Questions for a Liverpool site

[carra]

No black players come through- "What does skin colour matter?".......erm Toxteth, remember that?:

I'd like to see more youngsters come through at Liverpool full stop, like they used to. Whether they're black, white, asian, mixed race, or whatever, doesn't concern me in the least.

People have got blood on their hands with Hillsborough- No mention of the Liverpool supporters then? Just a coincidence they was there!:

Heysel- If you get spat on it is ok to riot and kill!
:

I didn't say that did I? You half wit.

Hooliganism in the 70s and 80s, went on everywhere and that's where we can feel guilty. I've taken a severe hiding for walking down the wrong road at a few grounds and picked off on my own.

Liverpool fans used to be terribly behaved at times and got up to all kinds but we weren't the worst. In that situation, what happened at Heysel, could have had exactly the same results, had any English team played there that day. Take it from someone who was there. And yes LFC fans did take responsibility anyway. Thousands never went to a game again because of the guilt. In the same way thousands never went to a game again after Hillsborough because of the sheer trauma of it.

Had a tragedy occurred at other events. I.e. Wolves 76 where we won the league and basically took over the whole stadium and got in by hook or crook, it would have been our fault. But the authorities in charge, have a hell of alot to answer for, as regards to Hillsborough and Heysel.

I admit, back then we had the mentality that football was more than life and death and getting in to see the team, was all that mattered and wherever we played, we had to be there.

[carra]

Well done Carra. A decent response.

Nice to see someone from up your way can take banter in the way it is meant. Personally I will never accept that there is no fault at all attached to the fans at Hillsborough. I'm quite happy that they were not the main factor by any stretch of the imagination but they cannot blame everyone and accept none themselves. If one solitary supporter tried getting in that day without a ticket then they contributed to the incident.

For the record. The yellow shirt has "NOTHING" to do with Hillsborough at all. It is to commemerate the 20th anniversary of our turning you over and winning the league on your ground. Nothing more. Please pass that on to those that think otherwise.

That's fine mate but its the first i'd heard about it.

I just think its easy for fans of toher teams to say "you killed your own fans". Or "Your own fans played a big part in it" with regards to Hillsborough. I know where your coming from but its what happened after, which caused so much more hurt and it was the authorities (i.e. the yorkshire police and SWFC who passed the blame onto us (feeding the tabloids the next day "the truth"). Isn't that what we get accused of doing?

Seriously, i'd advise anyone to either read that website link from my other post (its a difficult read I admit), or buy the book "Hillsborough the truth", just go get a better understanding. The Taylor report, exonerated Liverpool fans of blame but we're still fighting for justice.

Not exonerated for Heysel though hey? Still wasnt your fault though

It was our fault for reacting yes.

Whether other fans would have reacted differently, admist that provocation is another question entirely.

[flash gunner]

Well done Carra. A decent response.

Nice to see someone from up your way can take banter in the way it is meant. Personally I will never accept that there is no fault at all attached to the fans at Hillsborough. I'm quite happy that they were not the main factor by any stretch of the imagination but they cannot blame everyone and accept none themselves. If one solitary supporter tried getting in that day without a ticket then they contributed to the incident.

For the record. The yellow shirt has "NOTHING" to do with Hillsborough at all. It is to commemerate the 20th anniversary of our turning you over and winning the league on your ground. Nothing more. Please pass that on to those that think otherwise.

That's fine mate but its the first i'd heard about it.

I just think its easy for fans of toher teams to say "you killed your own fans". Or "Your own fans played a big part in it" with regards to Hillsborough. I know where your coming from but its what happened after, which caused so much more hurt and it was the authorities (i.e. the yorkshire police and SWFC who passed the blame onto us (feeding the tabloids the next day "the truth"). Isn't that what we get accused of doing?

Seriously, i'd advise anyone to either read that website link from my other post (its a difficult read I admit), or buy the book "Hillsborough the truth", just go get a better understanding. The Taylor report, exonerated Liverpool fans of blame but we're still fighting for justice.

Not exonerated for Heysel though hey? Still wasnt your fault though

It was our fault for reacting yes.

