i'll Start with Flashes comment:Percy Dalton wrote:Why does every discussion about football and our football manager turn into a debate about finance?
While I very much understand that Arsenal have financial constraints, we was told by all and sundry, including Wenger, that they would not affect the playing side of the club.
We can all guess about the size and length of the restrictions but what we do know for fact is that the first team of Arsenal Football Club has been in decline for several seasons now.
Arsene Wenger has had money to spend and it must be said that some of it has been spent very unwisely. While the introduction of Arshavin has been fantastic it was money spent in an area needing the least improvement. Only a very blinkered or blind man would fail to see that it is the spine of the team that requires the most surgery. The Arshavin's and Nasri's of this world and nice to haves but they need to be supported by players with experience and strength. For all the wonderful flair players we have had we have had in the past a Petit or a Keown was playing alongside them. Wenger's change of policy to go with smaller, quicker and more technical players has failed. So regardless of money, Wenger is at fault there and has been for several seasons.
At any other club in the world, the fall in standards seen at Arsenal would not have been tolerated and so of course the managers head would have rolled. I am not endorsing all managerial sackings but some are necessary in order to turn fortunes around. At present we are habitual also rans, nothing more and nothing less.
For a club like Arsenal that is not good enough and the buck stops with one man, Wenger!
But when asked by reporters or Skysports for example would you expect the board to to remain silent? No - they're all running the company line. "they'res money available...blah blah blah....Maybe but if board members are saying we have the money and Wenger isnt spending something somewhere is wrong. Surely silence would be the best option rather than bravado that makes our manager look below par
I think its fair to say losing in the semi final is claiming to be close to winning a competition. its further than every team bar 2 have got.Percy Dalton wrote:I can easily call us that Red Carpet. I would like to call us runners up but that title only goes to side that comes second.
Apart from 2006 we cannot claim to even be runners up so also rans I feel is a very apt description for a team that cannot even claim to be close to winning the competiton whether that be the Premiership or the Champions League.
What adjective would you use to describe the side since 2005?
Jesus Christ man Spurs have been in two finals in the last two seasons, winning one. They are the biggest bunch of also rans known to man.Red Carpet wrote:I think its fair to say losing in the semi final is claiming to be close to winning a competition. its further than every team bar 2 have got.
You have chosen to exclude 2006 as it doesn't suit your argument, so habitual also rans continues to be unfair.
I will say it again, we have no God given right to win anything. We can only hope to be competitive. Two cup semi finals is competitive although it doesn't suit your argument. the league we have not been competitive I agree but at least we have managed to string together the longest unbeaten run of ANY side this season.
Your expectations are ridiculous.
So we are now comparing Spurs 2 carling Cup Final appearances with getting to the last 4 of the most prestigious and competitive competition in Europe are we ??.Number 5 wrote:Jesus Christ man Spurs have been in two finals in the last two seasons, winning one. They are the biggest bunch of also rans known to man.Red Carpet wrote:I think its fair to say losing in the semi final is claiming to be close to winning a competition. its further than every team bar 2 have got.
You have chosen to exclude 2006 as it doesn't suit your argument, so habitual also rans continues to be unfair.
I will say it again, we have no God given right to win anything. We can only hope to be competitive. Two cup semi finals is competitive although it doesn't suit your argument. the league we have not been competitive I agree but at least we have managed to string together the longest unbeaten run of ANY side this season.
Your expectations are ridiculous.
The trophies that actually count are the CL and the PL.
In the PL we were done by November. No matter we have a long unbeaten run, it is littered with draws. You seem to contradict yourself here though. Boasting about having the longest unbeaten run and then in the next sentence telling Percy his expectations are ridiculous? I would find it highly plausible to expect a team with the longest unbeaten run to be still in with a shout of the league with three games to go. Don't forget if we had beaten Utd at OT last year we would have been PL champs. That is the kind of competetivness I want to see. Give me that and I'll be backing Wenger all the way.
So we have gone from that to being cooked by November this year. Dragged down by Wengers many mistakes and his failed experiments this season
In fact if you want to be realistic about it inter gave manure a much better run for their money than we did and could have actually won the tie 
Ok I'll say it again, last season we were one win away from the Premier League title. That was achieved against the backdrop of all you say I am seeming to ignore. That is the realism I meaure my expectations against as it actually happened. It is a fact from last year. The squad from one year ago achieved all that I expected in a season. And that squad was dismantled and replaced by inferior players, not because of any of the restraints you suggest but because of Wenger. He let the players who left leave believing we had enough to replace and compete at a similar level. As has been proved this season he was unbelieveably wrong in this vision.Red Carpet wrote:So we are now comparing Spurs 2 carling Cup Final appearances with getting to the last 4 of the most prestigious and competitive competition in Europe are we ??.
I don't contradict myself at all actually, my point is that despite putting together a run that has been beyond every other club this season its still not enough. Only 1st is good enough, only winning the CL is good enough.
You cannot expect the club to meet those expectations given the situation they find themselves in. You chose to ignore the ground move, you chose to ignore the fact that we are the only club in the top for who do not run at a loss and a saddled with massive debt because you can't wait for a parade around Islington in an open top bus. We all want better for our clubs but it has to be measured against realism.
Thats the spirit ... now that wasn't too hard was it ?Number 5 wrote:Ok I'll say it again, last season we were one win away from the Premier League title. That was achieved against the backdrop of all you say I am seeming to ignore. That is the realism I meaure my expectations against as it actually happened. It is a fact from last year. The squad from one year ago achieved all that I expected in a season. And that squad was dismantled and replaced by inferior players, not because of any of the restraints you suggest but because of Wenger. He let the players who left leave believing we had enough to replace and compete at a similar level. As has been proved this season he was unbelieveably wrong in this vision.Red Carpet wrote:So we are now comparing Spurs 2 carling Cup Final appearances with getting to the last 4 of the most prestigious and competitive competition in Europe are we ??.
