The Gooner Forum

There were fourteen convictions for the death's that night in Belgium.
They were found guilty of 'involuntary manslaughter' and each was imprisoned for three years.

flash gunner wrote:

SammyDroppedHisShorts wrote:HEYSEL

Justice for the 39

Was there a single liverpool fan named/convicted of chasing those poor italians into that wall?

I believe that the structural deficiencies at the stadium completely exonerated the Liverpool fans.

Anyone know who was responsible for appointing Hillsborough to continually get semi finals when incidents similar to this disaster had taken place previously . Leppings lane was an accident waiting to happen. The ones at the front who died obviously were the innocents , the same cannot be said of the authorities, the stewards, the police and the people behind that forced the crushing on their fellow fans.

potter wrote:Anyone know who was responsible for appointing Hillsborough to continually get semi finals when incidents similar to this disaster had taken place previously.

The FA apologised yesterday, 23 years too late but at least they're taking some responsibility now.

What IS Galling amongst this long standing tragedy is this *word censored* fergie is only now calling for an end to sick chants....what a hypocrite

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19602884

He's been manager at manure for 20yrs+ now...he knows full well what chants go on...and now he seems to be admonishing the fans for something he could have spoken out about and against long before now...it was the exact same ploy when that fat manc scum *word censored* made that cd/mp3 about Wenger - when The Gooners brought it to the attention of Football at large only then did fergie *word censored* of a whore say anything.....

He really is detestable

He is a red nosed c**t

Why isn't more made about about the poor people who died and suffered at Bradford's ground fire ?

One rule for Scousers ??

Over the past few days i'm sick of the tripe that gets roiled out for this tragedy,the constant reference to ''justice''...who for?the headlines of cover up!! but whose cover up what? there no mention of prosecution of fans which caused the crush for being late??so who's cover up what or is this a diversion??.As i said before my condolences to the victims and their families as there the innocent ones.

As scouseville do there up most to avoid the Heysel murders etc etc maybe the English clubs which lost european revenue due to the ban which England clubs received because of it should sue Victims FC for for compo?? as we are victims of their fans hooliganism and loss of european cup football in 1990??

I must say that this whole thread is a rather depressing read.

People are still trotting out the Sun Newspaper line of Scouse hatred even though they have been exonerated from blame in this instance, because apparently a bunch of ordinary people from Liverpool have the power to create a whitewash and force unwarranted apologies out of the Prime Minister, Rupert Murdoch and the Police as if they're some sort of great power broker (?/!)

Tripper has done a good job, but sadly this thread is proof positive that you can always get one end of the British working class to bark hatred at another end as long as they have a different accent or wear something different to them - even in this instance if that is merely a different football shirt of a Saturday. However one things for sure, they may bark like Wolves but they in essence act like Sheep - making them nothing more than sheep in wolf's clothing and about as threatening and powerful as that. Proving that, as ever, the world is largely a tyranny of the stupid ruled by the people clever enough to manipulate their stupidity.

Oh, and by the way - if you want a common denominator between Heysel and Hillsborough, I think you'll find they were both big matches in the 80s that were badly policed with enormous failure and callous disregard from the authorities of the time - a lot like many a big game from the 80s. In the words of the Isley Brothers - if you were there, you'd know. If Liverpool supporters were present at both it's because they were the dominant side of the era and hence involved in big matches on a frequent basis. I suppose Liverpool fans were at fault for Bradford too, FFS!

Oh and by the way - no I'm not a Scouser (oh, what an imaginative way of disregarding the bloke!). In fact I supported Arsenal throughout the 80s, watching from a fenceless North Bank. Never mind only 50 people dying if the authorities did their job, if the FA were such a bunch of arrogant arseholes and actually listened to the Arsenal instead of ban us from holding Semi Finals for not putting up a fence, not one Football fan would have died - Scouser or otherwise. But fuck 'em they're only a bunch of proletarian oiks. Let's see this as a green light to put in seats and price them out!

