THE WENGER THREAD

[1989]

Amazing the lengths the hardcore WOB'ers will goto to deny Wenger even the slightest bit of credit

"Aren't we 5 points down on last year from the same fixtures?"

Credit for what?

He probably means credit for our results since March, I'd imagine. I think we've got more points in that period than anyone else in the league.

Credit where it's due really. Most people wouldn't have predicted it.

And "credit" doesn't mean you have to like the bloke or even think he's the right man for the job. It's just an acknowledgement that's all. Something some people seem loath to do which seems a little mean spirited to me.

Spot on mate. I still want Wenger out, but I recognize the good job he's done of late and our recent results speak for themselves. Give credit where credit is due.

[northbank123]

As much as there are those who don't like giving him any credit at all there are also those on here who simply won't hear a bad word against him. As well as the usual suspects the likes of g88ner and 1989 (both of whom have unsurprisingly chimed in with their agreement above) have spent the last few weeks trawling the threads on this board and correcting just about every negative post.

[LDB]

As much as there are those who don't like giving him any credit at all there are also those on here who simply won't hear a bad word against him. As well as the usual suspects the likes of g88ner and 1989 (both have unsurprisingly chimed in with their agreement above) have spent the last few weeks trawling the threads on this board and correcting just about every negative post.

Well, this forum is in a funny place at the moment. It has been so overwhelmingly negative for the past 3 years that I think some people are refusing to take a balanced view so they can chirp up and say I told you so next time we lose.

Its interesting that people accuse 'AKBs' of being like a religion yet it's steveo throwing his toys out because he perceives people to have abandoned his 'cause'

[SteveO 35]

Amazing the lengths the hardcore WOB'ers will goto to deny Wenger even the slightest bit of credit

"Aren't we 5 points down on last year from the same fixtures?"

Christ on a bike - listen to yourself. That little FACT that you've put the smiley face next to happens to be just that my friend - a FACT. Get your head around it, we need to make up those five points from somewhere else to get back level with a season where we finished 4th.

For the record, even his harshest critics including me have given him credit for individual matches where its merited. I said on the Napoli thread that the football was as good as anything I'd seen from us in years. After the Spurs game I praised the way we shut out their threat completely and there have been other games last season and this season too.....but I suppose you chose to ignore those posts yeah?

Another FACT is that 9 years without a trophy will be as piss poor as any Arsenal manager including managers who had far less resource at their disposal.

Its early October. If we were 8th you'd be saying 'judge him in May' and yet you're seemingly willing to pass judgement of him in October when we're top of the league ?

[DB10GOONER]

Amazing the lengths the hardcore WOB'ers will goto to deny Wenger even the slightest bit of credit

"Aren't we 5 points down on last year from the same fixtures?"

Christ on a bike - listen to yourself. That little FACT that you've put the smiley face next to happens to be just that my friend - a FACT. Get your head around it, we need to make up those five points from somewhere else to get back level with a season where we finished 4th.

For the record, even his harshest critics including me have given him credit for individual matches where its merited. I said on the Napoli thread that the football was as good as anything I'd seen from us in years. After the Spurs game I praised the way we shut out their threat completely and there have been other games last season and this season too.....but I suppose you chose to ignore those posts yeah?

Another FACT is that 9 years without a trophy will be as piss poor as any Arsenal manager including managers who had far less resource at their disposal.

Its early October. If we were 8th you'd be saying 'judge him in May' and yet you're seemingly willing to pass judgement of him in October when we're top of the league ?

Alot of what SteveO posts is shite ( ) but I absolutely 100% agree with this bit in red. We are in a (probably) temporary run of good form. That's great. The sickening thing is we all deep down know Arsene will throw this away by not doing what is needed in January - sign top players for when our current squad is decimated by injury, drop in form and/or fatigue. This happens every year and we are out of everything by Feb/March every year because of it. Whilst it is right to give Arsene credit for this current run it is also right to not let that run blind us to the bigger issues that have been issues since we fucked the PL away in 2008 because - you guessed it - our players were injured and tired and had dips in form and we had no one of real quality to take up the slack when it mattered the most. Form is temporary. class is permanent. We don't have enough class to win the PL.

[kiwomya]

Amazing the lengths the hardcore WOB'ers will goto to deny Wenger even the slightest bit of credit

"Aren't we 5 points down on last year from the same fixtures?"

Christ on a bike - listen to yourself. That little FACT that you've put the smiley face next to happens to be just that my friend - a FACT. Get your head around it, we need to make up those five points from somewhere else to get back level with a season where we finished 4th.

