AST vs Gazidis

[skizz_b]

This exercise is a PR stunt and nothing else, if preapproved questions and flat answers is the manner of "dialogue" between fans and the club that Gazidis proclaims is so important, I'd rather it didn't exist.

The AST know it's not worth their while to further probe Gazidis as they will be cut off from the club, so it renders these "open forums" pointless.

[skizz_b]

Sorry to double post, but I noticed this on Angry's Q&A about the AST:

The AST intends to always remain in dialogue with the current Board and Chief Executive on ownership subjects, as well as with any major shareholder outside the Board

Have they ever spoken to Usmanov?

[augie]

They are punching way above their weight and have been allowed to get away with it too long.Their website says that the annual survey 2010/11 which is sent to Gazidis and passed to all the board to give a reflection of fans views was completed by 372 fans-YES THREE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY fuKcin TWO !!

372 -as the saying goes .... Never could so many be influenced by so few.

What about the 1000 away scheme members , the 4500 real fans on the herd site and numerous others, even the 9000 on club level, let alone the poor old 'pub level' fans struggling to renew ever increasing ticket prices.

Same with Dead Action and AISA, how many members do these groups have and are they a true reflection of the real fans ?
If the club are being transparent and communicating then these events should be allocating the 300 guests in a far better way and get a chance for some real people to ask real questions

Regarding the 372, this is how many people actually bothered to fill in the survey ; As I have said many times, it is very, very difficult to get Arsenal fans to actually get off their arses and actually do anything

AISA have a few thousand members, but not all would want to attend last night. REDaction do not have members, it consists of just the six original blokes, and anyone else who wants to get involved (ie not many)

Gazidis did take questions from the floor at the end of the Q & A ; unfortunately, one of these was taken up by a 'real person' asking 'Why can't silver members get tickets for big away games?' which was a complete waste of a question at such an event ; So having the aforementioned real people there does not solve the problem.

It was a piece of cake to blag your way in there last night ; anyone with the will to do it could have strolled in no problem but other posters want to just moan about those that were there.

It's just moan, moan, moan, but who wants to do something about it?

This is a serious question ; please don't bore me with personal abuse or the inevitable REDaction bashing : Does anyone want to join AST and put yourselves forward as the front man? Join AISA? The same guy has been running it for years, as nobody can be arsed to take it over!

Moaning on a message board gets nothing done ; who wants to make a sacrifice and get off their arse?

The club used to have the motto 'Victoria Concordia Crescit', but so many of the fans seem to have the motto 'Can't someone else do it?'

What you are talking about mate, is a change of leader but in my opinion the problems run deeper than that as it seems to be the mindset of the majority in your organisation who are happy to be the bedmates of the club rather than actually fight for change so how can replacing one person eradicate that piss poor attitude ? I would without doubt get involved if I was a resident in london cos that is the way I am with my footy but being over here in Ireland I would be wasting my time and everybody else's time if I offered to get involved. My attitude has always been when I get involved in a club or organisation that I do so to make a difference and if I dont think I am making a difference then I would step away - why dont the members of these groups just step away ? By your own admission, most of your members do fcuk all and cant be arsed to fill up a survey so they should just piss off and let those willing to push for change do so. I know the argument is that if people did leave these groups then the groups themselves might fold but imo that wouldnt necessarily be a bad thing - at the mo these groups are seen by the club, the media and some ignorant fans as the elected voice of all Gooners so when they are placated then it seems that all is rosy when the reality is completely different. Let these groups break up and the club will then have to deal with a wider representation of the true Arsenal fanbase who wont be easily pacified and then we might be more inclined to see a show of solidarity and protests from the fans One thing is for certain though, these groups are achieving the square root of fcuk all and that leads me back to the question...........what is the point of them ?

Richpye, I think that we can all agree that all clubs can have a bad season here and there so you can point to the chavs and indeed the victims as being poor last season but you can rest assured that they will be making serious inroads to correct that this summer. We on the other hand have been poor for a few seasons, show no interest or effort in correcting our weaknesses and as a club seem quite contented with our lot and that is the big difference in where we stand to that of our rivals - the efforts they make and the signings they bring to their clubs may not make a big difference to how they do next season but they are at least recognising them and are trying to do something about their performances.
You also say that nobody could have forseen the arrival of a mega wealthy owner at the chavs but that was 8 years ago now and how many other wealthy owners have come into the league in the meantime and we still act like we didnt see it coming Not for one second do I believe that the board believe that FFP will make a difference but right now it makes a great little defence to hide behind. Self sustainability is great but the goalposts have moved and we have two mega wealthy individuals that should allow us to compete the way the system is right now but one has no interest in putting his hand in his own pocket and no will to share power with anybody who is willing to bankroll the club so in the meantime we are stuck in some parrallel universe going nowhere fast

