Dalglish sacked... or maybe walked

[g88ner]

Thank you Frank.

So to conclude: if a team spends lots of cash, and fails like Liverpool then "money is no guarantee of success".

But if a team spends lots of money and succeeds, then "well of course they win, they spend all that money so wisely".

Right, glad we cleared that up then!

The glass half full brigade have every base covered I see!

We're never going to agree, but I'm not sure why. My opinion is logical.

Money IS a massive advantage. That's why Europe's most successful clubs are also the richest. You may disagree, but that's NOT a coincidence. I'm amazed that's even up for debate.

And yes, if a rich team spends badly (Liverpool buying Carroll, Henderson, Dpwning, Adam, etc.) then they've not made the most of their financial advantage and that gives other clubs a chance to compete better.

But if Citeh, for example, spend well on Tevez, Aguero, Silva, etc. then that consolidates their financial advantage and are therefore more difficult to compete with.

That's logical.

If we can't buy the great players our rivals can, then we have to hope we can bridge that gap somewhere i.e. more efficient spending, better tactics, etc.

Agree to disagree I suppose, but I still don't see what we're debating.

[MegaGooner]

The King is dead. Long live the King.

Hope he back soon.

King Kenny

[Babatunde]

Thank you Frank.

So to conclude: if a team spends lots of cash, and fails like Liverpool then "money is no guarantee of success".

But if a team spends lots of money and succeeds, then "well of course they win, they spend all that money so wisely".

Right, glad we cleared that up then!

The glass half full brigade have every base covered I see!

We're never going to agree, but I'm not sure why. My opinion is logical.

Money IS a massive advantage. That's why Europe's most successful clubs are also the richest. You may disagree, but that's NOT a coincidence. I'm amazed that's even up for debate.

And yes, if a rich team spends badly (Liverpool buying Carroll, Henderson, Dpwning, Adam, etc.) then they've not made the most of their financial advantage and that gives other clubs a chance to compete better.

But if Citeh, for example, spend well on Tevez, Aguero, Silva, etc. then that consolidates their financial advantage and are therefore more difficult to compete with.

That's logical.

If we can't buy the great players our rivals can, then we have to hope we can bridge that gap somewhere i.e. more efficient spending, better tactics, etc.

Agree to disagree I suppose, but I still don't see what we're debating.

Someone forgot to tell wee Montpellier in France about your wee theory there then eh?

Do you know how small-time Montpellier are? How on earth are the ahead of the richest club in world football and on the verge of a French league title?

How on earth have Dortmund - with a wage bill lower than Aston Villa please note - managed to usurp the mighty Bayern Munich back to back for the past two years?

If you look at Schalke in that same league, bankrolled by Gazprom and where do they figure?

This money argument is fictitious smokescreen bullshit, used by Gooners to justify the wholesale managerial and directorial incompetence at our club.

Also, why have you used it as FACT that we cannot compete for the top players? That is a myth. We refuse to compete for them - but we can. I don't know if you have done the research, but Arsenal are the fourth richest club in European football. Therefore, please explain to me what your rationale is for claiming we cannot sign £35 mil players, when clubs below Arsenal on that list such as the Scousers do it. Why can we not spend the £18 mil on Mata when the Spuds, who have nowhere near our income, have spent that on shitter players? Why can Aston Villa spend £24 million on a centre-forward and yet I am hearing we cannot go out and compete for top players?
FFS Bolton Wanderes have spent more on a centre forward (£12 mil Elmander) than we have in ages.
Oh hold on, I see that even Sunderland spent £16 million on signing a striker....


Any idea what kind of players Arsenal could afford to sign?
Why are you obfuscating the issue by pretending that we have to develop and polish rough gems, when that is, with respect, bollocks?

As soon as you can explain to me how teams with no regular Champions League income i.e. Sunderland, Spurs, Everton (£16 mil Fellaini ), Liverpool et al can spend sizeable amounts on players they require, and we, with the highest matchday revenue in Europe and those cash reserves cannot?