For the record, even his harshest critics including me have given him credit for individual matches where its merited. I said on the Napoli thread that the football was as good as anything I'd seen from us in years. After the Spurs game I praised the way we shut out their threat completely and there have been other games last season and this season too.....but I suppose you chose to ignore those posts yeah?

Another FACT is that 9 years without a trophy will be as piss poor as any Arsenal manager including managers who had far less resource at their disposal.

Its early October. If we were 8th you'd be saying 'judge him in May' and yet you're seemingly willing to pass judgement of him in October when we're top of the league ?

Alot of what SteveO posts is shite ( ) but I absolutely 100% agree with this bit in red. We are in a (probably) temporary run of good form. That's great. The sickening thing is we all deep down know Arsene will throw this away by not doing what is needed in January - sign top players for when our current squad is decimated by injury, drop in form and/or fatigue. This happens every year and we are out of everything by Feb/March every year because of it. Whilst it is right to give Arsene credit for this current run it is also right to not let that run blind us to the bigger issues that have been issues since we fucked the PL away in 2008 because - you guessed it - our players were injured and tired and had dips in form and we had no one of real quality to take up the slack when it mattered the most. Form is temporary. class is permanent. We don't have enough class to win the PL.

If that were based purely on the starting eleven/squad at the moment and had nothing else to offer then I would agree. The fact that we are where we are and still have Cazorla, Podolski, Ox and Walcott to come back is massively encouraging. In previous seasons we would have already been buried with those injuries. Progress?

[goonertux]

The four players you mention to come back, all play in midfield, or just off Giroud. I think the worrying concern for most is cover in goal and at the back. It will be a disgrace if and when we fall away because our only good'ish keeper and a couple of defenders are out long term.

[DB10GOONER]

The four players you mention to come back, all play in midfield, or just off Giroud. I think the worrying concern for most is cover in goal and at the back. It will be a disgrace if and when we fall away because our only good'ish keeper and a couple of defenders are out long term.

This ^^.

We have loads of midfielders. We badly need a top keeper, a top quality CH and a top quality striker. Giroud has done very well in his first year and a bit but he is not top top quality, and if he gets crocked (and given that he is a physical player and gets in there, he probably will get crocked) we are then relying on the Fat Drunk and/or moving the inconsistant Feo in as striker...?

[arseofacrow]

The four players you mention to come back, all play in midfield, or just off Giroud. I think the worrying concern for most is cover in goal and at the back. It will be a disgrace if and when we fall away because our only good'ish keeper and a couple of defenders are out long term.

This ^^.

We have loads of midfielders. We badly need a top keeper, a top quality CH and a top quality striker. Giroud has done very well in his first year and a bit but he is not top top quality, and if he gets crocked (and given that he is a physical player and gets in there, he probably will get crocked) we are then relying on the Fat Drunk and/or moving the inconsistant Feo in as striker...?

Wenger's gone for the Barcelona/West Ham model.

[officepest]

The four players you mention to come back, all play in midfield, or just off Giroud. I think the worrying concern for most is cover in goal and at the back. It will be a disgrace if and when we fall away because our only good'ish keeper and a couple of defenders are out long term.

Not a surprise though.......

[spike241]

Get your head around it, we need to make up those five points from somewhere else to get back level with a season where we finished 4th.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy we're top, it's nice. I don't think we'll be there at the end of the season but obviously I'd love it we were.

However, I have to disagree with that quote.
Mathematically, it might be correct but we can't judge the success of our season on points, especially in a season when all the top teams are playing shit and dropping points!

It should be judged on league position (end of the season, not current) and trophies.
All we can do is wait for January.

[Steve_I]

It is interesting to see the subtle (in some cases not so subtle perhaps, some might say) change in mood across the goonerverse. Even here in one of, if not the, darkest corner of doubt and cynicism. It's understandable too, I think, given recent form, but I do agree with those who oppose my 'core' view, that our recent form is but that, a relatively short spell of good form and good results.

I, of course, am bound to say that this form is to be expected as I have always felt that we have not had a disastrous 8+years and continue to say not "judge him in may" but "judge him/his successor in 9 years".

I believe it is fact that (as much as many here won't want to hear it) Arsene will be staying and I am ecstatic that he will be. I also believe that he will rightly have a say in who might replace him and the principles the club are following will continue.

It is because of the way things have been managed that we are the richest 'cash rich' club and are, by a long stretch, the club with the best chance of longevity in terms of being 'up there'. As I get older I become more aware of how quickly time goes by and it has certainly flown over the last 9 years and will do over the next 9 and I remain 100% confident that in those 9 years I will be following an Arsenal team that has collected more trophies and remains one of the best teams in the league and, indeed, in Europe.

This current squad will win things and will do so in large part because of Arsene. That is something history will show when I look back.

