Nothing new here, but has Wenger ever been absolutely top drawer through his own making, or was it largely due to luck. I say luck in a number of situations. His record in the transfer market is no better than any other good manager. Bar a few admittedly good buys, we have seen some of the worst dross at Arsenal in living memory Please hear me out:
Situation inherited:
- Seaman (has never picked as good a 'keeper since. Even Lehmann was a loony.)
- The famous back four.
- Bergkamp (An absolute genius with un-rivalled loyalty. If you'd continued to offer any other player one-year only deals for the length of time we did, they would have been off like a shot. The way Wenger treated him was nothing short of a disgrace.)
- Parlour (under--rated and a vital driving force when under the cosh.)
- Since the last of these players left, what have we won? Wenger talks about our mental strength. We have no mental strength. Our players are athletes, not footballers. They don't know how to win things and never will do. They've got no-one to teach them how to win.
Success by chance:
- Ashley Cole (would have been sold to Palace if Sylvinho's passport issue hadn't blow up. He's not brought through a wholly home-grown player, to consistently play in the firsty team since.)
- Sol Campbelll (Free transfer. We would never have signed him otherwise.)
Arsenal - a graveyard for young English talent.
- Richard Wright (went backwards)
- Mattt Upson (is he any worse than some of the shit Wenger persisted with, such as Cygan and Stepanovs?)
- Francis Jeffers (was never going to be up to the job - poor judgement to buy him)
- Walcott - has gone backwards since we bought him. What has Wenger actually taught him...? Answers on a post-card)
- Stuart Taylor (was he any worse than Fabianski, Almunia, Warmuz, Shaabaan?)
- Jay Simpson (another one of the dozen or so groomed for The Championship. Wenger runs our youth team like you would a fish farm.)
The Success Stories
- Vieira (hands--up - ttop buy. A winner and a leader.)
- Anelka (sold before he developed. We didn't develop him. He was only at the Club 5 minutes. Wenger took a punt and it came off).
- Pires (great signing)
- Overmars (great signing)
- Henry (great signing)
- Fabregas (a raw talent, which was obvious to all. Barca couldn't sign him as he was too young to sign a pro contract in Spain. We turned his head by buying off his parents and promising him first-team football. Has Wenger actually taught him anything? He is a natural talent.)
- Toure (A natural athlete, but a headless chicken, and got progressively worse while he was with us. Campbell carried him in most games.)
The Great Transfer Failures (too many to mention)
- Caballero, Diawara, Warmuz, Shaaban, Jeffers, Inamoto, Cygan, Stepanovs, Tavlaridis, Reyes, Almunia, Fabianski, Silvestre, Bischoff, plus the likes of Diaby, Denilson, Walcott, Vela etc. (The Invisibles)
The Present Failures
- Has a Manager in the modern era played more players out of position? (Arshavin on the wing, Eboue as a winger, Song as a centre-back, Walcott on the wing, Bendnter on the wing - just buy a fucking winger and a fucking centre back)
- Keepers (no more to be said)
- 3 centre backs.. (no more to be said)
- The rise of the diddy men (is it any wonder we get the injuries we get? - don't remember Vieira, Petit, Adams, Keown, Pires and Henry out every week when they were in their prine. Yes they were injured in their later years, but that is to be expected after a long hard career.)
- The hyposcrisy of signing 30+ shit players on 2+ year contracts.
- The dross in our squad on big money to match their big egos (Denilson, Diaby, Bendtner, Walcott et al.)
- Unfulfilled potential (see above point for explanation for lack of ambition)
- Continued failure to build a 'squad' that will see out the season. We resemble a family on the bread--line living hand-to-mouth, whilst in the Bank we've got millions. Players playing out of position (Song, Eboue etc) because Wenger won't buy players to cover each position sufficiently.
Wenger now resembles a driver that's fallen asleep at the wheel. The car is continuing to move forward, but in the wrong direction, hitting debris as it continues. The problem is that he was never a competent driver in the first place. He made some good moves, but in a number of instances it was simply just luck.
Wenger doesn't know (and never did)
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frankbutcher
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Connolly55
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BournemouthRED
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Im usually against these posts being a rose tinter! 
but you raise some good points, i think the amazing things that wenger has done has been tarnished by the last 5 years. If he had left in 2004 no one would dare say a bad word against him. But if we win the league this year, massive but and if!!!, the last 5 years would be forgotten.
but you raise some good points, i think the amazing things that wenger has done has been tarnished by the last 5 years. If he had left in 2004 no one would dare say a bad word against him. But if we win the league this year, massive but and if!!!, the last 5 years would be forgotten.
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QuartzGooner
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The famous back six I suppose you can call "luck".
Parlour, Wright and Bergkamp too.
But Wenger had the judgement to keep these players when others considered them past their sell by date, and to actually sell them at the right time.