Why have you stated as fact that we cannot compete for the top players?

We could have signed Villa a year before he joined Barca. Wenger is too unambitious.
Mata was in the bag, Again, muppet in charge fucked it.
Frank Ribery could have been an Arsenal player - Wenger dithered over the £18 mil fee.
Arjen Robben was being bandied about for £14 mil when Real got rid - what, couldn't afford to put a bid in? Or was Arsene too busy spunking on his Gervinho poster?

Even now, if we wanted to bid for Higuain to play up front, we could easily do it.
We could stick in a bid for Javi Martinez for £20 mil.
We could go and sign Vertonghen.

But oh no.

It's 'we cannot compete for the top players'. Pfffft

[clockender1]

Someone forgot to tell wee Montpellier in France about your wee theory there then eh?

Do you know how small-time Montpellier are? How on earth are the ahead of the richest club in world football and on the verge of a French league title?

How on earth have Dortmund - with a wage bill lower than Aston Villa please note - managed to usurp the mighty Bayern Munich back to back for the past two years?

If you look at Schalke in that same league, bankrolled by Gazprom and where do they figure?

which proves the point it's not how much you spend, it's how you spend it.

and Ligue 1 and the bundesliga are hardly a realistic comparison to the Premiership, small clubs often do well there due to the low wages - Nante and Wolfsburg won not so long ago didn't they ?

look at Italy and Spain, how often do small clubs win their ? - never.

bogus argument + dubious premise = FAIL.

[augie]

To be fair to baba the central ethos of his argument, that we could afford to buy top players if the people running the club went that way, is probably on the money (no pun intended) We have one of the lowest net spends in the premiership since it began and yet a disproportinately high wage bill considering our lack of success and how average/shit many of our players actually are The people running our club, mainly wenger, have chosen to go down this "we dont buy superstars" route which is all well and good if you dont need them but right now we need to show rvp, the fans, potential sponsors and our rivals that we do mean business and we will be going all out to bring success back to the club again.

I think, and correct me if I am wrong, what baba is trying to say is that clubs like dortmund, montpellier, lille etc are doing well cos they are being managed and coached well whilst we, as a supposedly big club, are neither spending money nor being coached well so to just focus on the financial argument is ignoring the aspects of the managements jobs that is not being done at an acceptable level

[SteveO 35]

To be fair to baba the central ethos of his argument, that we could afford to buy top players if the people running the club went that way, is probably on the money (no pun intended) We have one of the lowest net spends in the premiership since it began and yet a disproportinately high wage bill considering our lack of success and how average/shit many of our players actually are The people running our club, mainly wenger, have chosen to go down this "we dont buy superstars" route which is all well and good if you dont need them but right now we need to show rvp, the fans, potential sponsors and our rivals that we do mean business and we will be going all out to bring success back to the club again.

I think, and correct me if I am wrong, what baba is trying to say is that clubs like dortmund, montpellier, lille etc are doing well cos they are being managed and coached well whilst we, as a supposedly big club, are neither spending money nor being coached well so to just focus on the financial argument is ignoring the aspects of the managements jobs that is not being done at an acceptable level

Another one of those little cringeworthy puns "Arsene doesn't buy superstars, he makes them" - I remember seeing that on a T-shirt in the Armoury a couple of years back - yuk. Right up there with "Who'd heard of Fabregas and Nasri" and "Real Fans Have Patience"

Anyone feeling wound up yet ?

[Block_5_Gooner]

It appears that behind the scene that the man pulling the strings and advising the owners is David Dein. It's no coincidence that he's been seen at several matches at Anfield this year.

Whether he will take on vacant CEO's job still remains to be seen. That would be odd if he did as he's an ardent Arsenal supporter, still attends games and holidays with his friend Arsene. Isn't he still involved with Red & white Holdings?

