Beware the Germans are coming

SWLGooner · Post by **SWLGooner** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:45 am

Bring Back Pires wrote:
I Hate Hleb wrote:
EC3 wrote:Yes to right I'd rather have empty seats than a load of grauts in seats they shouldn't have.

As forgiven it the big un you really think that comment was?

I have no time for Germans and would certainly have no time for drinking with them.

What a joke
What an embarrassing thing to say. You do realise that it's now the 21st Century, don't you?

I'm proud to say that I've been to Germany and the people I came across were polite, respectful and generous. We should judge people solely by how we find them, not by 20th Century stereo-types that should be consigned to the past.
I'm maybe not quite as extreme as EC3 in my views, but I agree with him to an extent.

Back in the 80s etc., away fans scored kudos points by 'taking over' stands at various stadiums, and so on. I'm not sure about you, but I don't particularly want the Emirates being taken over by away fans, regardless of which club or country they're from.

If I'm buying a ticket for a game at the Emirates, I don't want to be surrounded by a stack of away fans. And I do think the club should sort this out before it becomes commonplace (which it threatens to, with our ticket sales worsening every season).

It's supposed to be our home turf. If that's not sacred ground, then we really are screwed.

I agree to some extent, but I haven't got any particular problem with Germans.

I think Arsenal have just royally cocked tho whole thing up... What a surprise.

safcftm · Post by **safcftm** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:28 am

I agree with arsenal regarding kicking away fans out of the home end if they're wearing colours. Getting tickets in the home end as an away fan is fine, I've done it for Sunderland games when the away end has been sold out (including our last trip to highbury). When you do it, however, you should go without colours, keep your head down and just watch the match. If I'd gone in the north bank wearing the safc strip and jumping about like an idiot I'd have expected a smack and couldn't have complained, there's no need to do it and it's disrespectful to the home team- disrespect them in their home end and you get what's coming to you. As it was, it was obvious that I was Sunderland, but I kept quiet, applauded the arsenal team onto the pitch, clapped when they had a good move and all the gooners were spot on and happy to have a bit chat and some light hearted pisstaking. If you're in the home end, have some respect and you're normally fine, wear an away strip and you take your chances- arsenal are sensible to want to reduce the risk of problems by chucking away fans out of the home end if they're in away colours

SWLGooner · Post by **SWLGooner** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:55 am

safcftm wrote:I agree with arsenal regarding kicking away fans out of the home end if they're wearing colours. Getting tickets in the home end as an away fan is fine, I've done it for Sunderland games when the away end has been sold out (including our last trip to highbury). When you do it, however, you should go without colours, keep your head down and just watch the match. If I'd gone in the north bank wearing the safc strip and jumping about like an idiot I'd have expected a smack and couldn't have complained, there's no need to do it and it's disrespectful to the home team- disrespect them in their home end and you get what's coming to you. As it was, it was obvious that I was Sunderland, but I kept quiet, applauded the arsenal team onto the pitch, clapped when they had a good move and all the gooners were spot on and happy to have a bit chat and some light hearted pisstaking. If you're in the home end, have some respect and you're normally fine, wear an away strip and you take your chances- arsenal are sensible to want to reduce the risk of problems by chucking away fans out of the home end if they're in away colours

Good post mate, I have done the same, at the SoL, did not celebrate when we scored in the last minute, clapped Leadbitter's wonder goal, but i think us and you lot get on, it was never quite as easy or welcoming at Chelsea

I did it at Craven Cottage and Brisbane Road, celebrated both times and nobody gave a toss.

