A genuine question for Wenger supporters

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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clockender1
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Post by clockender1 »

Number 5 wrote: Well that is just not true is it?

Explain please how we managed to compete with United from like, 98-06 then? They have always been mega rich.

he inherited the best back four in world football & Bergkamp and added Vieira and Henry for nothing...

Arsenal stopped being able to really compete when United started to pay 30million for muppets like Ferdinand.

I completely agree that on the whole the youth policy has failed - cole, fabgregas, gibbs, and wilshire, just haven't been enough nor will they.

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augie
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Post by augie »

kiwomya wrote:
Gunner4LiF3 wrote:As long as we stay competitive and near the top I personally will be happy.

It's not all about winning the Premiership or the CL anymore. Sadly we cannot compete with the artificially rich City, United, Chelsea, Real and Barca.

The sooner you people accept this the better. Unless we get a rich owner willing to put his own money in to Arsenal we will not win a meaningful trophy for the foreseeable future .
Wasted on here mate.

Right it is clear that ye have drawn your line in the sand but answer me this -

1. Does performances and results v fulham/blackburn/wolves reflect what you would call a competitive team ? I am picking out just 4 fixtures there but I could also cite narrow lucky or scrappy wins v sunderland/qpr/bolton(who were very much in it until red card) and games v marseille and dortmund away.

2. Why is it money seems to be the reason why we cant challenge the clubs you listed but doesnt seem to count for fcuk all when we play against teams who are nowhere near as wealthy as we are ?

3. How is money affecting our lack of tactics ?

4. How is money affecting our lack of passion ?

5. How is it that we seem to appear rigid on our wage ceiling but yet have continually blown the ceiling off when discussing new deals for our manager ?

6. Why do we continue to make transfer profits ? When the victims sold torres they immediately re-invested those proceeds to bring in 3 or 4 players so why have we continually failed to do the same ? Selling some of your better players happens sometimes but it is absolutely vital that you then re-assert your big club status by bringing in replacement talented players - failure to do so suggests a selling club that cannot attract new talent :cry: :cry:

Why are we wasting so much money on deadwood and why are we not ruthless enough to get rid of the shite ?

For me it is all too convenient for fans like you to make our complaints all about a lack of trophies cos it ignores so many issues that should be corrected long before now. Improvement is what I want and if that leads to a trophy then well and good but getting better should be the minimum target and we aint nowhere near

RoscommonGooner
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Post by RoscommonGooner »

augie wrote:
kiwomya wrote:
Gunner4LiF3 wrote:As long as we stay competitive and near the top I personally will be happy.

It's not all about winning the Premiership or the CL anymore. Sadly we cannot compete with the artificially rich City, United, Chelsea, Real and Barca.

The sooner you people accept this the better. Unless we get a rich owner willing to put his own money in to Arsenal we will not win a meaningful trophy for the foreseeable future .
Wasted on here mate.

Right it is clear that ye have drawn your line in the sand but answer me this -

1. Does performances and results v fulham/blackburn/wolves reflect what you would call a competitive team ? I am picking out just 4 fixtures there but I could also cite narrow lucky or scrappy wins v sunderland/qpr/bolton(who were very much in it until red card) and games v marseille and dortmund away.

2. Why is it money seems to be the reason why we cant challenge the clubs you listed but doesnt seem to count for fcuk all when we play against teams who are nowhere near as wealthy as we are ?

3. How is money affecting our lack of tactics ?

4. How is money affecting our lack of passion ?

5. How is it that we seem to appear rigid on our wage ceiling but yet have continually blown the ceiling off when discussing new deals for our manager ?

6. Why do we continue to make transfer profits ? When the victims sold torres they immediately re-invested those proceeds to bring in 3 or 4 players so why have we continually failed to do the same ? Selling some of your better players happens sometimes but it is absolutely vital that you then re-assert your big club status by bringing in replacement talented players - failure to do so suggests a selling club that cannot attract new talent :cry: :cry:

Why are we wasting so much money on deadwood and why are we not ruthless enough to get rid of the shite ?

