Have you ever been so disillusioned ?

[A dallying Gus Caesar]

No I have not. Depressing days.......and no sign that they will be stopping soon.

[DarylAFC]

These last few years since leaving the beautiful Highbury have been shite. The lack of atmosphere at the grove, the constant lies and Wenger going from hero to tosser.

Just thinkng outloud, but if Wenger pissed off, the Emirates was called Ashburton Grove (To make it less of a corporate bitch) and we won a few FA cups and League cups, possibly a Europa league (All we'll realistically win), anyone think that things could improve? I doubt it, but it seems the best/only way so far

[highburyJD]

we can win a cup under any manager
if Leeds beat Chelski (hardly impossible)
we could win the league cup without facing an established Prem team
(forgot Reading were Prem for a sec - now added established)

[StuartL]

we can win a cup under any manager
if Leeds beat Chelski (hardly impossible)
we could win the league cup without facing an established Prem team
(forgot Reading were Prem for a sec - now added established)

Winning the league cup means nothing I'm afraid, other than give the board the reason to reward Wenker with a another contract.

Liverfool won it last year and they are still Dogshit this season, not challenging at the top and doubtful of getting into europe.

Birmingham won it the year they got relegated and they are dogshit.

Us winning it would not have the impetus that doing that in 1987 beating Liverfool gave us, it would just give the Wenker cultist ammunition to say "told you, Arsene knows"

(edited year to 1987 due to public demand)

[Henry Norris 1913]

'87 stu

[highburyJD]

I wouldn't.swap.league cup for any other trophy, even the virtual one for CL qualification
but it def wouldn't "mean nothing" to me..

[MK Gould]

It is very difficult to seriously say you are disillusioned with European football every year, top 4 finish every year, attractive football (most of the time), big crowds etc.....

Maybe you need a defeat to Wrexham or York to put things into perspective. A 1-4 home defeat Ipswich. Losing 0-5 at WHL? Maybe a flirt with relegation (like in the mid-1970's) would make us appreciate a top 4 finish? I'd been going regularly for 14 years before I saw my first league title. I tell you, all the better for it. It meant so much more becuase of the gap!

Oh, and I forgot the 13,000 crowd who turned up to one of my first games. Or the 15,000 v Norwich at Christmas 1979..... Highbury was called a library long before the Grove!

And we only won one trophy (the FA Cup) in the 15 years between 1972 and 1987.....

So difficult to be that disillusioned really!

[northbank123]

I don't buy into the LC being an excuse for the board to reward Wenger with a new contract. He's still backed by the majority of Gooners (especially match-goers) and the board have made it clear they don't give a fuck what the fans think or want and also that he has a job for life.

The only way that'll change is if we don't get top 4, that might make them reconsider. Until then, he's delivering them handsome profits so they'll give him a new contract regardless of what the fans want. Simply put, they don't need to use the LC as an 'excuse' because they're not accountable to the fans and besides the majority of fans are delighted with the work he's doing anyway.

If we continue to get top 4, he'll continue to get offered new deals.
If we don't, the board may well consider whether or not to extend his deal, regardless of whether or not we win the LC.

[augie]

Those defeats needed to bring perspective to the argument, can it include an 8-2 hammering at old shatford which was the worst defeat in the history of our club ? Or maybe the first team to blow a 4 goal lead in the history of the premier league ?

[augie]

I don't buy into the LC being an excuse for the board to reward Wenger with a new contract. He's still backed by the majority of Gooners (especially match-goers) and the board have made it clear they don't give a fuck what the fans think or want and also that he has a job for life.

The only way that'll change is if we don't get top 4, that might make them reconsider. Until then, he's delivering them handsome profits so they'll give him a new contract regardless of what the fans want. Simply put, they don't need to use the LC as an 'excuse' because they're not accountable to the fans and besides the majority of fans are delighted with the work he's doing anyway.

If we continue to get top 4, he'll continue to get offered new deals.
If we don't, the board may well consider whether or not to extend his deal, regardless of whether or not we win the LC.

So you agree that failing to finish in the top 4 for a season might actually be better for the club in the long run ?