You make it sound like hooliganism never existed and was only some sort of propaganda akin to what you would witness in china or the old soviet union It was a different time back then and most clubs had a gang element, often out of necessity as much as anything else, and this was generally deemed acceptable to the football community where as nowadays such an element would be hunted down and executed on the spot However just cos it was commonplace back then and cos it was a more "civilised" form of fighting (no guns and rarely knives) doesn't make everything that went on right. As is always the case innocent people are usually the ones that suffered - hooligans often picked on innocents who happened to support opposition teams, the cops often picked on innocent fans who played no part in the fights cos it was easier than going into the heart of the battle and of course the innocent scousers who turned up on time to support their team in a cup semi lost their lives cos hundreds of their fellow scousers turned up late, tried to ram the gates open and then crushed those poor supporters to their death These scouse c**ts that turned up late and caused that crush should have been paraded down the streets of Liverpool and made to apologise for their actions to the families of those that they killed. Maybe if that would have happened then we wouldn't have seen those c**ts behave in a similar manner since like they did in Athens but apologists like you defend them and justify their actions which in turn gives them a green light to do the very same thing again

Never Outgunned wrote: Oh, and by the way - if you want a common denominator between Heysel and Hillsborough, I think you'll find they were both big matches in the 80s that were badly policed with enormous failure and callous disregard from the authorities of the time - a lot like many a big game from the 80s.

The fact that so many similar matches passed without incident in the 80s hardly disproves the idea that although there were mass failings on behalf of those responsible for organising and controlling the event (as everybody acknowledges), for the tragedy to manifest itself in this way required an additional element: the behaviour of a minority of Liverpool fans.

Why anybody would try and blame the innocent souls at the front who were crushed is beyond me. There were a disproportionate number of women and children there, and they were clearly the ones who'd arrived in plenty of time and with tickets. But the fact that the police facilitated this tragedy happening and then disgracefully lied does not fully exonerate every single Liverpool fan. Footage BBC were playing of the day this week showed Liverpool fans climbing over walls to get in and pushing at the gates, not dissimilar to their behaviour at Wembley in 1986 and in the CL final a matter of years ago.

I'm not trying to antagonise anybody by coming out with incendiary remarks that they killed their own or anything like that at all, merely saying that the past week's events doesn't fully exonerate all Liverpool fans. The police's actions in no way affect Justice Taylor's accepted finding that many fans turned up without tickets and late, and the footage of how fans were behaving outside the ground is there for all to see. I would like nothing more than the poor families of those 96 people to find the closest thing to justice that you can get in the case of a loss of human life, but in this case that means bringing those responsible for the event and the cover-up in front of a judge and not re-writing facts.

Liverpool fans have taken to facebook and other social media outlets to A) laugh about the fact that their fans sang about "having a party when Thatcher dies " at Sunderland on Saturday and B) complaining about ManUre fans singing "always a victim , never your fault " at Old Trafford on Saturday. Good God when will these morons grow up ? There are no football fans who can take the moral high ground on chanting. But expect to receive what you dish out. The chant at Old Trafford is from last season and was a anti Dalglish chant, not a Hillsborough one. Rotten timing by Manure fans but it seems Liverpool fans will continue to pick what they want from everything .

Bradywasking wrote:Liverpool fans have taken to facebook and other social media outlets to A) laugh about the fact that their fans sang about "having a party when Thatcher dies " at Sunderland on Saturday and B) complaining about ManUre fans singing "always a victim , never your fault " at Old Trafford on Saturday. Good God when will these morons grow up ? There are no football fans who can take the moral high ground on chanting. But expect to receive what you dish out. The chant at Old Trafford is from last season and was a anti Dalglish chant, not a Hillsborough one. Rotten timing by Manure fans but it seems Liverpool fans will continue to pick what they want from everything .

I'm sorry but that is bollocks. Singing that song after Hillsborough has been in the news so much this week only had one aim, and that was serviced by the fact that every single United fan that phoned into 909 begrudgingly accepted that there were anti-Hillsborough chants, and that the club accepted that in an official statement. MUST's statement claiming that they weren't to do with Hillsborough and mentioning Munich as well to attempt to portray their fans in a light no worse than any others was aimed at making moronic United fans feel better about themselves and to give them something to sling at Liverpool fans in the run-up to next weekend, don't get dragged in by it.

northbank123 wrote:

Bradywasking wrote:Liverpool fans have taken to facebook and other social media outlets to A) laugh about the fact that their fans sang about "having a party when Thatcher dies " at Sunderland on Saturday and B) complaining about ManUre fans singing "always a victim , never your fault " at Old Trafford on Saturday. Good God when will these morons grow up ? There are no football fans who can take the moral high ground on chanting. But expect to receive what you dish out. The chant at Old Trafford is from last season and was a anti Dalglish chant, not a Hillsborough one. Rotten timing by Manure fans but it seems Liverpool fans will continue to pick what they want from everything .

