Maggie Thatcher Dead

[DB10GOONER]

Sorry Don, have to jump in there. It's a myth that Major or Blair did anything to initiate the peace process as indeed it's a myth that Clinton did. One man initiated the process and did it when it wasn't a popular thing to do. That man was John Hume and he was initially rebuked and criticized for sitting down and talking to both sides of the sectarian divide by Major in particular. But Hume kept trying to bring the real power brokers in the North on board. Then when the politicians in England and Ireland saw that it might just work if everyone was included they all jumped on the bandwagon. Hume was then a major organiser of the unofficial talks between the British government and Sinn Féin, in effort to bring Sinn Féin to the discussion table openly. Those talks led directly to the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985. He was then a key part of the talks that delivered the 1994 IRA ceasefire which ultimately led to the Good Friday agreement. So many politicians took credit for his ideas and his work it is sickening.

Met him in RTE studios in Dublin once and he is an absolute gent. A very humble and decent man.

WHAT!!! You mean it wasn't Bono??

Quality RG, Quality.

I think Bono was initially busy curing AIDS that week and then when it was all falling down in NI he thankfully jumped in and brought peace to Oireland.

And then wrote a shit song about it. The bastard.

[flash gunner]

Sorry Don, have to jump in there. It's a myth that Major or Blair did anything to initiate the peace process as indeed it's a myth that Clinton did. One man initiated the process and did it when it wasn't a popular thing to do. That man was John Hume and he was initially rebuked and criticized for sitting down and talking to both sides of the sectarian divide by Major in particular. But Hume kept trying to bring the real power brokers in the North on board. Then when the politicians in England and Ireland saw that it might just work if everyone was included they all jumped on the bandwagon. Hume was then a major organiser of the unofficial talks between the British government and Sinn Féin, in effort to bring Sinn Féin to the discussion table openly. Those talks led directly to the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985. He was then a key part of the talks that delivered the 1994 IRA ceasefire which ultimately led to the Good Friday agreement. So many politicians took credit for his ideas and his work it is sickening.

Met him in RTE studios in Dublin once and he is an absolute gent. A very humble and decent man.

WHAT!!! You mean it wasn't Bono??

Quality RG, Quality.

I think Bono was initially busy curing AIDS that week and then when it was all falling down in NI he thankfully jumped in and brought peace to Oireland.

And then wrote a shit song about it. The bastard.

Was it 'Sunday Bloody Sunday'? What a great song. It really encapsulates the frustration of a Sunday, doesn't it? You wake up in the morning, you've got to read all the Sunday papers, the kids are running round, you've got to mow the lawn, wash the car, and you think "Sunday, bloody Sunday!".

[LDB]

Huge celebrations in Derry last night and from what I can gather, in many parts of the UK.

hope they had a good night. My dad hardly ever drinks anymore but as soon as he heard the news he texted me saying "the bitch is dead, party time". By the time I got back from work he had been in the pub for a few hours having a celebratory drink. I understand the point that some of the changes were going to happen anyway (albeit the mines if modernised and ran properly could have remained open longer than they did but still, no one who worked down the mines really wanted that life for their kids) but it was the callous way that the bitch make the changes that pissed so many people off. Basically the north east (and many other areas) were never going to vote Tory anyway so she didn't give a fuck, the mines were closed and the areas were left to rot, many still haven't recovered.

Personally, I'm hoping to move to Sunderland so I can move in with my girlfirend and her kid but when I look for work there is fuck all (I'm a commercial manager in Scotland and there are very few small private companies doing well in the city that I could try to move to). If I want to work part time in a shop (like me lass does) or if I want to feel like a battery hen and put my hand up when I need a piss working in a call centre then there's jobs to be had like, thats the service industry for ya, part time work on shit pay.

She brought Nissan in (well, she didn't really, she tried to take Nissan to South Wales but Nissan wanted to see other possible sites and the labour led tyne and wear council made it happen in the north east but still) but that was one employer, yes it employs a good few people but nothing like the jobs that have been lost.

Don't get me wrong, its not all Thatchers fault and I am far from a left winger, Labour are a fucking shambles as well and in many ways they care as little about the region as the Tories did. Stupid people keep voting them in ("my dad voted for them, my granddad voted for them and I hate the Tories so I'm voting for them" type attitude) and as a result they have as little reason to help the area as Thatcher did. She knew they'd never vote for her so fuck them, labour know they'll always vote for them so fuck them, both would rather spend money making a difference in marginal areas. I'd actually be more likely to vote Conservative than Labour if I was in the region, if enough people do it the safe labour councilors might actually get off their fat arses and do something.

