It's all a load of Cannonballs in here! This is the virtual Arsenal pub where you can chat about anything except football. Be warned though, like any pub, the content may not always be suitable for everyone.
A11M11 wrote:Purely tactical Pest , :- This was his plan "b" all along , If he lost he was going to resign causing a new Tory leader vote. After that he knows that there will be an election where parliament will take sides on Brexit or not . He is hoping that all the bad press that leave are getting will sway voters to remain and then the new government can decide to stay and he can toddle off to Brussels and get on the Euro gravy train with Kinnock , Mandelson and all the other failed politicians.
It is highly unlikely there will be a General Election before 2020.
officepest wrote:Cameron was too shit scared to simply tell his backbenchers to fuck off, so promises a in/out referendum which he probably didn’t think he’d have to hold as he didn’t expect to win a majority at the last election.
Then he ups and quits as soon as the result goes against him. What a spineless, cowardly Prime Minister history will show him to be. Gutless scumbag.
If memory serves me correctly then you are one of the guys on here that are very much in the leave Europe group - if I'm right, wouldn't you prefer a pm that also wants out of Europe ? I don't understand how people who voted to exit are now complaining about Cameron resigning, because he doesn't suit your agenda (and I don't mean agenda in a bad way) and certainly couldn't be trusted to be aggressive enough to push for what the leave campaign want.
It seems to me (and again I'm on the outside looking in) that the leave campaign are looking for a scapegoat if the shit hits the fan, then the finger will be pointed at Cameron for resigning at a crucial time
He has left a vacuum that gives Europe a time to plan whilst we get involved in domestic politics. I still maintain that he thinks the worm will turn if it takes long enough and I am sure he fancies an E.U position when the dust settles. I am not sure if it does go to election which I feel is quite possible that the leave campaign will have enough credible people to put forward and that there will be more remainers left in Parliament . That's his gamble and sadly I think he will win it.
officepest wrote:Cameron was too shit scared to simply tell his backbenchers to fuck off, so promises a in/out referendum which he probably didn’t think he’d have to hold as he didn’t expect to win a majority at the last election.
Then he ups and quits as soon as the result goes against him. What a spineless, cowardly Prime Minister history will show him to be. Gutless scumbag.
If memory serves me correctly then you are one of the guys on here that are very much in the leave Europe group - if I'm right, wouldn't you prefer a pm that also wants out of Europe ? I don't understand how people who voted to exit are now complaining about Cameron resigning, because he doesn't suit your agenda (and I don't mean agenda in a bad way) and certainly couldn't be trusted to be aggressive enough to push for what the leave campaign want.
It seems to me (and again I'm on the outside looking in) that the leave campaign are looking for a scapegoat if the shit hits the fan, then the finger will be pointed at Cameron for resigning at a crucial time
Doesn't need a Brexit PM as long as it's somebody who is fully committed to negotiating an exit.
Theresa May is by far the best negotiator we have in my opinion.
I see that rumours are out that a lot of Teresa May's supporters are to cast their first round votes for Andrea Leadsom so that Gove doesn't get through in a straight fight with May. But that's the back stabbing way our system works.
Herd wrote:Back to the referendum ,it strikes me that it is most likely thaqt Theresa May will get in and she is unlikely to allow Brexit to happen !
Even if she does she will then enter into a rush of trade agreements which will mean the end of democracy in the uk forever .
Far worse than the EU far worse than anything you have EVER seen is TTIP !
It will change the world forever !
The TTIP will ruin the EU as it will uphold USA position of global economic power. The USA already sewn up the pacific countries in the TPP. I kept mentioning this but very few listened as they didn't know about the TTIP. Just got called a racist by ignorant people.
The "ghost" soldiers that were all around the country today as a tribute to the 19,000 that lost their lives at the Somme 100 years ago, shouldve gone round slapping the 18-25 who are crying about the referendum result.
nut flush gooner wrote:I have voted conservative pretty much all of my adult life, and voted for Boris to be mayor of london.