But he has made some good purchases and shrewd sales too, that indicate he has a lot more than luck.
A lot of the "failures" you list were amongst many squad players whom any top modern club would buy and sell in large numbers.
I think the decreased budget caused by the new stadium, increased resources of main competitors, and general "Wear and Tear" (such as the premature falling aprt of the 2007 - 2008 Mark Three Wenger Team), have taken the edge of Wenger.
I also think we have an injury problem at the club that needs in depth investigation, which the club are now doing.
These are the success stories, and there are a lot of them:
Vieira
Petit
Anelka (large profit)
Overmars
Kanu
Henry
Edu
Grimandi
Gilberto
Lauren
Sol Campbell
Ljungberg
Pires
Toure
Fabregas
Vermaelen
Flamini
Sagna
Clichy
Lehman
Eduardo (pre-injury, outside of Wenger's control)
Parlour, Wright and Bergkamp too.
But Wenger had the judgement to keep these players when others considered them past their sell by date, and to actually sell them at the right time.
But he has made some good purchases and shrewd sales too, that indicate he has a lot more than luck.
A lot of the "failures" you list were amongst many squad players whom any top modern club would buy and sell in large numbers.
I think the decreased budget caused by the new stadium, increased resources of main competitors, and general "Wear and Tear" (such as the premature falling aprt of the 2007 - 2008 Mark Three Wenger Team), have taken the edge of Wenger.
I also think we have an injury problem at the club that needs in depth investigation, which the club are now doing.
These are the success stories, and there are a lot of them:
Vieira
Petit
Anelka (large profit)
Overmars
Kanu
Henry
Edu
Grimandi
Gilberto
Lauren
Sol Campbell
Ljungberg
Pires
Toure
Fabregas
Vermaelen
Flamini
Sagna
Clichy
Lehman
Eduardo (pre-injury, outside of Wenger's control)
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frankbutcher
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Fair points made and noted. Please see above for small problem with some of themQuartzGooner wrote:The famous back six I suppose you can call "luck".
Parlour, Wright and Bergkamp too.
But Wenger had the judgement to keep these players when others considered them past their sell by date, and to actually sell them at the right time.
But he has made some good purchases and shrewd sales too, that indicate he has a lot more than luck.
A lot of the "failures" you list were amongst many squad players whom any top modern club would buy and sell in large numbers.
I think the decreased budget caused by the new stadium, increased resources of main competitors, and general "Wear and Tear" (such as the premature falling aprt of the 2007 - 2008 Mark Three Wenger Team), have taken the edge of Wenger. - lack of money doesn't wash with me any more. Highbury has been sold. We re-couped £40m for Ade and Toure last summer, and spent £10m on TV. We've made c. £7m this summer on Eddie and Jay Simpson, plus Traore is on his way for at least £2m. Add to that, are the c. £10m per season saving on wages by letting Gallas, Silvestre, Senderos, Campbell, Eddie leave. Why are we collecting cash, when we don't need it to service debt? We urgently need new players. The sole reason to move to the Emirates was to allow us to complete. Now we have the cash we are choosing not to compete. Why??????I also think we have an injury problem at the club that needs in depth investigation, which the club are now doing. - no in-depth research required. The players are too small and too fragile to compete in the Premier League. Fergie actually changed his game plan to match us when we had Petit, Vieira, Adams etc. Since the Invincibles, Wenger has systematically removed our tall, welll-built players and replaced them with pygmies....Why?????????????
These are the success stories, and there are a lot of them:
Vieira
Petit
Anelka (large profit)
Overmars
Kanu
Henry
Edu - bit-part player and lost on a free due to Wenger's stubborness
Grimandi - are you sure?
Gilberto
Lauren
Sol Campbell - free and therefore no risk
Ljungberg
Pires
Toure - as above
Fabregas - as detailed above already
Vermaelen
Flamini - never rated by Wenger until thrown in at Left back. Success through fortune and then lost on a free due to Wenger's stubborness (he's not been replaced properly to date)
Sagna - has got progressively worse since joining us and defensively suspect
Clichy - defensively inept
Lehman
Eduardo (pre-injury, outside of Wenger's control)
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Bring Back Pires
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I'm a current AW detractor, but this is pure shit in my opinion.
He USED to be able to buy unknown talents and turn them into world class superstars. For instance: Henry, Pires, Vieira, Ljungberg. His attitude to the game, and specifically his dietary advice to the squad, re-invigorated the back four (and Ray Parlour) to flourish beyond their years. Don't forget that the legendary back four played in the side that finished 12th in the 1994/95 season.
As much as I detest Wenger now, I'll never let it be said how much he's done for the club in the past. We won three league titles, four FA Cups and appeared in numerous finals. Does that mean I want him managing us in 2010 when he's clearly past it? No. But it doesn't mean that I'm going to ignore his past glories.
