to buy us both a world class goalkeeper as well as a world class centre back. Whilst answering this bear in mind that the latest two transfers to the premier league have cost Â£17m for an untried Brazilian international and Â£24m for a striker who wasn't even a first teamer at Inter.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 881118.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 910570.stm

USMartin · Post by **USMartin** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:48 am

MM99 wrote:
TeeCee wrote: It's great that we're on a solid financial footing but the argument is, for a mere Â£15m (and that's all we're talking really) we could be very genuine challengers this season.
I'd like to know how you arrived at that figure of Â£15m being the difference between us challenging and not challenging. I'm also quite interested in knowing how a mere Â£15m will be able to buy us both a world class goalkeeper as well as a world class centre back. Whilst answering this bear in mind that the latest two transfers to the premier league have cost Â£17m for an untried Brazilian international and Â£24m for a striker who wasn't even a first teamer at Inter.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 881118.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 910570.stm

The figure may not be entirely accurate but it is not autmatically that far off either given history. Also it is certainly true that another 15 million invested in any of the last four years even just to up wages to certain plyers would have been a significant difference now. I agree more money - perhaps much more is required now. But that wouldn't be the case had we spent 10-15 million more than we did in any one of the last three years I'd bet.

MM99 · Post by **MM99** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:16 am

USMartin wrote:
MM99 wrote:
TeeCee wrote: It's great that we're on a solid financial footing but the argument is, for a mere Â£15m (and that's all we're talking really) we could be very genuine challengers this season.
I'd like to know how you arrived at that figure of Â£15m being the difference between us challenging and not challenging. I'm also quite interested in knowing how a mere Â£15m will be able to buy us both a world class goalkeeper as well as a world class centre back. Whilst answering this bear in mind that the latest two transfers to the premier league have cost Â£17m for an untried Brazilian international and Â£24m for a striker who wasn't even a first teamer at Inter.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 881118.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 910570.stm
The figure may not be entirely accurate but it is not autmatically that far off either given history. Also it is certainly true that another 15 million invested in any of the last four years even just to up wages to certain plyers would have been a significant difference now. I agree more money - perhaps much more is required now. But that wouldn't be the case had we spent 10-15 million more than we did in any one of the last three years I'd bet.

We're not talking about the past seasons or what difference the money could have made then, we're talking about now. TeeCee in his post said "we could be genuine title challengers this season [with the Â£15m]" so it is irrelevant to look at past seasons when the subject of the debate is how Â£15m could help us challenge for the title in the coming season.

TeeCee · Post by **TeeCee** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:00 am

Yet you also seem to have no doubt whatsoever that the Board still would provide whatever money Arsene Wenger requested.

Where have I said this?? FFS what is the point in discussing anything with you, you just make up your own quotes!!
I believe money is available, I believe if Wenger went to the board and said I want these three players who are all 10m each, he would get the money. End of.

MM99 - Who mentioned World Class?

Arsenal currently have one player who may be considered world class - Fabregas. RVP would be close if he could stay fit for a season.
There's not a chance on earth that Arsenal would go out and sign a world class player this summer.

My figure of 15m is reckoning on approx. 5m for a keeper and 10m for another CB. I'm not saying it would win us the league but if we signed Shay Given for 5m (I don't think he would be much more than that) and a CB for 10m - Mertesacker would have been a decent signing IMO and he was generally rated around 10m, then I believe we would have been in a decent position in the PL as I don't think the other teams are particularly strong

USMartin · Post by **USMartin** » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:20 am

TeeCee wrote:
Yet you also seem to have no doubt whatsoever that the Board still would provide whatever money Arsene Wenger requested.
Where have I said this?? FFS what is the point in discussing anything with you, you just make up your own quotes!!
I believe money is available, I believe if Wenger went to the board and said I want these three players who are all 10m each, he would get the money. End of.

This is classic. Even if somehow you had not actually said it before you just said it again above. Are you drinking or just as foolish as you seem? You accuse me of putting words in your mouth and making up quotes when I can simply use your own words and quote your own posts to make my argument. IF you have any doubt as to that â€“ look what you wrote up above

TeeCee wrote: he would get the money. End of

Please show me where there is a hint of any doubt whatsoever in that quote. One hint of doubt. Go ahead. Better still explain how that is putting words in your mouth or making up quotes.

Or how I was putting words in your mouth or making up quotes when you stated this

TeeCee wrote:. It's great that we're on a solid financial footing but the argument is, for a mere Â£15m (and that's all we're talking really) we could be very genuine challengers this season. Are you seriously saying that you don't believe the board are willing to sanction a relatively small sum on making this club potentially the best in the country again?

Now you ignored the entire beginning of the piece you quoted how I said I wanted to be careful and that you appeared to be saying that you both distrusted the Board but had little or no doubt -no doubt whatsoever that i could see that they would provide the manager money any time he requested it under the circumstances you described. Indeed Your question there could only suggest you absolutely trust the Board in that regard as its tone is one of shock that anyone might doubt that they in fact would.

So I was giving you chance to clarify whether you meant the question the way it read or not, and Iâ€™ll give you that chance again. But if the question reads as its written intentionally I wasnâ€™t making up anything or putting words in your mouth. Iâ€™d say its pretty clear you trust the Board far more than youâ€™d like to admit.

And even if you dispute that based on your own question the other statement I quote proves it completely. You are the one making things up here, not me. And given your anger at that prospect when you feel you are the victim of such actions you ought to be ashamed of yourself really.