THE WENGER THREAD

[Swifty]

9 years I've waited for a trophy, 9 bloody years and if he signs a new contarct the day after we (hopefully) win it then the goodness will be gone out of it for me. Typical

What if he signs a day before we go out of the cup?

Even he wouldn't have the gall!!!

[1989]

[Block93]

I think it's a mistake to judge success solely on what you win. At the end of the day, only one team can win the Premier League and only one can win the CL each season, and the latter has become even more unattainable, with the likes of PSG, Man City & Co busting the Fifa Fair Play rules into oblivion. (And then there's the really good teams in it as well').

The Emirates took probably five years of potential titles, but it is the envy of all. But, even so, during the barren times, there have been so many 'if onlys' and near misses....CL final in Paris, Bendtner's miss in Barcelona, the Birmingham City cock-up, Van Persie's miss v Milan, Eboue's mistimed challenge, Ramsey's injury and the awful penalty against Gibbs in the same game. The only bit of really good luck I can recall is Wigan holding out against Man City last week.

But it's still easier to get a ticket at Chelsea (capacity 41,000) than Arsenal .

Wenger has been immense, obviously through his first few years, but even during the last nine. Sixteen years of continuous CL football is success in my book. Capacity crowds, even against lesser teams. Some brilliantly memorable games each season. I go to loads of football as well as to Arsenal, but going to the Emirates has never got boring, there's always a great sense of anticipation.

I understand why lots of people are frustrated, but sometimes you just have to appreciate what you've got. We're in much better place than most, and just need a bit more luck occasionally.

Sorry to disagree with most of you, but there you are.

[augie]

Bad luck isn't the reason why we have over £120m sitting in the bank but second rate strikers on the pitch

[BFG4]

I think it's a mistake to judge success solely on what you win. At the end of the day, only one team can win the Premier League and only one can win the CL each season, and the latter has become even more unattainable, with the likes of PSG, Man City & Co busting the Fifa Fair Play rules into oblivion. (And then there's the really good teams in it as well').

The Emirates took probably five years of potential titles, but it is the envy of all. But, even so, during the barren times, there have been so many 'if onlys' and near misses....CL final in Paris, Bendtner's miss in Barcelona, the Birmingham City cock-up, Van Persie's miss v Milan, Eboue's mistimed challenge, Ramsey's injury and the awful penalty against Gibbs in the same game. The only bit of really good luck I can recall is Wigan holding out against Man City last week.

But it's still easier to get a ticket at Chelsea (capacity 41,000) than Arsenal .

Wenger has been immense, obviously through his first few years, but even during the last nine. Sixteen years of continuous CL football is success in my book. Capacity crowds, even against lesser teams. Some brilliantly memorable games each season. I go to loads of football as well as to Arsenal, but going to the Emirates has never got boring, there's always a great sense of anticipation.

I understand why lots of people are frustrated, but sometimes you just have to appreciate what you've got. We're in much better place than most, and just need a bit more luck occasionally.

Sorry to disagree with most of you, but there you are.

So, you are contented to see us qualify for a competition that we will never win? You are pleased to see us mess up in the transfer window each season, to even more embarrassing levels than usual this time around, when we neglected to buy the striker we clearly needed, and signed a no name swede(who was injured pre-medical). On your list of memorable games, does it include an 8-2 defeat to United, a 6-3 defeat to City, and being 4-0 down in less than 20 minutes at Liverpool? If your pleased with Wenger then good for you, but I have higher ambitions for The Arsenal, than finishing in a position that the manager deems as success, because he is incapable of achieving actual success.

[Trevor Ross]

I think it's a mistake to judge success solely on what you win. At the end of the day, only one team can win the Premier League and only one can win the CL each season, and the latter has become even more unattainable, with the likes of PSG, Man City & Co busting the Fifa Fair Play rules into oblivion. (And then there's the really good teams in it as well').

The Emirates took probably five years of potential titles, but it is the envy of all. But, even so, during the barren times, there have been so many 'if onlys' and near misses....CL final in Paris, Bendtner's miss in Barcelona, the Birmingham City cock-up, Van Persie's miss v Milan, Eboue's mistimed challenge, Ramsey's injury and the awful penalty against Gibbs in the same game. The only bit of really good luck I can recall is Wigan holding out against Man City last week.

