Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[Nos89]

the problem is that these days in the age of social media there is a tendency to over hype things, without using any perspective on a situation.

take the 5 match winning streak in December - ok great we won 5 in a row, but I never got too excited because of those earlier 2 defeats at United and Everton at the beginning of December. Those 2 defeats for me really hit home more than most in the past few years because it demonstrated that we really haven't improved that much under Arteta, if at all.

the 5 wins - Southampton at home - they are 14th in a poor Premier League
West Ham at home - ok good win but they were going through a really bad patch at that time
Leeds away - they are 16th in a poor Premier League
Sunderland in the league cup - league 1 fodder. the only level where Nketiajh will score goals at
Norwich away - they are fucking shit

yes we played ok against City, but they played badly and STILL managed to win away from home.

it is constantly 1 step forward with Arteta and then 1 step back.
but zero shots on goal in the FA Cup against a Championship club...wow that is bad, really bad

That's true of Arsenal since 2007, just when you think we're making progress we take a major step backwards. 2007, and 2011 League Cup finals, season. 2007/08, and more recently 2015/16, then Emery's 2018/19 and now this season. Arteta may or may not be the person to lead us back into the top 4, our rightful place but he's giving it a mighty good go in what is the most important season in the club's recent history. The next 3 games will define our next 5 -10 seasons, they are that important.

[Nos89]

Funny that Arteta is "useless" and "naive" again after a very, very poor result in the "tinpot tournament" known as the FA Cup. So many "kneejerkers" around it's laughable. The team pulled out a stinker of a performance, which is probably a knock-on effect after our defeat last week, when we outplayed the best team in the league. Hopefully, they've got it out their system and can go on another mini-winning run.

WUM alert

"Tinpot" - you'll have to try a bit harder than that lad !

It's all the mind boy, all in the mind

[gooner265]

the problem is that these days in the age of social media there is a tendency to over hype things, without using any perspective on a situation.

take the 5 match winning streak in December - ok great we won 5 in a row, but I never got too excited because of those earlier 2 defeats at United and Everton at the beginning of December. Those 2 defeats for me really hit home more than most in the past few years because it demonstrated that we really haven't improved that much under Arteta, if at all.

the 5 wins - Southampton at home - they are 14th in a poor Premier League
West Ham at home - ok good win but they were going through a really bad patch at that time
Leeds away - they are 16th in a poor Premier League
Sunderland in the league cup - league 1 fodder. the only level where Nketiajh will score goals at
Norwich away - they are fucking shit

yes we played ok against City, but they played badly and STILL managed to win away from home.

it is constantly 1 step forward with Arteta and then 1 step back.
but zero shots on goal in the FA Cup against a Championship club...wow that is bad, really bad

That's true of Arsenal since 2007, just when you think we're making progress we take a major step backwards. 2007, and 2011 League Cup finals, season. 2007/08, and more recently 2015/16, then Emery's 2018/19 and now this season. Arteta may or may not be the person to lead us back into the top 4, our rightful place but he's giving it a mighty good go in what is the most important season in the club's recent history. The next 3 games will define our next 5 -10 seasons, they are that important.

Top 4 is not our rightful place you have to earn it , no team has the right to a trophy or position.

[DB10GOONER]

the problem is that these days in the age of social media there is a tendency to over hype things, without using any perspective on a situation.

take the 5 match winning streak in December - ok great we won 5 in a row, but I never got too excited because of those earlier 2 defeats at United and Everton at the beginning of December. Those 2 defeats for me really hit home more than most in the past few years because it demonstrated that we really haven't improved that much under Arteta, if at all.

the 5 wins - Southampton at home - they are 14th in a poor Premier League
West Ham at home - ok good win but they were going through a really bad patch at that time
Leeds away - they are 16th in a poor Premier League
Sunderland in the league cup - league 1 fodder. the only level where Nketiajh will score goals at
Norwich away - they are fucking shit

yes we played ok against City, but they played badly and STILL managed to win away from home.

it is constantly 1 step forward with Arteta and then 1 step back.
but zero shots on goal in the FA Cup against a Championship club...wow that is bad, really bad

That's true of Arsenal since 2007, just when you think we're making progress we take a major step backwards. 2007, and 2011 League Cup finals, season. 2007/08, and more recently 2015/16, then Emery's 2018/19 and now this season. Arteta may or may not be the person to lead us back into the top 4, our rightful place but he's giving it a mighty good go in what is the most important season in the club's recent history. The next 3 games will define our next 5 -10 seasons, they are that important.

Top 4 is not our rightful place you have to earn it , no team has the right to a trophy or position.

While I absolutely agree with you there, I would add though that fans that pay the highest ticket prices in the world do have the right to expect their club to do everything possible to achieve the minimum of top 4. If the club has lowered its ambitions then it should lower the ticket prices and the players' salaries accordingly.

