As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Den10kamp wrote:anyone know if theres a way of finding out extactly how much shares R+W holdings have and need ?..... im want to start tracking down these satellite share holders and persuading them to sell to Alisher usmanov.... it cannot be much now ....
there are 62,217 Arsenal shares
the current price per share is around £16,000
Stan Kroenke, through Kroenke Sports Enterprises, owns 41,581 shares, or 66.83%
Alisher Usmanov, through Red & White Holdings and in partnership with Farhad Moshiri, owns 18,645, or 29.96%
Usmanov needs 21 more shares to get to 18,666, or 30%
Den10kamp wrote:anyone know if theres a way of finding out extactly how much shares R+W holdings have and need ?..... im want to start tracking down these satellite share holders and persuading them to sell to Alisher usmanov.... it cannot be much now ....
Are you serious?
Yes
You don't think that maybe, just maybe, if Red and White wanted those shares they would have sought to track down the shareholders themselves with far greater effect than you?
lol dude, i was thinking of knocking on doors and having chats with these owners
honestly no i wasnt, just feel helpless as a supporter with these spin doctors and crooks currently in charge of 'OUR' club we are stagnating badly now
good summary from phil wall-angry of islington yesterday
A quick Arsenal share update. I was prompted to do this today by the fact that there are updated figures on Arsenal.com, and for the first time since 20 December the number of shares officially held by Alisher Usmanov has gone up – in this case by eight, from 18,637 to 18,645.
To recap the situation:
there are 62,217 Arsenal shares
the current price per share is around £16,000
Stan Kroenke, through Kroenke Sports Enterprises, owns 41,581 shares, or 66.83%
Alisher Usmanov, through Red & White Holdings and in partnership with Farhad Moshiri, owns 18,645, or 29.96%
Usmanov needs 21 more shares to get to 18,666, or 30%
So Stan has a majority and can do much as he pleases, including appointing whoever he likes to the Board. No one else on the Board owns any shares now, having sold them to Stan. In fact, as far as I am aware, the only Arsenal employee who is a shareholder in any capacity is Liam Brady, who owns one share – and even he is leaving! This is a unique point in Arsenal’s history, where the club is controlled by a single person and no one else there has any owning interest whatsoever.
Leaving Stan out (he’s never around anyway), Piers Morgan has more shares than the Arsenal Board!
Darren Dein, the agent instrumental in moving several Arsenal players away from the club, has more shares than the Arsenal Board!
Strange situation.
Meanwhile Alisher Usmanov continues to buy shares in small numbers. Why?
Until last summer he hoped that by getting to 30 per cent he could force the club to share all its financial information with him if he got to 30 per cent and was considered an ‘owner’ under Premier League rules. But the Premier League changed the rules, so why does he keep buying shares? It’s not because he can then make a full takeover bid, because a) he can do that anytime he likes, as could anyone, regardless of shareholding, and b) he won’t be forced to make a bid at 30 per cent because it’s at the discretion of the Takeover Panel and they won’t enforce that when there is already a majority owner in place.
So, possible reasons for carrying on buying:
He wants to get to 30 per cent and then mount a legal challenge to get the right to look at all the books anyway, regardless of the PL rule change.
He wants 30 per cent purely for the symbolic notion that it sounds bigger than 29 per cent (or even 29.96)
He’s got this far and just thinks, sod it, it’s small change anyway, might as well carry on to my original target.
He’s just doing it to distract from some other activity. What other activity? The logical answer to that is a deal with Stan to buy the lot.
I don’t for one minute think Usmanov will make a move during the season, because he’ll be accused by everyone of destabilising the club and distracting it from the (fourth place) trophy chase. So I think whatever happens – if anything happens – will happen in June.
By then Usmanov will have sufficient shares lined up to take him past 30 per cent, if he doesn’t already. Then he can decide whether to stick on 30 per cent and agitate to be given Board representation, access to books, etc, or he can make a deal with Stan to purchase Stan’s 66 per cent. Or both.
Perhaps he already has a deal with Stan. Stan’s never sold a share in a sports club, but that doesn’t mean he never will.
One thing is certain: Usmanov is still buying shares and hasn’t given up the idea of owning Arsenal. Is he prepared to pay over the odds if Stan pushes it? Is he prepared to wait as long as Stan will wait? Find out in June.
But if you think it would be a great idea to get rid of Kroenke and replace him with Usmanov, you need to remember:
it’s easy for Usmanov to make promises when he’s not the owner, just like opposition political parties do
no one know Usmanov’s real motives for owning Arsenal, we can only guess
no one in Arsenal history has ever owned 66 per cent before; if a single person owns 100 per cent the club becomes their toy, and the Arsenal tradition of plurality is gone (we’ve already lost ‘custodianship’ from the Board)
I’m not saying Usmanov would be necessarily bad. I’m just saying it would be unfortunate to find out he is when he owns everything.
georgeknows89 wrote:good summary from phil wall-angry of islington yesterday
A quick Arsenal share update. I was prompted to do this today by the fact that there are updated figures on Arsenal.com, and for the first time since 20 December the number of shares officially held by Alisher Usmanov has gone up – in this case by eight, from 18,637 to 18,645.
To recap the situation:
there are 62,217 Arsenal shares
the current price per share is around £16,000
Stan Kroenke, through Kroenke Sports Enterprises, owns 41,581 shares, or 66.83%
Alisher Usmanov, through Red & White Holdings and in partnership with Farhad Moshiri, owns 18,645, or 29.96%
Usmanov needs 21 more shares to get to 18,666, or 30%
So Stan has a majority and can do much as he pleases, including appointing whoever he likes to the Board. No one else on the Board owns any shares now, having sold them to Stan. In fact, as far as I am aware, the only Arsenal employee who is a shareholder in any capacity is Liam Brady, who owns one share – and even he is leaving! This is a unique point in Arsenal’s history, where the club is controlled by a single person and no one else there has any owning interest whatsoever.
Leaving Stan out (he’s never around anyway), Piers Morgan has more shares than the Arsenal Board!
Darren Dein, the agent instrumental in moving several Arsenal players away from the club, has more shares than the Arsenal Board!
Strange situation.
Meanwhile Alisher Usmanov continues to buy shares in small numbers. Why?
Until last summer he hoped that by getting to 30 per cent he could force the club to share all its financial information with him if he got to 30 per cent and was considered an ‘owner’ under Premier League rules. But the Premier League changed the rules, so why does he keep buying shares? It’s not because he can then make a full takeover bid, because a) he can do that anytime he likes, as could anyone, regardless of shareholding, and b) he won’t be forced to make a bid at 30 per cent because it’s at the discretion of the Takeover Panel and they won’t enforce that when there is already a majority owner in place.
So, possible reasons for carrying on buying:
He wants to get to 30 per cent and then mount a legal challenge to get the right to look at all the books anyway, regardless of the PL rule change.
He wants 30 per cent purely for the symbolic notion that it sounds bigger than 29 per cent (or even 29.96)
He’s got this far and just thinks, sod it, it’s small change anyway, might as well carry on to my original target.
He’s just doing it to distract from some other activity. What other activity? The logical answer to that is a deal with Stan to buy the lot.
I don’t for one minute think Usmanov will make a move during the season, because he’ll be accused by everyone of destabilising the club and distracting it from the (fourth place) trophy chase. So I think whatever happens – if anything happens – will happen in June.
By then Usmanov will have sufficient shares lined up to take him past 30 per cent, if he doesn’t already. Then he can decide whether to stick on 30 per cent and agitate to be given Board representation, access to books, etc, or he can make a deal with Stan to purchase Stan’s 66 per cent. Or both.
Perhaps he already has a deal with Stan. Stan’s never sold a share in a sports club, but that doesn’t mean he never will.
One thing is certain: Usmanov is still buying shares and hasn’t given up the idea of owning Arsenal. Is he prepared to pay over the odds if Stan pushes it? Is he prepared to wait as long as Stan will wait? Find out in June.
But if you think it would be a great idea to get rid of Kroenke and replace him with Usmanov, you need to remember:
it’s easy for Usmanov to make promises when he’s not the owner, just like opposition political parties do
no one know Usmanov’s real motives for owning Arsenal, we can only guess
no one in Arsenal history has ever owned 66 per cent before; if a single person owns 100 per cent the club becomes their toy, and the Arsenal tradition of plurality is gone (we’ve already lost ‘custodianship’ from the Board)
I’m not saying Usmanov would be necessarily bad. I’m just saying it would be unfortunate to find out he is when he owns everything.
There ya go Flash - that's the one! Blog and finances!!
The bottom line is that as long as we remain under the control of this current regime (kroenke, wenker phw etc) then we are finished as a major force in the domestic game never mind the european game (which is why we moved to the new stadium isnt it ?)
Will things be any better under usmanov ? Who knows but quite frankly I am willing to accept anyone buying our club now in the hope that they will shake the club out of this malaise and instill some ambition again.
Usmanov is playing a waiting game and for business reasons I can understand that as with every failure the share prices will, in theory, drop in value. However I am a supporter of the club and want change yesterday never mind today cos I fear that by the time we instigate change (and I include wenker in that) we will be so far off the pace that it will take the club years to catch up on it's (former) rivals Surely usmanov can see that too ?
I have said this before but will say it again.....right now it isnt the lack of ambition or the shitiness of some of the players that gets to me, but it is the growing fear with every single day that things are not going to change anytime soon and that we will see kroenke and wenker (in some role) in charge for many many years yet
augie wrote:The bottom line is that as long as we remain under the control of this current regime (kroenke, wenker phw etc) then we are finished as a major force in the domestic game never mind the european game (which is why we moved to the new stadium isnt it ?)
Will things be any better under usmanov ? Who knows but quite frankly I am willing to accept anyone buying our club now in the hope that they will shake the club out of this malaise and instill some ambition again.
That first line is absofuckinglutely true, augie. Nail on the fucking head.