But it's still easier to get a ticket at Chelsea (capacity 41,000) than Arsenal .

Wenger has been immense, obviously through his first few years, but even during the last nine. Sixteen years of continuous CL football is success in my book. Capacity crowds, even against lesser teams. Some brilliantly memorable games each season. I go to loads of football as well as to Arsenal, but going to the Emirates has never got boring, there's always a great sense of anticipation.

I understand why lots of people are frustrated, but sometimes you just have to appreciate what you've got. We're in much better place than most, and just need a bit more luck occasionally.

Sorry to disagree with most of you, but there you are.

As long as supporters like you make up the bulk of our fanbase, we will never fulfill our potential. Your post makes me want to weep for The Arsenal.

[QuartzGooner]

I think it's a mistake to judge success solely on what you win.

That is a statement that makes sense but in the context of Arsenal, our ever-increasing ticket prices render it a very contentious point.

I too want success, but unlike you I also want to win.

If you do not then fine, there is a whole culture of the tradition of supporting a club through generations and of links to the community that I respect and am part of.

We have spent money on too many mis-firing players since 2007.
We have had the cash to buy winners, but we chose to spend it on too many average players.

We have consistently raised ticket prices since then, but had worse results than prior to 2007!

Then what about the lack of a replacement for Flamini in 2008 until 2013...when he was replaced by himself?

Cash in the bank, but no trophies in the cabinet.

Finishing in the top four is admirable and almost essential in order to attract and retain players, but even though some other sides spend more, the title was up for grabs this season with Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea all having new mangers.

And what did we do?

Good signings in Flamini and Ozil (whom I believe will be very good long-term)

BUT

We went into this season with a primary striker in Giroud (OK) but backed up by a flabby Bendtner and a crocked inexperienced Sanogo, then when we really had a chance to push on and win it, in January we only added a crocked Kallstrom!

[Block93]

Don't get me wrong - like everyone, I want desperately to win. I am just not convinced a change of manager would guarantee 'success'. The board would never go for a Mourinho, for lots of reasons. And I was only making the point that in the Premiership, like Europe, more teams have got stronger as there is much more money around the top clubs. I was convinced we'd sign Suarez, and throw the extra £10m at him, but Liverpool now have influence and that illustrates the point I am making - they would not let him leave. Yes, we should have signed another striker, but maybe Wenger thought Walcott could play there, or Podolski, and spending £30m on someone to sit on the bench wouldn't have been well-received. I think you need to judge things at the end of the season and once Wenger spells out his plans for next year. And I don't think he will get his new contract just like that.

[northbank123]

Don't get me wrong - like everyone, I want desperately to win. I am just not convinced a change of manager would guarantee 'success'. The board would never go for a Mourinho, for lots of reasons. And I was only making the point that in the Premiership, like Europe, more teams have got stronger as there is much more money around the top clubs. I was convinced we'd sign Suarez, and throw the extra £10m at him, but Liverpool now have influence and that illustrates the point I am making - they would not let him leave. Yes, we should have signed another striker, but maybe Wenger thought Walcott could play there, or Podolski, and spending £30m on someone to sit on the bench wouldn't have been well-received. I think you need to judge things at the end of the season and once Wenger spells out his plans for next year. And I don't think he will get his new contract just like that.

The temptation to do a Highbury JD-style dissection is overwhelmingly but I'll resist dotting my response with your quotes.

- Probably true that Wenger thought we had enough to cover up front (not sure why). But that has been a costly error of judgement, genuine or not, that has cost us along with so many he's made when assessing the strength of our playing squad in the past decade. Not sure I know any managers who make mistakes on purpose, doesn't mean they're not accountable for them.

- Success may not be 100% about trophies - it is of course relative, so for a tiny club mere PL survival may constitute success. However, a club of our size to go so long without a trophy cannot possibly be viewed as successful just because we sell out our ground. How often do you hear supporters brag about attendances from three or four decades ago?

- Wenger spelling out his plan? If ever there was a person incapable of changing his modus operandi it's Wenger, his plan is to do exactly the same as he's done since we moved stadium and hope it works. If you haven't spotted the cycle so far you never will. Every May his supporters say how well we did given our weaknesses, and Wenger will obviously recognise his mistake (desperate for a DM, desperate for a striker etc) this time around. Wenger fails to make the necessary signings, spends half the season insisting that we have mental strength and sufficient quality and before you know it it's May again. Then in 2 or 3 years time he will acknowledge quietly that we lacked defensive fortitude, or we needed another striker or whatever. We joke about the likes of Liverpool and Scum fans thinking this will be their season but the proportion of our fanbase that convinces themselves Wenger will change his ways in the transfer market and we'll challenge the next season is embarrassing.