I'm sorry but that is bollocks. Singing that song after Hillsborough has been in the news so much this week only had one aim, and that was serviced by the fact that every single United fan that phoned into 909 begrudgingly accepted that there were anti-Hillsborough chants, and that the club accepted that in an official statement. MUST's statement claiming that they weren't to do with Hillsborough and mentioning Munich as well to attempt to portray their fans in a light no worse than any others was aimed at making moronic United fans feel better about themselves and to give them something to sling at Liverpool fans in the run-up to next weekend, don't get dragged in by it.

I'm not being dragged into it, and you are right it is bollocks, I am not condoning the United fans for any Hillsborough reference on Saturday or any day. What I am saying is how can Liverpool fans take the moral high ground on chants at Old Trafford when a few hours later they were laughing at the chanting about the future death of someone else. I did say the timing of those chants was rotten , the chant itself was first heard at Sunderland last season in response to Dalglish's antics. I hate the United fan's Wenger song, I hate that club for failing to act on it for many years, what i was saying or trying to point out was the hypocrisy of Liverpool fans complaining about chants then indulging in them later.

Bradywasking wrote:

northbank123 wrote:

Bradywasking wrote:Liverpool fans have taken to facebook and other social media outlets to A) laugh about the fact that their fans sang about "having a party when Thatcher dies " at Sunderland on Saturday and B) complaining about ManUre fans singing "always a victim , never your fault " at Old Trafford on Saturday. Good God when will these morons grow up ? There are no football fans who can take the moral high ground on chanting. But expect to receive what you dish out. The chant at Old Trafford is from last season and was a anti Dalglish chant, not a Hillsborough one. Rotten timing by Manure fans but it seems Liverpool fans will continue to pick what they want from everything .

I'm sorry but that is bollocks. Singing that song after Hillsborough has been in the news so much this week only had one aim, and that was serviced by the fact that every single United fan that phoned into 909 begrudgingly accepted that there were anti-Hillsborough chants, and that the club accepted that in an official statement. MUST's statement claiming that they weren't to do with Hillsborough and mentioning Munich as well to attempt to portray their fans in a light no worse than any others was aimed at making moronic United fans feel better about themselves and to give them something to sling at Liverpool fans in the run-up to next weekend, don't get dragged in by it.

I'm not being dragged into it, and you are right it is bollocks, I am not condoning the United fans for any Hillsborough reference on Saturday or any day. What I am saying is how can Liverpool fans take the moral high ground on chants at Old Trafford when a few hours later they were laughing at the chanting about the future death of someone else. I did say the timing of those chants was rotten , the chant itself was first heard at Sunderland last season in response to Dalglish's antics. I hate the United fan's Wenger song, I hate that club for failing to act on it for many years, what i was saying or trying to point out was the hypocrisy of Liverpool fans complaining about chants then indulging in them later.

I wouldn't say the timing was rotten, I would say it was calculated. If other United fans at the game construed it as being anti-Hillsborough than that says it all.

I do agree they are massively hypocritical (more so than most), and thinking about the chants that even we have heard about Wenger and Eduardo shows that most teams are as bad as each other. But while I'm against portraying Liverpool fans as angels and completely disagree that their fans have been exonerated from any blame in Hillsborough by this week's findings, for me the actions of United fans on Saturday were significantly worse than the other tit-for-tat that goes on, and that needs to be recognised.

As you mention the inaction about the Wenger chants, that's what really fucks me off. It's fucking useless for the club to come out and say they admonish those chanting vile songs, but the truth is they know it happens, and other fans and the stewards can hear it happening. Their statement after Saturday's game should have had been able to add something on the end that they ejected x people from the ground and are going to face bans from OT. It's not enough to say that the chants are wrong but suggest it's up to the individuals to moderate themselves and listen to Ferguson's belated pleas, the club knows it happens so it's up to them to actually eject people and give them bans.