Quite a funny character, his "bungling idiot" approach is quite endearing. BUT, if he is responsible for us leaving the EU, the loss of thousands of jobs a weaker currency (sterling has fallen through the floor today because of the Boris effect) and he makes it to be the next leader of the Conservatives, I will abstain at the next General Election.
There are arguments for leaving the EU but our relationship with India, China and the US is crucial for the future of this country. If the consequence of leaving the EU is losing investment from all these nations then IMO it just isn't worth it. I have worked for companies that offer services to inward investing overseas firms, and have seen all of these countries set up satellite operations in the UK creating hundreds if not thousands of skilled well paid jobs over the last decade. One US firm alone went from employing 3 employees in 2004 to 200 plus today. That's just my personal experience and it's before you even start looking at large ftse 100 companies who have said they will relocate jobs if we leave the EU.
I was under the impression that our economic relationships with India, China and USA would continue with or without us being in the EU, in fact being out we could improve and have more direct manufacturing contracts with the big 2 and possibly with India. We do not need the EU to have economic trade with the three most important economic countries in the world. Germany appears to be on its way to tanking economically.
I would suggest that the referendum has been brought forward to facilitate a new prime minister. An exit will see boris installed as PM as Cameron steps down, a stay vote will see George Osbourne in charge. I don't think Cameron will see out the full term, he didn't look too motivated during the election and he doesn't appear to want the job anymore. It is no accident that nearly all economic policies set by this government have a timeline to commence in 2020...the year of the next election. Also, as explained by Cameron on the announcement of the referendum, the exit will take 2 years, which gives the current government 2 years to implement a strategy to gain re-election in 2020. If anyone believes they are doing this for the benefit of the everyday people in this nation, think again...it's all about the conservatives staying in power. They've learnt from the error they made with letting Maggie stay in charge for 11 years. A new political party is needed, UKIP had the best manifesto for a modern day Britain, it is unfortunate that they didn't talk about it, just kept banging on about illegal immigrants. If they rebranded themselves by changing their name they would be a major contender for government at the next election.
Ok let me explain the issues with your theory. Firstly, Indian and Chinese firms when they want to do business in Europe usually set up a satellite operation for which to sell their wares if you like to the rest of Europe. It's just totally inefficient and expensive to do this in every country.
The country of choice certainly for India given the cultural/language and historical ties is the UK less so for China. You would think that the US would naturally pick the UK as a point of access to do business in Europe, but they have already said the impact us leaving will have. Therefore, its not unreasonable to accept that we will lose out on trading contracts and ultimately jobs that would have been created in the UK.
Now given what I have already said, if we are outside the EU trade will become much more complicated. We have already discussed on this thread the time it takes to set up trade agreements and I am sure that a lot of the EU countries who noses will be put out of joint by Brexit will not be as accommodating as you would think.
UKIP where a shambles in the election, they didn't get the seats they thought they did and their leader stepped down and changed his mind! The one and only MP launched a stinging attack on Farage. Is this really a credible alternative, somehow I don't think so and so did a lot of the Tory vote.
Cameron will be in number 10 after the referendum, what makes you think he is disinterested? He worked his nuts off over getting a deal that he could take to Parliament. The only person whose playing politics is Boris Johnson.
Nut flash I'd be interested in your opinion now. I called it right with Cameron. As you are a conservative what are your thoughts now?
nut flush gooner wrote:I have voted conservative pretty much all of my adult life, and voted for Boris to be mayor of london.
Quite a funny character, his "bungling idiot" approach is quite endearing. BUT, if he is responsible for us leaving the EU, the loss of thousands of jobs a weaker currency (sterling has fallen through the floor today because of the Boris effect) and he makes it to be the next leader of the Conservatives, I will abstain at the next General Election.