Whether other fans would have reacted differently, admist that provocation is another question entirely.

First time ive ever heard a liverpool fan admit any form of guilt for Heysel or Hillsborough, maybe other fans would have done the same we will never know but it was Liverpool fans that caused the death of the Italians that night

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Call me a halfwit all you like!

I wasn't involved with the murder of innocents!

:awnker:

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Well done Carra. A decent response.

Nice to see someone from up your way can take banter in the way it is meant. Personally I will never accept that there is no fault at all attached to the fans at Hillsborough. I'm quite happy that they were not the main factor by any stretch of the imagination but they cannot blame everyone and accept none themselves. If one solitary supporter tried getting in that day without a ticket then they contributed to the incident.

For the record. The yellow shirt has "NOTHING" to do with Hillsborough at all. It is to commemerate the 20th anniversary of our turning you over and winning the league on your ground. Nothing more. Please pass that on to those that think otherwise.

That's fine mate but its the first i'd heard about it.

I just think its easy for fans of toher teams to say "you killed your own fans". Or "Your own fans played a big part in it" with regards to Hillsborough. I know where your coming from but its what happened after, which caused so much more hurt and it was the authorities (i.e. the yorkshire police and SWFC who passed the blame onto us (feeding the tabloids the next day "the truth"). Isn't that what we get accused of doing?

Seriously, i'd advise anyone to either read that website link from my other post (its a difficult read I admit), or buy the book "Hillsborough the truth", just go get a better understanding. The Taylor report, exonerated Liverpool fans of blame but we're still fighting for justice.

Not exonerated for Heysel though hey? Still wasnt your fault though

It was our fault for reacting yes.

Whether other fans would have reacted differently, admist that provocation is another question entirely.

There always has to be a spin on it hey!

We can all assume or imagine what others may or may not have done in the same circumstances but the only facts are what actually DID occur.

Don't try and tar us with the same brush through the association of all being football supporters!

[carra]

Well done Carra. A decent response.

Nice to see someone from up your way can take banter in the way it is meant. Personally I will never accept that there is no fault at all attached to the fans at Hillsborough. I'm quite happy that they were not the main factor by any stretch of the imagination but they cannot blame everyone and accept none themselves. If one solitary supporter tried getting in that day without a ticket then they contributed to the incident.

For the record. The yellow shirt has "NOTHING" to do with Hillsborough at all. It is to commemerate the 20th anniversary of our turning you over and winning the league on your ground. Nothing more. Please pass that on to those that think otherwise.

That's fine mate but its the first i'd heard about it.

I just think its easy for fans of toher teams to say "you killed your own fans". Or "Your own fans played a big part in it" with regards to Hillsborough. I know where your coming from but its what happened after, which caused so much more hurt and it was the authorities (i.e. the yorkshire police and SWFC who passed the blame onto us (feeding the tabloids the next day "the truth"). Isn't that what we get accused of doing?

Seriously, i'd advise anyone to either read that website link from my other post (its a difficult read I admit), or buy the book "Hillsborough the truth", just go get a better understanding. The Taylor report, exonerated Liverpool fans of blame but we're still fighting for justice.

Not exonerated for Heysel though hey? Still wasnt your fault though

It was our fault for reacting yes.

Whether other fans would have reacted differently, admist that provocation is another question entirely.

There always has to be a spin on it hey!

We can all assume or imagine what others may or may not have doen in the same circumstances but the only facts are what actually DID occur.

Don't try and tar us with the same brush through the association of all being football supporters!

Don't tar all us with the same brush then.

I bet your fans will be singing "Murderers" on Sunday, like everyone else but does that mean all of us are? A group of Liverpool fans, ran at a group of Juventus fans, who fled and a wall collapsed. Our fans shouldn't have reacted, anymore than the Juventus fans shouldn't have spat at our section and thrown things into it but its simplistic to be moralistic after the event, when you don't know the full story and weren't there. I was there and saw for myself what happened and have been called a murderer for 20 years, for simply being a Liverpool fan and then you tend to get defensive about it.

Most of those involved ended up going to prison and got punished. LFC got punished with a 7 year ban from Europe, at a time when we had the best team in Europe.