GermanBlue · Post by **GermanBlue** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:31 pm

safcftm wrote:I agree with arsenal regarding kicking away fans out of the home end if they're wearing colours. Getting tickets in the home end as an away fan is fine, I've done it for Sunderland games when the away end has been sold out (including our last trip to highbury). When you do it, however, you should go without colours, keep your head down and just watch the match. If I'd gone in the north bank wearing the safc strip and jumping about like an idiot I'd have expected a smack and couldn't have complained, there's no need to do it and it's disrespectful to the home team- disrespect them in their home end and you get what's coming to you. As it was, it was obvious that I was Sunderland, but I kept quiet, applauded the arsenal team onto the pitch, clapped when they had a good move and all the gooners were spot on and happy to have a bit chat and some light hearted pisstaking. If you're in the home end, have some respect and you're normally fine, wear an away strip and you take your chances- arsenal are sensible to want to reduce the risk of problems by chucking away fans out of the home end if they're in away colours

I agree to some extent. I certainly wouldn't wear away colours in the North Bank and you better not wear away colours on Dortmunds South Terrace.

However, I don't see a problem in other areas like upper Clock End or Club Level. I had to take of my scarf off at half-time (! Why did no one care when I entered the stadium or the block?) during the Carling Cup semi-final in January and in my eyes it was unnecessary because Club Level isn't a place of aggressive Gooners who are easily offended. I had some good banter in the lounge and home fans seemed to be alright with it.

SWLGooner · Post by **SWLGooner** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:37 pm

GermanBlue wrote:
safcftm wrote:I agree with arsenal regarding kicking away fans out of the home end if they're wearing colours. Getting tickets in the home end as an away fan is fine, I've done it for Sunderland games when the away end has been sold out (including our last trip to highbury). When you do it, however, you should go without colours, keep your head down and just watch the match. If I'd gone in the north bank wearing the safc strip and jumping about like an idiot I'd have expected a smack and couldn't have complained, there's no need to do it and it's disrespectful to the home team- disrespect them in their home end and you get what's coming to you. As it was, it was obvious that I was Sunderland, but I kept quiet, applauded the arsenal team onto the pitch, clapped when they had a good move and all the gooners were spot on and happy to have a bit chat and some light hearted pisstaking. If you're in the home end, have some respect and you're normally fine, wear an away strip and you take your chances- arsenal are sensible to want to reduce the risk of problems by chucking away fans out of the home end if they're in away colours
I agree to some extent. I certainly wouldn't wear away colours in the North Bank and you better not wear away colours on Dortmunds South Terrace.

However, I don't see a problem in other areas like upper Clock End or Club Level. I had to take of my scarf off at half-time (! Why did no one care when I entered the stadium or the block?) during the Carling Cup semi-final in January and in my eyes it was unnecessary because Club Level isn't a place of aggressive Gooners who are easily offended. I had some good banter in the lounge and home fans seemed to be alright with it.

I sit in Club Level, if you were wearing an Ipswich scarf I would have gone over and told you to take it off or do one, if you're going to go in the home end and be quiet and respectful then that's it, but by wearing your colours you're basically mugging us off.

GermanBlue · Post by **GermanBlue** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:59 pm

SWLGooner wrote:I sit in Club Level, if you were wearing an Ipswich scarf I would have gone over and told you to take it off or do one, if you're going to go in the home end and be quiet and respectful then that's it, but by wearing your colours you're basically mugging us off.

As mentioned before by other users, it seems to be a matter of different "football cultures". For me it's only a friggin' scarf and hardly has any influence on the game. At the end of the day, we are all just there to watch the footy, aren't we?

I had two Arsenal fans sitting in front of me during the game in Dortmund (on the main stand, near the South Terrace). They were both wearing Arsenal shirts and no one had a problem with them, even when they jumped up to celebrate Van Persie's goal.

However, I accept it's different in British stadiums (even though I don't understand it) and won't do it again after my experience in January. I will probably get tickets for upper West Stand for the CL game and will leave my scarf at home.

safcftm · Post by **safcftm** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:43 pm

SWLGooner wrote:
I sit in Club Level, if you were wearing an Ipswich scarf I would have gone over and told you to take it off or do one, if you're going to go in the home end and be quiet and respectful then that's it, but by wearing your colours you're basically mugging us off.