There are arguments for leaving the EU but our relationship with India, China and the US is crucial for the future of this country. If the consequence of leaving the EU is losing investment from all these nations then IMO it just isn't worth it. I have worked for companies that offer services to inward investing overseas firms, and have seen all of these countries set up satellite operations in the UK creating hundreds if not thousands of skilled well paid jobs over the last decade. One US firm alone went from employing 3 employees in 2004 to 200 plus today. That's just my personal experience and it's before you even start looking at large ftse 100 companies who have said they will relocate jobs if we leave the EU.
I was under the impression that our economic relationships with India, China and USA would continue with or without us being in the EU, in fact being out we could improve and have more direct manufacturing contracts with the big 2 and possibly with India. We do not need the EU to have economic trade with the three most important economic countries in the world. Germany appears to be on its way to tanking economically.
I would suggest that the referendum has been brought forward to facilitate a new prime minister. An exit will see boris installed as PM as Cameron steps down, a stay vote will see George Osbourne in charge. I don't think Cameron will see out the full term, he didn't look too motivated during the election and he doesn't appear to want the job anymore. It is no accident that nearly all economic policies set by this government have a timeline to commence in 2020...the year of the next election. Also, as explained by Cameron on the announcement of the referendum, the exit will take 2 years, which gives the current government 2 years to implement a strategy to gain re-election in 2020. If anyone believes they are doing this for the benefit of the everyday people in this nation, think again...it's all about the conservatives staying in power. They've learnt from the error they made with letting Maggie stay in charge for 11 years. A new political party is needed, UKIP had the best manifesto for a modern day Britain, it is unfortunate that they didn't talk about it, just kept banging on about illegal immigrants. If they rebranded themselves by changing their name they would be a major contender for government at the next election.
Ok let me explain the issues with your theory. Firstly, Indian and Chinese firms when they want to do business in Europe usually set up a satellite operation for which to sell their wares if you like to the rest of Europe. It's just totally inefficient and expensive to do this in every country.
The country of choice certainly for India given the cultural/language and historical ties is the UK less so for China. You would think that the US would naturally pick the UK as a point of access to do business in Europe, but they have already said the impact us leaving will have. Therefore, its not unreasonable to accept that we will lose out on trading contracts and ultimately jobs that would have been created in the UK.
Now given what I have already said, if we are outside the EU trade will become much more complicated. We have already discussed on this thread the time it takes to set up trade agreements and I am sure that a lot of the EU countries who noses will be put out of joint by Brexit will not be as accommodating as you would think.
UKIP where a shambles in the election, they didn't get the seats they thought they did and their leader stepped down and changed his mind! The one and only MP launched a stinging attack on Farage. Is this really a credible alternative, somehow I don't think so and so did a lot of the Tory vote.
Cameron will be in number 10 after the referendum, what makes you think he is disinterested? He worked his nuts off over getting a deal that he could take to Parliament. The only person whose playing politics is Boris Johnson.
Nut flash I'd be interested in your opinion now. I called it right with Cameron. As you are a conservative what are your thoughts now?
I am gutted that Cameron resigned tbh, and in despair over what has happened to the Conservatives. I guess the only thing that softens the blow is Labour are actually in a worst predicament.
Perhaps in hindsight the only outcome for Cameron was to fall on his sword, he would never be committed to implement article 50. I really can't see Gove winning the leadership election. What a twat he is going on national TV saying he wasn't interested in being PM then less than 2 weeks saying he is a reluctant candidate, having stabbed his mate Boris in the back. I won't vote for the Conservatives if he is PM but I certainly won't vote labour.
It's pretty scary what the referendum has done to this country, there have been lot's of accounts of racist behaviour even one of my Asian mates was subjected to abuse in Central London. I mean ffs you might understand it up north, but Central London one of the most cosmopolitan areas in the country. We've even seen examples of it on this forum.
Herd wrote:Back to the referendum ,it strikes me that it is most likely thaqt Theresa May will get in and she is unlikely to allow Brexit to happen !
Even if she does she will then enter into a rush of trade agreements which will mean the end of democracy in the uk forever .
