As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Babatunde wrote:Not going off on one Olgit. Labelling this as a "black kids" comment is plain retarded though. Can you not see this?
Nope.
quote "
Black kids in London love to talk 'Gangster' & american slang
White kids like to sound like blacks "
I don't see this comment as "retarded". It's a general observation. And one I don't disagree with.
It's very common for youngsters to take on the accent/personna of people they admire. Or who they want to fit in with.
A relative of mine is a white boy who has the same accent and mannerisms of his black friends. Totally unlike his brothers, who speak Thames Estuary.
I also know some really posh kids who contrive to talk like chavs.
Imitation, as they say, is the sincerest form of flattery.
Broad generalisations in regards to supposed notions of race are ignorant.
Regardless of race.
Personally i get more offended by ignorant nonsense like that than i would about a couple of footballers swearing at each other.
The statement wasnt qualified at all, the first.question would be who exactly are these 'black' kids being refferred to?
1st generation?
West indian
West african
East african
South london
I could go on.
Not to mention the fact that if you go to a arsenal game you'll see a load of geezers from essex and surrey talking like they were raised in the east end.
Lol
Nonsense
Not a broad generalisation. It's a general observation. Big difference.
It's not group specific. Just black kids and a smaller number of white kids who talk "gangsta".
What have your "gor blimey" geezers have got to do with anything?
Lol please explain to me what the BIG difference between 'general' and 'broad'?
General observations ARE broad. Ie 'black kids' i ask again who exactly are these black kids?
Jamaican? Nigerian? If you think they talk the same and can be lumped into a general or broad group of black kids youd just be highlighting your ignorance of linguistic differences.
Which is fine.
You are entitled to make generalisations
And im entitled to point out how your broad generalisations about kids based on your ideas of race are ignorant and wrong - imo
Broad generalisation = most black kids speak gangsta = incorrect.
General observation = some black kids speak gangsta = correct.
Now do you understand the difference?
It's not ethnic-specific.
Why do you assume that I'm "ignorant of linguistic differences"??? You assume that I can't tell the difference between people from Jamaican and Nigerian backgrounds etc. You're wrong. And it's quite insulting.
Likewise your comment saying my "ideas of race are ignorant and wrong".
You ought to come down from your great big high horse. You might be able to see things more clearly.
That is interesting but really heavily simplified. It's a fascinating topic and one I spent a lot of time studying. It's believed that part of the reason teenagers do talk that way is that it removes all ethnic markers. Certain Cockney features, such as wide, fronted vowels ('fice' for 'face', etc) can be considered 'white', whereas clipped vowels are considered 'black'. There are vowel features from sub-continental Asia too although, if I'm honest, my memory can't stretch as to what.
By taking a base of Cockney, i.e., 'f' for 'th', (I think it's called labiodental fricative), glottal stops ('dropping' the 't' in the middle of 'butter', etc) and having these new innovative features, all the studies come to the conclusion that it is the youth of London breaking down all ethnic markers in their speech by all speaking the same. It is an ethnically neutral way of speaking.
The irony is that slightly more wealthy 'white' children who aren't from the council estates emulate it in order to sound more 'black'. But those who grow up speaking it organically tend to be doing it for the complete opposite reason - it's subconscious though.
It's important to note that the base of this 'new' London dialect (which actually is quite old), is actually Cockney. That was the springboard. So there is homage paid towards it. A lot of 'gangstas' even have certain rhyming slang words in their repertoire. I think it's fascinating.
When they say that Cockney is more likely to be spoken in Essex, it's not quite true. There are subtle differences between Estuary and Cockney. One thing I've informally observed in Southend is the rise of 'newer London features' anyway. Where London leads the rest will follow, as it has always been - look at the rapid death of the original Kentish, Essex and Sussex accents and dialects in the face of the spread of Cockney features.
It will change before it is fully assimilated though, if it ever is. The Fenlands are taking on Cockney features but what is coming through is not Cockney or traditional Fenlands. It's a completely new mix between the two.
Sorry for the essay - taking the thread heavily away from the title. It's just this is a particular favourite topic of mine. I spent a lot of time studying it all in academic journals etc.
I know its a lot more complex, but it's easier to brush everyone with the same brush, 'oi oi trying to copy hip hop or baggy trousers etc...'
No one wears baggy trousers any more .
A guy swore at another guy at a football match? A disgrace? Thats a little over the top.
