Under Rated or Over Rated? - Discuss Arsenal Legends

[VoiceOfReason]

Seaman was really poor in his final 3-4 years with us. I had a ST in those days, and was watching him make blunder after blunder every time we played at home. It got to the stage where I wanted him gone, but much like the media refuse to see AW's many faults today, nobody in the press seemed to pick up on Seaman's consistent errors either. It was only when the Ronaldinho free-kick flew in over his head that a mass audience seemed to question him.

If you watch back the season review DVDs in those final years, you'll notice so many preventable shots looping up and over him. It was only the immense fire-power (Henry, Bergkamp, Overmars, Anelka etc) that got him out of jail every week.

His distribution from goal kicks was abysmal too - it always went far right and hardly ever ended up with one of our players. It was surreal when Lehmann came in, because he was actually finding our players with the goal-kicks; it was like we'd been playing with a handicap the whole time.

That said, Seaman - in his prime - is obviously one of the greatest AFC 'keepers ever. A great shot-stopper, and provided us with so many great memories. It was a shame that he stayed with us too long and tarnished his reputation somewhat.

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

Helder was pretty much only considered a flop - nobody thinks he was a legend either
I met him in a nightclub loo, went to shake his hand
but he made me wash mine first. Slightly embarrassing.
(wasn't there a rumour he had huge mobster-funded gambling debts and signed for us to clear them?)



Yeah but in fairness you did still have your cock in it

Fucked up the post there somehow

[clockender1]

Seaman for me.

Paris 1995 wasn't the first time he couldn't be bothered to go up for a long shot. he was a fault for both Zara goals, and he let that crap giggs goal in at Villa Park and gave Manyoo the treble in 1999. he did for a England a few times too most notably in the Quarters against Brazil in 2002 which cost us the game after a great performance.

and that sodding ponytail seriously. W.T. F.

a great shot stopper and i'll never forget that Sampdoria save at Highbury (RIP...) but he cost us at least two major trophies and England probably the World Cup.

I also don't think Merse was all that - he did nothing for England. I loved him to bits though, one of us eh...

Gilberto was a big loss for us imho , Edu too.

[SteveO 35]

Scholes - a good player and technically brilliant in comparison to most of his peers but barely anyone (even United 'fans') would have put him in their PL all-time XI 5 years ago. Now that he's come out of retirement and largely embarrassed himself against good opposition apparently that means that actually he was the best player around a decade ago???

And that's without even mentioning him being given carte blanche to be a dirty *word censored* all his career because apparently it's a reasonable excuse that a central midfielder who has played football every day for two and a half decades 'can't tackle' (chuckle). Or most of the justification for rating him so highly coming from English media sticking a microphone under Xavi/Zidane/Messi's nose, asking them how great they think Scholes is and them being too polite to point out that each of them are at least twice the footballer he ever was.

One of the most overrated players in the history of the English game without doubt - technically limited and part of a supposed golden generation of Mancs that always flopped at international level. The myth lives on as recently as this year when Van Rapist credited him with turning their game at Southampton whilst the stats revealed that he barely touched the ball and his pass rate was as shite as anyone elses.

A bit like Joe Cole when he missed England games a few years ago - his importance grew with every game he never played

[g88ner]

Speaking of Arsenal legends, Chris Kiwomya has just been named Notts County manager

[highburyJD]

3 starts 3 goals Kiwomya!
Schwartz was class, under-rated not over-rated IMO
(only played one season, don't think many say he's a legend on that basis alone)
His legendarily fit though...

[QuartzGooner]

Always hard to answer this type of thread because one can argue for ages over what makes a legend.

In answer to what others have written, I do not regard Merson, Gilberto or Grimandi (as a midfielder) as legends to begin with.
All good players and all "Arsenal men" (even though Merse was a Chelsea fan) but all with obvious limitations on the pitch.

I guess the nearest I could get to saying a legend was not a legend are:

Seaman; superb in the main but went off the boil towards the end.

Ljungberg; fantastic 2001 - 2002 but injuries and illness robbed him of a long high level career with us.


