Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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arseofacrow
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by arseofacrow »

SteveO 35 wrote:
arseofacrow wrote:SteveO - Mutley's advice, when not pet/disease related, is sound.

Last week's pile of crap didn't really upset me, more the disappointment of it. I had a great weekend nonetheless, whereas some years ago I would have been muttering on about it. Perhaps it's not living around it that helps? That's it, mate - move to another country - that'll do the trick.

I'm available for weddings, funerals, etc....

8) :wink:
Cheers mate - I think if the Great Abou leaves then the trial separation will become divorce :wink:
:)

You know when they say at a wake that he/she wouldn't have wanted this to be a sad occasion....

:wink:

LDB
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by LDB »

Clash wrote: But Wenger has done things that cannot be undone. Under him we have changed forever and not for the better. Without the success he had to begin with he wouldnt have been allowed to do those things he has changed about us.
I can only imagine you're talking about the stadium move. Wenger clearly had a role in it but it was far from him alone that made it happen. I'm going to get roasted for this ( :wink: )but the simple truth is that life moves on and the number of people with highbury nostalgia will dwindle over time and future generations will see the grove as our home. Imagine how Arsenal fans must have felt in 1913 when the club upped sticks to the other side of London. Imo be thankful that we're not playing our home games at fucking Wembley like the peoples-champion David Dein wanted us to.

If however you're talking about the state of the team then I'm afraid you're overreacting. Average teams are transformed by good managers all the time without having to move the earth. There are plenty of good things at Arsenal for a new manager to work with I just hope we don't have to sink too low before we see the back of Wenger.

There is very little that I like about the current Arsenal regime but the stadium move is something that I still think is in the long term interests of the club.

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littlefire
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by littlefire »

Image

:twisted:

Clash
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by Clash »

LDB wrote:
Clash wrote: But Wenger has done things that cannot be undone. Under him we have changed forever and not for the better. Without the success he had to begin with he wouldnt have been allowed to do those things he has changed about us.
I can only imagine you're talking about the stadium move. Wenger clearly had a role in it but it was far from him alone that made it happen. I'm going to get roasted for this ( :wink: )but the simple truth is that life moves on and the number of people with highbury nostalgia will dwindle over time and future generations will see the grove as our home. Imagine how Arsenal fans must have felt in 1913 when the club upped sticks to the other side of London. Imo be thankful that we're not playing our home games at fucking Wembley like the peoples-champion David Dein wanted us to.

If however you're talking about the state of the team then I'm afraid you're overreacting. Average teams are transformed by good managers all the time without having to move the earth. There are plenty of good things at Arsenal for a new manager to work with I just hope we don't have to sink too low before we see the back of Wenger.

There is very little that I like about the current Arsenal regime but the stadium move is something that I still think is in the long term interests of the club.
A lot of what I meant was just my personal preference, stuff about the club that I always liked which we don’t have anymore.

But yes I’d say about 50% was to do with the stadium move which is obviously a permanent thing. Around 40% is how the ethos of the club was changed at the same time as the move happened. Its like we are a different club altogether now rather than the same club just playing in a different stadium. This is hugely down to Wenger and the people he has brought or attracted to the club

The remaining 10% is my fear that the football side of things has been manipulated by Wenger so that it will remain like that for the rest of our lifetimes. He couldn’t wait to fast track his youth policy and clear out the old guard. He did this far too quickly and it was an unnatural transition. Even if that Invincible side were past their best he lost so much experience and knowledge when he replaced them so quickly. A criminal piece of management that did long term damage.

Only time will tell whether the football side of things has changed forever. I just worry that even though a new manager can change the way we play, pick different players and spend more money, I can only see the club going for a Wenger type manager from now on. That’s because they have been led to believe (mainly by Wenger) that this is the right way to do things.

Wenger has also set this nauseating ‘culture’ in place that in many ways opposes the tradition the club had before he arrived. I know he is arrogant but was it too much to ask of him that he respected what we were and worked around it? I think will take years to rectify this and it will take a strong and brave man (again not the type the club will go for) to rid the club of the mentality Wenger has infected it with. Can anyone ever see our club reverting back to a professional, defensive and disciplined outfit in say the next 10-15 years? One that plays with drive, pride and passion? I know football can go in cycles but I fear we will be forever under Wenger’s spell from now on, even long after he’s gone.

Personally I don’t much like Wenger’s philosophy on the game or his vision. I liked it when it was mixed with Grahams philosophy but on its own it is passionless, defeatist and predictable.

One man’s utopia is another man’s hell.

I take your point that the stadium move was not all down to Wenger and I totally agree with you that Wembley would have been far worse. It really frustrates me that we moved when there was so much room to redevelop Highbury though. The Clock End could have been double in size at least, all 4 corners filled and the West Stand redeveloped. The club will tell us they tried but there were too many obstacles but I don’t believe them. They tell so many lies that I am assuming this was another of them. They wanted to move and probably overcame far more obstacles relocating dozens of business’s than whatever the obstacles were at Highbury. Personally I think Highbury was too special to lose. Liverpool have had problems but at least if they ever get things right they’ll still be at their real home (lucky for them their plans to move have fallen through). If we had gone to the Emirates and played the few seasons there with the set of players we all loved then it wouldn’t have been so bad. But that summer of 2006 saw more than just Highbury consigned to history and I think it was by design more than accident. Arsenal dress up the move as something noble. That they were trying to allow more fans to watch the team. But then they have priced a lot of these fans out anyway.

The club in 2012 are good at making money and making excuses but not good at respecting their supoorters and fulfilling their dreams.

1989
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by 1989 »

SteveO 35 wrote:Reading the reaction to today's AGM, last night's and Saturday's performances, comments about the manager, the board etc., there is now more negative sentiment on here than ever before. Even those that have put a brave face on it for some time and been more reluctant to criticise are now more forthcoming with their feelings.

