Serious question

[mrgnu1958]

Christ, what a fucking stupid pointless thread... again...

Seriously, folks... no one on here has ANY EVIDENCE about anything the board may or may not have done. Period.

Marty, I don't wish to have a pop at you personally, mate - but you have to accept that you cannot accuse people of trying to protect the board or being in love with the board (or whatever the fuck) just because they are sick of reading essentially the same post reworded over and over again from you.

Please - GET THIS INTO YOUR HEAD - the VAST MAJORITY on here have no love for the board and do not trust them.

BUT they can also accept that Wenger must take a good portion (steady Jayson/Simon/SWL ) of the blame for the current shit the playing staff are dishing up and do not think it is all the boards fault.

ok...delete US martins post

[DB10GOONER]

Christ, what a fucking stupid pointless thread... again...

Seriously, folks... no one on here has ANY EVIDENCE about anything the board may or may not have done. Period.

Marty, I don't wish to have a pop at you personally, mate - but you have to accept that you cannot accuse people of trying to protect the board or being in love with the board (or whatever the fuck) just because they are sick of reading essentially the same post reworded over and over again from you.

Please - GET THIS INTO YOUR HEAD - the VAST MAJORITY on here have no love for the board and do not trust them.

BUT they can also accept that Wenger must take a good portion (steady Jayson/Simon/SWL ) of the blame for the current shit the playing staff are dishing up and do not think it is all the boards fault.

ok...delete US martins post

Huh?

[USMartin]

Christ, what a fucking stupid pointless thread... again...

Seriously, folks... no one on here has ANY EVIDENCE about anything the board may or may not have done. Period.

Marty, I don't wish to have a pop at you personally, mate - but you have to accept that you cannot accuse people of trying to protect the board or being in love with the board (or whatever the fuck) just because they are sick of reading essentially the same post reworded over and over again from you.

Please - GET THIS INTO YOUR HEAD - the VAST MAJORITY on here have no love for the board and do not trust them.

BUT they can also accept that Wenger must take a good portion (steady Jayson/Simon/SWL ) of the blame for the current shit the playing staff are dishing up and do not think it is all the boards fault.

I don't think it's all down to the Board either but I do think the problemas originate with the Board and that they have the fianl say on all matters (they can after all sack Mr. Wenger and no matter how much some want to believe otherwise he cannot sack them)

We don't have an eye witness or ear witness account at this point. that does not mean there is no case to be made and no proof to back it at all.

Simple questions - do you think O.J. Simpson killed his wife - yes or no? And why do you think that?

[DB10GOONER]

Christ, what a fucking stupid pointless thread... again...

Seriously, folks... no one on here has ANY EVIDENCE about anything the board may or may not have done. Period.

Marty, I don't wish to have a pop at you personally, mate - but you have to accept that you cannot accuse people of trying to protect the board or being in love with the board (or whatever the fuck) just because they are sick of reading essentially the same post reworded over and over again from you.

Please - GET THIS INTO YOUR HEAD - the VAST MAJORITY on here have no love for the board and do not trust them.

BUT they can also accept that Wenger must take a good portion (steady Jayson/Simon/SWL ) of the blame for the current shit the playing staff are dishing up and do not think it is all the boards fault.

I don't think it's all down to the Board either but I do think the problemas originate with the Board and that they have the fianl say on all matters (they can after all sack Mr. Wenger and no matter how much some want to believe otherwise he cannot sack them)

We don't have an eye witness or ear witness account at this point. that does not mean there is no case to be made and no proof to back it at all.

Simple questions - do you think O.J. Simpson killed his wife - yes or no? And why do you think that?

Martin, firstly thanks for addressing my post in a sane manner!

My point was though that you cannot accuse people of supporting the board because they won't accept your version of events as gospel without proof.

As far as OJ goes? He is innocent. A court of law found him innocent. What are you trying to imply here??!!!!

[USMartin]

Martin, firstly thanks for addressing my post in a sane manner!

My point was though that you cannot accuse people of supporting the board because they won't accept your version of events as gospel without proof.

As far as OJ goes? He is innocent. A court of law found him innocent. What are you trying to imply here??!!!!

Let me start at the end - I love your answer for that is the relevant answer in truth. You were not on the jusry and unless tyou saw him commit the act or other heinous acts your opinion should begin and end there. Well done sir.