There is blame all round but that didn't stop my dad having a good night out. He remembers the way the miners were vilified (described as "the enemy within"), he remembers people who didn't have much money themselves buying food for striking miners and being smacked about by the police who were basically being used as Thatcher's private army, he remembers people being arrested for "picket line offences" and he remembers a proud area, with proud men working in conditions that today's primarily office based workers wouldn't last half a shift in being torn apart and left to decay. He remembers some of the same proud working men hanging themselves due to the shame of not being able to work and provide for their families. Walking round parts of the north east, an area close to my heart due to my dad being from a working class area in Newcastle and my mam being from a working class area in Sunderland, is gutting. The community spirit has been broken, large areas are dilapidated with very little investment and proud, working areas have been reduced to drugs ridden hell holes with people on benefits with very little prospects queuing up to get into the pub when it opens. Its not all Thatcher's fault, of course its not, but she had a hand in it and I can absolutely understand people hating her for it.

There are many ghost towns in America from where the industry of that town became out of date and people got on their bikes to move where the work is. It's not nice to force families to displace from their roots and no sane human likes it but It's a harsh fact of industrial progress that certain industries get left behind and replaced, the difference is that in this country people stay put and expect the rest of the country to prop them up. Maybe if more people had got on their bikes and moved to the work we wouldn't have spent the last 15 years flooding the country with migrant labour. There have been efforts to provide work in these areas, I can see this by the way I have to send any correspondence with the government to fucking Liverpool or some such place but this can only get you so far, as you seem to realise.

It's not nice and it's not fair but life is rarely either of those

[LDB]

Sorry Don, have to jump in there. It's a myth that Major or Blair did anything to initiate the peace process as indeed it's a myth that Clinton did. One man initiated the process and did it when it wasn't a popular thing to do. That man was John Hume and he was initially rebuked and criticized for sitting down and talking to both sides of the sectarian divide by Major in particular. But Hume kept trying to bring the real power brokers in the North on board. Then when the politicians in England and Ireland saw that it might just work if everyone was included they all jumped on the bandwagon. Hume was then a major organiser of the unofficial talks between the British government and Sinn Féin, in effort to bring Sinn Féin to the discussion table openly. Those talks led directly to the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985. He was then a key part of the talks that delivered the 1994 IRA ceasefire which ultimately led to the Good Friday agreement. So many politicians took credit for his ideas and his work it is sickening.

Met him in RTE studios in Dublin once and he is an absolute gent. A very humble and decent man.

WHAT!!! You mean it wasn't Bono??

Quality RG, Quality.

I think Bono was initially busy curing AIDS that week and then when it was all falling down in NI he thankfully jumped in and brought peace to Oireland.

And then wrote a shit song about it. The bastard.

Was it 'Sunday Bloody Sunday'? What a great song. It really encapsulates the frustration of a Sunday, doesn't it? You wake up in the morning, you've got to read all the Sunday papers, the kids are running round, you've got to mow the lawn, wash the car, and you think "Sunday, bloody Sunday!".

Classic Partridge

[topgoon]

Falklands war MK? I'd say thats one of the few things she actually did well

It was her policies that caused the Falklands war...!!

And why was she so willing to sacrifice so many lives in defence of a small group of farmers on the other side of the world while at the same time destroying whole communities in our own back yard...

Sorry mate, I hate her but we have a duty to protect British land and it's people, regardless where it is. The Flaklands was something she did right. That's about all she did right.

Jeesus Christ something we actually agree on.

As far as the iron lady goes she lived, she was loved, she was hated and she died.

The world has moved on, hopefully this country will one day move on from the ridiculous adulation some of her policies get despite the damage they did then and now.

Here's a sobering thought all of us on here born in the 70s will forever be known as Thatcher's children..(He shivers)

RIP Maggie Thatcher milk snatcher...even you deserve that.

[DB10GOONER]

Sorry Don, have to jump in there. It's a myth that Major or Blair did anything to initiate the peace process as indeed it's a myth that Clinton did. One man initiated the process and did it when it wasn't a popular thing to do. That man was John Hume and he was initially rebuked and criticized for sitting down and talking to both sides of the sectarian divide by Major in particular. But Hume kept trying to bring the real power brokers in the North on board. Then when the politicians in England and Ireland saw that it might just work if everyone was included they all jumped on the bandwagon. Hume was then a major organiser of the unofficial talks between the British government and Sinn Féin, in effort to bring Sinn Féin to the discussion table openly. Those talks led directly to the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985. He was then a key part of the talks that delivered the 1994 IRA ceasefire which ultimately led to the Good Friday agreement. So many politicians took credit for his ideas and his work it is sickening.