Agreed. I simply dont see the point in it. Why would you feel the need to wear an away teams shirt/ scarf etc? I go to away games in the away end and dont bother with colours but those that do tend to say that they do it so the players can see a wall of colour, noise and support. One person sat on their own in the home end isnt going to inspire their side or anything, its just risking annoying the home fans for no good reason. If a game is sold out its especially annoying- people sit there thinking "fucking hell, its bad enough that he's here instead of a gooner but he's even rubbing peoples faces in it".

I think its disrespectful, its attention seeking ("look at me, I'm not a gooner, I'm a Sunderland/ Ipswich/ Dortmund fan") and its totally unnecessary, and thats whether you're in the north bank, club level or anywhere else, just no need for it. If you wear your teams strip just like the away fans do, do you also think its okay to celebrate when your team scores? If you do then chances are you'll get bother because you are just antagonising people. If you dont, then it would appear you realise that an away fan in the home end can piss people off, but are still daft enough to want to make a spectacle of yourself by parading scarves/ strips around. Baffling and pointless, regardless of football culture

GermanBlue wrote:I certainly wouldn't wear away colours in the North Bank and you better not wear away colours on Dortmunds South Terrace.

Hmm, terrifying I'm sure. I'd better bear that in mind for Sunderland's next European trip. Mind I think I'll be fine since a) our last european trip was 1973 so I dont think I need to think about changing me boxer shorts just yet and b) I actually go to my clubs away games so would get a ticket in the away end without needing to try and look like an uber fan despite not having enough credits to be in the away allocation

jamjc64 · Post by **jamjc64** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:02 pm

Without the need for copy, paste and quote i have a solution

Half and Half scarf

Simples

Sorry safctm i cant help you with your accent

safcftm · Post by **safcftm** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:07 pm

jamjc64 wrote:Without the need for copy, paste and quote i have a solution

Half and Half scarf Simples

Sorry safctm i cant help you with your accent

back to the elocution lessons for me then like

TomÃ¡Å¡ · Post by **TomÃ¡Å¡** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:02 pm

Dear Gunners,
Please let me introduce myself, since this will be my first posting: Iâ€™m a 45 year (born 1966 when England won the world cup against Germany) old bloke from a town close to Dortmund/Germany. Iâ€™ve seen my first live football game 1972 when I was six years young. Iâ€™m a Borussia Dortmund supporter since the late 80ties. Iâ€™ve used to travel a lot to games when I was young, these days like most of us middle age men I try to fit football in with family, work and other private duties, a real quandary like most of you know and have been through.

Iâ€™ll comment on some of your previous postings:

1. We are really looking forward to travel to London. It is one of the most amazing and stunning world cities. We have to take vacation, leave school and be sometimes very creative to take a couple of days off during a regular week. Arsenal London is a club with such a great history in football and Borussia Dortmund, after winning the champions league in 1997 (something Arsenal is still trying to achieve

), has been out of the European competition for almost 10 years. Iâ€™ve read that some of you have been in Dortmund for the first league game and I think youâ€™ve got back to England only with good memories (maybe except the result from your point of view), maybe some of you have watched the official welcome trailer from Borussia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuimbkioYt0

But besides this trailer I think for those of you who have been to the Westfalenstadium (well like you weâ€™ve also cashed in our souls and the official name is something else) , which was due to UEFA regulation downsized to only 60.000 (normally Bundesliga we have over 80.000) and before to the city of Dortmund, it was a memorable evening http://www.schwatzgelb.de/2011-09-13_bo ... phere.html and
http://www.fotos-kirsche.de/gallery/ind ... al&cat=152
and I hope that you have been felt welcomed and being treated well by us.

2. Like all away clubs in the European league, Dortmund has received 5% of the tickets (in the national league we get 10% and normally we are using them all), officially 3.000. As we understand we will be located in the stands 20 to 23 http://www.frenchgunner.com/emirates-st ... um-london/

Dortmund fans are very creative and well organized when it comes to purchase tickets. So I would guess another 3.000 bought tickets via Arsenal sale and other sources, which is great. Now Arsenal is moving most of them into 116 to 119. That will mean we will get a very solid â€˜yellow wallâ€™ as we call our main south stand. I can understand your concerns regarding the team colors. We have the same regulation in Dortmund. On the south stand (25.000 people standing!) and southwest, southeast, you are normally not allowed to show your opponent team colors. Most of the BVB supporters will be at Clock End so that should not be a problem. It was also in Dortmund, a lot of the Arsenal supports which had tickets outside the official away stands, had been wearing team colors and it was ok, no problems at all, why should it?

