Guus Hiddink Please

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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Bergkamp-Genius
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Post by Bergkamp-Genius »

Vlad III wrote:What is difficult to understand about the difference between something being important and something being a high standard?

To a Walsall fan the Johnstones paint trophy may be important. Does that mean that the quality is also high? No, it doesn't. So just because I thought the CWC was important doesn't also mean I have to think that it was a top notch competition.

What makes me laugh, is that people can slag off the current team till the cows come home, yet I mention the CWC wasn't gold standard and I'm slaughtered!
What has slagging the current team got to do with silverware, being critical of players and how the team play is something that has always happened, it hasn't just started since you have had a clue about what was going on.
The CWC was a prestigious bit of silverware as was the uefa at that time, that is judged by how serious the teams took it and how serious the fans took it and i can tell you as could plenty of others it was taken very seriously and the final was a big event for football fans not just if it was your team but regardless of who was playing.
There would have been little difference in quality between the last four of the CWC and the last four of the EC in those days, the Uefa was actually probably more difficuilt to win than the EC because their was more strength in depth as the 2nd and 3rd and even fourth best teams in the top leagues were in it, but of course i suppose that was another pony bit of silverware in your 8 year old eyes.

Vlad III
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Post by Vlad III »

Oh dear!

I could post the finishing positions of all the teams in the quarter finals of the cwc in 93-94 and this would show that the teams were all so good that one of them won their own championship. That was PSG and they won because of disqualification. So let me get this straight. A competition with one league winner in the quarter finals is comparable to todays champions league?

You seem to think that because we were a low seed, this somehow makes the tournament of better quality? Can you just explain that to me because I must be too much of an idiot to get it. To me it shows that we just weren't that good a team (backed up by the fact we finished 12th) and we did an amazing job to win the trophy. It doesn't make the other teams any better. But I must be wrong, please indulge me?

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Bergkamp-Genius
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Post by Bergkamp-Genius »

Vlad III wrote:Oh dear!

I could post the finishing positions of all the teams in the quarter finals of the cwc in 93-94 and this would show that the teams were all so good that one of them won their own championship. That was PSG and they won because of disqualification. So let me get this straight. A competition with one league winner in the quarter finals is comparable to todays champions league?

You seem to think that because we were a low seed, this somehow makes the tournament of better quality? Can you just explain that to me because I must be too much of an idiot to get it. To me it shows that we just weren't that good a team (backed up by the fact we finished 12th) and we did an amazing job to win the trophy. It doesn't make the other teams any better. But I must be wrong, please indulge me?
I don't think anyone suggested it was as strong as todays CL, today the CL is the be all an end all for big clubs, then it wasn't, all three european trophies and both english cups were big targets and prestigious for the top english clubs..

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Post by Vlad III »

Let me try again.

Just because something is prestigious and "a big target" does not make the standard any better or worse in quality. Its quite simple really.

For example: there are 2 people, one with an IQ of say 80 (like yourself maybe) tries really hard on a test and gets 50% and then another person with an IQ of 135 takes the same test and doesn't try at all and get 80%, does that make the first persons test of better quality? No it doesn't. How much someone wants something has no relation to the quality of the performance.

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Post by Vlad III »

Before someone slaughters me for that last post, I'm not even sure it makes sense myself! :-P

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Bergkamp-Genius
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Post by Bergkamp-Genius »

Vlad III wrote:Let me try again.

Just because something is prestigious and "a big target" does not make the standard any better or worse in quality. Its quite simple really.

For example: there are 2 people, one with an IQ of say 80 (like yourself maybe) tries really hard on a test and gets 50% and then another person with an IQ of 135 takes the same test and doesn't try at all and get 80%, does that make the first persons test of better quality? No it doesn't. How much someone wants something has no relation to the quality of the performance.

Yea lets try again shall we.