Between 2002-2005, we were the best team in the world. No doubts about it. Wenger brought players through from nowhere, and formulated a dominating side. No dissection of individual players will ever diminish his achievements.
He USED to be able to buy unknown talents and turn them into world class superstars. For instance: Henry, Pires, Vieira, Ljungberg. His attitude to the game, and specifically his dietary advice to the squad, re-invigorated the back four (and Ray Parlour) to flourish beyond their years. Don't forget that the legendary back four played in the side that finished 12th in the 1994/95 season.
As much as I detest Wenger now, I'll never let it be said how much he's done for the club in the past. We won three league titles, four FA Cups and appeared in numerous finals. Does that mean I want him managing us in 2010 when he's clearly past it? No. But it doesn't mean that I'm going to ignore his past glories.
Between 2002-2005, we were the best team in the world. No doubts about it. Wenger brought players through from nowhere, and formulated a dominating side. No dissection of individual players will ever diminish his achievements.
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QuartzGooner
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I stand by all my player selections, and would actually add Song to the list.
Size of players can affect their physical effectiveness, but should not definitely mean they get as many ligament/muscle tear injuries as ours do.
Besides, currently injured players such as Song, Djourou and Bendtner are not small.
As for cash, I have detailed my thoughts on other posts.
Basically:
Board/Wenger are keeping powder dry until FIFA rules make it a more level playing field. They know as it stands we cannot compete with Man City and Chelsea.
They are also being very prudent, playing a long term game.
Wenger is stubborn and wants to stick to his project of mainly developing homegrown and youth players.
Size of players can affect their physical effectiveness, but should not definitely mean they get as many ligament/muscle tear injuries as ours do.
Besides, currently injured players such as Song, Djourou and Bendtner are not small.
As for cash, I have detailed my thoughts on other posts.
Basically:
Board/Wenger are keeping powder dry until FIFA rules make it a more level playing field. They know as it stands we cannot compete with Man City and Chelsea.
They are also being very prudent, playing a long term game.
Wenger is stubborn and wants to stick to his project of mainly developing homegrown and youth players.
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frankbutcher
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Again, fair points, but was all of what Wenger did, of his own making? I'm saying he had some significant chunks of good fortune along the way. Even when we were in our prime, and "the best team in the World from 2002-2005", why didn't we win the League each year? Why didn't we win the Champions League in this period? Why did we choke in the Uefa Cup Final. Why did we throw away the FA Cup against ten men in 1999. Why did we throw away the League in 1999?Bring Back Pires wrote:I'm a current AW detractor, but this is pure shit in my opinion.
He USED to be able to buy unknown talents and turn them into world class superstars. For instance: Henry, Pires, Vieira, Ljungberg. His attitude to the game, and specifically his dietary advice to the squad, re-invigorated the back four (and Ray Parlour) to flourish beyond their years. Don't forget that the legendary back four played in the side that finished 12th in the 1994/95 season.
As much as I detest Wenger now, I'll never let it be said how much he's done for the club in the past. We won three league titles, four FA Cups and appeared in numerous finals. Does that mean I want him managing us in 2010 when he's clearly past it? No. But it doesn't mean that I'm going to ignore his past glories.
Between 2002-2005, we were the best team in the world. No doubts about it. Wenger brought players through from nowhere, and formulated a dominating side. No dissection of individual players will ever diminish his achievements.
Wenger has always been tactically inept. He only knows one way to play. If things aren't going his way in a game, does he make an immediate change? No he doesn't. He sits on his arse with his head in his hands and then goes to have a moan at the 4th official. Wenger discovered some great players, and I mean great. But Wenger never made the most of them. He never won the trophies he should have done. He under-achieved. Now he doesn't have the players. We are nearly men. Wenger is now a man of vitriol. He's a man of rhetorical excuses. He's a man who is lost. He doesn't know how to do things any different to how he's always done them. He doesn't see defensive frailties, He doesn't see a poor goalkeeper. These were never issues in his earlier days. Things looked after themselves and questions weren't asked of him because we always scored more than the opposition.
Wenger is a busted flush. The sooner his torment is ended the better. But it won't be, because the longer he keeps us in the top 4, the longer the money rolls in and the longer the Board's investment continues to grow....until they sell up and the new owner lumbers the Club with massive debt a la Malcolm Glazer. Wenger, although not intentionally, is implicit in the plan that will ruin this Club in the medium term....
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marcengels
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I agree 100% with the original post, Wenger takes his position for granted and expects us all to bow down to him. Would Ferguscum or Ancelotti, and many other managers like Hodgson, Mourinho, Moyes, Hughes, O'Neill when at Villa, Redtwat, even Ballerdyce sit there staring at gaping holes and not do anything about it? No, they'd sort it, because they all have ambition, unlike our current boss.
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merson_is_god
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