3. You really should have a pint of lager with a BVB supporter if you get a chance. First of all Dortmund used to be the number one brewery city in Germany. For BVB Fans football and having a drink goes hand in hand. During a regular league game you will find the pubs before and after the game packed.

Borussia Dortmund fan scene is a very good mixture. You have old and young, you have all kind of social layers. You have guys who are for long time around, have seen a couple of championships, even have seen the 1966 European final cup win at Hampton Park against Liverpool. You have young lads who are just in their first campaign with the club. We are a very friendly, supporting and creative fan base. We love our club, we are pride of our colors black and yellow and we follow our club through the highs and downs and believe me during our more than 100 year club history (established 1909) it was quite a ride sometimes.
You can expect 90 minutes support from us and we will put some noise into your stadium or as some journalists call it â€˜the libraryâ€™

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... z1XtQkF4eU so letâ€™s proof them wrong!

09. If you would like to follow the latest news regarding your next champions league opponent you can go to official club web side in English: http://www.bvb.de/?Z%1B%E4%F4%9D and also to the best and most known fanzine side covering Borussia Dortmund issues, also with an English version: http://www.schwatzgelb.de/index_com.html

====

Summary for now: We are looking forward to travel to the city of London, play against a superb, traditional well accepted and proud squad from Arsenal London, have maybe a few drinks with some Arsenal fans, support our team for 90 minutes and to unite on the wonderful game of football. Nick Hornby wrote everything about that in Fever Pitch so letâ€™s keep the dream alive.

With best black and yellow wishes from Germany,
Thomas

P.S: Donâ€™t mention the war (yes I know

) â€“ it is football

Dan_85 · Post by **Dan_85** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:15 pm

Welcome to the forum TomÃ¡Å¡. Great first post, very interesting too. That trailer is excellent by the way!

arseofacrow · Post by **arseofacrow** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:36 pm

Dan_85 wrote:Welcome to the forum TomÃ¡Å¡. Great first post, very interesting too. That trailer is excellent by the way!

Tomas - Dan loves foreign football, foreign stadiums and foreign fans (unless they're tourists who go to watch Arsenal

) I think he's coming on to you.

Dan_85 · Post by **Dan_85** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:40 pm

arseofacrow wrote:
Dan_85 wrote:Welcome to the forum TomÃ¡Å¡. Great first post, very interesting too. That trailer is excellent by the way!
Tomas - Dan loves foreign football, foreign stadiums and foreign fans (unless they're tourists who go to watch Arsenal ) I think he's coming on to you.

You'll laugh, but Tomas could actually help me out with something....

I'm looking to possibly go to BVB vs Kaiserslautern on December 11th. Have I understood the site correctly, tickets go on sale tomorrow morning?! Vielen dank!

arseofacrow · Post by **arseofacrow** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:47 pm

Dan_85 wrote:
arseofacrow wrote:
Dan_85 wrote:Welcome to the forum TomÃ¡Å¡. Great first post, very interesting too. That trailer is excellent by the way!
Tomas - Dan loves foreign football, foreign stadiums and foreign fans (unless they're tourists who go to watch Arsenal ) I think he's coming on to you.
You'll laugh, but Tomas could actually help me out with something....

I'm looking to possibly go to BVB vs Kaiserslautern on December 11th. Have I understood the site correctly, tickets go on sale tomorrow morning?! Vielen dank!

Yes!

SWLGooner · Post by **SWLGooner** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:50 pm

Good post Tomas, except the bit where you quoted Martin Samuel, frankly sometimes think it would have been for the better had the Headhunters carried out their threats :awnker: