The Gooner Forum

The interesting thing is how people seem to have either loved or hated her.
Am I the only one who thinks she was a bit of good and a bit of bad, as per my earlier post?

For all the people who remember the industries that declined under her, there were those that grew.
I am old enough to remember the seventies, and we were in a shocking mess.
Power cuts, strikes, rubbish bags on the streets for weeks etc.

Then again I remember the miners collecting for money to buy food, knowing their jobs and communities were prematurely finished.

Yet she took in a Jewish refugee during world war two who would have been killed if she had not raised funds to get her out of Vienna.

Perhaps as Lord Young said on TV, it is too soon to judge her legacy.

I think she would win an election held today, though not by much.

Reckon some anarchist group will go nuts in the West End during her funeral.

Think they should have had a minutes silence at old Trafford tonight to give football fans the chance to show their respect. Hope we get the chance next weekend. ...

MK Gould wrote:Think they should have had a minutes silence at old Trafford tonight to give football fans the chance to show their respect. Hope we get the chance next weekend. ...

Despite my contempt for the FA and their lack of common touch I don't for a minute think that they would ever have been stupid enough.

donaldo wrote:Good riddance to her

In 1979 unemployment was 0ne and a quarter million.Remember the Tory posters Labour isnt working.Within 3 years of her premiership it was 3 and a half million

She did nothing about the troubles in Northern Ireland which first John Major and then Tony Blair succeded in getting both sides around the table

Bury the bitch in the Falklands

Sorry Don, have to jump in there. It's a myth that Major or Blair did anything to initiate the peace process as indeed it's a myth that Clinton did. One man initiated the process and did it when it wasn't a popular thing to do. That man was John Hume and he was initially rebuked and criticized for sitting down and talking to both sides of the sectarian divide by Major in particular. But Hume kept trying to bring the real power brokers in the North on board. Then when the politicians in England and Ireland saw that it might just work if everyone was included they all jumped on the bandwagon. Hume was then a major organiser of the unofficial talks between the British government and Sinn Féin, in effort to bring Sinn Féin to the discussion table openly. Those talks led directly to the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985. He was then a key part of the talks that delivered the 1994 IRA ceasefire which ultimately led to the Good Friday agreement. So many politicians took credit for his ideas and his work it is sickening.

Met him in RTE studios in Dublin once and he is an absolute gent. A very humble and decent man.

QuartzGooner wrote:The interesting thing is how people seem to have either loved or hated her.
Am I the only one who thinks she was a bit of good and a bit of bad, as per my earlier post?

I also think that Quartz but for me the often ill-informed and short-sighted bile that gets spouted about her makes it hard to appear like anything but a lover. When there are people who think she is "pure evil" there is no reasonable position you can take that isn't going to make you a "tory boy" or some such rubbish.

But I would like to talk about FACTS. Mining was on its way out across Europe regardless of what Thatcher did, uncooperative militant unions merely sped up the process. More mines closed in the preceding Labour government then did during Thatcher's govt, FACT. Government spending increased in real terms throughout her time in office, FACT. It was Thatcher who bought Japanese investment (Nissan) to the North East of England, FACT.

The mistakes? Single European Act sold this country far down the river into Brussels and her crocodile tears after the event are no consolation. The Poll Tax was a decent idea not done properly. The rates are/were a diabolical system and that we essentially still have them today is an unfunny joke. However, the poll tax needed to be introduced with a rebalancing of income tax to make sure it was not just a tax for the poor.

LDB wrote:

QuartzGooner wrote:The interesting thing is how people seem to have either loved or hated her.
Am I the only one who thinks she was a bit of good and a bit of bad, as per my earlier post?

I also think that Quartz but for me the often ill-informed and short-sighted bile that gets spouted about her makes it hard to appear like anything but a lover. When there are people who think she is "pure evil" there is no reasonable position you can take that isn't going to make you a "tory boy" or some such rubbish.

But I would like to talk about FACTS. Mining was on its way out across Europe regardless of what Thatcher did, uncooperative militant unions merely sped up the process. More mines closed in the preceding Labour government then did during Thatcher's govt, FACT. Government spending increased in real terms throughout her time in office, FACT. It was Thatcher who bought Japanese investment (Nissan) to the North East of England, FACT.

The mistakes? Single European Act sold this country far down the river into Brussels and her crocodile tears after the event are no consolation. The Poll Tax was a decent idea not done properly. The rates are/were a diabolical system and that we essentially still have them today is an unfunny joke. However, the poll tax needed to be introduced with a rebalancing of income tax to make sure it was not just a tax for the poor.

The closure programme was started by the Wilson / Callaghan Government. But that does not fit with people's skewed view of the matter - so instead it is just ignored.

northbank123 wrote:

MK Gould wrote:

northbank123 wrote:I can understand the extreme nature of people's hostility towards her if they were personally affected in some way by her policies - whether it be themselves, their families or their region.

