THE WENGER THREAD

[highburyJD]

as I said, by all means blame Wenger for his failings: whether they're tactical, overfocusing on the future at the expense of the present, under-rating the importance of the goalie, formational inflexibility, resistance to early subs

but moaning at him for what nearly did or didn't happen is ludicrous, we didn't sign Cech or Yaya because we couldnt get work permits - we were massively outbid on Ronaldo he was totally out of reach (and people forget wasn't that great for first 2 years)
I've heard that neither Mata nor Alonso were ever really on the table and we were being strung along
who knows?
who cares - its just BS speculation.

Obviously many are desperate to slate the manager - use the real ammo
there's plenty

no need to go all Babakalou on us

[DB10GOONER]

as I said, by all means blame Wenger for his failings: whether they're tactical, overfocusing on the future at the expense of the present, under-rating the importance of the goalie, formational inflexibility, resistance to early subs

but moaning at him for what nearly did or didn't happen is ludicrous, we didn't sign Cech or Yaya because we couldnt get work permits - we were massively outbid on Ronaldo he was totally out of reach (and people forget wasn't that great for first 2 years)
I've heard that neither Mata nor Alonso were ever really on the table and we were being strung along
who knows?
who cares - its just BS speculation.

Obviously many are desperate to slate the manager - use the real ammo
there's plenty

no need to go all Babakalou on us

I kind of agree with you to a certain extent, in that what never was, just never was. We signed some, we missed some. Happens to all managers.

But I note you mention Ladyboy and allude to Wenger being right in not taking a chance on him because he was poor for those first 2 years. Yet you probably wouldn't condemn Wenger for persisting with absolute shite like Denilson, Bendtner, Almunia, Flappy, Stepanovs, Comedy Eboue etc etc for years on end and none of them came good. Ladyboy is now in the top 3 players in the world (still a despicable diving kúnt though).

Or maybe you would condemn Wenger for that?

[1989]

Arsene Wenger "nearly" bought Mata, Vertongen, Sahin, Goetze, Lloris, Hazard......

Add ronaldo (the cheating ladyboy version) and yaya toure to that list too

Ibrahimovic, Drogba, Modric, Ben Arfa.

[I Hate Hleb]

as I said, by all means blame Wenger for his failings: whether they're tactical, overfocusing on the future at the expense of the present, under-rating the importance of the goalie, formational inflexibility, resistance to early subs
the guy himself
but moaning at him for what nearly did or didn't happen is ludicrous,...

Perhaps people would stop 'moaning' if Wenger himself didn't keep mentioning these players!! After all, how would fans even know who Arsenal missed out on if the guy wasn't so keen to share the information - as if he deserves some sort of vicarious credit for being aware of an up and coming and potentially great player?

[armchair]

as I said, by all means blame Wenger for his failings: whether they're tactical, overfocusing on the future at the expense of the present, under-rating the importance of the goalie, formational inflexibility, resistance to early subs

but moaning at him for what nearly did or didn't happen is ludicrous..............

Yes quite.
Then on the Canaries thread you say Wenger cant possibly be blamed for "fucking up" a match that hasn't even been played yet so its all the players fault............

far as I'm concerned, this weekend Wenger can pick our #2 available player in every position
do his standard set-up/team talk (4-3-3, go out and have fun)
make pre-set subs (fresh wide forward/midfield legs on 70th min)
and we should win, easily. Norwich are dire.

If this gets fucked up IMO you blame the players not Wenger

Excellent stuff! Keep up the good work. Qualiteeee!

[highburyJD]

I kind of agree with you to a certain extent, in that what never was, just never was. We signed some, we missed some. Happens to all managers.

But I note you mention Ladyboy and allude to Wenger being right in not taking a chance on him because he was poor for those first 2 years. Yet you probably wouldn't condemn Wenger for persisting with absolute shite like Denilson, Bendtner, Almunia, Flappy, Stepanovs, Comedy Eboue etc etc for years on end and none of them came good. Ladyboy is now in the top 3 players in the world (still a despicable diving kúnt though).

Or maybe you would condemn Wenger for that?

I wish we had signed Ronaldo - although we would have prob lost him a season earlier for half as much money...

Denilson - was decent at the beginning, was part of our transition from redarrows counter-attacking team of Bergkamp, Vieira and Henry to the new world of tiki-taka. Had tp be done when every team in the Premier league including the top 4 decided to played 9-1 against us and wait for mistakes. Unfortunately it didnt work (Denilson made the mistakes). But Denilson was the proto-Arteta. We had Stopper/Passer/Creator now Wenger wants the passer to be the creator. We moved one click forward: our midfield 3 will be Passer/Creator/2nd striker.

Bendtner - I was wrong, thought he could make it. Can see why Wenger persisted but again ultimately a failure.