Met him in RTE studios in Dublin once and he is an absolute gent. A very humble and decent man.

WHAT!!! You mean it wasn't Bono??

Quality RG, Quality.

I think Bono was initially busy curing AIDS that week and then when it was all falling down in NI he thankfully jumped in and brought peace to Oireland.

And then wrote a shit song about it. The bastard.

Was it 'Sunday Bloody Sunday'? What a great song. It really encapsulates the frustration of a Sunday, doesn't it? You wake up in the morning, you've got to read all the Sunday papers, the kids are running round, you've got to mow the lawn, wash the car, and you think "Sunday, bloody Sunday!".

At the end of the day, they will pay the price for being a fussy eater. If they could afford to emigrate, they could afford to eat at a modest restaurant.

[flash gunner]

There's not a thread on here that doesn't deserve a Partridge quote or two

[northbank123]

There's not a thread on here that doesn't deserve a Partridge quote or two

Have you read the book? Was a bit sceptical about the concept of it being written in character but it was actually fucking hilarious.

[QuartzGooner]

Huge celebrations in Derry last night and from what I can gather, in many parts of the UK.

hope they had a good night. My dad hardly ever drinks anymore but as soon as he heard the news he texted me saying "the bitch is dead, party time". By the time I got back from work he had been in the pub for a few hours having a celebratory drink. I understand the point that some of the changes were going to happen anyway (albeit the mines if modernised and ran properly could have remained open longer than they did but still, no one who worked down the mines really wanted that life for their kids) but it was the callous way that the bitch make the changes that pissed so many people off. Basically the north east (and many other areas) were never going to vote Tory anyway so she didn't give a fuck, the mines were closed and the areas were left to rot, many still haven't recovered.

Personally, I'm hoping to move to Sunderland so I can move in with my girlfirend and her kid but when I look for work there is fuck all (I'm a commercial manager in Scotland and there are very few small private companies doing well in the city that I could try to move to). If I want to work part time in a shop (like me lass does) or if I want to feel like a battery hen and put my hand up when I need a piss working in a call centre then there's jobs to be had like, thats the service industry for ya, part time work on shit pay.

She brought Nissan in (well, she didn't really, she tried to take Nissan to South Wales but Nissan wanted to see other possible sites and the labour led tyne and wear council made it happen in the north east but still) but that was one employer, yes it employs a good few people but nothing like the jobs that have been lost.

Don't get me wrong, its not all Thatchers fault and I am far from a left winger, Labour are a fucking shambles as well and in many ways they care as little about the region as the Tories did. Stupid people keep voting them in ("my dad voted for them, my granddad voted for them and I hate the Tories so I'm voting for them" type attitude) and as a result they have as little reason to help the area as Thatcher did. She knew they'd never vote for her so fuck them, labour know they'll always vote for them so fuck them, both would rather spend money making a difference in marginal areas. I'd actually be more likely to vote Conservative than Labour if I was in the region, if enough people do it the safe labour councilors might actually get off their fat arses and do something.

There is blame all round but that didn't stop my dad having a good night out. He remembers the way the miners were vilified (described as "the enemy within"), he remembers people who didn't have much money themselves buying food for striking miners and being smacked about by the police who were basically being used as Thatcher's private army, he remembers people being arrested for "picket line offences" and he remembers a proud area, with proud men working in conditions that today's primarily office based workers wouldn't last half a shift in being torn apart and left to decay. He remembers some of the same proud working men hanging themselves due to the shame of not being able to work and provide for their families. Walking round parts of the north east, an area close to my heart due to my dad being from a working class area in Newcastle and my mam being from a working class area in Sunderland, is gutting. The community spirit has been broken, large areas are dilapidated with very little investment and proud, working areas have been reduced to drugs ridden hell holes with people on benefits with very little prospects queuing up to get into the pub when it opens. Its not all Thatcher's fault, of course its not, but she had a hand in it and I can absolutely understand people hating her for it.

There are many ghost towns in America from where the industry of that town became out of date and people got on their bikes to move where the work is. It's not nice to force families to displace from their roots and no sane human likes it but It's a harsh fact of industrial progress that certain industries get left behind and replaced, the difference is that in this country people stay put and expect the rest of the country to prop them up. Maybe if more people had got on their bikes and moved to the work we wouldn't have spent the last 15 years flooding the country with migrant labour. There have been efforts to provide work in these areas, I can see this by the way I have to send any correspondence with the government to fucking Liverpool or some such place but this can only get you so far, as you seem to realise.

