THE WENGER THREAD

[GranadaJoe]

I think that this transfer window will be the acid test of whether AW is as myopic as ever or whether some light has finally penetrated his stubborn mind.
As the above posters have said, we are normally so far adrift come Christmas that signing Jesus wouldn't have rescued us. However, this year we're top of the league, more solid at the back, have got proper DMs and fantastic midfield options, players to return from injury (please Santa!!) and we should be a very attractive option for any potential signings. Yet we're still an injury to Giroud away from a crisis.
If AW gets us a top alternative I'll start to give him a bit of credit. If not, when we've such a fantastic opportunity to win some proper silverware, I'll never forgive him.

[TurnipMasher]

I genuinely believe, based on what I'm seeing with my own eyes, that we've progressed from previous seasons. That may or may not be supported by league position (or trophies) at the end of the season but I'm more than happy to say 2013 has been a year of progress for Arsenal. Beats the shit out of 2011 and 2012 for me.

100% agree with this, even if we finish 4th again at least we've shown some fight this season.

But I still want Wenger out.

Hardly. We're certainly looking a lot better this year and although I don't see us winning the league because of our lack of options up front and apparent inferiority complex against the big teams we're certainly showing signs of progress - although this will ultimately have to be measured over the course of a whole season.

Last two seasons we've been 10+ points off the leaders at this stage who have eventually gone on to amass 89 points. This year we're the ones clear at the top and it certainly doesn't seem like anyone is going to be troubling 90 points. Given that playing well for part of the season has never been a problem for us would capitulating from here to finish 4th (especially considering Spurs are even more cack than usual) really show any fight?

Given our lack of squad depth, the most likely reason we will fall away would be due to injury/burnout to key players, but that doesn't change how much better we've played this season compared to last.

[northbank123]

I genuinely believe, based on what I'm seeing with my own eyes, that we've progressed from previous seasons. That may or may not be supported by league position (or trophies) at the end of the season but I'm more than happy to say 2013 has been a year of progress for Arsenal. Beats the shit out of 2011 and 2012 for me.

100% agree with this, even if we finish 4th again at least we've shown some fight this season.

But I still want Wenger out.

Hardly. We're certainly looking a lot better this year and although I don't see us winning the league because of our lack of options up front and apparent inferiority complex against the big teams we're certainly showing signs of progress - although this will ultimately have to be measured over the course of a whole season.

Last two seasons we've been 10+ points off the leaders at this stage who have eventually gone on to amass 89 points. This year we're the ones clear at the top and it certainly doesn't seem like anyone is going to be troubling 90 points. Given that playing well for part of the season has never been a problem for us would capitulating from here to finish 4th (especially considering Spurs are even more cack than usual) really show any fight?

Given our lack of squad depth, the most likely reason we will fall away would be due to injury/burnout to key players, but that doesn't change how much better we've played this season compared to last.

Yeah but to blow it to finish 4th how poorly are we going to have to play for the rest of the season considering the state of the other teams challenging?

Playing well for the first third of the season before capitulating to 4th imo shows even less fight than playing dreadfully for half the season before a strong final third to finish 4th.

[armchair]

Have to laugh at those who criticise us for having views that have taken us years to form. Now all of a sudden we should think differently? We have struggled with these demons for a long time.

Surely views should be flexible, especially with something so fast-moving as modern football? I have no problems saying I'm much more positive about the club and the manager then I was 12 months ago. We've found a formula that works, the players are battling for each other and the manager and coaches seem to be getting the best out of them. We've removed lots of complacent non-performers from the dressing room and brought in world class talent.

I've always said that no matter how much I criticise Wenger that if he starts getting it right again I'll hold my hands up and say it. It seems churlish in the extreme to spend years demanding the manager do this and do that and then when he does it you're just going to grumble and groan and wait for it all to go wrong because it "took you years" to form those views. We had 5 rank average seasons, sorry to be dismissive but when we have fans talking of "terminal demoralisation" you can only laugh.

