ALL YOU DO IS FCUKING MOAN

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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Only One Tony Adams
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Re: ALL YOU DO IS FCUKING MOAN

Post by Only One Tony Adams »

Louder wrote:
greengooner wrote:
Louder wrote:
hatchy wrote: I see that the forum has now just become a place for most arsenal fans to just moan about arsenal not winning things and arsenal not buying anyone why dont you all just go and follow manshity and leave the club to fans that dont just moan for the sake of it , yes i know that arsenal havn`t won anything in 5 years but thats nothing and to say things like sack the manager when he is the best we ever had is madness and the time to panic is when he isn`t here anymore trust me

Go on my son, well said Hatch'. It breaks my heart to hear Arsenal slagged of by 'fans'. This place is obviously a haunt for anti-gooners. But stay and fight the good fight, and when the club flourishes after a few years of hard work and sarcrifice you'll be safe in the knowledge that you never turned your back on Arsenal. :barscarf:

Keep contributing Hatch' :barscarf:

Generally i would try not to rise to shit posts like this but i just have to say you appear to be a grade A prick, who the fuck on here has ever turned their back on Arsenal, Please pack up your 12 posts and head for the official forum, just search PRAVDA.com and you will fit right in.
I don't like accusing gooners of such a thing, but if you look back you'll find plenty who campaigned for 'fans' to turn and walk out at the last home game of last season when the team walked round the pitch. Or doesn't this count.
No one seemed to actually do it, which leads me to think that I'm in the majority ! :lol: Ohhhh Haaapppyyy daaaayyyyyssssss :barscarf:

Honest question, and I mean this sincerely. Most paddies aren't too keen on the English but they all support our football teams, why ?[/quote]


What a *word censored*, fools like you make me embarrassed to be English.
Fuck off to .com you silly little man....... :evil: :awnker: :awnker:

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marcengels
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Post by marcengels »

Can't we all just agree that Arsenal are going nowhere, and leave it at that...

8)

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REB
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Post by REB »

marcengels wrote:Can't we all just agree that Arsenal are going nowhere, and leave it at that...

8)
you cant say that :?

anti gooner for having a mind of your own :wink:

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bergkamp10
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Re: ALL YOU DO IS FCUKING MOAN

Post by bergkamp10 »

REBEL GOONER wrote:
Louder wrote:
hatchy wrote: I see that the forum has now just become a place for most arsenal fans to just moan about arsenal not winning things and arsenal not buying anyone why dont you all just go and follow manshity and leave the club to fans that dont just moan for the sake of it , yes i know that arsenal havn`t won anything in 5 years but thats nothing and to say things like sack the manager when he is the best we ever had is madness and the time to panic is when he isn`t here anymore trust me
:awnker:



This place is obviously a haunt for anti-gooners. But :barscarf:
:barscarf:
quiet the opposite, it is a place where arsenal fans arent afraid to have an opinion other then redactions one arsene wenger ...

and if people dont like it then dont post, quiet simple really :roll:
R.GONNER you are so right, I supported them for over 35+ years, father before me,so on. I use to pay £99 for my season ticket, I would pay £1999 if I didn't live in Cumbria.

I WILL support A.F.C. for ever.. :barscarf:

Sadly and extremely sadly the last couple of seasons, it's been a really break the soul & heart time ....

So close yet so far...so bloody far away.

:cry: :)

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Only One Tony Adams
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Post by Only One Tony Adams »

marcengels wrote:Can't we all just agree that Arsenal are going nowhere, and leave it at that...

8)
No, we're going to win the treble this season, just you wait and see.
......... :roll: :lol: :lol: :wink:

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the playing mantis
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Post by the playing mantis »

irish, colchester is not a shithole...
i agree with your other sentiments though!

the reason no one turned there back at last game, was most of the ST's and regulars who endured last season gave there tickets away (like myself) or sold them on for that game, so you got a lot of tourists at the game who have no idea about the situation.

for all those who say we cant critcise AW cos of the lack of money hes had and no other manager could do better cos of the lcak of money, please just explain why our wage bill is so high and why players who are clearly crap arnt sold and are instead rewarded for acheiving nothing. fine the board may also be a problem, but that doesnt explain the retention of crap in the squad.