Sol Campbell for me is up there with Adams and Keown as a contender for my best ever Arsenal XI.
If the West Ham half time walkout is held against him, then so too must be Adams's drinking?
Some say this never affected Adams on the pitch but it meant he missed four or so months of a season.
Yes Sol made errors but his generalship of the defence was excellent.

[highburyJD]

judged on single season basis our two superSwedes Anders and Freddy
are undoubted superstars
but on whole careers - not so much
I'd say they're cult heroes. Geordie Armstrong and Ray Parlour are legends
despite not being as high quality players

Sol was the only consistent player in '02
the cornerstone of that defence (I still think '02 is Wenger's greatest achievement)

[Chippy]

Anyone mentioned Alan Smith yet?

[worthing_gooner]

Has to be David Beckham surely. Scored that goal from in his own half against Wimbledon and all of a sudden he was a sensation. Is he a legend because of his footballing ability or because he put England through against Greece?

He was a very good footballer with good professionalism and a nice kicking technique. Was he an incredible footballer, a Pele/Maradona/Messi/Ronaldo/Zidane? No he wasn't.

If he looked like Luke Chadwick would he be a legend?

[LDB]

Non-Arsenal has to be Lampard for me.

Sure he's scored a crazy amount of goals for a midfielder but maybe that's because he's rarely anywhere to be seen in the middle! For years Essien would pick up his slack at the chavs. No such luck for England or his latter days at the chavs where he is/was far more of a weak link then anyone dares admit.

Still a quality player mind with an extraordinarily well-honed and consistent shooting technique. But overrated imo.

[spendsum4uckingmoney]

Has to be David Beckham surely. Scored that goal from in his own half against Wimbledon and all of a sudden he was a sensation. Is he a legend because of his footballing ability or because he put England through against Greece?

He was a very good footballer with good professionalism and a nice kicking technique. Was he an incredible footballer, a Pele/Maradona/Messi/Ronaldo/Zidane? No he wasn't.

If he looked like Luke Chadwick would he be a legend?

Beckham is a good shout. It's weird because I don't think that many football fans actually rated him, it was mainly the Americans and the media because of his crossing ability. Hell even got a film in honour of his crossing/ free kick ability. I rate Beckham higher than Lampard and Gerrard though. Atleast Beckham doesn't freeze when it comes to internationals.

[GranadaJoe]

At a time when I went to quite a few games, Merse used to drive me mad. A lot of people thought he was brilliant, but for me, being brilliant once every half a dozen games wasn't good enough. If only he'd left the 'substances' alone and applied himself a bit more.

[goonersid]

Seaman was really poor in his final 3-4 years with us. I had a ST in those days, and was watching him make blunder after blunder every time we played at home. It got to the stage where I wanted him gone, but much like the media refuse to see AW's many faults today, nobody in the press seemed to pick up on Seaman's consistent errors either. It was only when the Ronaldinho free-kick flew in over his head that a mass audience seemed to question him.

If you watch back the season review DVDs in those final years, you'll notice so many preventable shots looping up and over him. It was only the immense fire-power (Henry, Bergkamp, Overmars, Anelka etc) that got him out of jail every week.

His distribution from goal kicks was abysmal too - it always went far right and hardly ever ended up with one of our players. It was surreal when Lehmann came in, because he was actually finding our players with the goal-kicks; it was like we'd been playing with a handicap the whole time.

That said, Seaman - in his prime - is obviously one of the greatest AFC 'keepers ever. A great shot-stopper, and provided us with so many great memories. It was a shame that he stayed with us too long and tarnished his reputation somewhat.

Seaman played on 2 or 3 seasons too long, I remember reading a stat (please don't beat me db10) in one of his final seasons that he had the worst shots to saves ratios in the prem league, basically if it wasn't at him it was in.
As for poor performances Giggs semi final goal and owens second in the cup final should have been saved.

[DarylAFC]

As some have already said, Seaman.

For non-Arsenal players, Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham. Time for some controversy...

Pele.

Great player, but he wasn't the greatest of all time IMO. And he couldn't get a hard on.