Having said all that, as things stand we're still an injury to Giroud or Mertesacker away from being deep in the shit. Giroud we can potentially sign a back-up for but the Mert is irreplaceable in the team, time to pray.

Ha ha. Now were "churlish" for wanting Wenger out.
He should be gone for what he has already done and failed to do.
The fact that only recently has he decided to address some of the glaring deficiencies (not all of them by any means) in the team only re-enforces my opinion that he should be gone. Booing, fights in the stands, falling season ticket up-take, media pressure, board rumblings and public fall-outs with staff have pressured Wenger into backtracking from his "project"
Im not one of those who flip-flop every six months between wanting him out and keeping him. The damage has been done. The trophys/points have been thrown away already. Its too late now for me.

And for all of you who continually say that those of us who want Wenger gone dont , wont or cant see the "progress" of this season. Well I see it. there is a different feel about the place. We are stronger defensively. (We said that laast season too for a while. Didn't get us too far, did it?)

I can give Wenger credit for sticking with Ramsey when lots were slating him (Even if he did stick him out on the wing, he still stuck with him while he was playing, well poorly). Chesney too looks like he has potential to be world class.

But I wont forgive him for making 4th place a trophy. Dumbing down expectations, Sacrificing possible trophys for 4th place. Fan insults, 8-2, Gervinho, Almunia, Squillachi, Park etc etc

The damage has already been done. I cant now turn around and flakily say "oh ok then Ive changed my mind because we look better after 4 months of a season, I want Wenger to stay now" even though I ve wanted him gone for 5 years

[LDB]

Ha ha. Now were "churlish" for wanting Wenger out.
He should be gone for what he has already done and failed to do.
The fact that only recently has he decided to address some of the glaring deficiencies (not all of them by any means) in the team only re-enforces my opinion that he should be gone. Booing, fights in the stands, falling season ticket up-take, media pressure, board rumblings and public fall-outs with staff have pressured Wenger into backtracking from his "project"

Wenger bears no responsibility for supposedly fully grown adults fighting in the stands. As for the rest, sure there was pressure on him but surely the fact that he responded to it is a positive thing?

Im not one of those who flip-flop every six months between wanting him out and keeping him. The damage has been done. The trophys/points have been thrown away already. Its too late now for me.

I don't understand your mentality one bit, why focus so much on things that have already been and gone and can't be changed? I suppose if by some miracle we do win the league this season you'll be grumbling in the corner that we were average 2 years ago?

And for all of you who continually say that those of us who want Wenger gone dont , wont or cant see the "progress" of this season. Well I see it. there is a different feel about the place. We are stronger defensively. (We said that laast season too for a while. Didn't get us too far, did it?)

In fairness we were strong defensively in the second half of last season and it carried us to 4th place ahead of sperz. My concern was that we wouldn't carry those standards over into the new season as we always seem to start seasons thinking we're some kind of harlem globetrotting XI but encouragingly that hasn't been the case this season.

I can give Wenger credit for sticking with Ramsey when lots were slating him (Even if he did stick him out on the wing, he still stuck with him while he was playing, well poorly). Chesney too looks like he has potential to be world class.

I don't understand this criticism of Wenger putting Ramsey on the wing, he has had some good games on the wing for us. I remember him having a particularly good game away at City last season. He was then back in the centre of midfield for much of the run in last season as he began to find the form needed to play there. By putting him on the wing it kept him in the team when he wasn't playing well enough to be put in the middle.

[brazilianGOONER]

good post and good answers ldb.

we've heard time and time again from arsene as well that playing central midfielders in the wing teaches them how to deal with less space, and how it helped both wilshere and ramsey become the players they are now. hard to say how much of that is true, but it's hard to argue with both these players' ability in tight spaces.

didn't seem to work with bendtner though

[armchair]

Wenger bears absolute responsibility for dividing the fans and having them fight amongst themselves in the stands.