For me it is all too convenient for fans like you to make our complaints all about a lack of trophies cos it ignores so many issues that should be corrected long before now. Improvement is what I want and if that leads to a trophy then well and good but getting better should be the minimum target and we aint nowhere near
Woo-hoo :barscarf:

:high5:

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Number 5
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Post by Number 5 »

clockender1 wrote:
Number 5 wrote: Well that is just not true is it?

Explain please how we managed to compete with United from like, 98-06 then? They have always been mega rich.

he inherited the best back four in world football & Bergkamp and added Vieira and Henry for nothing...

Arsenal stopped being able to really compete when United started to pay 30million for muppets like Ferdinand.


I completely agree that on the whole the youth policy has failed - cole, fabgregas, gibbs, and wilshire, just haven't been enough nor will they.
Well that is just not true is it? :wink:

In 2001/2002 season United signed Van Nistelrooy for nigh on £20m and Veron for close to £30m. We still went onto win the league that season, added 2 more FA Cups and another league title without any of the best back four in world football for a few years after while Utd were making their extravagant purchases including Ferdinand and Rooney.

I was a big fan of the 2007/2008 Arsenal team. Up until they collapsed late in the season and we didn't add to the squad the next year I really though Wenger was still the man to take on Chelsea and United no matter how much money they threw at players.

Since then I firmly believe it has been a heavy mixture of negligence, arrogance and stubbornness that have brought us to our knees more than it has come from £30m extravagent signings at other clubs.

mikeyb772001
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Post by mikeyb772001 »

augie wrote:
kiwomya wrote:
Gunner4LiF3 wrote:As long as we stay competitive and near the top I personally will be happy.

It's not all about winning the Premiership or the CL anymore. Sadly we cannot compete with the artificially rich City, United, Chelsea, Real and Barca.

The sooner you people accept this the better. Unless we get a rich owner willing to put his own money in to Arsenal we will not win a meaningful trophy for the foreseeable future .
Wasted on here mate.

Right it is clear that ye have drawn your line in the sand but answer me this -

1. Does performances and results v fulham/blackburn/wolves reflect what you would call a competitive team ? I am picking out just 4 fixtures there but I could also cite narrow lucky or scrappy wins v sunderland/qpr/bolton(who were very much in it until red card) and games v marseille and dortmund away.

2. Why is it money seems to be the reason why we cant challenge the clubs you listed but doesnt seem to count for fcuk all when we play against teams who are nowhere near as wealthy as we are ?

3. How is money affecting our lack of tactics ?

4. How is money affecting our lack of passion ?

5. How is it that we seem to appear rigid on our wage ceiling but yet have continually blown the ceiling off when discussing new deals for our manager ?

6. Why do we continue to make transfer profits ? When the victims sold torres they immediately re-invested those proceeds to bring in 3 or 4 players so why have we continually failed to do the same ? Selling some of your better players happens sometimes but it is absolutely vital that you then re-assert your big club status by bringing in replacement talented players - failure to do so suggests a selling club that cannot attract new talent :cry: :cry:

Why are we wasting so much money on deadwood and why are we not ruthless enough to get rid of the shite ?

For me it is all too convenient for fans like you to make our complaints all about a lack of trophies cos it ignores so many issues that should be corrected long before now. Improvement is what I want and if that leads to a trophy then well and good but getting better should be the minimum target and we aint nowhere near

PLEASE O PLEASE O PLEASE!!!!! Argue with this.....!!!!!

YOU CANT! :barscarf:

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HashKads
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Post by HashKads »

augie wrote:
kiwomya wrote:
Gunner4LiF3 wrote:As long as we stay competitive and near the top I personally will be happy.

It's not all about winning the Premiership or the CL anymore. Sadly we cannot compete with the artificially rich City, United, Chelsea, Real and Barca.

The sooner you people accept this the better. Unless we get a rich owner willing to put his own money in to Arsenal we will not win a meaningful trophy for the foreseeable future .
Wasted on here mate.