When someone was only 8 years old and didn't know the difference between a dick and a dildo much less how good a football team was or the standard of a cup competition, he shouldn't try and pretend he knows what the f*ck he is talking about to people who were actually old enough to have known what was going on and felt how important it was at the time, rather than having to look at the stats in a book.

By the way you got the IQ's the wrong way round and its 142 not 135

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g88ner
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Post by g88ner »

Vlad III wrote:How much someone wants something has no relation to the quality of the performance.
You sure about that??

A competitions integrity is completely dependent upon how much the competitors want to win it.

Teams fielding severely weakened teams in certain competitions (Villa/Sp*rs in UEFA Cup, Arsenal/ManUre in League Cup, etc) damages the competition, and definately reduces it's value.

The top teams hardly even try in the League Cup and as a result, it's died on it's arse. The UEFA Cup, and even the FA Cup, have suffered a similar fate.

Like it or not Vlad, teams used to respect the cup competitions, and as a result they meant a great deal to the clubs and the fans. The CWC was in that bracket, and the game against Parma, and Samp the season after, are amongst my finest memories of the Arsenal.

As I said in an earlier post, it's great credit to Wenger that he's helped make us one of the biggest clubs in the world, and now the fans/club see success as the league or CL, with everything else looked down on slightly.

That's fine.... but don't disrespect where we've come from. The CWC was a proud moment for this club, and it shouldn't be looked upon as "A trophy even worse than the Europa league"... as you so eloquently put it. The way you phrased that sentence was clearly trying to suggest it's about as worthwhile as something you'd scrape off your shoe, and it's THAT that I take exception to, and perhaps explains why you've been slaughtered by some?!
Vlad III wrote:So let me get this straight. A competition with one league winner in the quarter finals is comparable to todays champions league?
Who said that??? or anything even close to that??? - personally I think you made that up because you know your argument is faltering. But, if someone DID say that (and you're not making it up) then please quote the forum member who did suggest the CWC is on par with the Champions League, because I think you're talking bullshit. :wink:

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DB10GOONER
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Post by DB10GOONER »

g88ner wrote:
Vlad III wrote:How much someone wants something has no relation to the quality of the performance.
You sure about that??

A competitions integrity is completely dependent upon how much the competitors want to win it.

Teams fielding severely weakened teams in certain competitions (Villa/Sp*rs in UEFA Cup, Arsenal/ManUre in League Cup, etc) damages the competition, and definately reduces it's value.

The top teams hardly even try in the League Cup and as a result, it's died on it's arse. The UEFA Cup, and even the FA Cup, have suffered a similar fate.

Like it or not Vlad, teams used to respect the cup competitions, and as a result they meant a great deal to the clubs and the fans. The CWC was in that bracket, and the game against Parma, and Samp the season after, are amongst my finest memories of the Arsenal.

As I said in an earlier post, it's great credit to Wenger that he's helped make us one of the biggest clubs in the world, and now the fans/club see success as the league or CL, with everything else looked down on slightly.

That's fine.... but don't disrespect where we've come from. The CWC was a proud moment for this club, and it shouldn't be looked upon as "A trophy even worse than the Europa league"... as you so eloquently put it. The way you phrased that sentence was clearly trying to suggest it's about as worthwhile as something you'd scrape off your shoe, and it's THAT that I take exception to, and perhaps explains why you've been slaughtered by some?!
Vlad III wrote:So let me get this straight. A competition with one league winner in the quarter finals is comparable to todays champions league?
Who said that??? or anything even close to that??? - personally I think you made that up because you know your argument is faltering. But, if someone DID say that (and you're not making it up) then please quote the forum member who did suggest the CWC is on par with the Champions League, because I think you're talking bullshit. :wink:
Great post G88ner. 8)

Christ I remember us winning the League Cup in 87 and it was MASSIVE. 97000 fans crammed into Wembley. After 8 years without winning jack shit and to beat the "unbeatable" mousers in the final too. 8)

Similarly I was gutted to lose to Luton in the LC in 88. :(

In those days the LC was a big competition.

