Wrong its wrong, its totally wrong

[SammyDroppedHisShorts]

As an ex- Marine and proud of the Corp i served in, i find it abhorable that this has come to light...

Anger is something i feel rarely, but if an insurgant wants to fuck with my lads then shoot the bastard

RULES OF ENGAGEMENT!!! Elite soldiers have a right to nail any bastard who is in a war zone and is prepared to shoot on sight...

I am too angry to even think straight, but those lads stick their butts on the line everyday, and those lads are sent home in body bags every day..

Makes my blood boil

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19918398

[RioGooner]

You don't know the detalis sammy, maybe they executed the suspects after arresting them or something like that. Quite common stuff in tense urban regions . ie. Brazil

[northbank123]

Completely understand your frustration Sammy but as RG says they've rightly been very discreet with the facts.

As the article accepts the military hardly has a track record of charging Marines (or any soldiers) with murder so there's obviously more than meets the eye.

[g88ner]

There's not really much information there, so it's impossible for me to comment.

However, you'd suspect something unusual has gone on for them to be charged, wouldn't you? because normally, I'd assume the law is on their side.

I guess we just have to wait for more information to surface, mate.

[QuartzGooner]

Article is very vague, have to wait until if/when further details are revealed.

Do remember seeing a news clip about Afghanistan rules of engagement which meant troops were not allowed to open fire unless insurgents opened fire first, even if our troops could see insurgents carrying weapons.

But in that case I would have thought CIA drones could do the job?

[storrmin571]

Im with Sammy the Blade on this one. If its either them or me, I am going to make sure I am coming home.

[OneBardGooner]

Article is very vague, have to wait until if/when further details are revealed.

Do remember seeing a news clip about Afghanistan rules of engagement which meant troops were not allowed to open fire unless insurgents opened fire first, even if our troops could see insurgents carrying weapons.

^^^This^^^

I was watching one of the three programmes the BBC (iPlayer) recently showed of UK troops in Helman province - and I could hardly believe it when they said this....there were some squadies all kitted up/armed etc...and they were watching/filming these scum murdering afghanistan *word censored* sneak up on them, but they had to wait to actually be fucking shot at before they could do anything.....it ended up with one soldier being shot - he died some weeks later from his wounds...it fucking stinks...I am all for Peace and an end to War/World conflicts, But, if these insurgents - heroin growing bully boys who refuse women any education - rape young boys at will and hold their own people in fear with fundamentalism and sharia law - are going to become a 'player' (as the SAS say) then fuck em kill the *word censored* on sight the fuckers.

If two peoples are going into conflict - then surely it is about protection and survival at all costs...


And as for these Marines well this sounds like another case of Political Correctness gone totally haywire.....in order to win/beat an opponent sometimes one has to adopt their own revolting methods - I remember reading about US 'hit squads' in the Vietnam and Cambodia conflicts- and it was often the only way they could eliminate Viet cong agents etc

I think if some of these 'law abiding do goodie good MP's etc had to put their lives on the line and have some *word censored* shoot at them before they could react, the rules of engagement would soon change.

[goonersid]

I can't agree with you Sammy, the thing is by adopting this stance you must accept 100% that you are in a war situation. Therefore when an "insurgent" takes out some of "your lads", if captured he is a prisoner of war, and should only be held until that conflict is concluded.
Otherwise you are invoking a "license to kill" for "your lads" only. And unfortunately we have seen too many times in the past where that leads.

[DB10GOONER]

The problem with Afghanistan is that if you just open up on any fucker with a gun, then you are going to kill roughly 90% of the adult male population, as their culture is in this aspect similar to the Old West in the States; everyone is packing. It is part of being a man. This is one of many reasons why there are RoE out there.

[SammyDroppedHisShorts]

My mentality is the one I was trained with and that held me in good stead during seven years of graft.

The insurgent for me is the enemy therefore my training will certainly push me to eradicate this person who if back in the system will have no issue killing me.

Rules of engagement are such a sordid issue that at times you have to say up yours. I for one won't ask questions when i see any enemy troop ready to fire.

And seven men kill one man, there is some cynics who would say that these Marines know who did it but as it is for sure they will be claiming the issue as an "I am Spartacus".

As an ex MarIne I will say this.....start on me...I finish you...end of story! And war is war! PER MARE PER TERRAM!

[northbank123]

Realistically they wouldn't actually need to prove which one pulled the trigger.

At the end of the day it's a really horrible job having to put your body on the line every day in those sorts of conditions, and one that I'll freely admit I would never have the stomach for.

That said, there have to be rules. Just as police can't go around arresting somebody because they might commit a crime given the chance, troops can't just kill people because they're insurgents. Although it's might not seem fair military personnel can't simply go around killing anybody who they deem to be the enemy. Although the last thing I want to advocate is risking soldiers' lives on some pathetic procedural ground, the whole basis of a war with these people is that we are better than them and don't act in the same way. Every killing must still be lawful. Until more details become clear about whether the dead guy pulled a weapon or whatever then you can't comment with certainty.

[SammyDroppedHisShorts]

NB123

The difference being is this...

Unless you have been in the forces or in combat you can not really understand what goes through the mind of a soldier

That's where we differ....
If you have been a serviceman then I am judging you wrong

[northbank123]

No I haven't, as I've said I wouldn't have the bottle for it. I don't have a clue what it must be like on the front line but that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be rules.

At the end of the day this isn't WW2, you can't just shoot people who you perceive to be the enemy on sight. As unpopular as it may be there needs to be safeguards to prevent serious misuse of force. As underappreciated as they might be soldiers hold great responsibility with a licence to kill.

At the end of the day the RMP/MoD hardly has a penchant for charging its own soldiers with murder in an active combat zone, and if there was a clear case of reasonable belief of self-defence in the heat of the moment then these soldiers wouldn't be charged with murder. Whatever your feelings I think you need to reserve your judgement on this particular case until the facts are actually known, there's obviously more to it.

[olgitgooner]

I feel as angry as Sammy.

Politicians decide on rules of engagement. They haven't got a fucking clue about the real world in a war zone. Soldiers have to take decisions in a split second. Politicians take weeks, months or years to arrive at a decision. Which is fine when nobody is shooting at you in the meantime.

Armed forces cannot be expected to carry out their duties with hands tied.

This is nothing new. Northern Ireland during the "troubles" was exactly the same. The IRA gained a propaganda victory by claiming that the UK armed forces had a "shoot to kill" policy. Whilst totally ignoring PIRA sniper activity. Corporal Clegg was hung out to dry because of this.

Recently in Afghanistan a patrol was fired upon. They arrested a guy who stunk of cordite. He was released because he wasn't actually observed firing a weapon. Pfffff!

[SammyDroppedHisShorts]

So there are seven insurgents and one Marine.........

The outcome?

Beheading on TV?
Torture for days?
Murder murder murder


Fuck em we stand against an evil

Take them out......IT'S YOUR JOB to do so.

These are Elite soldiers let em do what they gotta do......bloody murder...shove whatever facts there are because that insurgent was up to no good...and I bet that's a fact