As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Steve_I wrote:
Well, the truth is, when we win things over the next few years, he will be proving the majority correct (arsenal fanwise) and the minority wrong. Those of us for him remain solidly in the majority. FACT (as they say hereabout)
Blind faith/optimism isn't a fact fella
LOL, of course it is! certainly as much as pessimism and miserablegitness
As I've said many times, it's not blind faith to me, it's a natural progression and, over the next 9 years we will win things and it will be, in a major part, down to Arsene and what he has done for us. as folk will say.
Anyway, back to today, off for a couple pregame, then a holding bladder painfully scenario til half time... UTA
That's all well and good for you but you can't say WHEN we win things as though it's a given
And although us winning PL or CL under Wenger would prove a great many people to be massively wrong in their assessments (myself included), it wouldn't automatically vindicate the way we've gone about things since 2006. Whatever happens from now on, we've pissed away a number of years and not in the name of progression.
I can and have said that because I believe it to be true as much as some folk believe they can say 'he don't know tactics' 'he's a senile git' 'we have been shit for 8 years' ad nauseum.
I am reluctant to go round in circles as we will never agree, but I have maintained that we have not been pissing away a number of years, and feel a large part of the motivation for those who do say that is glory hunting and fickleness. Clearly folk here will get angry or beg to differ with me, but that is how I see it. We have maintained ourselves over a transition period and are still in a position to challenge and that is what I believe we will do over the next few years.
No doubt, when we do win thigns, folk will find things to say like "it's because he changed the way he does things, it's because he finally spent money, it's because he started 'doing tactics' [lol fcking lol here btw, that argument is utter bollocks the 'he don't do tactics one'] Much like Steve_O says 'xxxx won't happen' 'we will see the truth when we play####' I reserve the right to say we WILL win or 'WHEN' we win, and admit I got it wrong if ever I do... I won't tho' simples
Although obviously we hold differing views you've always seemed reasonable but this is ridiculous.
Saying he's shit at tactics is an opinion.
Saying we've been shit for 8 years is an opinion.
Suggesting he's been vindicated on the basis that you're guessing we're going to win something in the future is not an opinion, it's a prediction (and a pretty baseless one at that).
Chippy wrote:Don't you fcuking dare call me a glory hunter. I was a gooner while you were still in nappies I imagine! I am not fickle. I have held the same opinion for about 5 years now and today changed nothing. We don't tolerate super fans on here so wise up.
woah , whatever pal. I could just as easily reply in kind. I have an opinion and if you don't like it then it is not my problem but yours.
To my mind it is fickleness, and if it upsets you for me to say that then there is little I can do., but I reserve my right to state my opinion. I have NEVER been abusive here, as far as I can recall but if abuse from a mod , simply because I don't agree with the local 'line', is what I get then hey...
Sorry but calling me a glory hunter is abuse. I have supported the Arsenal (not Arsene) for about 50 years through thick and thin. I am not fickle (more abuse) as I have felt this way about Wenger since about 2008.
You can have your opinion but do not characterise my opinion in an insulting way implying you are a better gooner than me.
I didn't abuse you I told you not to to abuse me.
You swore at me and told me I was in nappies when you were supporting The Arsenal and called me a 'superfan' whatever that may be but from the tome i read into your post I assumed it was an insult as far as you were concerned other wise you would not have used that term.[the nappies bit is however probably true based on what you just said as I'm early 50s so was in nappies when you started I guess. Can't argue there]
I have never implied I am a better gooner but rather you inferred it. I think it is fickle to go against Arsene simply because I believe he is doing right and, therefore, from where I sit people went against him for the wrong reasons. clearly that is what the two sides of the bigger debate are, two polar opinions and I make my comments based on my views. I will argue no further because it's pointless. An I quite like it here, so I'll shut up
Chippy wrote:Don't you fcuking dare call me a glory hunter. I was a gooner while you were still in nappies I imagine! I am not fickle. I have held the same opinion for about 5 years now and today changed nothing. We don't tolerate super fans on here so wise up.
woah , whatever pal. I could just as easily reply in kind. I have an opinion and if you don't like it then it is not my problem but yours.
To my mind it is fickleness, and if it upsets you for me to say that then there is little I can do., but I reserve my right to state my opinion. I have NEVER been abusive here, as far as I can recall but if abuse from a mod , simply because I don't agree with the local 'line', is what I get then hey...