He also bears absolute responsibility for things that have come and gone,. Year after year, season after season. This is why so many want him gon. The continual lowering of expectations and throwing away possible trophys/points and capitulation year after year

Try reading my posts too. I was praising Wenger for sticking with Rambo. Not criticising him.

Strange this defense of Wenger from those who voted that he should not be given a new contract in the poll.........

[LDB]

good post and good answers ldb.

we've heard time and time again from arsene as well that playing central midfielders in the wing teaches them how to deal with less space, and how it helped both wilshere and ramsey become the players they are now. hard to say how much of that is true, but it's hard to argue with both these players' ability in tight spaces.

didn't seem to work with bendtner though

The thing about Ramsey too is that he is a very mobile and athletic player which are useful attributes for playing out wide in the modern game. My only concern for Wilshere is whether he has the engine to get up and down the wing in games where we can't keep most of the play in the opposition half. Bendtner's best position is lying in a back alley covered in his own vomit

This season though only Giroud has a (most of the time) fixed position in our front 4. Danny Murphy did a decent bit of analysis on it on Motd last night. Even Giroud floats around though, as we saw for Ramsey and Flamini popping up in the centre foward position for the goals yesterday.

[northbank123]

LDB do you really not understand the criticism of putting him on the wing?

If he's not playing well enough to get in at CM start of last season (bearing in mind Rosicky and Wilshere injured, no Flamini or Ozil then) then I don't think it benefited him or the team to farm him out to the wing. Yes he was great against Citeh but ineffective other than that, I don't see that it helped his development at all.

[LDB]

Wenger bears absolute responsibility for dividing the fans and having them fight amongst themselves in the stands.

Oh please, people who are moronic enough to fight each other in the stands can take responsibility for their own embarrassing actions.

[brazilianGOONER]

Wenger bears absolute responsibility for dividing the fans and having them fight amongst themselves in the stands.

you're kidding, right?

i mean, he's responsible for the average team that was on the pitch, but being responsible for some idiots actually punching each other because they have different opinions regarding the game of football?

[brazilianGOONER]

The thing about Ramsey too is that he is a very mobile and athletic player which are useful attributes for playing out wide in the modern game.

yeah, let's say he's slightly mobile allright:


agree with your comment on us always switching positions as well. every midfielder from rambo, santi, wilshere, ozil, or rosicky when he plays, all of them seem to switch positions all the time, from the right to the left to the middle, all the time. that and the quick passing, we're not as obvious to man mark as we were a year and a half ago.

[LDB]

LDB do you really not understand the criticism of putting him on the wing?

If he's not playing well enough to get in at CM start of last season (bearing in mind Rosicky and Wilshere injured, no Flamini or Ozil then) then I don't think it benefited him or the team to farm him out to the wing. Yes he was great against Citeh but ineffective other than that, I don't see that it helped his development at all.

It kept him in the team and helped his fitness. I can't actually remember what our CM combination was at the beginning of last season... Arteta and.. just looked it up, Diaby played before he got injured and Wilshere came in. It is hard to know for sure how much it helped his development playing out there but I don't think that playing a mobile, attack-minded midfielder in an advanced wide position is as outlandish as many have made out. Certainly made more sense then playing that fat *word censored* bendtner out there.

[armchair]

No. Im not kidding.
Wenger is responsible for dividing the fans. And causing discontent in the stands. Ironically the fighting and the subsequent publicity it created only served to add more pressure on him and we now see the on the pitch the effect that this pressure and that of the media, board, lack of projected season ticke sales have had with the sales of the "deadwood" and failed attempt to buy Rooney, Higuain, Suarez.

[Theoperator]

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Arsenal sack Wenger when 7 points ahead in the PL after fans fought last year



LOL

Lets face it, no one in power for 17 years does it all perfectly, and along the way picks up a bucketload of enemies. But really to blame WENGER for causing fights is mad- its the strong feelings pro and against that caused it surely and the inability of fans to come to any sort of concensus. They should have controlled their emotions, and argue over their game of cribbage in the pubs afterwards end of.