ARE SOME OF US GOING A BIT OTT?

[skipper]

Just because Wenger whinges most of the time, doesn't mean he's not right this time.

[BT]

Again, it comes back to whether teams are punished against us as we would be if the boot was on the other foot and all evidence suggests not. Whether Wenger has made a rod for his own back or not.

Time and again we get a yellow for our first foul of the game while other teams go unpunished. I still think Song being booked so early on against United ruined that game. Again on Saturday he was booked for the merest of things and got the only yellow of the game. It needs to be applied the same for everyone or not at all. You can't be a soft touch AND pick up a booking for every foul. We get none of the benefits and all of the punishment. We have lumps kicked out of us and then OUR players are suspended.

And time and again we are denied penalites when we should have them. Our first 60 goals scored and not one was a penalty. For a team that is accused of being too quick for the opposition, then again the argument goes we should have a lot more than we are given.

No one called Coyle a whinger when he accused Gallas of 'assault' - a statement that he later retracted because even he thought it was extreme.

[Bergkamp-Genius]

The funny thing is BT i sat and listened to the exact same spiel from a Villa fan on Sunday afternoon and i have heard it from fans of numerous different clubs my whole life...go into any pub in any city in England and you'll hear the same story, just replace the name Arsenal for one of the other 19 clubs in the premier...they all think their clubs are hard done to, are singled out for special bad treatment, they all think they miss out on stonewall pens and free kicks and everyone else gets them for everything and anything, they all think they get punished for the slightest thing and everyone else gets away with murder.
You will be hard pressed to find any football fan that doesn't have a totally distorted view of the persecution their club suffer from refs and commentators..and they can all come up with a million examples..

[BT]

I know everyone is a bit myopic and you only really see your team week in, week out BUT, it's a fact that we'd been granted the least penalties and were still the league's top scorers.

And, its a fact that we always top the foul:card's received ratio - something like 1 card to every 2 fouls...

We are also the second most fouled team and that's just the ones that are counted...

I'm not one for using stats to back me up but those are all quite obvious facts.

["He's comes from Se]

Let's not pretend that a significant level of xenophobia does not also play a hand in this.

In AW's earlier days the jingoistic mob went on and on and on about Arsenal's horrendous "disciplinary record", Arsenal were often painted as a club with quality but a significant nasty streak in them and torn to shreds each and every time we had a player sent off.

Anyone else recall the reaction in the press after the handbags at OT in 2003? Think Al Qaieda got an easier time in the press than Arsenal did following that incident.

Lost count the amount of times AW was lectured by the press that he must "Get Arsenal under control" but today...well now we're a bunch of whinging pansies, whom need more grit, steel and courage if were to have any hope of success in the PL.

Dammed if we do and dammed if we don't.

Hell look a the reaction by the likes of Sky Sports to the Gallas challenge on Davies of Bolton.

Let's not pretend that xenophobia and hypocrisy have not been at play with the Arsenal among the jingoistic press since the day "Arsene who?" joined the Arsenal.

[Bergkamp-Genius]

In some ways it does as it could be symptomatic of heavier challenges going in against us as the force needed to cause a double compound fracture is greater than a hairline fracture.

Yes you would think so but it's not always the case i done my tib fib, i'd suffered much heavier impacts than when it actually happened and had nothing more than a bruise, i've seen some seriously heavy impacts on tv and whilst playing where the player came out with nothing more than a sore leg, yet i've seen others that looked much less that caused some right nasty breaks and knee injuries..there is no hard and fast rule about why some breaks are worse than others and why sometimes you get away unhurt.. it has a lot more to do with luck than intent..

You used Blackburn and Manchester United as examples of other teams with leg breaks. I was just asking for some context for your figures. We all know that Eduardo, Diaby and Ramsey were all caused by poor challenges and I do not argue that other teams suffer poor challenges as well, but my knowledge of leg breaks in the Premiership is not all encompassing, but of the two teams you mentioned I know two of them were not caused by poor challenges which is totally different to what is being argued. So I was just after a little context for the other leg breaks?

Would it make you feel better if you found out that all Blackburn and Man Utd and all other professional players that don't play for Arsenal's broken legs were caused by players falling over their own laces .. i think you can take it for granted that out of six broken legs some of them were caused by tackles i don't think it's necessary to go in to detail of who's breaks are worse than who's.. bad tackles mis timed tackles are much of a muchness the severity of the outcome is dependent on how unlucky you are..

Also what are your views on other teams being able to say they will kick us in the press and for this to be ok? For your talk of "Wengerball" and 94 and 98 teams I do not remember that happening to those teams or to any other team now? I would have no problem with the opposition saying they will press us and that they will get stuck in in an attempt to win the ball back quickly. But these other teams do not mention the football, just that they will kick us. Football is a contact sport but it is not kickboxing, it is still played with a football, but with us it seems the football is an afterthought!

I don't read the press and i take everything written in it with a huge pinch of salt and i don't believe that anyone said they were going to 'kick us' sounds like the media embellishing or quoting out of context to stir things up, which i know is very unlike them ..

[Bergkamp-Genius]

I know everyone is a bit myopic and you only really see your team week in, week out BUT, it's a fact that we'd been granted the least penalties and were still the league's top scorers.

And, its a fact that we always top the foul:card's received ratio - something like 1 card to every 2 fouls...

We are also the second most fouled team and that's just the ones that are counted...

I'm not one for using stats to back me up but those are all quite obvious facts.

As i said they can all come up with a million examples..i've even heard Man Utd fans do it