English clubs got banned as well but that's not entirely down to Liverpool fans. It was down to English fans in general running riot everywhere for over a decade and the ban was coming anyway. Heysel was the real final straw. Maggie Thatcher decided to ban all English clubs but LFC would have accepted a sole punishment.

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Provoked

Not all our fault

You was all doing it too

Blah

Blah

Blah

Same old

Same old

[EC3]

Heysel wasn't Liverpool it was Chelsea.............thought everyone knew that.

[carra]

Provoked

Not all our fault

You was all doing it too

Blah

Blah

Blah

Same old

Same old

I'm just dealing with facts.

Liverpool fans killing 39 fans at Heysel is a fact.

But did they just react for no reason? Of course not.

The "You was all doing it too" comments come out because its fans of other clubs (and I don't mean Arsenal) who call us for everything, when their fans in the 70s/80s were as bad, if not worse. I just find that hypocritical.

I've seen far worse 'violence' take place at football grounds than at Heysel and without anyone getting seriously hurt. Both involving and not involving Liverpool. The difference being, Heysel wasn't fit to host a Sunday league game, let alone a European Cup final. It didn't even have a proper safety certificate.

Thankfully the game has now moved on and violence inside grounds is mainly a thing of the past and while its probably gone too far the other way in the Sky era, supporters safety is no longer taken for granted.

[carra]

Heysel wasn't Liverpool it was Chelsea.............thought everyone knew that.

It wasn't anything to do with Chelsea. That was a stupid myth, perpetuated by some and that line always comes out now in sarcasm.

Again, I was there and unlike anyone on here, I saw first hand what happened.

[Radford149]

Hi Radford. Good questions, i'll try and answer.

questions

1. why still the victim mentality?)

I don't agree with the word 'victim' but it goes back to the late 70s/80s, when the city of Liverpool was fucked over by the tory goverment and lost the majority of its industry.

you don't agree with the word victim but i see you agree with the sentiments, however lots of areas lost their main employers over the past 40 years so i don't buy your argument.

2. do you feel any guilt about the fact that your actions have directly caused the advent of the souless new stadia that have been built??)

Yes but having been at Heysel and Hillsborough, its not all the fault of Liverpool fans. Heysel was an absolute wreck of a stadium and the organisation was a complete shambles. Some Juventus fans spat at LFC fans through poor segregation, some of our fans reacted, the Italians fled and the wall collapsed. Hooliganism happened everywhere back then and yes we can feel guilt for that but if someone spits in your face, then you tend to react.

glad to hear a mickey admit to some guilt (fair play to you). but to blame fans spitting and a poor ground for the excuse of 39 deaths is bollocks. i would like to know if liverpool fc ever said sorry to Juve fans or if any official or unofficial supporters clubs connected to liverpool have ever offered condolences on the anniversary of the heysel tragedy of have you conveniently airbrushed that incident from your history?

With regards to Hillsborough, then certain people have blood on their hands. Including the FA, Duckenfield and the Sheffield police. If you want to educate yourself on the subject, by a copy of the excellent and horrifying "Hillsborough: The Truth" or have a look at the website www.contrast.org/hillsborough

another tragedy and a waste of life, whilst i respect what you have written i still cannot get over the fact that your fans without tickets tried to get in. hillsbrough had held many a semi-final so the police etc were used to dealing with the crowds expected. what they were not used to were the hoards of your mob trying to gain illegal entry

3. why do your fans STILL continue to arrive at grounds without tickets and then rush the gates in an attempt to gain entry???)

Some do I admit. That wasn't what caused Heysel or Hillsborough though. Any decent organisation and venue and our fans have never had problems.

a lot do and what fucking annoys me is the combined liverpool fc fans have been involved in TWO MAJOR tragedies and yet the *word censored* STILL carry on with that shit. *word censored*.

also venues are designed for reasonably behaved fans not shit bags.

4. will your club really ever get rid of the fact that it is impossible for black local players to go through the ranks at your club??)

What's skin colour got to do with it? If your good enough, you're good enough. No-one has broken through since Gerrard anyway. I remember Howard Gayle back in the day.