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clockendal
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Post by clockendal »

the playing mantis wrote:irish, colchester is not a shithole...
i agree with your other sentiments though!

the reason no one turned there back at last game, was most of the ST's and regulars who endured last season gave there tickets away (like myself) or sold them on for that game, so you got a lot of tourists at the game who have no idea about the situation.

for all those who say we cant critcise AW cos of the lack of money hes had and no other manager could do better cos of the lcak of money, please just explain why our wage bill is so high and why players who are clearly crap arnt sold and are instead rewarded for acheiving nothing. fine the board may also be a problem, but that doesnt explain the retention of crap in the squad.
They finished 3rd and qualified for the Champions League. Above 16 other teams in the country. And please don't all start with the "but everyone else was crap last season, they will all spend money and improve" who has bar Man City ? And even then it takes time for players to gel so there is no guarantee they will finsh above us.

Look how much it meant to Sp*rs to qualify for the champions league (provided they don't get knocked out in the qualifier :D ). I bet all their players will be in asking for improved contracts due to the fact they are now playing in the champions league.

I know that we expect to be challenging for the title but qualifying for the champions league every season is an achievment, albeit it seems we now take it for granted. I am not saying we shouldn't be aiming for winning the title, but we are still up there above lots of teams who would swap places with us.

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donaldo
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Post by donaldo »

clockendal wrote:
the playing mantis wrote:irish, colchester is not a shithole...
i agree with your other sentiments though!

the reason no one turned there back at last game, was most of the ST's and regulars who endured last season gave there tickets away (like myself) or sold them on for that game, so you got a lot of tourists at the game who have no idea about the situation.

for all those who say we cant critcise AW cos of the lack of money hes had and no other manager could do better cos of the lcak of money, please just explain why our wage bill is so high and why players who are clearly crap arnt sold and are instead rewarded for acheiving nothing. fine the board may also be a problem, but that doesnt explain the retention of crap in the squad.
They finished 3rd and qualified for the Champions League. Above 16 other teams in the country. And please don't all start with the "but everyone else was crap last season, they will all spend money and improve" who has bar Man City ? And even then it takes time for players to gel so there is no guarantee they will finsh above us.

Look how much it meant to Sp*rs to qualify for the champions league (provided they don't get knocked out in the qualifier :D ). I bet all their players will be in asking for improved contracts due to the fact they are now playing in the champions league.

I know that we expect to be challenging for the title but qualifying for the champions league every season is an achievment, albeit it seems we now take it for granted. I am not saying we shouldn't be aiming for winning the title, but we are still up there above lots of teams who would swap places with us.
Yes we finished 3rd but lost nearly a quarter of our league games which shows the standard of the premiership was not great.Add to that getting demolished at home by Chelsea and Man Utd again

northbankbren
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Post by northbankbren »

Isn't moaning what this place is all about? 8)

Lets be honest this place would be bloody quiet and boring if we won all the time.

I do agree that the pessimists far outnumber the optimist here, but that is bound to happen.

......isn't it strange though, at around the same time this forum came online we stopped winning trophies..................

ITS OUR FAULT!!!!!!!

Goddamn Gooner Ed SHUT THE FORUM DOWN FOR THE SAKE OF THE TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :lol: :lol: :wink:

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

clockendal wrote:
the playing mantis wrote:irish, colchester is not a shithole...
i agree with your other sentiments though!

the reason no one turned there back at last game, was most of the ST's and regulars who endured last season gave there tickets away (like myself) or sold them on for that game, so you got a lot of tourists at the game who have no idea about the situation.

for all those who say we cant critcise AW cos of the lack of money hes had and no other manager could do better cos of the lcak of money, please just explain why our wage bill is so high and why players who are clearly crap arnt sold and are instead rewarded for acheiving nothing. fine the board may also be a problem, but that doesnt explain the retention of crap in the squad.
They finished 3rd and qualified for the Champions League. Above 16 other teams in the country. And please don't all start with the "but everyone else was crap last season, they will all spend money and improve" who has bar Man City ? And even then it takes time for players to gel so there is no guarantee they will finsh above us.