It's not nice and it's not fair but life is rarely either of those

I basically think that this medium sized medium population country had it's day when it went out and carved an Empire. Made for very beneficial terms of trade for a load of natural resources that did not exist in the UK itself.
In return the conquered regions got technology and health benefits from scientific progress made here, plus the downside of bloodshed and an arbitrary drawing of international borders that has caused conflicts to this day.

(We had significant advantage too from scientific advances in the UK in the 18th and 19th centuries, the industrial processes involved in manufacturing and coal extraction leading the way.)

Liverpool was rotting under Thatcher, but would it have been much of city without the slave trade and territories conquered under Empire? I ask that as a genuine question, because I have no figures to hand.

Now other countries with better resources, larger populations who will work for less money, and an unnatural work ethic have caught up and are getting ready to overtake Brazil, Russia, India, China etc.

We have to face a future where we will settle back into a middle tier of countries, though with a few special prominences based on our past - computing, financial services, defence manufacturing, creative industries, tourism, football etc.

In the way that immigrants came here to seek a better life, we will increasingly have to go overseas to find work.

In the mean time we witness social tragedy such as described in the North East.

[topgoon]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ister.html

Are you sure Dave ??

As much as you and lots of other people may want to observe a minute's silence is a football stadium, it sounds like a terrible idea.

Wembley will be packed with 25 thousand odd people from Wigan some of whom might have fathers and grand fathers who worked in the Wigan mining industry or 25 thousand odd Millwall fans some of whom would be old enough to remember Maggie's love for the football fan in the 80's. Add a 5:30pm kick off into the mix so it'll be a good deal of merry fans and you expect the silence to be observed.

It won't be and it'll be an excuse for w***ers in fleet street that know nothing about sport to start slagging football fans.

Hope the FA say no thanks to that idea.

It' BS anyway, no other PM has had a minute's silence in recent history so why do it for one that'spolarised opinion so much

[Nos89]

Growing up in Kent with Thatcher as prime minister I thought she served the country well. Obviously, I didn't agree with her policies on id cards for football supporters. That however, has now become the norm. Most clubs in Premier League have membership schemes, requiring personal details whilst cashing in on the emotional loyalty from their supporters. When I moved up to Liverpool, my opinion changed. You could see the remnants of the damage her policies had done. Parts of Lancashire and Merseyside have never fully recovered and still someway behind the small village I grew up in Kent. The duty of the prime minister is protect the lives of all the people in Great Britain. She didn't. She neglected two thirds of the population and because of that I don't believe she should have a ceremonial funeral.
Someone earlier mentioned about Liverpool was built on slavery. That is true, they don't seem to mention that too often. Take a visit to the slavery museum on the docks, however, what's that got to do with thatcher?
Also, I don't believe there should be a minutes silence at any football match. Anyone remember how we were treated like animals under her regime? Seriously, how can we respect that.
The argument that her death should be respected because she was an old, ill woman. She died at the Ritz hotel, not on some gurney in a dilapidated NHS hospital like some people of the same age did back in the late '80's, early '90's because her government ran the NHS into the ground. Come to think of it apart from the Falklands what did she do that was good for the country?

[donaldo]

After his tribute single and performance at Princess Di's funeral its been announced Elton has been invited to perform another one of his hits at the funeral next week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ7YfJ5IbEg

[DB10GOONER]

There's not a thread on here that doesn't deserve a Partridge quote or two

Have you read the book? Was a bit sceptical about the concept of it being written in character but it was actually fucking hilarious.

Me too. Was really dubious about it but he brought the character across in every sentence. Brilliantly cringingly hilarious. Kiss my face!!

[DB10GOONER]

Basically Maggie was a polarising character, you either hated her or loved her. So no matter what the rights and wrongs of her policies etc I think a minutes silence at football grounds is a fucking appallingly stupid idea. It will just be another stick for the media wankers to beat football fans with - because you can bet your bollocks it will not be fully (or even partially) respected in one single ground.

And to be honest, forgetting her political actions/legacy for a moment and just cpncentrating on the way she had her government/police/media treat ALL football fans as if we were mindless hooligan arseholes back in the 80's, it is quite offensive to genuine football fans to suggest holding a minutes silence in football grounds.

[flash gunner]

There's not a thread on here that doesn't deserve a Partridge quote or two

Have you read the book? Was a bit sceptical about the concept of it being written in character but it was actually fucking hilarious.

The book is excellent