- Let's put the 'bad luck' into context. Ramsey's injury - would we have otherwise won PL 2010? van Judas' miss - were we seriously 2012 CL contenders? Bendtner's miss - were we serious 2011 CL contenders? Eboue's tackle against Liverpool - were we going to win the PL in 2011 otherwise? NO, NO, NO and NO. Even in 2008 it's too easy to pin our failure on Eduardo's injury. Losing a player who scored 4 PL goals in 17 games up until then didn't cost us the title or justify our failure to beat Villa, Boro and Wigan in the next 3 games and ultimately take 8 points from 8 games in mid Feb-March.

[clockender1]

Trying to change people's views who still support Wenger is like trying to change someone's views on religion. Ie pointless.

There's always some justification or hope they can cling to.

You either have faith or you don't - if you don't have faith then you've probably added up the numerous clustefucks over the last 9 years, and if you do have faith you're ignoring all that and believing that life without Wenger would be worse.

I understand both sides as upto 2010 i was a believer, but everyone has their own line and that was mine - underperformance was fine but the rising costs tipped me over - which wasn't supposed to happen when we increased capacity by over 50%.

As i said before, had we won 3-4 cups since 2006 I think Wenger would get a much easier ride. We have to look atvwhy that didn't happen.

[markyp]

I think it's a mistake to judge success solely on what you win. At the end of the day, only one team can win the Premier League and only one can win the CL each season, and the latter has become even more unattainable, with the likes of PSG, Man City & Co busting the Fifa Fair Play rules into oblivion. (And then there's the really good teams in it as well').

The Emirates took probably five years of potential titles, but it is the envy of all. But, even so, during the barren times, there have been so many 'if onlys' and near misses....CL final in Paris, Bendtner's miss in Barcelona, the Birmingham City cock-up, Van Persie's miss v Milan, Eboue's mistimed challenge, Ramsey's injury and the awful penalty against Gibbs in the same game. The only bit of really good luck I can recall is Wigan holding out against Man City last week.

But it's still easier to get a ticket at Chelsea (capacity 41,000) than Arsenal .

Wenger has been immense, obviously through his first few years, but even during the last nine. Sixteen years of continuous CL football is success in my book. Capacity crowds, even against lesser teams. Some brilliantly memorable games each season. I go to loads of football as well as to Arsenal, but going to the Emirates has never got boring, there's always a great sense of anticipation.

I understand why lots of people are frustrated, but sometimes you just have to appreciate what you've got. We're in much better place than most, and just need a bit more luck occasionally.

Sorry to disagree with most of you, but there you are.

As long as supporters like you make up the bulk of our fanbase, we will never fulfill our potential. Your post makes me want to weep for The Arsenal.

agree with Trevor here,cry me a fucking river!!!yes we are successful,the grass at the emirates is the best in the PL,FFS WAKE UP YOU SHEEP!!!!

[clockender1]

liverpool took 6 points off United this year - we took one, the least in the top nine joint with Southampton, who still have to play them at home...

for this we pay wenger 5million a year and are offering him a new contract.

[SteveO 35]

liverpool took 6 points off United this year - we took one, the least in the top nine joint with Southampton, who still have to play them at home...

for this we pay wenger 5million a year and are offering him a new contract.

I said earlier in the season that only if we defeat Chavski, Citeh or United will I be convinced that we've made any serious progress. Two attempts left to do that. The two games against United were woeful, City ripped us a new one and the borefest at home to the Chavs hardly got the juices flowing

We seem intimidated by these three teams and it doesn't help when he picks a negative midfield against them.

Stick with a winning team and keep the same 11 who did it today

[clockender1]

Stick with a winning team and keep the same 11 who did it today

for 85 minutes, not 68.

[markyp]

it amazes me that last summer we had 80 million to spend,if youd said last may when we crawled into that 4th spot that we would finish the next season with the same team (because of ozils injury) that played the previous bar freebies would anybody believe it??Wenker out