But if you had an opinion eother way as most who ignore that distiction do I would suggest you would not have sufficient proof to come to that conclusion legally but that you might believe you do factually and might in fact have that much proof.

I think too many Gooners need to hear the Board say they did this or see some paper that said they did this or simply conclude they did not not.

I agree fully we do not have that absolute proof at this time and we do not have 100% incontrovertaible evidence other than that that this happening.

However that is a hell of long way from having no proof at all or no sufficient proof to suggest we shouldn't explore this further ourselves (as a supporter base) before it is too late to have any sort of influence over what may have happened and may still be happening.

I do not believe what I say is gospel truth. I do believe it is very much possible truth and that the eviidence based on the facts we know is far stronger for what I contend than many others here.

And given how important Arsenal is to each and every one of us and the stakes for Arsenal resulting from all this and thus for every one of us, that the fact that I might be right and there is real proof suggesting I might be or am in fact right and more of than most others offer here to the contrary should make simply want to know the facts more and better.

See I am not afraid I might be wrong at all. I have been wrong many times about many things But I am absolutely afraid I might be right about this, and we all should be afraid of that and not content to decide to be afraid only when it's well and truly too late.

And seriously, great answer on O.J.

[Henry Norris 1913]

I do not believe what I say is gospel truth. I do believe it is very much possible truth and that the eviidence based on the facts we know is far stronger for what I contend than many others here.

And given how important Arsenal is to each and every one of us and the stakes for Arsenal resulting from all this and thus for every one of us, that the fact that I might be right and there is real proof suggesting I might be or am in fact right and more of than most others offer here to the contrary should make simply want to know the facts more and better.

I love your ability to say one thing and somehow stretch it into a whole paragraph until it makes hardly any sense.

so what your saying is you don't even believe yourself ? all this is just possibility ? why call anyone thats sick of you protecting wenger a fool then?

[mcdowell42]

Just home from work and still no evidence except more drivel and longwinded posts that go round and round.

[mcdowell42]

Im going to go to bed now and i reckon when i log back on tomorrow evening after work there still wont be the slightest bit of evidence or proof that i have been asking for for the last 2 days from our friend because he has none.All talk no substance

Like I say you will get your proof, and Ignore it...like you did when you fiund Mr. Hill-Wood over the dead body in the alley since you didn't actually see the crime it couldn't have happened.

But when it isproven beyond nay sort of doubt you will say nothing then even because you won't want resposnibility for your unwillingness to try and fight to prevent it. You'll come up with some new rationalization or say nothing at all then.

Good god man you have lost it are you accusing hill wood of murder

[USMartin]

Im going to go to bed now and i reckon when i log back on tomorrow evening after work there still wont be the slightest bit of evidence or proof that i have been asking for for the last 2 days from our friend because he has none.All talk no substance

Like I say you will get your proof, and Ignore it...like you did when you fiund Mr. Hill-Wood over the dead body in the alley since you didn't actually see the crime it couldn't have happened.

But when it isproven beyond nay sort of doubt you will say nothing then even because you won't want resposnibility for your unwillingness to try and fight to prevent it. You'll come up with some new rationalization or say nothing at all then.

Good god man you have lost it are you accusing hill wood of murder

If that's your conclusion you are either stupid mad or ignorant. No one in accusing anyone of murder. I'm accusing you of ignoring all evidence in front of you unless its the infamous "smoking gun" and saying you'd be a shit policemen because if that were all they went on they would be no one in jail at all.

My point is that if you're only standard to stand up for Arsenal is some one on the Board actually they are fucking the club you will only stand upm when its too late and easy to satnd up and pretend you cared all along.

[USMartin]

I love your ability to say one thing and somehow stretch it into a whole paragraph until it makes hardly any sense.

so what your saying is you don't even believe yourself ? all this is just possibility ? why call anyone thats sick of you protecting wenger a fool then?

No I am saying that as I have maintained all along that I am not 100% certain of anything other than that the facts suggest that is genuine reason to be concerned now and over the last five years at how the Board and run Arsenal and why.

And the fact is this there is more evidence supporting what i bleiev than any of you because none of you can back up what you believe because when ever you're asked to you don't.

And when backing up what you say could shut me up once and for all you'd be fools not to do it...unless of course you can't.

[mcdowell42]

Im going to go to bed now and i reckon when i log back on tomorrow evening after work there still wont be the slightest bit of evidence or proof that i have been asking for for the last 2 days from our friend because he has none.All talk no substance

Like I say you will get your proof, and Ignore it...like you did when you fiund Mr. Hill-Wood over the dead body in the alley since you didn't actually see the crime it couldn't have happened.