Look how much it meant to Sp*rs to qualify for the champions league (provided they don't get knocked out in the qualifier :D ). I bet all their players will be in asking for improved contracts due to the fact they are now playing in the champions league.

I know that we expect to be challenging for the title but qualifying for the champions league every season is an achievment, albeit it seems we now take it for granted. I am not saying we shouldn't be aiming for winning the title, but we are still up there above lots of teams who would swap places with us.
I don't think we "expect" to be challenging for the title every year. Im do agree the expectations are closer to that now, but only because of our recent history under our ciurrent manager, where from 1998-2005 we finished in the top two every year and won the League three times over that span (and Let's not forget if not for a very dodgy Blackburn equaliser in 97 we'd have finished second that year as well). That's the sole reason the expectations are this high at this point really.

Combine that with the sense since 2005 that this cklub has not made the best effort possible to put the best team possible on the pitch and often let us compete just a player or two or three short of being able to genuinely challenge for and maybe even win the Premiership , and then you have where the frustration lies at this point. Every year we seem to be so close yet so far away and it wouldn't risk the club's survival at any point really to invest that extra biut more they refuse to invest to turn frustration over being never quite there yet into jubilation at winning major trophies or satisfaction at least that we gave ourselves the best possible team and every chance to win them. But persisting not to do their best to do that frustrates far more than coming in second when you really could have come in first afterand have given your best effort to put the best team to do so out there..

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clockendal
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Post by clockendal »

USMartin wrote:
clockendal wrote:
the playing mantis wrote:irish, colchester is not a shithole...
i agree with your other sentiments though!

the reason no one turned there back at last game, was most of the ST's and regulars who endured last season gave there tickets away (like myself) or sold them on for that game, so you got a lot of tourists at the game who have no idea about the situation.

for all those who say we cant critcise AW cos of the lack of money hes had and no other manager could do better cos of the lcak of money, please just explain why our wage bill is so high and why players who are clearly crap arnt sold and are instead rewarded for acheiving nothing. fine the board may also be a problem, but that doesnt explain the retention of crap in the squad.
They finished 3rd and qualified for the Champions League. Above 16 other teams in the country. And please don't all start with the "but everyone else was crap last season, they will all spend money and improve" who has bar Man City ? And even then it takes time for players to gel so there is no guarantee they will finsh above us.

Look how much it meant to Sp*rs to qualify for the champions league (provided they don't get knocked out in the qualifier :D ). I bet all their players will be in asking for improved contracts due to the fact they are now playing in the champions league.

I know that we expect to be challenging for the title but qualifying for the champions league every season is an achievment, albeit it seems we now take it for granted. I am not saying we shouldn't be aiming for winning the title, but we are still up there above lots of teams who would swap places with us.
I don't think we "expect" to be challenging for the title every year. Im do agree the expectations are closer to that now, but only because of our recent history under our ciurrent manager, where from 1998-2005 we finished in the top two every year and won the League three times over that span (and Let's not forget if not for a very dodgy Blackburn equaliser in 97 we'd have finished second that year as well). That's the sole reason the expectations are this high at this point really.

Combine that with the sense since 2005 that this cklub has not made the best effort possible to put the best team possible on the pitch and often let us compete just a player or two or three short of being able to genuinely challenge for and maybe even win the Premiership , and then you have where the frustration lies at this point. Every year we seem to be so close yet so far away and it wouldn't risk the club's survival at any point really to invest that extra biut more they refuse to invest to turn frustration over being never quite there yet into jubilation at winning major trophies or satisfaction at least that we gave ourselves the best possible team and every chance to win them. But persisting not to do their best to do that frustrates far more than coming in second when you really could have come in first afterand have given your best effort to put the best team to do so out there..
So do you beleive that when Arsene goes to work he does not to his "best" to try and win things ? That he is happy finishing 3rd ? I don't think he is. The problem may lie in the fact that he beleives that these players ARE good enough to win trophies, but if you geniunely beleive he couldn't care less I think that is wrong,

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

clockendal wrote:
USMartin wrote:
clockendal wrote:
the playing mantis wrote:irish, colchester is not a shithole...
i agree with your other sentiments though!

the reason no one turned there back at last game, was most of the ST's and regulars who endured last season gave there tickets away (like myself) or sold them on for that game, so you got a lot of tourists at the game who have no idea about the situation.

for all those who say we cant critcise AW cos of the lack of money hes had and no other manager could do better cos of the lcak of money, please just explain why our wage bill is so high and why players who are clearly crap arnt sold and are instead rewarded for acheiving nothing. fine the board may also be a problem, but that doesnt explain the retention of crap in the squad.
They finished 3rd and qualified for the Champions League. Above 16 other teams in the country. And please don't all start with the "but everyone else was crap last season, they will all spend money and improve" who has bar Man City ? And even then it takes time for players to gel so there is no guarantee they will finsh above us.

Look how much it meant to Sp*rs to qualify for the champions league (provided they don't get knocked out in the qualifier :D ). I bet all their players will be in asking for improved contracts due to the fact they are now playing in the champions league.

I know that we expect to be challenging for the title but qualifying for the champions league every season is an achievment, albeit it seems we now take it for granted. I am not saying we shouldn't be aiming for winning the title, but we are still up there above lots of teams who would swap places with us.
I don't think we "expect" to be challenging for the title every year. Im do agree the expectations are closer to that now, but only because of our recent history under our ciurrent manager, where from 1998-2005 we finished in the top two every year and won the League three times over that span (and Let's not forget if not for a very dodgy Blackburn equaliser in 97 we'd have finished second that year as well). That's the sole reason the expectations are this high at this point really.

Combine that with the sense since 2005 that this cklub has not made the best effort possible to put the best team possible on the pitch and often let us compete just a player or two or three short of being able to genuinely challenge for and maybe even win the Premiership , and then you have where the frustration lies at this point. Every year we seem to be so close yet so far away and it wouldn't risk the club's survival at any point really to invest that extra biut more they refuse to invest to turn frustration over being never quite there yet into jubilation at winning major trophies or satisfaction at least that we gave ourselves the best possible team and every chance to win them. But persisting not to do their best to do that frustrates far more than coming in second when you really could have come in first afterand have given your best effort to put the best team to do so out there..
So do you beleive that when Arsene goes to work he does not to his "best" to try and win things ? That he is happy finishing 3rd ? I don't think he is. The problem may lie in the fact that he beleives that these players ARE good enough to win trophies, but if you geniunely beleive he couldn't care less I think that is wrong,
Not the Manager necessarily, but the people who provide the Manager's funds for team-building - yes that is very possible I'm afraid. If you have read my posts at all, I agree with you - I feel the Board has reduced the investment in the football team and that has much to do with our decline since 2005 I'd say its largely responsible for it in fact.. I don't think its any accident that the Manger's record on the oitch from 1998-2005 and friom 2005-2010 are virtually opposites, and that we have gone from spending about 5 million a summer from 1998-2005 to making about 5 million a summer from 2005-2010, and it all coincides with borrowing another 110 million to redevelop Highbury instead of selling it.

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clockendal
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Post by clockendal »

USMartin wrote:
clockendal wrote:
USMartin wrote:
clockendal wrote:
the playing mantis wrote:irish, colchester is not a shithole...
i agree with your other sentiments though!

the reason no one turned there back at last game, was most of the ST's and regulars who endured last season gave there tickets away (like myself) or sold them on for that game, so you got a lot of tourists at the game who have no idea about the situation.

for all those who say we cant critcise AW cos of the lack of money hes had and no other manager could do better cos of the lcak of money, please just explain why our wage bill is so high and why players who are clearly crap arnt sold and are instead rewarded for acheiving nothing. fine the board may also be a problem, but that doesnt explain the retention of crap in the squad.
They finished 3rd and qualified for the Champions League. Above 16 other teams in the country. And please don't all start with the "but everyone else was crap last season, they will all spend money and improve" who has bar Man City ? And even then it takes time for players to gel so there is no guarantee they will finsh above us.

Look how much it meant to Sp*rs to qualify for the champions league (provided they don't get knocked out in the qualifier :D ). I bet all their players will be in asking for improved contracts due to the fact they are now playing in the champions league.