Ive heard a lot worse in front of kids at games, and im sure all of you have sung 'the refs a banker' at least once.
It wasnt church,
An office
Or even a party.
It was a football match.
Ps - eastmond is rubbish
what the fuck? it's not one supporter talking to another, it's a member of arsenal football club who has games for the first team!!!
imagine your kid has the awesome opportunity of seeing an arsenal player in front of him, and he speaks like that? what kind of message do you think it sends to a kid???
and that's coming from me, a guy who's extremely foul mouthed in every language i speak, and i'm not a father! but ffs mate, any decent person knows that there is a time and a place to speak whatever comes to your mind, and in front of other people's children is quite obviously not one of them? specially if they look up to you!
So its ok for dads to f an blind infront of their kids at games? But not for a footballer to swear at his mate?
He's a footballer not a priest.
As for time and place. At a football match?
This may come as a shock to some but adults swear, in public. Footballers included.
Well cheers for highlighting me out out context Rich
How about ......
It's not group specific. Just black kids and a smaller number of white kids who talk "gangsta"
puts a slightly different slant on it.
Don't mark me down as "ignorant". I've always been interested in accents. We all have one.
I've not studied the subject, like Lynus has, but I'm good at guessing where people come from, just by the way they speak.
I remember chatting to a northern stranger once (I'm a namby pamby shandy-drinking soothener ). He insisted I wouldn't be able to guess where he came from. "Barnsley, Yorkshire" said I. "No" said he...."I live three miles outside of Barnsley".
The Australian accent is an interesting one. It's based on Norfolk/Suffolk. Not a lot of people know that.
SO , with all the speech, race and language analysis going on....shall we get back to the topic?
Below is the response I received from The Arsenal within 24 hours of my initial email to them.
It shows they are not happy and want to show they care about The Arsenals image and how they are portrayed, imo.
Do you all agree and if you've read or heard of the twatty tweets going on do you agree that Eastmond is trash with the morals and ideas of a Cashley Cole C**T which is everything that is wrong with modern day footballers and society today?
Dear Macca,
I wonder if I can ask a favour of you. I would very much like to contact the father of the young boy concerned as we wish to liaise directly with him. I can see that my previous reply was posted on the Online Gooner under this topic. I wonder if you would be so kind as to post the following message for me;
“AJAAFC – The Club would very much like to speak with you regarding the incident at Underhill. If you would be so kind as to call the Arsenal switchboard on 0207 619 **** and ask for Penny, we would like to offer your son something as way of a goodwill gesture and demonstrate that the Club can act with classâ€
"Olgit
Not group specific, just black kids and a smaller number of white kids.
talk gangsta."
I brushed you and coaster with the same brush, because my understanding of that statement meant black kids and some white kids talk 'gangsta' and that accent doesn't necessarily reflect socio-economic background.
That statement is the same as "not being group specific, just Irish and some english guys are gingers"
However a bit harsh on my part to mark you as ignorant, as I was obviously trying to dig out the racist in you
Its seems that the club are very concerned that the image is being tarnished but it feels strange that they have to offer you some sort of compensaion. Wouldnt you be more happy if you found out that they had a bollocking and maybe had the chips knocked off both shoulders!!!
Dont know that they are born.....
worthing gooner wrote:Its seems that the club are very concerned that the image is being tarnished but it feels strange that they have to offer you some sort of compensaion. Wouldnt you be more happy if you found out that they had a bollocking and maybe had the chips knocked off both shoulders!!!
Dont know that they are born.....
I have not spoken to them yet (thanks for the message macca) - but I agree that the compensation is probably against the overall point I was trying to make. Not even sure what it is yet... but I'll probably decline as it's unecessary.
MadRich wrote:"Olgit
Not group specific, just black kids and a smaller number of white kids.
talk gangsta."
I brushed you and coaster with the same brush, because my understanding of that statement meant black kids and some white kids talk 'gangsta' and that accent doesn't necessarily reflect socio-economic background.
That statement is the same as "not being group specific, just Irish and some english guys are gingers"
However a bit harsh on my part to mark you as ignorant, as I was obviously trying to dig out the racist in you
Nice try mate. I don't follow your logic. But I do appreciate the light hearted apology.
The OP decided to write in and complain fair enough, it happened to him and he pulled them at the time,but you were not there didn't see it or know first hand if its even true however you make yourself busy and report it.
Theres a word for people like you and it's GRASS,who on the totem pole of life rate only marginally above rapists and nonce's.