But when it isproven beyond nay sort of doubt you will say nothing then even because you won't want resposnibility for your unwillingness to try and fight to prevent it. You'll come up with some new rationalization or say nothing at all then.

Good god man you have lost it are you accusing hill wood of murder

If that's your conclusion you are either stupid mad or ignorant. No one in accusing anyone of murder. I'm accusing you of ignoring all evidence in front of you unless its the infamous "smoking gun" and saying you'd be a shit policemen because if that were all they went on they would be no one in jail at all.

My point is that if you're only standard to stand up for Arsenal is some one on the Board actually they are fucking the club you will only stand upm when its too late and easy to satnd up and pretend you cared all along.

What evidence you moron you havent presented any because you dont have any.


Speak fucking english

[mcdowell42]

I love your ability to say one thing and somehow stretch it into a whole paragraph until it makes hardly any sense.

so what your saying is you don't even believe yourself ? all this is just possibility ? why call anyone thats sick of you protecting wenger a fool then?

No I am saying that as I have maintained all along that I am not 100% certain of anything other than that the facts suggest that is genuine reason to be concerned now and over the last five years at how the Board and run Arsenal and why.

And the fact is this there is more evidence supporting what i bleiev than any of you because none of you can back up what you believe because when ever you're asked to you don't.

And when backing up what you say could shut me up once and for all you'd be fools not to do it...unless of course you can't.

In order to have more evidence you had to have some evidence in the 1st place which you still havent posted on here.

[Babu]

I think too many Gooners need to hear the Board say they did this or see some paper that said they did this or simply conclude they did not not.

Evening Martin, and the rest of you on this thread too, of course.

I've known you a long time, from the times before SG, and you've always had this idea that the Board was 'bad', simplifying it.

Now, the Board have proved they are 'bad' because they sold out, and sold out to an American who no-one wanted at first.

OK, 1-0 to USMartin, after a very long and pretty dull 0-0 which lasted a few years.

Now I don't see what the point is now? The Board were bastards, they quite clearly lied to the fans when they said that moving to the new Stadium would not impact on the team. It did impact, very badly!

They quite clearly lied when they said they would never sell, and that they were 'Arsenal for Life'. ( OK, they didn't say exactly that, but they might as well have done. ), because they did sell.

Now 'the Board' is Kroenke, with Usmanov as a major shareholder. Both are NOT Arsenal. Both will never be Arsenal.

Why did they not sell Highbury? Well, I'm glad ( in a way ) that they didn't sell it, as it still belongs to 'the Arsenal' whatever that means. Otherwise it might have been turned into...a car park, a waste disposal plant, whatever, but now it is still there, and there is still a faint link to our glorious past.

Wenger has to take a share of the blame, even if he possibly wasn't directly involved in the plan for the years 2005 - 2011 - as he was present for all of it. If he didn't like it he could have walked, but he didn't. He accepted it, and went with it. Wenger is just as much to blame in the direction the Club has gone. We can't change it, we can only hope that Kroenke sees the problem and makes money available.

I just don't understand the argument any more. Really I don't.

The Board were *word censored*. FACT!
The Board sold up. FACT!
The Board lied. FACT!

Wenger was there, sitting on the right hand side. FACT!


Or is there something else that I have missed? The 'Board' is gone. Fiszman, Lady BS, DD, all of them. They've gone.

Sensible Question:

What do you think Kroenke will do with the Club this summer and in the next season? Will he invest? I happen to think he will - and invest big.

Why do I think this? Well, it's summer, and as has been the case every summer since 1974 I truly believe that next season will be the one where The Arsenal will win the League and Cup Double.

COYG!

[USMartin]

Evening Martin, and the rest of you on this thread too, of course.

Hey Babu...what up?

I've known you a long time, from the times before SG, and you've always had this idea that the Board was 'bad', simplifying it.

Now, the Board have proved they are 'bad' because they sold out, and sold out to an American who no-one wanted at first.

OK, 1-0 to USMartin, after a very long and pretty dull 0-0 which lasted a few years.

Over-simplfying things is always dangerous. I didn't think the baord were personally bad because I didn't know them perosnally. I did fell that putting their personal self-interest ahead of what was good for the club was and still is wrong. And actually felt this as early as 2000 and then back-tracked from those concerns for several years and happily supported the board for showing the ambition not to sell of players as some supporters even called for to finance these projects as early as then.