I know that we expect to be challenging for the title but qualifying for the champions league every season is an achievment, albeit it seems we now take it for granted. I am not saying we shouldn't be aiming for winning the title, but we are still up there above lots of teams who would swap places with us.
I don't think we "expect" to be challenging for the title every year. Im do agree the expectations are closer to that now, but only because of our recent history under our ciurrent manager, where from 1998-2005 we finished in the top two every year and won the League three times over that span (and Let's not forget if not for a very dodgy Blackburn equaliser in 97 we'd have finished second that year as well). That's the sole reason the expectations are this high at this point really.

Combine that with the sense since 2005 that this cklub has not made the best effort possible to put the best team possible on the pitch and often let us compete just a player or two or three short of being able to genuinely challenge for and maybe even win the Premiership , and then you have where the frustration lies at this point. Every year we seem to be so close yet so far away and it wouldn't risk the club's survival at any point really to invest that extra biut more they refuse to invest to turn frustration over being never quite there yet into jubilation at winning major trophies or satisfaction at least that we gave ourselves the best possible team and every chance to win them. But persisting not to do their best to do that frustrates far more than coming in second when you really could have come in first afterand have given your best effort to put the best team to do so out there..
So do you beleive that when Arsene goes to work he does not to his "best" to try and win things ? That he is happy finishing 3rd ? I don't think he is. The problem may lie in the fact that he beleives that these players ARE good enough to win trophies, but if you geniunely beleive he couldn't care less I think that is wrong,
Not the Manager necessarily, but the people who provide the Manager's funds for team-building - yes that is very possible I'm afraid. If you have read my posts at all, I agree with you - I feel the Board has reduced the investment in the football team and that has much to do with our decline since 2005 I'd say its largely responsible for it in fact.. I don't think its any accident that the Manger's record on the oitch from 1998-2005 and friom 2005-2010 are virtually opposites, and that we have gone from spending about 5 million a summer from 1998-2005 to making about 5 million a summer from 2005-2010, and it all coincides with borrowing another 110 million to redevelop Highbury instead of selling it.
If Arsene beleive's this team has the BEST chance he feels to win a trophy then I don't think the board comes into it. Because if he did not surely he would go to the board and say "I need to sign some players". So we are back to the same old question ?

a) Do we have money and Arsene just won't spend because in his eyes we don't need to ?

b) The board won't splash the cash and Arsene plays along keeping board happy as long as we qualfiy for the c/l ?

Is that there sole aim then, make sure we're in the c/l. Risky game to play I think if they are reliant on Arsene keeping them in it each year.

If we did not qualify would he be sacked ?


Personally I really don't beleive he would go to work and accept he has one hand tied behind his back.

Yes our net spending has changed, but is that not market wide ? Look at the other clubs and how much has been spent ? I am fairly certain I have read SAF saying that Man U will not be spending much money.Yes, we obviously had the stadium finance to contend with, but it may have been also been in line with being ahead of the market and not paying out transfer fees for the sake of it. Everyone assumes "oh just pay the extra million or two to get a player" but why should you ? If you went to buy a new telly and you knew roughly what it was worth would you pay over the odds for it ? Might not be the best analogy but that's how I see it to an extent.

I think that Arsene's issue is that his become very stubborn and his beleif in these players and the effort he has put in with them makes him detemined to sucseed with them. Ultimatley that may be his undoing, but I don't think the whole board issue plays as much a part as you like to make out.

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

clockendal wrote: If Arsene beleive's this team has the BEST chance he feels to win a trophy then I don't think the board comes into it. Because if he did not surely he would go to the board and say "I need to sign some players". So we are back to the same old question ?
But DOES he? Just as you earlier suggested you don’t believe he doesn’t care if we don’t win things and that it bothers him deeply(And I agree fully)I don’t believe he can possibly conclude that this is the best team he can have on the pitch. Unless of course you add this phrase – on the money has to invest in the team. I can’t see how the man who saw the quality in the players he brought in from 1998-2005 can’t see the undeniable lack of relative quality in so many of the players brought in after 2005.. I can’t buy that he just became that bad a judge or coach of footballing talent just like that.
clockendal wrote: a) Do we have money and Arsene just won't spend because in his eyes we don't need to ?

b) The board won't splash the cash and Arsene plays along keeping board happy as long as we qualfiy for the c/l ?