I was always against Jabba taking over tbh. Always thought it would sully us to have a crook running the club but to be honest I am now so dissilusioned with Arsene and wiggy and Prince Philip Hill-Wood that I'd almost welcome Gary fucking Glitter to the club if he would sort out the fucking place!
This forum has been historically split mostly between people that blame our shitness on Wenger and people that blame it on the Board. The reality is they are both to blame and both need to be removed and replaced.
Bring on Usmanov I say. Providing he never tries to leverage us, things just couldn't get worse so why not try him?
Kroenke's hand is played but dont think he is about to walk away from Arsenal ,the club has cash in the bank and has very manageable debts.
His interest is in the long term TV rights ,nothing else and that's potentially much much more than the current overpriced shares .There's only 3 percent left in the market anyway and the majority are 1/2 shareholders like my son who has two. but the price for these remaining shares will continue to be strong until this is resolved .
On things for sure ,under the current regime we will continue to stockpile cash and bumble along .
We have NO assurance Usmanov would be any better but we can be reasonable certain he couldn't invest any less than the board currently do in players ,which is nothing !
indeed sausage fingers may not be better, but we will never know unless he gets a chance. we are on the slow road to shite under the curent regime. unless a change is made this will continue.
augie wrote:The bottom line is that as long as we remain under the control of this current regime (kroenke, wenker phw etc) then we are finished as a major force in the domestic game never mind the european game (which is why we moved to the new stadium isnt it ?)
Will things be any better under usmanov ? Who knows but quite frankly I am willing to accept anyone buying our club now in the hope that they will shake the club out of this malaise and instill some ambition again.
Usmanov is playing a waiting game and for business reasons I can understand that as with every failure the share prices will, in theory, drop in value. However I am a supporter of the club and want change yesterday never mind today cos I fear that by the time we instigate change (and I include wenker in that) we will be so far off the pace that it will take the club years to catch up on it's (former) rivals Surely usmanov can see that too ?
I have said this before but will say it again.....right now it isnt the lack of ambition or the shitiness of some of the players that gets to me, but it is the growing fear with every single day that things are not going to change anytime soon and that we will see kroenke and wenker (in some role) in charge for many many years yet
Totally agree Augie , exactly as i see it , current board and Wenger , not going anywhere
augie wrote:The bottom line is that as long as we remain under the control of this current regime (kroenke, wenker phw etc) then we are finished as a major force in the domestic game never mind the european game (which is why we moved to the new stadium isnt it ?)
Will things be any better under usmanov ? Who knows but quite frankly I am willing to accept anyone buying our club now in the hope that they will shake the club out of this malaise and instill some ambition again.
Usmanov is playing a waiting game and for business reasons I can understand that as with every failure the share prices will, in theory, drop in value. However I am a supporter of the club and want change yesterday never mind today cos I fear that by the time we instigate change (and I include wenker in that) we will be so far off the pace that it will take the club years to catch up on it's (former) rivals Surely usmanov can see that too ?
I have said this before but will say it again.....right now it isnt the lack of ambition or the shitiness of some of the players that gets to me, but it is the growing fear with every single day that things are not going to change anytime soon and that we will see kroenke and wenker (in some role) in charge for many many years yet
As mentioned already HIT NAIL HEAD, ive heard the club read this forum ... i hope they are reading this, they will not win
augie wrote:The bottom line is that as long as we remain under the control of this current regime (kroenke, wenker phw etc) then we are finished as a major force in the domestic game never mind the european game (which is why we moved to the new stadium isnt it ?)
Will things be any better under usmanov ? Who knows but quite frankly I am willing to accept anyone buying our club now in the hope that they will shake the club out of this malaise and instill some ambition again.
That first line is absofuckinglutely true, augie. Nail on the fucking head.
I was always against Jabba taking over tbh. Always thought it would sully us to have a crook running the club but to be honest I am now so dissilusioned with Arsene and wiggy and Prince Philip Hill-Wood that I'd almost welcome Gary fucking Glitter to the club if he would sort out the fucking place!
This forum has been historically split mostly between people that blame our shitness on Wenger and people that blame it on the Board. The reality is they are both to blame and both need to be removed and replaced.
Bring on Usmanov I say. Providing he never tries to leverage us, things just couldn't get worse so why not try him?
Somewhere out there in the good old US there is a guy stroking himself silly
For me there is no doubt that the sacking of Dein and finally bringing in the Kronk has left Arsenal as a has been. Yes Wenger has made many mistakes but the success was there for all to see in the Dein years. He got us Bergkamp which sparked the most amazing next 10 years.
Is it possible for Piers Morgan (or anyone else who owns shares) to get together with Red and White to become a consortium (or whatever the correct term is) purely to get to 30% so that, if that was the intention, a legal challange to the recently changed rules could be made ?
But what we will have left is not the team to take us anywhere.
Gazidis? Kroenke who is indifferent about football, PHW is not well, the board have been leaning on Wenger so long they're too reliant.
Only if the football club is bought by the right party will we actually improve as a club. A new manager may improve aspects of our team like our defending but we'll always be shopping on the cheap, and top 4 is all we could expect.