Far worse than the EU far worse than anything you have EVER seen is TTIP !
It will change the world forever !
The TTIP will ruin the EU as it will uphold USA position of global economic power. The USA already sewn up the pacific countries in the TPP. I kept mentioning this but very few listened as they didn't know about the TTIP. Just got called a racist by ignorant people.
The "ghost" soldiers that were all around the country today as a tribute to the 19,000 that lost their lives at the Somme 100 years ago, shouldve gone round slapping the 18-25 who are crying about the referendum result.
So as you are an expert on TTIP can you explain what it is and why it is bad? Also the relationship between TTIP and WWI please.
Herd wrote:Back to the referendum ,it strikes me that it is most likely thaqt Theresa May will get in and she is unlikely to allow Brexit to happen !
Even if she does she will then enter into a rush of trade agreements which will mean the end of democracy in the uk forever .
Far worse than the EU far worse than anything you have EVER seen is TTIP !
It will change the world forever !
The TTIP will ruin the EU as it will uphold USA position of global economic power. The USA already sewn up the pacific countries in the TPP. I kept mentioning this but very few listened as they didn't know about the TTIP. Just got called a racist by ignorant people.
The "ghost" soldiers that were all around the country today as a tribute to the 19,000 that lost their lives at the Somme 100 years ago, shouldve gone round slapping the 18-25 who are crying about the referendum result.
So as you are an expert on TTIP can you explain what it is and why it is bad? Also the relationship between TTIP and WWI please.
Herd wrote:Back to the referendum ,it strikes me that it is most likely thaqt Theresa May will get in and she is unlikely to allow Brexit to happen !
Even if she does she will then enter into a rush of trade agreements which will mean the end of democracy in the uk forever .
Far worse than the EU far worse than anything you have EVER seen is TTIP !
It will change the world forever !
The TTIP will ruin the EU as it will uphold USA position of global economic power. The USA already sewn up the pacific countries in the TPP. I kept mentioning this but very few listened as they didn't know about the TTIP. Just got called a racist by ignorant people.
The "ghost" soldiers that were all around the country today as a tribute to the 19,000 that lost their lives at the Somme 100 years ago, shouldve gone round slapping the 18-25 who are crying about the referendum result.
So as you are an expert on TTIP can you explain what it is and why it is bad? Also the relationship between TTIP and WWI please.
The Independent article explains it better then I could.
There isn't a link between TTIP or WW1.
LOL too lazy to interpret your own understanding of TTIP (in other words you don't understand it) so instead refer to an article read in the media.
I guess the Independent isn't owned by murdoch, which is something. By the way TTIP does have positives too, it's a shame that journalists focus on the negatives but that doesn't sell newspapers does it. The reason TTIP hasn't been ratified is because the Europeans are not happy with certain terms. If we start to negotiate with the US for a trade deal you can be sure it will be similar to the one that is ongoing with the EU, by my recogning it's taken 4 years to get nowhere near ratifying a treaty. God knows how long it will take us to sort one out,
Herd wrote:Back to the referendum ,it strikes me that it is most likely thaqt Theresa May will get in and she is unlikely to allow Brexit to happen !
Even if she does she will then enter into a rush of trade agreements which will mean the end of democracy in the uk forever .
Far worse than the EU far worse than anything you have EVER seen is TTIP !
It will change the world forever !
The TTIP will ruin the EU as it will uphold USA position of global economic power. The USA already sewn up the pacific countries in the TPP. I kept mentioning this but very few listened as they didn't know about the TTIP. Just got called a racist by ignorant people.
The "ghost" soldiers that were all around the country today as a tribute to the 19,000 that lost their lives at the Somme 100 years ago, shouldve gone round slapping the 18-25 who are crying about the referendum result.
So as you are an expert on TTIP can you explain what it is and why it is bad? Also the relationship between TTIP and WWI please.
The Independent article explains it better then I could.
There isn't a link between TTIP or WW1.