Almunia - inexplicable, massive gaping flaw in Wenger's management. Consistently made errors v ManUre from start of his career to end. Belleti's hit isn't even going in, its an OG (admittedly not a big mistake but it was a pretty big game). Never should have been there. I liked Manninger, how long ago does that signing seem... Flappy started embarrasingly and made key biggame errors: is there a streaker on the pitch? whos that running past Drogba?? Oh our keeper (I slightly let him off that as Wenger had an even worse game) Flappy actually looked good from PartizanBelgrade till his injury, deserved his place. but his game in Porto OMG. I said Song v Fulham was worst performance I've seen - this provides stiff competition.

Stepanovs - to be fair he didnt really 'persist' with him, he was a backup for a season. Never a starter. That horrible 6-1 game at OldTrafford Grimandi (who I loved) was actually the worse player. That game is a terrible memory - paid £80 to watch it on my own in a NY pub at 6am. Was the same day as a Liverpool v Brum CarlingCup final and toward the end the scousers were wandering in and laughing at the score and me. Horrific.

Eboue good in the '06 run to the CL final but his diving was always embarrasing even when he was decent. Then he got shit.

Thats my take on 'persistence' - he also persisted with LB Petit in centre mid (its forgotten he was not convincing initially). Henry up front (and taking FKs). Pires on the left (why not play a left footed winger EVERYBODY said). I also remember people saying Ca$hley was a winger and Silvinho was far superior. Persisted with Song as a player (he didnt go to Barca cos that failed). Even the Gervinho persistence is showing signs of paying off.

Wenger is stubborn - its a weakness and a strength.

[g88ner]

Pires on the left (why not play a left footed winger EVERYBODY said).

Sorry if I'm nit picking, because much of your post made perfect sense to me, but I'm not sure about the bit quoted above.

Mainly because Pires arrived around the time we sold Overmars... and of course, Overmars was also a right footed, left winger for Arsenal - and a bloody successful one at that! so I think we'd already come to understand Wenger's thinking.

I do remember some thought he could play centrally with Vieira, but I think that would have seriously restricted Vieira's contribution.

As for playing Pires on the right... well, we already had Freddie.

[highburyJD]

Pires got a fair amount of criticism - maybe wanting left footers on the left was a particular issue for those who sat near me at Highbury
but he was far from convincing (think it wasn't till Lazio away I really believed)

[I Hate Hleb]

I also don't want to be picky but 'persisted with Petit in midfield''? How long was the guy actually at the club for and for how many of those seasons was he under-performing in the midfield role?

[highburyJD]

people on here have already decided Giroud is rubbish
at the same point in his Arsenal career Peiti had not pulled up any trees AND was playing out of position...

[I Hate Hleb]

people on here have already decided Giroud is rubbish
at the same point in his Arsenal career Peiti had not pulled up any trees AND was playing out of position...

Sorry but that doesn't answer the point!! You said 'persisted with' as if Petit had many seasons of underachievement yet only Wenger had the intelligence and faith to stick with him. Giroud's signing being questioned' by some isn't the same thing!!

[highburyJD]

I just meant persisted with playing him out of position.
Wenger was the only person to play him in centremid, he didnt start that well there.
(Didn't TA have a spack at him post that Highbury Blackburn defeat?? could be wrong)

Lots of negative examples of Wenger being stubborn were given - I'm just saying its a pro and a con.
Maybe Petit isn't the strongest example but there are loads of others.
I hope Jenkinson can be added to that list of proving doubters wrong.

[northbank123]

Stubbornness is not an attribute for a football manager, unless it's used as in a stubbornness to accept defeat a la Ferguson.

If a manager persists with a player in a certain position in the team and is vindicated in the long-run it's not stubbornness we should be praising, it's judgement. By definition stubbornness isn't a positive characteristic as it suppresses judgement, I for one don't want a manager making conceited decisions based on personal pride and arrogance.

[flash gunner]

Stubbornness is not an attribute for a football manager, unless it's used as in a stubbornness to accept defeat a la Ferguson.

If a manager persists with a player in a certain position in the team and is vindicated in the long-run it's not stubbornness we should be praising, it's judgement. By definition stubbornness isn't a positive characteristic as it suppresses judgement, I for one don't want a manager making conceited decisions based on personal pride and arrogance.

Good post

[DB10GOONER]

people on here have already decided Giroud is rubbish

Don't agree. SOME people on here might have - but that says more about their lack of understanding of football than anything else. Most of the rest of us will wait and see if he comes good or flops. Only an idiot would judge a player after a handful of games in a new league. My personal feeling is he might just chip in with 10+ or maybe even 15+ PL goals which would be an acceptable return on his first season in the PL.