Right it is clear that ye have drawn your line in the sand but answer me this -

1. Does performances and results v fulham/blackburn/wolves reflect what you would call a competitive team ? I am picking out just 4 fixtures there but I could also cite narrow lucky or scrappy wins v sunderland/qpr/bolton(who were very much in it until red card) and games v marseille and dortmund away.

2. Why is it money seems to be the reason why we cant challenge the clubs you listed but doesnt seem to count for fcuk all when we play against teams who are nowhere near as wealthy as we are ?

3. How is money affecting our lack of tactics ?

4. How is money affecting our lack of passion ?

5. How is it that we seem to appear rigid on our wage ceiling but yet have continually blown the ceiling off when discussing new deals for our manager ?

6. Why do we continue to make transfer profits ? When the victims sold torres they immediately re-invested those proceeds to bring in 3 or 4 players so why have we continually failed to do the same ? Selling some of your better players happens sometimes but it is absolutely vital that you then re-assert your big club status by bringing in replacement talented players - failure to do so suggests a selling club that cannot attract new talent :cry: :cry:

Why are we wasting so much money on deadwood and why are we not ruthless enough to get rid of the shite ?

For me it is all too convenient for fans like you to make our complaints all about a lack of trophies cos it ignores so many issues that should be corrected long before now. Improvement is what I want and if that leads to a trophy then well and good but getting better should be the minimum target and we aint nowhere near
Brilliant post Augie.

clockender1
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Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:53 pm

Post by clockender1 »

Number 5 wrote:
Since then I firmly believe it has been a heavy mixture of negligence, arrogance and stubbornness that have brought us to our knees more than it has come from £30m extravagent signings at other clubs.
your memory is better than mine mate, I was using Ferdinand (who has and will always be shite) as a general example - looking it up on Wikipedia, manyoo bought Saha,Ronaldo, Alan Smith and Heinze in 2003, and then Rooney for 27million and Pique for free in 2004.

that is where we started to fall behind (and when RA bought chelski) - but I agree completely, our failure has been a combination of several things as you say - stubborness, arrogance, etc.

I am not overjoyed with wenger - no Plan B, no set piece training, no videos, not ruthless enough with young players etc... BUT I don't see who would have done better or could do better, having spent that little money :

look at the Net Spend since 2003 :

Image

now, I accept what the other posters have said too, that we waste a shed load of money on keeping dross way way too long ( compare Song to Petit, for example in terms of skill in the same role), but really we haven't splashed the cash - until at the last minute this summer.

so we're playing catch up - whether we will, who knows but i've been supporting Arsenal since 1977 and we've gone up and down. I hope we come back up, if we continue to spend money and Arsene starts to accept his mistakes.

If he doesn't accept his mistakes, then I agree we are a second tier side until we fail to make 4th and then he's gone.

:barscarf:

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Number 5
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Post by Number 5 »

Fucking hell, how have Blackburn turned such a massive transfer profit?

I can't think of one player they sold on for a massive fee, even Bentley we got half of. :shock:

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skipper
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Post by skipper »

Gunner4LiF3 wrote:As long as we stay competitive and near the top I personally will be happy.

It's not all about winning the Premiership or the CL anymore. Sadly we cannot compete with the artificially rich City, United, Chelsea, Real and Barca.

The sooner you people accept this the better. Unless we get a rich owner willing to put his own money in to Arsenal we will not win a meaningful trophy for the foreseeable future .
So you're saying that Wenger is average manager who got lucky with few key signings in past?!

clockender1
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Post by clockender1 »

just to extend my point above, check out who and when and what for we bought since 2004 :

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier ... sfers.html

in 2004 we bought Almunia, Eboue and Flamini - Apart from one good season, that's a fail..but we spent 3 1/2 million.

in 2005 we bought in nine players, of whom only Adebayor was 'invincible' quality IMHO.

in 2006, we bought eight players, of whom only Gallas worked out.

from 2007-2010, only Sagna, Ramsay, Vermaelen and Kos have worked out.

basically, we are cheap skates and we got what we paid for - that said, I can't believe we got 10 million for Bentley, 8 million for Reyes, and 12 million for Hleb !

Cheers

c1

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