LOL too lazy to interpret your own understanding of TTIP (in other words you don't understand it) so instead refer to an article read in the media.
I guess the Independent isn't owned by murdoch, which is something. By the way TTIP does have positives too, it's a shame that journalists focus on the negatives but that doesn't sell newspapers does it. The reason TTIP hasn't been ratified is because the Europeans are not happy with certain terms. If we start to negotiate with the US for a trade deal you can be sure it will be similar to the one that is ongoing with the EU, by my recogning it's taken 4 years to get nowhere near ratifying a treaty. God knows how long it will take us to sort one out,
Didn't realise this discussion was a marked assignment.
In a nutshell USA wants to deal with one political body rather than 27 different ones, gaining from 27 nations while the EU has to share the benefits from one nation between its member states. Being out we can discuss on a one to one basis without considering the needs of 27 other governments.
On Gove it seems he's playing the honest, quiet politician, not the personality media hunting politician. It's an interesting position as modern politics is as much about the personality of the leader as it is about the politics.
officepest wrote:Cameron was too shit scared to simply tell his backbenchers to fuck off, so promises a in/out referendum which he probably didn’t think he’d have to hold as he didn’t expect to win a majority at the last election.
Then he ups and quits as soon as the result goes against him. What a spineless, cowardly Prime Minister history will show him to be. Gutless scumbag.
If memory serves me correctly then you are one of the guys on here that are very much in the leave Europe group - if I'm right, wouldn't you prefer a pm that also wants out of Europe ? I don't understand how people who voted to exit are now complaining about Cameron resigning, because he doesn't suit your agenda (and I don't mean agenda in a bad way) and certainly couldn't be trusted to be aggressive enough to push for what the leave campaign want.
It seems to me (and again I'm on the outside looking in) that the leave campaign are looking for a scapegoat if the shit hits the fan, then the finger will be pointed at Cameron for resigning at a crucial time
I was for leaving until about a week before the vote. I have many, many problems with the EU, however:
I figured that if we left it would precipitate the break-up of the UK, and thus leave those of us stuck in England with a de facto one-party system until Labour decapitates the dreadful latter-day communist Corbyn (and the even more odious McDonell) cabal.
Whether one votes for the blue twats or the red twats, we need a credible opposition to hold the Govt. to account, and the chaos that is to come worries me greatly. As for Cameron; he didn’t need to offer a referendum, but to do so and then slunk off leaving the country with a rudderless administration is unbelievable.
officepest wrote:Cameron was too shit scared to simply tell his backbenchers to fuck off, so promises a in/out referendum which he probably didn’t think he’d have to hold as he didn’t expect to win a majority at the last election.
Then he ups and quits as soon as the result goes against him. What a spineless, cowardly Prime Minister history will show him to be. Gutless scumbag.
If memory serves me correctly then you are one of the guys on here that are very much in the leave Europe group - if I'm right, wouldn't you prefer a pm that also wants out of Europe ? I don't understand how people who voted to exit are now complaining about Cameron resigning, because he doesn't suit your agenda (and I don't mean agenda in a bad way) and certainly couldn't be trusted to be aggressive enough to push for what the leave campaign want.
It seems to me (and again I'm on the outside looking in) that the leave campaign are looking for a scapegoat if the shit hits the fan, then the finger will be pointed at Cameron for resigning at a crucial time
I was for leaving until about a week before the vote. I have many, many problems with the EU, however:
I figured that if we left it would precipitate the break-up of the UK, and thus leave those of us stuck in England with a de facto one-party system until Labour decapitates the dreadful latter-day communist Corbyn (and the even more odious McDonell) cabal.
Whether one votes for the blue twats or the red twats, we need a credible opposition to hold the Govt. to account, and the chaos that is to come worries me greatly. As for Cameron; he didn’t need to offer a referendum, but to do so and then slunk off leaving the country with a rudderless administration is unbelievable.
if scotland fuck off and god willing they do england will be conservative regardless of who is labour leader.
t