I don't contradict myself at all actually, my point is that despite putting together a run that has been beyond every other club this season its still not enough. Only 1st is good enough, only winning the CL is good enough.
You cannot expect the club to meet those expectations given the situation they find themselves in. You chose to ignore the ground move, you chose to ignore the fact that we are the only club in the top for who do not run at a loss and a saddled with massive debt because you can't wait for a parade around Islington in an open top bus. We all want better for our clubs but it has to be measured against realism.
Don't worry about what I expect from the club because when we rock up in August I won't be expecting a challange for the PL or the CL. I will base my new expectations on the pathetic and abject performances the team put in this year, not the other constraints you mention.
Football is full of ifs and buts .. the records show that Man U won the CL in 99 and 08. What is does not show is they were murdered in 99 by Bayern and they were a slip by Mr Chelsea away from losing last years final.augie wrote:Red Carpet, you accuse percy of excluding 2006 as it doesnt suit his arguement but yet you totally ignore the fact that we have had two very easy run of ties to get to the semi finals you keep quoting. Yes we can only beat the teams before us but there is no getting away from the fact that beating those weak opposition to get to the semi's is nothing to brag about and had we drawn even a half decent team in either competition we would not have gone so far. People quote the fact that we have gone further than the likes of real madrid and inter but madrid were beaten by a team that is way ahead of us in the prem and inter were beaten by the soon to be crowned league champs plus manure are the reigning champs league holders and they wiped the floor with us in both semi final legs
You are managing your expectations.Number 5 wrote:What in God's name are you talking about?Red Carpet wrote:Thats the spirit ... now that wasn't too hard was it ?
Can you pass the message on ???
This is what I've been saying all along, nothing you have posted has changed anything for me.
I've expected not to be winning anything for the past 2/3 years whilst we committ into the staduim devlepment and payments. However, Wengers still made us 'fairly' competative iin this time.Number 5 wrote:Jesus Christ man Spurs have been in two finals in the last two seasons, winning one. They are the biggest bunch of also rans known to man.Red Carpet wrote:I think its fair to say losing in the semi final is claiming to be close to winning a competition. its further than every team bar 2 have got.
You have chosen to exclude 2006 as it doesn't suit your argument, so habitual also rans continues to be unfair.
I will say it again, we have no God given right to win anything. We can only hope to be competitive. Two cup semi finals is competitive although it doesn't suit your argument. the league we have not been competitive I agree but at least we have managed to string together the longest unbeaten run of ANY side this season.
Your expectations are ridiculous.
The trophies that actually count are the CL and the PL.
In the PL we were done by November. No matter we have a long unbeaten run, it is littered with draws. You seem to contradict yourself here though. Boasting about having the longest unbeaten run and then in the next sentence telling Percy his expectations are ridiculous? I would find it highly plausible to expect a team with the longest unbeaten run to be still in with a shout of the league with three games to go. Don't forget if we had beaten Utd at OT last year we would have been PL champs. That is the kind of competetivness I want to see. Give me that and I'll be backing Wenger all the way.
So we have gone from that to being cooked by November this year. Dragged down by Wengers many mistakes and his failed experiments this season
Basing my expectations on the on field performances of our players are the wrong reasons?Red Carpet wrote:You are managing your expectations.Number 5 wrote:What in God's name are you talking about?Red Carpet wrote:Thats the spirit ... now that wasn't too hard was it ?
Can you pass the message on ???
This is what I've been saying all along, nothing you have posted has changed anything for me.
Granted, not for the right reasons, but hey, Rome wasn't built in a day.
You can chose to ignore those reasons but they won't go away.Number 5 wrote:Basing my expectations on the on field performances of our players are the wrong reasons?Red Carpet wrote:You are managing your expectations.Number 5 wrote:What in God's name are you talking about?Red Carpet wrote:Thats the spirit ... now that wasn't too hard was it ?
Can you pass the message on ???
This is what I've been saying all along, nothing you have posted has changed anything for me.
Granted, not for the right reasons, but hey, Rome wasn't built in a day.
Shit if that's the case I don't want to know the right reasons.
And I don't need to hear about finances ad finitum.
No no no Boomer.Boomer wrote: I've expected not to be winning anything for the past 2/3 years whilst we committ into the staduim devlepment and payments. However, Wengers still made us 'fairly' competative iin this time.
Maybe that's we're his going wrong by giving us the glimer of hope!
Look at the squad and how much he's paid on it. Is it any wonder why he has to experiment and rely on youth, this was a plan set out age's ago ready for now.
Almunia - undisclosed fee (£2.5)
Sagna - £6.1m
Clichy - Free
Toure - £150,000
Gallas - +£5 million
Gibbs - Free
Eboue - Free(?)
Djourou -Free
Cesc - Free
Song - free
Diaby - £2m
Denilson - £3.4 m
Arshavin - £15m (?)
Nasri - £12.7 million
Rosicky £6M
RVP - £2.75
Walcott - £10M(?)
Vela - £550,000
Eduardo - £7.5 m
Adebayor - £7
Total spent - £75.65.
That's less then the squad of my fantasty football team.
Given what other clubs can do we really shouldn't be competiting. But we still there.
Look at the millions Chelsea have spent...Spurs have spent millions more then us with no success (baring the C/Cup)
Yes the gap is opening but it's temporary.
