Is 4th the new 1st?

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Have we as a club and supporters slipped into some kind of false pretence that coming 4th is job done?

Now as I'm sure you remember not so long ago we was The Invincibles!
There was an aura about Arsenal that not only was we going to win the league we was going to win it in style and so ultimately we won it undefeated. Now I feel we hope for a draw at Bolton, look for a point at Pompey and hope for the best at a lot of other places!

Is it just me or have all our hopes and expectations for the season dropped so far in such a short space of time?

I really dont mean to be pesimistic and I am still excited about what is to come but I do fear we are a club going in the wrong direction! Yes I know that most other clubs would snatch our hand off to be in our position but is that good enough? Im starting to feel that we are victims of our own success and that we raised the bar to a position we can never reach again under the current regime!

Yes Monsieur Wenger is the man to take us forward but are the rest of the set up on the same wavelength as him? Without the interface of Dein between Wenger and the board I fear that the ideas that made for those great Wenger sides will be lost. I am of the opinion that the set up behind the scenes are happy to regard 4th spot as a triumph if it means they can all sit happily on the board with their cigars on the go (yes even Lady Whatshername). The sodding about with Kronke was a clear example of how we are slow to move forward and keep up with the way football is progressing!

If the "Bank of England" club values of the past are holding us back then I have a feeling we could be Newcastle United in the future! Big ground, great fan base, sod all silverware and a fat arsed board using the club for their own personal gain!

Me as a supporter refuses to sign up to that!

[T.S]

Now as I'm sure you remember not so long ago we was The Invincibles!

And not too many years before that, we had gone 18 years without a league trophy...

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Oh I agree!

I simply dont understand how we have gone for the invincibles side to where we are now! Yes ok we have a transition period etc but you look at the list of players then and the list of players now!

One list has champions written all over it the other list says 4th!

[T.S]

Foreign investment, my friend. Abramovich coming over here has had a bigger knock-on effect than many people think.

[Galasso]

1. Players retiring/ageing/leaving within the same period

2. List of reasonable challengers in the Premiership being expanded from 2 to 4.

3. Expense of new stadium.


I am sure I have missed something from the above.

[gus ceasar is a legend]

I know Russian money has a hell of a lot to do with it! But is it a coincidence that the 3 clubs we jostle with (and finished above us) all have had forigen investment?

I simply think that Arsenal have forgotten or refuse to move with the times!

Are the name being pushed forward the kind that are going to push us forward again? Martins, Sagna(?)and Babel are names touted non stop! Galasso rightly points out age retiring etc but a few years ago we was signing Thierry's Bobby Pires's and even Jose Reyes's tp take over from the guys on their way out! This was all done when we had no cash as the stadium was to small etc etc!

The signings I see us looking at wont win us the league!

[Galasso]

Thierry Henry was not widely acclaimed in this country at the time we signed him, coming off the back of a disappointing spell with Juventus on the wing.

Bobby was equally unheralded and certainly not the midfield presence he turned out to be, especially after an undistinguished first season.

AW built on two full internationals, changed their approach and the result.....

Less said about Jose the better...Other than spending big money is no guarantee whatsover

Sagna I don't know, equally not so much of Martins (although he is in turn an international). Babel is a two footed player capable of playing wide and inside. he been at the top of club football for I think at least 3 years and is a full international.

[gus ceasar is a legend]

Two of them had just won the world cup! I would say they had pedigree way above the other names mentioned!

Sure Reyes turned out to be on the same emotional wavelength as a 11 year old girl but at the time of signing he was the darling of Spanish football just as Cesc is now!

Im not knocking things as I know there are many reasons but can you honestly tell me that any of the names put forward which are realistic targets excite you in the way some previous signings did!

Like everyone else I remember where I was when Stepanov signed just the same as a Kennedy moment!

[Gunnerz4life]

Have be done really badly in the seasons following The Invincible season?