Sorry but calling me a glory hunter is abuse. I have supported the Arsenal (not Arsene) for about 50 years through thick and thin. I am not fickle (more abuse) as I have felt this way about Wenger since about 2008.
You can have your opinion but do not characterise my opinion in an insulting way implying you are a better gooner than me.
I didn't abuse you I told you not to to abuse me.
You swore at me and told me I was in nappies when you were supporting The Arsenal and called me a 'superfan' whatever that may be but from the tome i read into your post I assumed it was an insult as far as you were concerned other wise you would not have used that term.[the nappies bit is however probably true based on what you just said as I'm early 50s so was in nappies when you started I guess. Can't argue there]
I have never implied I am a better gooner but rather you inferred it. I think it is fickle to go against Arsene simply because I believe he is doing right and, therefore, from where I sit people went against him for the wrong reasons. clearly that is what the two sides of the bigger debate are, two polar opinions and I make my comments based on my views. I will argue no further because it's pointless. An I quite like it here, so I'll shut up
So its ok to call People AKBS on here and accuse them of being Arsene fans not Arsenal fans but its not ok to accuse people of being fickle and glory hunters
"we dont tolerate super fans on here so wise up"
Chippy have a think about it and then do the decent thing and apologise
Chippy wrote:Don't you fcuking dare call me a glory hunter. I was a gooner while you were still in nappies I imagine! I am not fickle. I have held the same opinion for about 5 years now and today changed nothing. We don't tolerate super fans on here so wise up.
woah , whatever pal. I could just as easily reply in kind. I have an opinion and if you don't like it then it is not my problem but yours.
To my mind it is fickleness, and if it upsets you for me to say that then there is little I can do., but I reserve my right to state my opinion. I have NEVER been abusive here, as far as I can recall but if abuse from a mod , simply because I don't agree with the local 'line', is what I get then hey...
Sorry but calling me a glory hunter is abuse. I have supported the Arsenal (not Arsene) for about 50 years through thick and thin. I am not fickle (more abuse) as I have felt this way about Wenger since about 2008.
You can have your opinion but do not characterise my opinion in an insulting way implying you are a better gooner than me.
I didn't abuse you I told you not to to abuse me.
You swore at me and told me I was in nappies when you were supporting The Arsenal and called me a 'superfan' whatever that may be but from the tome i read into your post I assumed it was an insult as far as you were concerned other wise you would not have used that term.[the nappies bit is however probably true based on what you just said as I'm early 50s so was in nappies when you started I guess. Can't argue there]
I have never implied I am a better gooner but rather you inferred it. I think it is fickle to go against Arsene simply because I believe he is doing right and, therefore, from where I sit people went against him for the wrong reasons. clearly that is what the two sides of the bigger debate are, two polar opinions and I make my comments based on my views. I will argue no further because it's pointless. An I quite like it here, so I'll shut up
So its ok to call People AKBS on here and accuse them of being Arsene fans not Arsenal fans but its not ok to accuse people of being fickle and glory hunters
"we dont tolerate super fans on here so wise up"
Chippy have a think about it and then do the decent thing and apologise
Calling someone who thinks Arsene Knows Best an AKB is not insulting in the same ways as calling someone from the Wenger Out Brigade a WOB is not. Calling someone who has been a gooner for 50+years a glory hunter is insulting. Calling someone who consistently says that Arsene is the problem and that Arsenal will not improve until he goes, fickle, shows a lack of understanding of the word fickle.
northbank123 wrote:
Although obviously we hold differing views you've always seemed reasonable but this is ridiculous.
Saying he's shit at tactics is an opinion.
Saying we've been shit for 8 years is an opinion.
Suggesting he's been vindicated on the basis that you're guessing we're going to win something in the future is not an opinion, it's a prediction (and a pretty baseless one at that).
I am not suggesting he is vindicated on the basis we will win something in the future. I am saying I beleive we will win something in the future and it will be because of him in the large part.
I am suggesting, as I always have, that he is vindicated for the last few years by achieving what we have achieved which is to still be up the top and in with a shout given our situation stadiumwise, financial approachwise and upagainstoliagarchoilmenwise. I believe that we have not had a 'disastrous' last few years but have had a stable period which is something that could not have been guaranteed with a n other at the helm. Yeah, it MAY have been, it MAY have even been more fruitful trophywise under Mr Other but that is by no means a certainty and, unfortunately/fortunately we will never know.