Good on them. It will be a sad day if people can only have strong views if personally affected by something and if students can't read up on what Thatcher did and be hostile then god help the rest of us.

I grew up during the Thatcher era. Working class family, but in the south east. We didn't personally lose our jobs. I even exercised the right to buy my council flat. But that doesn't mean I was blind to the divisive way she ran the country. And you should remember that if she had her way away fans would have been banned. She absolutely hated football fans!!

I was talking about the young people/students who couldn't even tell you what decade she was in power or one of her single policies or even what she generally stood for, and who would never ever consider registering to vote - not those who have a genuine understanding and passion on her/the subject. Believe me, I've met plenty of those people, and I'd put a large number of good friends in that bracket.

I'm not spouting some elitist rubbish that only people with a university degree and/or an interest in politics has a right to an opinion on the matter or anything like that, but I don't think it's unreasonable to criticise people for cheering somebody dying without even knowing why they supposedly hate said person. If you're going to express your delight at somebody's death then the least you can do is make sure you're informed and have a bit of knowledge on the matter.

This is spot on, I've lost count of the amount of these types of people I've met. But its not just that they lack knowledge about Thatcher and her policies but most of them have little to no understanding of the context of the country when she came to power. Coming off the back of wet, weak and ineffective governments of heath, wilson and Callaghan. Three day weeks, 98p in the pound tax rates, runaway inflation and frankly all the politicians since the war had been interested in doing was managing our decline. It's called the post-war consensus and while it had good intentions it was smothering any idea of us being internationally competitive. Thatcher restored a bit of fight to this country even though she was far from perfect.

PS. http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/soci ... 3040865066

Lest we forget her deregulation of the financial markets/banks and where we actually are right now due to this.

Thanks Maggie.

Top Londoner wrote:Lest we forget her deregulation of the financial markets/banks and where we actually are right now due to this.

Thanks Maggie.

Blaming Thatcher for economic crises that occur 20 years after she left office is one of my favourite little quirks of the left. It was Clinton's deregulations in the states that set the ball rolling on the 2009 crash. In this country it was a bit of thatcher, a bit of major and a bit of blair but to blame thatcher for the current recession is strenuous in the extreme.

Top Londoner wrote:Lest we forget her deregulation of the financial markets/banks and where we actually are right now due to this.

Thanks Maggie.

I'm sorry mate but suggesting she was effectively responsible for the global financial crisis is bollocks.

The level of regulation in the UK was absolutely ridiculous before her reforms, civil servants were allowed to exert ridiculous amounts of control over people's decisions in everyday lives and it was severely hampering not just the economy but society. She was still in favour of regulating banks and the financial market to ensure that they properly performed their functions and actually passed some stringent legislation in this regard.

In no way did she advocate giving financial institutions carte blanche to basically go gambling people's money away, or encourage powerful Western economies to take of uncontrollable levels of debt as they started doing in the 90s onwards.

Top Londoner wrote:Lest we forget her deregulation of the financial markets/banks and where we actually are right now due to this.

Thanks Maggie.

So a global economic crisis is now Thatchers fault? Are the Cypriots blaming her?

northbank123 wrote:

Top Londoner wrote:Lest we forget her deregulation of the financial markets/banks and where we actually are right now due to this.

Thanks Maggie.

I'm sorry mate but suggesting she was effectively responsible for the global financial crisis is bollocks.

The level of regulation in the UK was absolutely ridiculous before her reforms, civil servants were allowed to exert ridiculous amounts of control over people's decisions in everyday lives and it was severely hampering not just the economy but society. She was still in favour of regulating banks and the financial market to ensure that they properly performed their functions and actually passed some stringent legislation in this regard.

In no way did she advocate giving financial institutions carte blanche to basically go gambling people's money away, or encourage powerful Western economies to take of uncontrollable levels of debt as they started doing in the 90s onwards.

True, she was a monetarist and any proper monetarist understands the importance of controlling the supply of money and not let it get out of hand because otherwise you get inflation and asset bubbles. I remember a former lecturer of mine who described New Labour as "monetarism without controlling the money supply". That's like being a gooner and quite liking spurs

Lol, you are nice chaps and good posters, LDB, NB23 and flash. We ain't gonna fall out, but imo she set a precedent for the me me me culture that we now live in. She bears no direct responsibility for the common day financial collapse but, her deregulation led to the free for all bankers screwing us over I reckon.

Top Londoner wrote:Lol, you are nice chaps and good posters, LDB, NB23 and flash. We ain't gonna fall out, but imo she set a precedent for the me me me culture that we now live in. She bears no direct responsibility for the common day financial collapse but, her deregulation led to the free for all bankers screwing us over I reckon.

I think everyone is having a little difficulty seeing the wood for the trees. What really caused the global credit crisis was Arsene Wenger.

Besides NB123.

Are there many Welshmen drowning their sorrows over her demise tonight?