We won the FA cup next year, the year after that even after losing Viera we reached The Champion's League Final which we really should have won. This has been the only bad season so to speak. This is a period of transition. The spine of the team Bergkamp Viera Pires and now Henry who were instrumental for the good times have now left. The young players need time to develop and with other teams spending big and being at a more advance stage of growth than us, it understandably has been difficult. As long as we can hold on to the young talent we have now and our manager and with the money coming from the Highbury project (hopefully it will be used for strengthening the team) soon, i would say this is a period of renaissance rather than a period of concern.

[gus ceasar is a legend]

When a legend leaves, the board dont seem to know whats happening and a Messiah of a manager doesnt look that happy with proceddings then I would say concern is a very apt word!

Yes we are in a period of cahnge I just dont want Arsenal to be left behind in the process!

[T.S]

I’m against long posts these days, so I’ll keep this as short as possible. Before Abramovich came along, we had taken a gamble on building the new stadium, and were now committed to it. Our finances were going to be fine providing we win things regularly – which seemed likely seeing as United were our only real rivals. But then along comes Roman. Without his money, Chelsea would never have finished second (behind us) and then would never have won the league the year after. Therefore, I’m led to believe that had he not come along, we would have won the league two years in a row, and had that been the case, then I think things would have been totally, totally different. Maybe Paddy wouldn’t have left. Maybe we would have attracted more “world classâ€

[Galasso]

Two of them had just won the world cup! I would say they had pedigree way above the other names mentioned!

Sure Reyes turned out to be on the same emotional wavelength as a 11 year old girl but at the time of signing he was the darling of Spanish football just as Cesc is now!

Im not knocking things as I know there are many reasons but can you honestly tell me that any of the names put forward which are realistic targets excite you in the way some previous signings did!

Like everyone else I remember where I was when Stepanov signed just the same as a Kennedy moment!

Juventus bit our hand off to get rid of Henry and I don't remember a long list of pursuers for his signature. Arsene Wenger through his knowledge knew what to do with this guy and CHANGED him.

Robert Pires was a squad player for France in 1998. He went on to play more of a part for France in 2000. I believe that his ratio of goals to games was below that of Frank Ribery at Marseille in a simlar period. Again, he was not the subject to the intense speculation that surrounds a Torres. Arsene knew what this player was capable of in terms of goals and our style of play, and CHANGED him.

With Reyes, he had made his name at another club, albeit a short spell in the limelight. Wenger saw something in the 50+ times he had him watched. But Cesc brought to Arsenal for virtually nothing, out of someones youth team, as an excellent talent. Cesc was virtually no risk and Jose was all risk, albeit someone Wenger thought would contribute and settle in better than he did. They are completely different cases.

I was never excited by the Pires signing for Arsenal and was sceptical about Henry. I supported them both as they made their way, with trust that AW knew what he was doing. It's not always easy as with all managers he drops howlers.

I think I am over being excited by a new signing because after 10 years of Arsene Wenger, I accept that more often than not he knows what is best for the team. I don't see a big name or big price tag and think WOW! I see a Pires, who initially shows only glimpses of what he can do, but shines like a light for the next 4 years.

Babel - I like him. Eto'o - I like him. Doesnt matter about the name or price. I get excited by seeing them on the pitch as part of a devastating team.

[gus ceasar is a legend]

I really dont care about the name or how much they cost! They can be Dick Van Dogshit signed from The Rose and Crown Hackney for all I care!

What I do care about is that we get in talent that is worthy of gracing our club and taking us forward! Yes a devastating team would be fantastic but that doesnt mean you cannot have brilliant individual talent too! Its a blend!

No clubs were not chomping at the bit to have Thierry when we had him from Juventus but neither was Denis Bergkamp hot property when we landed him! Did you ever doubt that Denis would do the business and dont tell me that signing wasnt a huge buzz!

Thats what we need right now! the player who not only has the talent but the aura to give the place a lift!

[green gooner]

4th is never good however you might paint it up

Is it the wind of change blowing through Arsenal or just some foul smelling fart

[donaldo]

Unfortunatley 4th is the new 1st. It would be a disaster if we didn"t qualify for the CL. There would be a mass rush to the exit door if that ever happened.Can you imagine the likes of Cesc and RVP staying if we were in the Mickey Mouse cup,i mean the UEFA. At the start of the season the main prority is a top 4 place.The title would be a bonus.