[Chippy]

It is interesting to see the subtle (in some cases not so subtle perhaps, some might say) change in mood across the goonerverse. Even here in one of, if not the, darkest corner of doubt and cynicism. It's understandable too, I think, given recent form, but I do agree with those who oppose my 'core' view, that our recent form is but that, a relatively short spell of good form and good results.

I, of course, am bound to say that this form is to be expected as I have always felt that we have not had a disastrous 8+years and continue to say not "judge him in may" but "judge him/his successor in 9 years".

I believe it is fact that (as much as many here won't want to hear it) Arsene will be staying and I am ecstatic that he will be. I also believe that he will rightly have a say in who might replace him and the principles the club are following will continue.

It is because of the way things have been managed that we are the richest 'cash rich' club and are, by a long stretch, the club with the best chance of longevity in terms of being 'up there'. As I get older I become more aware of how quickly time goes by and it has certainly flown over the last 9 years and will do over the next 9 and I remain 100% confident that in those 9 years I will be following an Arsenal team that has collected more trophies and remains one of the best teams in the league and, indeed, in Europe.

This current squad will win things and will do so in large part because of Arsene. That is something history will show when I look back.

Could you by any chance give a few reasons why you think we will win trophies when we haven't for 9 years? Other than blind faith of course.

[SteveO 35]

It is interesting to see the subtle (in some cases not so subtle perhaps, some might say) change in mood across the goonerverse. Even here in one of, if not the, darkest corner of doubt and cynicism. It's understandable too, I think, given recent form, but I do agree with those who oppose my 'core' view, that our recent form is but that, a relatively short spell of good form and good results.

I, of course, am bound to say that this form is to be expected as I have always felt that we have not had a disastrous 8+years and continue to say not "judge him in may" but "judge him/his successor in 9 years".

I believe it is fact that (as much as many here won't want to hear it) Arsene will be staying and I am ecstatic that he will be. I also believe that he will rightly have a say in who might replace him and the principles the club are following will continue.

It is because of the way things have been managed that we are the richest 'cash rich' club and are, by a long stretch, the club with the best chance of longevity in terms of being 'up there'. As I get older I become more aware of how quickly time goes by and it has certainly flown over the last 9 years and will do over the next 9 and I remain 100% confident that in those 9 years I will be following an Arsenal team that has collected more trophies and remains one of the best teams in the league and, indeed, in Europe.

This current squad will win things and will do so in large part because of Arsene. That is something history will show when I look back.

We need fans that are confident of success because otherwise the stadium would be full of miserable glass half empty fans like me

Steve - being cash rich is not something to be proud of in isolation. Having invested in companies that are 'cash rich', the criticism from shareholders comes very quickly when the cash is not reinvested in the core business. Who wants cash in the bank when it earns interest at the lowest rate in the 300+ year history of the Bank of England? If you'd a spare million to invest kicking around would you leave it sitting in a high street account?

In the very early years after we moved and the economy changed there was a case to be made for prudence, as the net debt position merited it, but quite frankly the net debt has been negligible relative to our cash generation for the past 2-3 years so that argument will not wash with me going forward. We also have the added firepower of new commercial deals from next year so we will see if Wenger is the forward looking manager his followers claim he is, or as I suspect the over principled guy ill equipped to manage in an era where the financial dynamics of a major football club have significantly changed and where a greater level of investment is required to compete for the biggest prizes

[augie]

It is interesting to see the subtle (in some cases not so subtle perhaps, some might say) change in mood across the goonerverse. Even here in one of, if not the, darkest corner of doubt and cynicism. It's understandable too, I think, given recent form, but I do agree with those who oppose my 'core' view, that our recent form is but that, a relatively short spell of good form and good results.

I, of course, am bound to say that this form is to be expected as I have always felt that we have not had a disastrous 8+years and continue to say not "judge him in may" but "judge him/his successor in 9 years".

I believe it is fact that (as much as many here won't want to hear it) Arsene will be staying and I am ecstatic that he will be. I also believe that he will rightly have a say in who might replace him and the principles the club are following will continue.

It is because of the way things have been managed that we are the richest 'cash rich' club and are, by a long stretch, the club with the best chance of longevity in terms of being 'up there'. As I get older I become more aware of how quickly time goes by and it has certainly flown over the last 9 years and will do over the next 9 and I remain 100% confident that in those 9 years I will be following an Arsenal team that has collected more trophies and remains one of the best teams in the league and, indeed, in Europe.

This current squad will win things and will do so in large part because of Arsene. That is something history will show when I look back.

Could you by any chance give a few reasons why you think we will win trophies when we haven't for 9 years? Other than blind faith of course.

Seriously chippy, I cannot believe that you are taking the bait on this part