People can have an opinion on the furture surely? is it not semantics to argue opinion vs prediction in this respect? Saying 'we wont win anything while Arsene is at the helm' is therefore also a prediction rather than opinion then I guess? We argue/debate about what is ahead and what our current resources will do for us in the future don't we?
No difference for me ,calling me an Arsenal fan of how ever many years an Arsene fc fan above Arsenal fc fan is as bad as calling me fickle or a glory hunter
if you think that in that little exchange you never overstepped your position as a mod on here then fair enough
but I think you did
I hate these type of brain washed supporters who are generally 18-30 years old who know nothing but Arsene being Arsenal manager,as Chippy already stated these 'super fans' get right on my tits,my mates girlfriend is one,she thinks we would collapse if wenker left us,believe me CHANGE ISNT ALWAYS A BAD THING!!!when we don't win the league this year and scrape 4th ask yourself this,have you super fans ever seen Arsenal win a trophy cos Ive seen us win trophies since 1979 and believe it or not who'd ever heard of Arsole Wenker back then
markyp wrote:I hate these type of brain washed supporters who are generally 18-30 years old who know nothing but Arsene being Arsenal manager,as Chippy already stated these 'super fans' get right on my tits,my mates girlfriend is one,she thinks we would collapse if wenker left us,believe me CHANGE ISNT ALWAYS A BAD THING!!!when we don't win the league this year and scrape 4th ask yourself this,have you super fans ever seen Arsenal win a trophy cos Ive seen us win trophies since 1979 and believe it or not who'd ever heard of Arsole Wenker back then
Well, happy to answer if I am one of those 'superfans' you refer to?
northbank123 wrote:
Although obviously we hold differing views you've always seemed reasonable but this is ridiculous.
Saying he's shit at tactics is an opinion.
Saying we've been shit for 8 years is an opinion.
Suggesting he's been vindicated on the basis that you're guessing we're going to win something in the future is not an opinion, it's a prediction (and a pretty baseless one at that).
I am not suggesting he is vindicated on the basis we will win something in the future. I am saying I beleive we will win something in the future and it will be because of him in the large part.
I am suggesting, as I always have, that he is vindicated for the last few years by achieving what we have achieved which is to still be up the top and in with a shout given our situation stadiumwise, financial approachwise and upagainstoliagarchoilmenwise. I believe that we have not had a 'disastrous' last few years but have had a stable period which is something that could not have been guaranteed with a n other at the helm. Yeah, it MAY have been, it MAY have even been more fruitful trophywise under Mr Other but that is by no means a certainty and, unfortunately/fortunately we will never know.
People can have an opinion on the furture surely? is it not semantics to argue opinion vs prediction in this respect? Saying 'we wont win anything while Arsene is at the helm' is therefore also a prediction rather than opinion then I guess? We argue/debate about what is ahead and what our current resources will do for us in the future don't we?
Of course people can try and predict what's going to happen in the future, would be pretty boring otherwise. But your original post that I responded to said that it was a fact that he will prove people wrong when we win things - not a fact at all because there's far from any guarantees that we will - and you then defended calling it a fact because it's what you reckon will happen.
Nothing wrong with you making predictions or even basing your arguments on them but don't go round passing them off as fact is the point I was making.
Have to say I can't see a whole lot of difference between suggesting someone doesn't support arsenal if they support wenger and calling someone a glory hunter because they don't. Both are equally moronic IMO.
northbank123 wrote:
Of course people can try and predict what's going to happen in the future, would be pretty boring otherwise. But your original post that I responded to said that it was a fact that he will prove people wrong when we win things - not a fact at all because there's far from any guarantees that we will - and you then defended calling it a fact because it's what you reckon will happen.
Nothing wrong with you making predictions or even basing your arguments on them but don't go round passing them off as fact is the point I was making.
Fair comment although have to say the time I used the FACT thing at the end of a sentance (something I actually think is daft but have started using it more tongue in cheek than anything) it was at the end of a statement about the majority of fans being behind him and not relating to my statement that we will win things. that was a statement by me which clearly folk can choose to believe will or will not happen as the mood takes them.
If my opinions annoy or aggravate folk then I can but apologise but it won't change what I think which is, of course, that I remain firmly in the 'For' camp
LDB wrote:Have to say I can't see a whole lot of difference between suggesting someone doesn't support arsenal if they support wenger and calling someone a glory hunter because they don't. Both are equally moronic IMO.