And it's not 1-0 to me, it's more like 100 million-nil to the Board now.

Now I don't see what the point is now? The Board were bastards, they quite clearly lied to the fans when they said that moving to the new Stadium would not impact on the team. It did impact, very badly!

They quite clearly lied when they said they would never sell, and that they were 'Arsenal for Life'. ( OK, they didn't say exactly that, but they might as well have done. ), because they did sell.

Now 'the Board' is Kroenke, with Usmanov as a major shareholder. Both are NOT Arsenal. Both will never be Arsenal.

The point is that the only way we fix this I fear is to put pressure on them and to challenge the integrity of their actions (Don't forget that Stan Kroenke has been a Board member from 2008 and has stated the he does not intend any changes in the current Board's make-up), and that likely means no major new investment if only to avoid further questions about the lack of spending prior to the club being sold.

We need to embarass these people enough to realize they only way they won't be embarassed is to invest the type of money the could now and could have since 2008 really.

Why did they not sell Highbury? Well, I'm glad ( in a way ) that they didn't sell it, as it still belongs to 'the Arsenal' whatever that means. Otherwise it might have been turned into...a car park, a waste disposal plant, whatever, but now it is still there, and there is still a faint link to our glorious past.

Sorry but that is just flat naive, Babs. Given the historical status of the East and West Stands that never would have happened, it would not have been allowed. These builgs would have ended up either a residential housing or commercial office property in every instance, with the only question being would they have been part of one whole property along with the North Bank and Clock End or broken up into sperate properties. That is about the only possibility to contemplate and given that they would be bought as one property its likely they would be sold as one too.

Dead wrong on this one I'm afraid Babu. Sorry...

Wenger has to take a share of the blame, even if he possibly wasn't directly involved in the plan for the years 2005 - 2011 - as he was present for all of it. If he didn't like it he could have walked, but he didn't. He accepted it, and went with it. Wenger is just as much to blame in the direction the Club has gone. We can't change it, we can only hope that Kroenke sees the problem and makes money available.

I just don't understand the argument any more. Really I don't.

The Board were c**ts. FACT!
The Board sold up. FACT!
The Board lied. FACT!

Wenger was there, sitting on the right hand side. FACT!


Or is there something else that I have missed? The 'Board' is gone. Fiszman, Lady BS, DD, all of them. They've gone.

Agree with a lot there, but there are two critical points

1) Agree on Mr. Wenger taking a share of the blame. But if you are paid millions by your employer where are you going to go in that instance? The real issue is would he have done the same things the same way if the Board hadn't acted as it did from 2005 forward?

2) No they are not gone. Mr Fiszman and Lady Bracewell-Smith are gone, one by choice, the other unavoidably so. As for David Dein he would probably return at the drop off a hat. But Peter Hill-Wood is still there as are the other Board members of recent years, so the idea that the Board is gone is a mistake, especially since Tsan Kroenke gave his approval to everything the Board did from 2008-now as a member of that same Board

Sensible Question:

What do you think Kroenke will do with the Club this summer and in the next season? Will he invest? I happen to think he will - and invest big.

Why do I think this? Well, it's summer, and as has been the case every summer since 1974 I truly believe that next season will be the one where The Arsenal will win the League and Cup Double.

COYG!

Actually that sounds more hopeful than sensible.

I'd like to agree but really all we have to go is his record on the Arsenal Board really and he hasn't pushed at all that any of us know of by rumour or fact for any deviations in the Board's policies, so I am skeptical frankly, especially since while he has not stated anything publically on his own behalf but Ivan Gazidis has assured he will not use debt levrage to finance his purchase of the club(he can't actually at this point) there is nothing to stop him issuing dividends and using that revenue to finance his purchase of his majority holding in the club, or to pay for any money borrowed to puchase the holding, and there have been no asuurances he won't do that.

After all if the "previous " Board could get away with what they have with minimal fan backlash why couldn't he too...other than maybe he's an American and not a born-and-bred "Arsenal Man"?

So unfortunately I am skeptical right now. Hopeful too, but more skeptical honestly about this.

[SteveO 35]

Serious question - can you name one tangible benefit that Gazidis has brought to the club ?

(pretty pictures on concourses and murals outside the stadium do not count )