The Gooner Forum

USM

I have read that the final repayment for Highbury Redevopment is scheduled for this December.

What has actually happened is that various people on this Forum do not just roll over and accept your multiple threads, posts, theories and wordy criticisms of the board.

And hardly any genuine people have signed your petition.

Bizarrely accusing me of dishonesty cannot hide that.

stg wrote:

Niether you or I have the information we should and deserve really

Why should we have that information? Does any other Football club around the world give out anyother information like that?

Because we have helped and supporteed that Board at all times including times that have been of far gretaer personal benefit to them than to the club. Because we are entitled the same loyalty from the Board as we have shown the Board. except for those treacherous traitorous bastids like me of course.

It strikes me that some of you keep inventing excuses for them not tell us more because maybe you fear what they will tell us because maybe it will confirm how mis-placed your faith in them has been. After all if they have been doing everything the right way for for the right reasons, why should they - or some of you - fear doing them actually proving that is indeed true?

stg wrote: I belive that you have just got a bee in your bonnet about this and like a dog with a bone just will not let it go. You said in a previous post that I should go and read some of your posts on other forums ect going back to 2005/06 so this makes it 5 or 6 years you have been writing about this subject. Now there must come a point when you realise that nothing is going to change within the board unless you happen to become a multi-millionaire and buy enough shares to get on to the board.

Ultimately you may be right - so long as Gooners would rather not know the truth than know it . But Like I say that 95% is more like 70% now and will drop that much further and faster if results conrinue on this pah or decline, so while Hopefully we win some things and that can put this debate aside if not to rest altogether (which it may well). But if not the momentum is not for more denial and avoiding the facts. You're going to be wrong side soon.

stg wrote:Also in the 5 or 6 years you have been writing about this you have actually shown on this forum no garenteed 100% proof that what you are saying is true. you do produce alot of media based support for your thoery's and you do repost your ideas many different ways to try and make your points. In truth you have no more actuall knowledge of what is happening within the board than either I, Quartz or anybody else who happens to have a differing view point to you.

No nor have I claimed otherwise. I have simply said that there are legitimate reasons to be concerned based on what we actually do know and the a number of clear inconsistencies between what we do actually do actually know and what information has been furnished by the club about those matters and we should be concerned and want to know complete and candid information. 100% guaranteed proof - as you suggest should be required.

The real question here is where is your 100% guaranteed proof and how have you proven its 100% guaranteed fact, which is a phrase that was used bt someone else who was citing the following sound-bite we have heard constantly for six seasons now “Money is available to spend if the manager wants to spend it…â€

QuartzGooner wrote:USM

I have read that the final repayment for Highbury Redevopment is scheduled for this December.

What has actually happened is that various people on this Forum do not just roll over and accept your multiple threads, posts, theories and wordy criticisms of the board.

And hardly any genuine people have signed your petition.

Bizarrely accusing me of dishonesty cannot hide that.

So the Ivan Gazidis and the Board were lying then? Yes or no? And yes that will do here.

BTW even if the final repayment is in December it only re-inforces my point that the Re-development will have been fully paid for already and as only five falts reamin unsold its additional profits fully received already almost fully received in contrast to the Stands being paid for over forty years and producing profits for the club for thirty years after that. Which makes the comparison dishonest especially when you deliberately fail to disclose this facts and your knowledge of them.


As for your other comments trying to make this about me just won't work.

This is about how you chosse to conduct yourself and this discussion. You choose to deliberately mis-lead and deceive fellow forum members and to deliberately not disclose information that does not support your arguments. That is simply the truth.

The only way it would not be is for you to disclose the differences between the two projects you fail to disclose every time you make this comparison - the differences illustrated above. It is your choice and your choice alone not to and it is an intentional choice to allow your argument to mis-lead readers. As I say you are both aware of these facts and that you are withholding them from your posts. It is your choice to mis-lead anyone who reads your posts on this subject and to knowingly withhold information that would prevent that.

You can say what ever you want about me - I'd be more worried about what that says about you - even when the sole judge of your character at the time is the face starings back at you from your mirror.

How many more times are you just going to move the king out of check?

stg wrote:

Niether you or I have the information we should and deserve really

Why should we have that information? Does any other Football club around the world give out anyother information like that?

Because we have helped and supporteed that Board at all times including times that have been of far gretaer personal benefit to them than to the club. Because we are entitled the same loyalty from the Board as we have shown the Board. except for those treacherous traitorous bastids like me of course.

It strikes me that some of you keep inventing excuses for them not tell us more because maybe you fear what they will tell us because maybe it will confirm how mis-placed your faith in them has been. After all if they have been doing everything the right way for for the right reasons, why should they - or some of you - fear doing them actually proving that is indeed true?

stg wrote: I belive that you have just got a bee in your bonnet about this and like a dog with a bone just will not let it go. You said in a previous post that I should go and read some of your posts on other forums ect going back to 2005/06 so this makes it 5 or 6 years you have been writing about this subject. Now there must come a point when you realise that nothing is going to change within the board unless you happen to become a multi-millionaire and buy enough shares to get on to the board.

Ultimately you may be right - so long as Gooners would rather not know the truth than know it . But Like I say that 95% is more like 70% now and will drop that much further and faster if results conrinue on this pah or decline, so while Hopefully we win some things and that can put this debate aside if not to rest altogether (which it may well). But if not the momentum is not for more denial and avoiding the facts. You're going to be wrong side soon.

stg wrote:Also in the 5 or 6 years you have been writing about this you have actually shown on this forum no garenteed 100% proof that what you are saying is true. you do produce alot of media based support for your thoery's and you do repost your ideas many different ways to try and make your points. In truth you have no more actuall knowledge of what is happening within the board than either I, Quartz or anybody else who happens to have a differing view point to you.

No nor have I claimed otherwise. I have simply said that there are legitimate reasons to be concerned based on what we actually do know and the a number of clear inconsistencies between what we do actually do actually know and what information has been furnished by the club about those matters and we should be concerned and want to know complete and candid information. 100% guaranteed proof - as you suggest should be required.

The real question here is where is your 100% guaranteed proof and how have you proven its 100% guaranteed fact, which is a phrase that was used bt someone else who was citing the following sound-bite we have heard constantly for six seasons now “Money is available to spend if the manager wants to spend it…â€

USMartin

It is clear I want improvements to the team, but why will I not sign your petition?

1.) You have a gripe about the Highbury Redevelopment.
But that is almost finished.
Besides, the board now is significantly different from the board who decided to do that, Kroenke's voice is the one that appears to be calling the shots now.

2.) I am concerned about leveraged takeovers, but I do not think the board would ever publically commit to not selling to someone who would use such a method. They might not be able to prevent such a takeover if it was hostile.
They have committed to shared ownership by action rather than words.

3.) Your tone is one of negativity towards the board, rather than objective enquiry.
Your language is not conducive to dialogue, and your accusations of directors "Selling Out", for the simple choice to sell shares, smacks of jealousy.

4.) You have had ample opportunity to promote your petition by means of social networking, contacting myriad Forums and Blogs, and joining fans groups.
Instead you have spent five years wrangled in lengthy Forum posts and cyclical debates and have only sent one letter to the club.
Why would I would entrust myself to such an unfocussed campaign?

USMartin, I have broken a personal promise to myself. I actually read all your words in this thread

Yet again, you have hijacked a thread and used it as a platform for your anti-board crusade.

Additionally you have called Quartz a liar, and have been generally rude to anyone who has challenged your opinions and allegations.

You have recently called me a liar, too. As well as an ass and a hypocrit etc.

Whilst I personally can laugh at such childish slander, I think it's fair to say that several people on here have taken exception to your insults.

I've taken up your invitation to ask about you on the Steve Gleiber forum. I clicked on the search button, and typed in "USMartin.

It seems you weren't the most popular guy over there . I quote......

" I have decided over a year ago that because of the disruptive nature of some postings (or posters) and in particular USMartin, these people will be banned for good. There are other arsenal forums they can join but not the Steve Gleiber Arsenal forum. I will not allow "

It would appear that you were rather fond of being rude in PMs, too.

I'm not suggesting that you should be banned from here. But I think you ought to rein in the rudeness. And maybe apologise to the recipients of your insults.

Oh, and desist from the anti-board conjecture. It's boring.

I can see Steam coming outter US Martins Ears

mrgnu1958 wrote:I can see Steam coming outter US Martins Ears

I expect when he composes himself, there will be a response a mile long

Not to worry. I just won't read it.

QuartzGooner wrote: USMartin

It is clear I want improvements to the team, but why will I not sign your petition??

Actually I do - you don't want to sign it. But I'lll play along anyway.

QuartzGooner wrote:1.) You have a gripe about the Highbury Redevelopment.
But that is almost finished.
Besides, the board now is significantly different from the board who decided to do that, Kroenke's voice is the one that appears to be calling the shots now.?

That's funny you mention as this other psoetr who goes by the name of Quartzgooner too(you might want to check that out) and he has posetd this anumber of times - even in this thread:

QuartzGooner wrote:
I do believe that such things as the East and West stands at Highbury should be taken into account, and that the new stadium and Highbury Redevelopment can only be fully judged over 50 years.

So unless someone is impersonating you something isn't right there is it? Either its over now or we have to wait fifty years for it to be over. You is this just pick-and-choose when it suits you strategy?

QuartzGooner wrote:2.) I am concerned about leveraged takeovers, but I do not think the board would ever publically commit to not selling to someone who would use such a method. They might not be able to prevent such a takeover if it was hostile.
They have committed to shared ownership by action rather than words.

How have they committed to anything by action if they don't resist a hostile takeover? After all Man United did when Magnier and McManus tried to buy the club out from its owners. So apparently hostile ytakeovers can be stopped by owners willing to stop them by not selling to the take-over candidate. Funny how that wasn't mentioned here. Have to womder why till I realize I'm dealing with someone who prefers not to disclose facts that may undermine their arguments

QuartzGooner wrote: 3.) Your tone is one of negativity towards the board, rather than objective enquiry.
Your language is not conducive to dialogue, and your accusations of directors "Selling Out", for the simple choice to sell shares, smacks of jealousy.?

Oh dear. I guess you'd all be speaking German it Churchill had been a bit more negative about Hitler and less objective about Hitler and the Nazis.

Seriously do you realize how stupid that sounds? I don't like your tone so I'll saty here even though it appears a landslide might be evident and my and proper I'd leave as you advise.

This is not about me you or any of us personally - it's about Arsenal. If you choose not to sign this petition its because you choose not to no matter how genuinely valid or childishly ridiculous your reasoning may be. No one will make you sign or not sign but you. Its your choice as surely as how you conduct this debate is yourr choice. If you are concerned enough to sign you will if you are not you won't and that is strictly up to you because you're a grown-up now. You make all your decisions and no one else. I hope.

QuartzGooner wrote:4.) You have had ample opportunity to promote your petition by means of social networking, contacting myriad Forums and Blogs, and joining fans groups.
Instead you have spent five years wrangled in lengthy Forum posts and cyclical debates and have only sent one letter to the club.
Why would I would entrust myself to such an unfocussed campaign?

You make some very valid points here and I am working on ways to redress these in the days to come as there is ample time to do so, though in fact they should have been addressed much sooner by me and I failed to this properly in some very specific ways you refer to.

Where you are dead wrong and again either have seriosuly mis-understood what I wrote earlier or are deliberately mis-representing it is that this is the very first attempt at a petition regarding this and that while I have pursued this for five years I have not felt that there was even the potential support for such an effort which is why it was not undertaken until now. Whether that support is more than potential will be borne out now over the next several months

But agin you betray the same weaknesses here a number of times which I have exposed and recounted earlier. The problem is not you arguing against what I say it's how you choose to argue - and it's absolutely worng and unacceptable and all I'm saying is argue the same views but in the right way - which is to be as honest about what you write and how you write as you can.

I'll try to be positive here and sauy should you choose to sign the petition because you are concerned about Arsenal Football Club I will welcome your signature. If genuine are not concerned fair enough. Just if you are going to debate thses issues don't witthold information available to you because it undermines the credibility of your case because that is wrong and if you choose to do it dishonest and its no fun calling you that over and over. The problem is you choose to make it true. You can choose not to and still vehemently oppose and passionately debate these views, you know.

olgitgooner wrote:

mrgnu1958 wrote:I can see Steam coming outter US Martins Ears

I expect when he composes himself, there will be a response a mile long

Not to worry. I just won't read it.

Good - saves me the trouble of reading your post I was about to read above.

Everybody's happy then

USMartin

The Highbury Redevelopment is almost finished, final payment scheduled for December of this year.
But it's impact on the club, along with that of the new stadium, is very long term.
Huge projects.

Oh, and what is controversial about saying the board might not be able to prevent a hostile takeover?
They might join together and be able to, they might split and not be able to.
No way of knowing unless it happens.

Oh, and once again you say I am lying.
You join a Forum, have a pop at me and other respected posters such as Northbankbren, G88ner, STG, LDB and Olgitgooner and then wonder why so few people sign your petition?

I'm as happy as the proverbial Larry, Martin

Particularly amused at your typical strategy of dodging the issue

USMartin wrote:

QuartzGooner wrote: USMartin

It is clear I want improvements to the team, but why will I not sign your petition??

Actually I do - you don't want to sign it. But I'lll play along anyway.
d.

Martin you get enough stick so I won't add to it but that makes no sense whatsoever. Any chance you could clarify?

SWL - leave it ahhhhhhtt!!!

'Avin a larf, incha !