Now I don't kid myself for a minute that this feeling is widespread - we are a small percentage of the total fan base here and a clear minority (as anyone that visits the Bowl regularly will confirm)

So the question is aimed purely at the disillusioned on here - have you ever felt this bad about the club before ?

We forget sometimes that there have been some dire teams in the past - the end of GG's reign, the pre-Graham sides of the early and mid-80s - when we criticise a performance. But I look now at the board, the manager, the players and the whole disconnect between club and supporters and can not remember ever feeling like this.

Its not about crappy one off defeats - I've been supporting long enough to have experienced the Luton, Walsall, York's of this world, and I'm sure others remember Swindon and other debacles from the 60s and 70s. Its about the whole Arsenal package

In the mid-90s under GG, I was dillusioned with the boring, one dimensional football and refusal to spend money (sound familiar) and when GG was caught with his fingers in the till it was depressing and embarrassing. But those that run the club moved swiftly, dealt with it and we moved on. This present shower we are stuck with leave me feeling in an absolutely hopeless situation where I fall further and further out of love with the club with every passing day
100% spot on mate.

Likewise, I feel totally apathetic towards it all now. Fuck you Wenger and board for making me feel this way about the club I love.

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Barriecuda
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by Barriecuda »

I suppose hindsight is 20/20. It would be easy to imagine that a massive, state-of-the-art stadium with 60,000 through the gates for games would give us the kind of mega-money to compete at the highest level against Chelseas, Madrids and Barcelonas, especially after watching us come so close in the final in 2006. But now that we have moved, I think we all realized we've lost a massive part of this club, a huge part of it's heart and a symbol of that same history that seems to be eroding (along with football as a whole). Not only that, the promised land has been replaced by "4th place is a trophy" lines, a manager who's more accountant than accountable, and an ownership group that sees victory in the form of share prices and possibly dividends - all while we get gouged for the highest ticket prices in Europe, last I heard.

So how could we not be disillusioned? We cut off the arm to strengthen the rest of the body, except the body is weaker than before and we really miss that arm. Worse yet, we're starting to see it wasn't the arm we cut out... it was the heart of the club. RIP Highbury :(

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highburyJD
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by highburyJD »

One frequent complaint I've heard here is a perceived lack of 'honesty'
when the manager tells the truth:
that CL qualification is more important to the club than the domestic cups,
he gets slaughtered for it...

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flash gunner
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by flash gunner »

highburyJD wrote:One frequent complaint I've heard here is a perceived lack of 'honesty'
when the manager tells the truth:
that CL qualification is more important to the club than the domestic cups,
he gets slaughtered for it...
Its not the supposed truth that gets everyone its the thought that he has his priorities wrong that annoys.

Now youre going to go on about money and how important it is with sponsorship and we've all heard it but deep down fans want trophies and the bragging rights that goes with them. Bragging about being in the black doesnt go far down the pub or on the terraces :oops:

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Barriecuda
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by Barriecuda »

flash gunner wrote:
highburyJD wrote:One frequent complaint I've heard here is a perceived lack of 'honesty'
when the manager tells the truth:
that CL qualification is more important to the club than the domestic cups,
he gets slaughtered for it...
Its not the supposed truth that gets everyone its the thought that he has his priorities wrong that annoys.

Now youre going to go on about money and how important it is with sponsorship and we've all heard it but deep down fans want trophies and the bragging rights that goes with them. Bragging about being in the black doesnt go far down the pub or on the terraces :oops:
When you hear talk about the ownership possibly issuing dividends, that's when it gets alarming. Especially when the club hasn't done F-all competitively in seven years.

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Herd
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by Herd »

I can remember being crushed when my Religious instructions Teacher told me that the Old testament was a largely a bunch of fairy stories ,but It did help solve the riddle of how Cain and and Seth managed to have children without shagging their mum ?

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SteveO 35
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by SteveO 35 »

Herd wrote:I can remember being crushed when my Religious instructions Teacher told me that the Old testament was a largely a bunch of fairy stories ,but It did help solve the riddle of how Cain and and Seth managed to have children without shagging their mum ?
Thanks for that Herd - so you're telling me that finding out Father Christmas didn't exist didn't have a much greater impact on you?

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littlefire
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by littlefire »

Herd wrote:I can remember being crushed when my Religious instructions Teacher told me that the Old testament was a largely a bunch of fairy stories ,but It did help solve the riddle of how Cain and and Seth managed to have children without shagging their mum ?
LOL - more please Herdle.



:twisted:

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Herd
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by Herd »

Thanks for that Herd - so you're telling me that finding out Father Christmas didn't exist didn't have a much greater impact on you?

Not really Stevo ,as long as the presents kept arriving I would play the game for years with my Dad ,however learning that Mill Vanilli didn't actually sing the songs on the first album was also a crusher for me !

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SteveO 35
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by SteveO 35 »

Herd wrote:Thanks for that Herd - so you're telling me that finding out Father Christmas didn't exist didn't have a much greater impact on you?

Not really Stevo ,as long as the presents kept arriving I would play the game for years with my Dad ,however learning that Mill Vanilli didn't actually sing the songs on the first album was also a crusher for me !
:D

Yes, that 49p spent on Girl You Know Its True at Woolworths....I'll never get that back the bastards :D

arseofacrow
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Re: Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

Post by arseofacrow »

flash gunner wrote: Now youre going to go on about money and how important it is with sponsorship and we've all heard it but deep down fans want trophies and the bragging rights that goes with them. Bragging about being black doesnt go far down the pub or on the terraces :oops:
Flash! :shock: :shock:

Although you might have a point!

:o :shock: :D

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