Is that there sole aim then, make sure we're in the c/l. Risky game to play I think if they are reliant on Arsene keeping them in it each year.

If we did not qualify would he be sacked ?

A and B are the heart of this debate, and this debate is in my mind exactly what the Board wants - because so long as people are willing to believe this is Arsene Wenger’s stubbornness/miserliness/idealism/philosophy driving the lack of investment the Board don’t have to defend any of their actions. They retain Mr. Wenger as manager at this point because it gives them greater plausible deniability about any role they may or may not have in how much less we have invested in the team since 2005. I think if they sacked him even after a dropping out of the top four they could not count on his legendary loyalty to protect them from having to face questions about their real ambition for Arsenal Football Club since 2005 really. Its best he move upstairs as they say where they can still keep him close and loyal to them I think when that time comes.

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

clockendal wrote: Personally I really don't beleive he would go to work and accept he has one hand tied behind his back.
I would like to think that but I am not as sure. Many point out he could manager anywhere he wanted to the moment he left Arsenal. But could he? The top top clubs in Serie A and La Liga will sack managers when they WIN THE LEAGUE, so maybe its not that simple after all. Right now Arsene Wenger has one of the highest profile, best paying, and most secure managerial positions in all of club football, and he is still highly beloved for me by a majority of supporters though clearly that majority is diminishing constantly. Why would he leave now? Sad to say I think that’s the case. Not that he doesn’t care what’s happening but there’s not much he can do here now(like some Gooners seem to think maybe) and that better job he could pursue to get their attention isn’t there after all.
clockendal wrote: Yes our net spending has changed, but is that not market wide ? Look at the other clubs and how much has been spent ? I am fairly certain I have read SAF saying that Man U will not be spending much money.Yes, we obviously had the stadium finance to contend with, but it may have been also been in line with being ahead of the market and not paying out transfer fees for the sake of it. Everyone assumes "oh just pay the extra million or two to get a player" but why should you ? If you went to buy a new telly and you knew roughly what it was worth would you pay over the odds for it ? Might not be the best analogy but that's how I see it to an extent.
Let’s start at the end – you’re right …that is not the best analogy. The problem is this is a billion-pound business not a family trip to the appliance store. We don’t need to be that ridiculously conservative about everything in any event.

Second, this is more than a simple business this is a football club which represents the communities of Highbury and Islington and the hopes, dream,s and pride of its supporters locally in those boroughs, throughout England and Europe, and around the World. It isn’t simply the plaything of any multi-millionaires or billionaires – including those on the Board at the club NOW. Not every decision should be made with our Club’s share price its first and/or last or only concern. Sometimes paying more is an unpleasant necessity to achieve more and if you achieve enough then it will more than pay for additional two million you refer to.

This is especially true of player wages where the Board clearly has decided it will not compete for top players at all, which also makes transfer spending much less as those higher wage-earning players also command higher transfer fees for their clubs

As to everybody’s spending going down, yes, but given how much less we were spending than those clubs in the best of times we are spending as little or even less than they are now in the worst of times relatively speaking.

And we have more money to spend in theory if the Board want to have the manager spend it yet spend less still than these other clubs. Which makes the fact that we are still spending even less relative to these clubs inexcusable at this point.no matter what.
clockendal wrote: I think that Arsene's issue is that his become very stubborn and his beleif in these players and the effort he has put in with them makes him detemined to sucseed with them. Ultimatley that may be his undoing, but I don't think the whole board issue plays as much a part as you like to make out.
I think that if that were true I cannot see any other Board whose ambitions are the team’s success on the pitch ahead of enriching themselves retaining Mr. Wenger after 2007 let alone to now and beyond. They retain Mr. Wenger because he distracts supporters from whether the Board is doing what is best for Arsenal Football Club at this point. That’s his real value as I see, and while I don’t want to come off disrespectful in anyway as you have made a fairly good case for your view, your view only strengthens my own am I see it considering the facts we know.

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