[goonersid]

I wouldn't.swap.league cup for any other trophy, even the virtual one for CL qualification
but it def wouldn't "mean nothing" to me..

There are so many double negatives in your post that, I don't know if I don't not know I don't understand what you are trying to say or not.
I will assume it goes along the lines "I love Wenger and think he's great"

[augie]

I wouldn't.swap.league cup for any other trophy, even the virtual one for CL qualification
but it def wouldn't "mean nothing" to me..

There are so many double negatives in your post that, I don't know if I don't not know I don't understand what you are trying to say or not.
I will assume it goes along the lines "I love Wenger and think he's great"

Not exactly going out on a limb there sid are you ?

[northbank123]

I don't buy into the LC being an excuse for the board to reward Wenger with a new contract. He's still backed by the majority of Gooners (especially match-goers) and the board have made it clear they don't give a fuck what the fans think or want and also that he has a job for life.

The only way that'll change is if we don't get top 4, that might make them reconsider. Until then, he's delivering them handsome profits so they'll give him a new contract regardless of what the fans want. Simply put, they don't need to use the LC as an 'excuse' because they're not accountable to the fans and besides the majority of fans are delighted with the work he's doing anyway.

If we continue to get top 4, he'll continue to get offered new deals.
If we don't, the board may well consider whether or not to extend his deal, regardless of whether or not we win the LC.

So you agree that failing to finish in the top 4 for a season might actually be better for the club in the long run ?

Quite possibly mate. It's the most likely occurrence to get rid of Wenger and I see that as long-term progression.

It's a difficult one from a personal point of view because no matter how shit we are and how much we lack direction Arsenal will always be a major part of my life on a weekly basis and one that I do my utmost to derive enjoyment from. So I am still delighted when we scrape past QPR from an offside goal in the last minute against 10 men, and I can never bring myself to be glad we dropped points or that Everton or Spurs especially are flying. So while I think it might be good for the club I can't really say I want us to finish 5th per se. Especially because Wenger would quite possibly see himself as the only man who could deliver the Virtual Trophy again and the board would still quite probably go along with that.

[highburyJD]

I find it strange people are so sure in their assessment of the future
Wenger used to be a superstar manager delivering over and above
now he's hovering around par, that makes him a good manager - lots do worse
consistent CL football is not amazing over achieving, any more than it's negligent failure
its just about good enough, no more no less

I wouldn't consider trading away good enough on the gamble of an unpredictable alternative
My personal hope is of course that Wenger refinds his mojo and the team goes from strength to strength
seems insane to hope we do badly,
in order to hope the board fires Wenger,
in order to hope a the manager you want is hired,
in order to hope he at least delivers good enough,
in order to hope we do even better than that...

Feels a huge stretch to me.
Good enough, without borrowing money,
made perfect sense whilst the front loaded stadium sponsorship deal was/is in place
With those renewals coming up it's vital our profile is at it's peak.
a) we should be willing to gamble a bit now
b) hoping for failure now makes no sense, the damage could way outlast this regime.

[northbank123]

I find it strange people are so sure in their assessment of the future
Wenger used to be a superstar manager delivering over and above
now he's hovering around par, that makes him a good manager - lots do worse
consistent CL football is not amazing over achieving, any more than it's negligent failure
its just about good enough, no more no less

Exactly, that's all Wenger strives for nowadays. It's fairly obvious that he thinks that what even you describe as merely "good enough" is a huge success, so much so he invented a trophy to justify it. I'm tired of a regime that dresses up mediocrity as continued excellence. There is currently no footballing ambition whatsoever at the club. Ambition does not include Wenger thinking that we can still win the title from 11 points behind in mid-November or Gazidis shamelessly declaring that in two years we'll be able to compete with anybody in the world financially.

To be honest describing it as mediocrity is pretty generous anyway. We're constantly told we can't compete with Chelsea and City because of their financial advantage, but on that note what right do Everton, Newcastle and even Spurs have to compete with us? And the gap between us and the rest is a lot less than it is between us and the best. We should by all rights be finishing streets ahead of those teams.