Those that call suicide a selfish act have the good fortune to be making judgements with a rational mind. If it was mental health then it would be very harsh to judge Gary Speed's "decision" as selfish. Mental health encompasses complex, often overlapping illnesses that can impair rational thought, especially at times of distress.
Whatever brought Gary to a place where he believed his family were better off without him must have been terrible for him. The news is shocking and I hope the man rests in peace and his family are given time and assistance to come to terms with their loss.
RIP Gary Speed
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Cockerill's chin
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MK Gould wrote:FFS Augie. Maybe he snored? Maybe they had a row the night before? maybe they did sleep in separate beds (I know plenty of slightly older couples who do!). Do we really have a right to know though and is it really fair to speculate??augie wrote:I did wonder how he was found hanged in his bedroom just after 7am - where was his wife when he was doing this ?It takes more than a few minutes to set something like this up so it might suggest seperate bedrooms ?
"Acceptable reason".....? Do you not think that he must have been in some desperately bad place to contemplate doing what he did.augie wrote: I have to say that I agree totally with what Number 5 has said - I know people say that depression is an awful thing (if it was depression) but I still dont know if it is an acceptable reason to do what he did especially leaving two young kids behind
Who knows what goes on in someones mind to make them react in that way when someone else can seemingly take it in their stride. But I think it's an oversimplification to imply that he should have thought of them first and got a grip. He probably thought that doing what he did would be better for them. How desperate is that??
Believe it or not I am not trying to judge and I am trying not to speculate but as I said before because it is hard to comprehend it is human nature to try and find some rational explaination for it all. I really hope that the rumour of an expose by some rag aint true cos he is a guy that I really respected as a player and his conduct on the pitch wa an example for all kids to follow.
Similar to most people, I have known people who have committed suicide - I get the argument when some defend the actions of the individual who committed suicide when others claim it is a selfish act but from my experience I have to be honest and say that most of the time I do agree with the selfish tag. My father in law was a teenager when he found his father dead in a shed having blown his own head off and to this day it still troubles him a lot and the only feelings that he has for the man now are anger and bitterness so when I see close hand how that affected him for the past 50 years then it cant help but influence my opinions. That said, I also had a next door neighbour kill herself in her early 20's when suffering from depression and I took a different view of that situation - she was married a couple of years, had no kids but was suffering a lot from depression and basically killed herself to release her husband from the life ahead of him
hope?.....the importance of the word is trivialised all too often but when an individual feels there is none (and therefore no light at the end of the tunnel) the most acute fear can have the effect of intensifying our feelings of inadequacy and overwhelm. whatever the reason, he clearly felt unable to cope.QuartzGooner wrote:The crux is that if it was depression, then can anyone know if reason and logic are part of the depressive's thoughts when doing such a thing?augie wrote: I know people say that depression is an awful thing (if it was depression) but I still dont know if it is an acceptable reason to do what he did especially leaving two young kids behind
You have to imagine that his entire view of life and what it means, would be irrational, in the moments leading up to what he did.
(Certainly a look at Collymore's article suggest that the mind becomes unreasonable and illogical during depression.)
He would be in such a dark place he would feel beyond hope.
Which is a terrible thing, and why friendship and qualified medical help are so vital.
curiosity is human but none of us can ever judge unless we've been there. as the saying goes "but for the grace....."
If he was my dad I would no doubt feel the anger and bitterness as well. But that's imagining that his dad took that decision with a rational mind. He didn't. The poor guy will have been very sick - but a sickness that you can't see on an x-ray.augie wrote:Similar to most people, I have known people who have committed suicide - I get the argument when some defend the actions of the individual who committed suicide when others claim it is a selfish act but from my experience I have to be honest and say that most of the time I do agree with the selfish tag. My father in law was a teenager when he found his father dead in a shed having blown his own head off and to this day it still troubles him a lot and the only feelings that he has for the man now are anger and bitterness so when I see close hand how that affected him for the past 50 years then it cant help but influence my opinions.
Depression is a terrible disease, no argument. However, in my opinion when it results in suicide the cause of the depression has a bearing.
For example my opinion of someone who runs up a mountain of debt due to gambling resulting in depression/suicide Would be different to that of someone who is terminally ill had decided to end it.
It's a sad situation for the kids/family whatever. A friend of mine took that way out and it's the little lad the same age as mine that I was crying for at the funeral.
For example my opinion of someone who runs up a mountain of debt due to gambling resulting in depression/suicide Would be different to that of someone who is terminally ill had decided to end it.
It's a sad situation for the kids/family whatever. A friend of mine took that way out and it's the little lad the same age as mine that I was crying for at the funeral.
Hardly, if these rumours are true, then it will have been driven by vanity and how he wanted to be seen by others.n6gooner wrote:goonersid wrote:If the growing rumours are true, then his suicide will have been an act of incredible hopelessness and despair?
Depression is an entirely different matter and since friends and colleagues are bewildered by his death, then I doubt that he had hidden depression from all of them.
I hope the rumours are just that and for the sake of his family, that it was depression and as you say "hopelessness and despair"
Like most people I have lost friends to suicide but I have also lost friends to cancer and fatal accidents and I can tell you now I grieve for them more, because no matter what there is still an element of selfishness in any suicide.
i entirely understand where you're coming from - values, beliefs and experiences will always make for differences in interpretation of these situations (weak or selfish?, strong or vain? lonely or self-obsessed and proud?). who knows...goonersid wrote:Hardly, if these rumours are true, then it will have been driven by vanity and how he wanted to be seen by others.n6gooner wrote:goonersid wrote:If the growing rumours are true, then his suicide will have been an act of incredible hopelessness and despair?
Depression is an entirely different matter and since friends and colleagues are bewildered by his death, then I doubt that he had hidden depression from all of them.
I hope the rumours are just that and for the sake of his family, that it was depression and as you say "hopelessness and despair"
Like most people I have lost friends to suicide but I have also lost friends to cancer and fatal accidents and I can tell you now I grieve for them more, because no matter what there is still an element of selfishness in any suicide.
I'm happy to be corrected/eductaed here.Cockerill's chin wrote:Those that call suicide a selfish act have the good fortune to be making judgements with a rational mind. If it was mental health then it would be very harsh to judge Gary Speed's "decision" as selfish. Mental health encompasses complex, often overlapping illnesses that can impair rational thought, especially at times of distress.
Whatever brought Gary to a place where he believed his family were better off without him must have been terrible for him. The news is shocking and I hope the man rests in peace and his family are given time and assistance to come to terms with their loss.
I would have thought a situation of depression/mental health to be a progressive thing. I can't imagine it being like flicking a switch and one day you go from normal to suicidal and end it all.
Surely more likely it would happen over a period of time. Everyone knows their own self, their own normal behaviours and attitudes extremely well. Once that starts to change and they know that they are acting/feeling outside of what is normal for them, and especially if they have kids or a family, they'd want to get that addressed surely?
If help is sought in time, it can be helped can't it?
As I said I'm happy to be eductaed if you have more direct knowledge of the subject. I have a family member (in law) who suffers from manic depression but it is never talked about or discussed and I've never had first hand experiences, just what the wife tells me it was like for her dealing with it growing up.
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rodders999
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