[georgeknows89]

Cook,

You missing the point,

Firstly , Lots were there to see @darrenarsenal1 steaming in to get his questions in at the end and as the king of twitter fair play to him and great credit for all he does in reporting that back like he did to all those that couldn't attend

Plenty of us do a lot but do it for love of arsenal not to put their head above the parapet and appear a big ' I am'

My point is that these groups make out that they represent 'the fans' when they don,t , just a minute percentage.

I get off my arse and got to every home away and nearly all champions league away games so don't treat my like some fukin numpty.

As for being personal , dead action started that with the ante Usmanov banners and will NEVER be forgiven for that,

Love arsenal hate Usmanov is what they will be remembered for and All the flag waving and singing in their blocks cannot make up for the contribution they have made to Kroenke winning the day...so far.

I remember going on shit trains to notts county and derby and Sheff utd in the dire 70,s when we had no hope terry Neil and don Howe so also please likewise don't assume anything about anyone that posts on this site , I just trying to talk facts not bullshit and waffle.

Born Arsenal, live Arsenal, die Arsenal Is the common thread whatever

[gunner_ace]

I never get all of this IRE directed towards Gazidis. At the end of the day he is just a paid (abliet very well paid) employee of the club who has no say in on pitch activities whatsoever. The way I see it is that his job is to maximise commercial revenues and be an official mouth piece of the club. The only 2 things we as fans can probably take him to task about are why the ticket / season tickets prices have gone up , and why our commercial deals are so crappy compared to say Pool's or Utds.

He's answered the commercial deals question last night saying new ones will kick in in 2014, so we will wait and see on that front, meaning he needs to now seriously account for and justify the massive ticket price rises. Which I doubt he will with such large waiting lists so thats acedemic.

Everything else that was talked about last night, i.e. RVP contract situation, big signings, make-up of the board and all the rest is between Stan, wenger and the goalposts. Its just the same as any other big company, as in, we will all know whats going on at a strategic board level when its well, err actually happened.

My beloved Arsenal has no soul left and I accepted this fact a long time ago. It is now purely run as a business, by an absent owner (majority) who clearly sees this as an wealth asset, and as long as it runs at a healthy profit I see no reason why he will up the capital expenditure, as that will directly eat into his nice little nest egg. The sooner every other fans starts viewing AFC like the board does, i.e. as a business, then the easier it will become to accept the mediocrty, lack of aspirartion, happy with 4th situation we now find ourselves in.

I said this on a previous post but the results of years gone by havent been brilliant (obviously), yet they havent quite been bad enough to force an AKB backlash, thus the Johnny come lately gooner with his 2 x replica kit every season, £1250 season ticket and £30 matchday spendings will keep coming back for more. And I tell you this for nowt, as long as Ivan and the money men have a healthy balance sheet and profit to report to Stan then why would he aspire for anything higher?

So ultimatly for all your AST, AISA meetings, banners, protests and internet forum waffle you like, the only thing that will force a change is for a serious amount of fans to stay away from the grove*, and to boycott the merchindise. Its the only thing Mr Gazidis will fear reporting back to Stan, and if the club makes enough of a loss hopefully he will simply get bored and sell up for a nice profit (of course) to someone who actually has some passion in this great club, as I one of my cats smelly turds has more passion about Arsenal then that aloof person we call Stan the majority owner.

Anyway like I said , just do yourselves a favour from now on and take your Arsenal hat off and look at it for what it is; Arsenal FC is a low cost model money making machine for stan. As engineers say "If it aint broken then why fix it"?

* Ironically I thought the black binbag idea was probably one of the better protest ones last season and would probably be the best vechile for disgruntled fans to show their displeasure. Yet after John Cross printed the (poorly researched) story, this is what caused the greatest fury amongst AKB fans on twatter, .com forum and FB. I saw threats to anyone who would dare to put a bin bag down, and accusations that they were plastic fans who should eff off down the lane if they wernt happy. It just goes to show you how many brain washed AKB's you are up against if you want to seriously make noise about the current regime.

[Babatunde]

Aaaah yes the Dead Action apologist comes out with the neoclassical supine bike that the AST and Dead Action have now become famous for.

The intrinsic idiocy of this question is the same as the jokers who ask:
"Who would you replace Wenger with"?

Who on earth would any same minded Gooner want to associate with the likes of the AST? What do they do?
It's a fallacy and moot argument to say "why doesn't someone else do it", because AST and the zombies of Dead Action DO NOTHING!! It seems your predisposition to custard creams and a lovely cup of earl grey served in an Arsene Wenger mug is what you aspire to.

The club has been heading downwards for 7 years. The wage bill is a farcical mess. The manager is incompetent and insults the fans, lowers expectations. The chairman is deeply offensive. The club care not a jot for the fans. No trophies in 7 years. Highest ticket prices in Europe.

And yet, not one of you luminaries has the foresight to address this in a robust manner?!
What is the point of your existence? If we replaced the AST and Dead Action with crash test dummies, would they make it more challenging for Wenger and Gazidis perhaps?

People like me have decided to carry out an economic boycott of the club in its present guise until change is forthcoming.
If I had shares and was invited to this meeting, you can be dam sure the spineless cowardly apologetic garbage we read and hear from AST and Deaf Action would be fodder.

Compared to other fan action groups at clubs like Manure, Newcastle and even Scousers, you lot are about as useful as toffee crisp in an epic sword fight. Pathetic.

[officepest]

Fiddling as Rome burns.

The fans' groups can pretend they have a voice and influence.

The Board can say they value and listen to the fans' groups.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

[flash gunner]

Aaaah yes the Dead Action apologist comes out with the neoclassical supine bike that the AST and Dead Action have now become famous for.

The intrinsic idiocy of this question is the same as the jokers who ask:
"Who would you replace Wenger with"?

Who on earth would any same minded Gooner want to associate with the likes of the AST? What do they do?
It's a fallacy and moot argument to say "why doesn't someone else do it", because AST and the zombies of Dead Action DO NOTHING!! It seems your predisposition to custard creams and a lovely cup of earl grey served in an Arsene Wenger mug is what you aspire to.

The club has been heading downwards for 7 years. The wage bill is a farcical mess. The manager is incompetent and insults the fans, lowers expectations. The chairman is deeply offensive. The club care not a jot for the fans. No trophies in 7 years. Highest ticket prices in Europe.

And yet, not one of you luminaries has the foresight to address this in a robust manner?!
What is the point of your existence? If we replaced the AST and Dead Action with crash test dummies, would they make it more challenging for Wenger and Gazidis perhaps?

People like me have decided to carry out an economic boycott of the club in its present guise until change is forthcoming.
If I had shares and was invited to this meeting, you can be dam sure the spineless cowardly apologetic garbage we read and hear from AST and Deaf Action would be fodder.

Compared to other fan action groups at clubs like Manure, Newcastle and even Scousers, you lot are about as useful as toffee crisp in an epic sword fight. Pathetic.

This club will go nowhere until we get brave, intelligent and combative fans who don't tolerate failure and mangled garbage from retards like Gazidis. The AST, Dead Action and AISA are symptomatic of the spineless, non courageous submissive club we now have.

Got to ask Babatunde what are you doing to address the underlined part of your post? and please dont tell me the 'story' of you getting chucked out at half time of our game with sp*rs

[kite]

He told you already, didn't he?

"People like me have decided to carry out an economic boycott of the club in its present guise until change is forthcoming."

[flash gunner]

He told you already, didn't he?

"People like me have decided to carry out an economic boycott of the club in its present guise until change is forthcoming."

so that works out to be do nothing then..... Interesting stance especially when earlier the quote from Baba was

This club will go nowhere until we get brave, intelligent and combative fans who don't tolerate failure and mangled garbage from retards like Gazidis

very interesting

[Gunnersaurus]

To be fair to Baby though he is doing what he feels right for him so you can't really knock him (even if he is a little highly strung)

Last night was a sham, plain and simple, the minute they asked for the questions upfront is when you knew it would be a joke and nothing more.

[Babatunde]

He told you already, didn't he?

"People like me have decided to carry out an economic boycott of the club in its present guise until change is forthcoming."

so that works out to be do nothing then..... Interesting stance especially when earlier the quote from Baba was

This club will go nowhere until we get brave, intelligent and combative fans who don't tolerate failure and mangled garbage from retards like Gazidis

very interesting

You're not very bright are you?

Is an economic boycott "doing nothing"? You're incredibly dense if you think that. Perhaps you should pick up a book, if you learn to string a few sentences together, and you'd see that small economic boycotts have been the precursor to massive change - from apartheid South Africa to the current impasse with Iran.

Mind you why am I bothering to explain this to you?
By your definition, doing something would consists of bitching, whilst paying my monies inside the ground (like those farcical Manure green and gold clowns did).

The more people boycott Arsenal economically under Kroenke, the faster it will change. Mind you, if your representation is anything to go by, perhaps let's all follow Flash, pay up and then say that's "doing something".

Comedian.

I do love your obsession. Still waiting for your first remotely cogent or intelligent argument.
I've got until 2014, reckon you'll have one by then?

[flash gunner]

How do you know ive 'paid up'?

I see so many holes in your arguement that i have to highlight them such as......

This club will go nowhere until we get brave, intelligent and combative fans who don't tolerate failure and mangled garbage from retards like Gazidis.

followed by....

People like me have decided to carry out an economic boycott of the club in its present guise until change is forthcoming.

Come on Baba an intelligent man like yourself can see the contradiction in that cant you? So what youre saying is youre staying away but you want everyone else to be 'brave and combative'? or is staying away 'combative'? and none of the you cant argue bollocks and youre not clever shit lets debate in a civil manner

[mikeyb772001]

Problem is bapa, some of us find it hard to boycott

You know my views on things and I won’t change my views. But I can’t boycott

Arsenal is a huge part of my life, all my best mates go and we all stand next to each other every game. Also my away credits are over 30 and again the guys I go away games , we are a tight group of friends that appreciate the social side of things just as much as the footie.



Last season was bad, but along the way some of those weekends/nights were priceless. Being pissed as fuck watching us beat the scum, taking the piss at Liverpool and even standing strong after the final whistle with your mates at old Trafford.

I would rather be there than shopping in ikea or watching on a illegal stream hearing the boys sing away

It’s a no brainer really.

[OneBardGooner]

Aaaah yes the Dead Action apologist comes out with the neoclassical supine bike that the AST and Dead Action have now become famous for.

The intrinsic idiocy of this question is the same as the jokers who ask:
"Who would you replace Wenger with"?

Who on earth would any same minded Gooner want to associate with the likes of the AST? What do they do?
It's a fallacy and moot argument to say "why doesn't someone else do it", because AST and the zombies of Dead Action DO NOTHING!! It seems your predisposition to custard creams and a lovely cup of earl grey served in an Arsene Wenger mug is what you aspire to.

The club has been heading downwards for 7 years. The wage bill is a farcical mess. The manager is incompetent and insults the fans, lowers expectations. The chairman is deeply offensive. The club care not a jot for the fans. No trophies in 7 years. Highest ticket prices in Europe.

And yet, not one of you luminaries has the foresight to address this in a robust manner?!
What is the point of your existence? If we replaced the AST and Dead Action with crash test dummies, would they make it more challenging for Wenger and Gazidis perhaps?

People like me have decided to carry out an economic boycott of the club in its present guise until change is forthcoming.
If I had shares and was invited to this meeting, you can be dam sure the spineless cowardly apologetic garbage we read and hear from AST and Deaf Action would be fodder.

Compared to other fan action groups at clubs like Manure, Newcastle and even Scousers, you lot are about as useful as toffee crisp in an epic sword fight. Pathetic.

And there I was just about to congratulate you on a witty, articulate post, and then in the very next one you revert to (almost) your previous 'slag em off and call em names type riposte. Why is it that you feel it necessary to throw insults at people - regardless of their difference of opinion with you? Rather than just 'differ' by means of polemic, ...Surely you can argue without what read as puerile put downs!?

As to withdrawing any 'financial' support for the club, till things change, - something I agree with - while doing so, can be seen as 'Positive Action', it does have it's down side in that our 'place' in the crowd/ground/game will be taken by any number of a long line of sheeple who, still in their AKB comatose state - will simply add their 'voice' to the There's Only One Arsene Wenger' section of the fans.

So if 'we/Gooners' are going to withdraw our financial support, (ie: don't buy tickets/merchandise etc) we also need to follow it up by Public Protest, preferably on Match Days outside the ground for the duration of the game/s, so that we can be seen to be "Doing" something - something that goes against the choice of those who still financially support the club.