1. skin colour is the whole point of the question

2. the fact that you mention howard gayle sums up my point. right here we go.

liverpool as a city along with bristol and london is one of the oldest black communities in the country. your policy along with the toffees has been racist in its execution and an affront to all the non-white players who have been looked over in your teams quest maintain an apartheid type hold over who you select.

the fact that ONLY Howard Gayle is the only person who seems to have played IS a MAJOR stain on your club and city. i ask anyone to speak to Howard Gayle and ask him about the shit he had to go through.

sorry but you should all feel ashamed and should have asked questions long ago.

p.s one of your greatest (and one of englands greatest) managers bob paisley is on record as saying he just didn't trust black players. that says it all.

5. given the fact that you and the toffees are so inter wound would it not make sense to ground share???)

No. We both need our own identity.

i absolutely agree

6. why do your fans still perpetuate the anfield "atmosphere" when you in fact use records to get you going (and rarely lasts beyond the record)???)

YNWA is a big part of our fan culture. Why have Arsenal started to use Elvis then? YNWA has been sang at Anfield for over 40 years.

the elvis song is a stain and an embarrassment to me and the club

The Anfield atmosphere is poor now generally like everywhere else but alot of Liverpool fans, find Arsenal fans as hypocrites for coming to Anfield and having a pop at our atmosphere, when the Emirates is no better. We will get behind our own team on Sunday, without resorting to small time shite like "Shall we sing a song for you".

the thing is a lot of the Arsenal way fans do not go the home because the atmosphere is so shit (but you have a point over the hypocrisy thing) but we can both agree the atmosphere has gone downhill everywhere.

8. whats the beef with us celebrating 89 next year?

First i've heard of it. Unless someone got their wires crossed and thought you were celebrating Hillsborough, like the mancs are planning on doing.

the bitterness from liverpool fans is on a lot of forums. but i would suggest its only a few

10. what are your thoughts on the newbies that flock in every other week??

I think they should stay down south and support their local team, or some other Southern club. What's your thoughts on all your post Euro 96 brigade?

i totally agree. as for post euro 96 i say in your words "do one"

11. is it your or celtics song???

Ours.

fair enough (few jocks would argue though)

12. i need a car stereo and some nice hub caps, can you sort me out????

Your so original.

allow me one stupid question

must say that the totty up there is quality as long as they don't open there gobs (except at the obvious time)

True.

got any good looking sisters/mates


thanks for taking the time out to answer my questions. i will (in bold) above give my thoughts to your answers[/b]

[mrgnu1958]

RIGHT!...if Liverpools THAT good..Why did the Beatles fuck off after their 1st hit.
AND..the only decent scouser is Buck Tarbrush"s daughter Lisa Tarbuck.
Now she"d most definately get a 2inch portion

[EC3]

Heysel was a shit hole of a ground.

I was there when we had Valencia in the final, as soon as the penalty was missed, the fencing etc came down when trying to get at Valencia.

I have no time for all the Hillsborough excuses, Liverpool looking the blame any and everyone.

I remember there used to be a little group of Liverpool that would drink in The George every year and pissed me right off when they used to try and give out badges saying don't buy The Sun.

They kept to themselves but was eventually told to fuck off with the badges.........they haven't been back since.

[stg]

Re:Hillsbourough

Can you answer a couple of questions for me please

Is it true that Liverpool supporters without tickets waited untill the last min and then charged the police line?

After the police let them through as they thought this would be safer than holding back the fans. Did the Liverpool fans then rush the gate to get in ?

If at any point either one of the two questions above is true why do Liverpool supporters with out tickets still try and get into grounds by pushing through gates?
A note on the above question if you say they do not try and do this please talk to the police at Arsenal or the stewards who were pushed out of the way at the Arsenal v Liverpool game last season

[TheOne2Smooth]

Heysel wasn't Liverpool it was Chelsea.............thought everyone knew that.

No it wasnt it was The Sun! there also to blame for Hilsborough, Perms being unfashionable, Coleen Rooney, Liverpools title drout, BMX ride by shootings, the miners etc etc

Cara can you explain a mystery to me?

Cilla Black why?