[flash gunner]

SteveO i have to pull you up the banner was 'Real fans have Real patience' it was a pun after reports of Wenger flirting with Real Madrid after being criticised by some supporters

[flash gunner]

It appears that behind the scene that the man pulling the strings and advising the owners is David Dein. It's no coincidence that he's been seen at several matches at Anfield this year.

Whether he will take on vacant CEO's job still remains to be seen. That would be odd if he did as he's an ardent Arsenal supporter, still attends games and holidays with his friend Arsene. Isn't he still involved with Red & white Holdings?

Arsene to Liverpool

Please make it happen

[arseofacrow]

SteveO i have to pull you up the banner was 'Real fans have Real patience' it was a pun after reports of Wenger flirting with Real Madrid after being criticised by some supporters

if they're going to do puns,at least get I H H involved.

[Block_5_Gooner]

It appears that behind the scene that the man pulling the strings and advising the owners is David Dein. It's no coincidence that he's been seen at several matches at Anfield this year.

Whether he will take on vacant CEO's job still remains to be seen. That would be odd if he did as he's an ardent Arsenal supporter, still attends games and holidays with his friend Arsene. Isn't he still involved with Red & white Holdings?

Arsene to Liverpool

Please make it happen

That thought crossed my mind too.

[SteveO 35]

SteveO i have to pull you up the banner was 'Real fans have Real patience' it was a pun after reports of Wenger flirting with Real Madrid after being criticised by some supporters

Thanks mate - of course if someone could put up a picture or post a link to the thing, I'd remember it better. Its taking on mythical proportions now

By the way, people seem to think that there wouldn't be enough support for a pro-Wenger march and a repeat of that banner next Summer. I guarantee that if we scrape top 4 again next season that there will be. If anyone doubts the strength of the Wenger love-in then come and have a beer with me in Block 2 and I'll introduce you to my old man and the Wenger fan club

[Supagoon]

Money always prevails.

So Dortmund have challenged, thank **** for that. But Over 10 years do expect Dortmund or Bayern to win more?

PSG? How long did it take city to win the title. PSG have a tougher time convincing top players to come to a more undersirable league. PSG will

Only Malaga long term will now be able to compete with Madrid and Barca. And they will!

Why the hell would some like David Villa Choose us over barca, if we both offered the same money. Before in 2008, we still had a good reputation. Now we have a reputation where we win nothing, and have absolutely no ambition of changing it. That of course is 100% true.

Truth is wether we get a new manager or not the League and the CL will not come back to London with Usmanov or Kroenke making significant investment. Does not mean that Wenger and the board can get away with charging the highest prices in the country to pay for Bendtner, Arshavin and Chamakh to swan around.

I'd love to all the leagues in europe far more competitive, with different winners, but without a wage cap, we won't be seeing those days.

In order to do a Liverpool with Kenny and Commolli blowing 100M, you need a lot of blind faith. Rich Owners usually get their own in. Thats what we saw when the arabs booted Mark Hughes out, and the FSG seized the opportunity to prove to the Liverpool fans that the King couldn't do it.

Dang Baba it ain't rocket science. Spend well, rich or poor.

[Red Member]

It appears that behind the scene that the man pulling the strings and advising the owners is David Dein. It's no coincidence that he's been seen at several matches at Anfield this year.

Whether he will take on vacant CEO's job still remains to be seen. That would be odd if he did as he's an ardent Arsenal supporter, still attends games and holidays with his friend Arsene. Isn't he still involved with Red & white Holdings?

Arsene to Liverpool

Please make it happen

thats a good one, as if Arsene at his age would really fancy moving to Liverpool

[SteveO 35]

Just been in contact with my source in Liverpool and apparently Martinez is set to be offered the job although no one wants him!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18110974

And Dave Whelan confirms that he has given the Mickeys permission to speak to Martinez. Incredible - a supposed big club offering a job to a man whose sole achievement is to get his team playing between March and May and scraping survival in the top flight.

Good old Mickeys - long may they continue to keep treading on that same rake