The CWC win in 94 was even bigger. Fucking huge result against a strong Parma side.

You got this one arseways Vlad, mate!

Fucking youth of today! :banghead: :lol: :wink:

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goonersid
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Post by goonersid »

[Great post G88ner. 8) quote DB10
Christ I remember us winning the League Cup in 87 and it was MASSIVE. 97000 fans crammed into
Wembley. After 8 years without winning jack shit and to beat the "unbeatable" mousers in the final too. 8)

Similarly I was gutted to lose to Luton in the LC in 88. :(

In those days the LC was a big competition.

The CWC win in 94 was even bigger. Fucking huge result against a strong Parma side.

You got this one arseways Vlad, mate!

Fucking youth of today! :banghead: :lol: :wink:[/quote]

Football was an entirely different enterprise then, uefa cup and cup winnners cup meant something, because only 1 team made it into the European cup. And a place in these competitions was prestegious, were as now almost half the fucking premiership is involved in one european competition or another. :roll:
The league cup was taken more seriously because top teams didn't have to play the same volume of european games, due to the stupid group stages format. :roll:
Don't get me wrong, I would love to go back to the old way all these competitions were structured, but to attach any credibility to these competitions nowadays is solely for those who have never won them when they meant something.

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SteveO 35
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Post by SteveO 35 »

How about any of these managers please ?

Christian Gross
Egil Olsen
Graham Taylor
Sven
Gordon Brittas
Basil Fawlty
David Brent
The bloke who manages my local McDonalds

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franksav63
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Post by franksav63 »

SteveO 35 wrote:How about any of these managers please ?

Christian Gross
Egil Olsen
Graham Taylor
Sven
Gordon Brittas
Basil Fawlty
David Brent
The bloke who manages my local McDonalds
Isn't that Radford.... :shock: :wink: :wink: :lol:

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SteveO 35
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Post by SteveO 35 »

franksav63 wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote:How about any of these managers please ?

Christian Gross
Egil Olsen
Graham Taylor
Sven
Gordon Brittas
Basil Fawlty
David Brent
The bloke who manages my local McDonalds
Isn't that Radford.... :shock: :wink: :wink: :lol:
At least when I ask my local McDonalds manager for the Go Large option he doesn't try to brainwash me that buying small and cheap is better and questions whether or not I can sustain my excessive purchasing in the long term :D

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franksav63
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Post by franksav63 »

SteveO 35 wrote:
franksav63 wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote:How about any of these managers please ?

Christian Gross
Egil Olsen
Graham Taylor
Sven
Gordon Brittas
Basil Fawlty
David Brent
The bloke who manages my local McDonalds
Isn't that Radford.... :shock: :wink: :wink: :lol:
At least when I ask my local McDonalds manager for the Go Large option he doesn't try to brainwash me that buying small and cheap is better and questions whether or not I can sustain my excessive purchasing in the long term :D
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


... or he doesn't say.. ''you can't have the fillet-o-fish, it'll kill off the Big Mac's'' :shock: :shock:

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marcengels
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Post by marcengels »

Has Vlad the Mad given up trying to find a way out of this? Shit, I was enjoying his idiotic ramblings.

:lol: :lol:

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DB10GOONER
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Post by DB10GOONER »

franksav63 wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote:
franksav63 wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote:How about any of these managers please ?

Christian Gross
Egil Olsen
Graham Taylor
Sven
Gordon Brittas
Basil Fawlty
David Brent
The bloke who manages my local McDonalds
Isn't that Radford.... :shock: :wink: :wink: :lol:
At least when I ask my local McDonalds manager for the Go Large option he doesn't try to brainwash me that buying small and cheap is better and questions whether or not I can sustain my excessive purchasing in the long term :D
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


... or he doesn't say.. ''you can't have the fillet-o-fish, it'll kill off the Big Mac's'' :shock: :shock:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Quality Frank. 8)

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