[Nos89]

the problem is that these days in the age of social media there is a tendency to over hype things, without using any perspective on a situation.

take the 5 match winning streak in December - ok great we won 5 in a row, but I never got too excited because of those earlier 2 defeats at United and Everton at the beginning of December. Those 2 defeats for me really hit home more than most in the past few years because it demonstrated that we really haven't improved that much under Arteta, if at all.

the 5 wins - Southampton at home - they are 14th in a poor Premier League
West Ham at home - ok good win but they were going through a really bad patch at that time
Leeds away - they are 16th in a poor Premier League
Sunderland in the league cup - league 1 fodder. the only level where Nketiajh will score goals at
Norwich away - they are fucking shit

yes we played ok against City, but they played badly and STILL managed to win away from home.

it is constantly 1 step forward with Arteta and then 1 step back.
but zero shots on goal in the FA Cup against a Championship club...wow that is bad, really bad

That's true of Arsenal since 2007, just when you think we're making progress we take a major step backwards. 2007, and 2011 League Cup finals, season. 2007/08, and more recently 2015/16, then Emery's 2018/19 and now this season. Arteta may or may not be the person to lead us back into the top 4, our rightful place but he's giving it a mighty good go in what is the most important season in the club's recent history. The next 3 games will define our next 5 -10 seasons, they are that important.

Top 4 is not our rightful place you have to earn it , no team has the right to a trophy or position.

I'm saying we are a top 4 club and are underperforming. V

[Nos89]

the problem is that these days in the age of social media there is a tendency to over hype things, without using any perspective on a situation.

take the 5 match winning streak in December - ok great we won 5 in a row, but I never got too excited because of those earlier 2 defeats at United and Everton at the beginning of December. Those 2 defeats for me really hit home more than most in the past few years because it demonstrated that we really haven't improved that much under Arteta, if at all.

the 5 wins - Southampton at home - they are 14th in a poor Premier League
West Ham at home - ok good win but they were going through a really bad patch at that time
Leeds away - they are 16th in a poor Premier League
Sunderland in the league cup - league 1 fodder. the only level where Nketiajh will score goals at
Norwich away - they are fucking shit

yes we played ok against City, but they played badly and STILL managed to win away from home.

it is constantly 1 step forward with Arteta and then 1 step back.
but zero shots on goal in the FA Cup against a Championship club...wow that is bad, really bad

That's true of Arsenal since 2007, just when you think we're making progress we take a major step backwards. 2007, and 2011 League Cup finals, season. 2007/08, and more recently 2015/16, then Emery's 2018/19 and now this season. Arteta may or may not be the person to lead us back into the top 4, our rightful place but he's giving it a mighty good go in what is the most important season in the club's recent history. The next 3 games will define our next 5 -10 seasons, they are that important.

Top 4 is not our rightful place you have to earn it , no team has the right to a trophy or position.

I'm saying we are a top 4 club and are underperforming.

[GoonerMuzz]

That's wrong, we are not a top 4 club, we have the potential to be and possibly should be but under this ownership we are not definitively a top 4 club.

There is nothing more frustrating than blinkered Arsenal fans who ignore reality year in year out, always hankering after past glories.

There are richer club's out there who arguably have as much right to top 4 as we do but are in just as bad a state as Arsenal, there are club's with nowhere near the resources of Arsenal who have done better than us at times in recent seasons.

I'd be genuinely interested in what makes people think we are automatically a top 4 club in this day and age?

[SteveO 35]

That's wrong, we are not a top 4 club, we have the potential to be and possibly should be but under this ownership we are not definitively a top 4 club.

There is nothing more frustrating than blinkered Arsenal fans who ignore reality year in year out, always hankering after past glories.

There are richer club's out there who arguably have as much right to top 4 as we do but are in just as bad a state as Arsenal, there are club's with nowhere near the resources of Arsenal who have done better than us at times in recent seasons.

I'd be genuinely interested in what makes people think we are automatically a top 4 club in this day and age?

Agree with you to a degree, but what I would say is that we've gone from being an established top 4 regular to an also ran club under the Kroenke's.

We had a huge financial advantage over Leicester, Spurs and also for much of that period over Liverpool.....let alone the fucking likes of West Ham.

We should be in the top 4 - we moved to the stadium donkeys years ago, interest rates have never been so low and the likes of Spurs are now crippled with debt. Should we be able to compete with Man City and Chelsea - absolutely not. Should we be regularly within breathing distance of the top 4 given the size of our club, wage structure, commercial and gate receipts - yes we should.

The club fired a manager that finished 1 point away from the top 4 and reached a major European final, so clearly their views are that 5th isn't acceptable. They've also given Legohead more money than any previous manager, and he has no excuses around injuries or fixture congestion. This is his squad and if he can't make top 4 then he should be fired too

[gooner265]

Should be in top 4 and belong in the top 4 are two totally different things.
My point was fans from all clubs think they a 'right' to be where they think but they don't. It's like the relegated 'big, sides who return to 'where they belong' not just fans but media as well . Sorry that's bullshit, you are where you are because you deserve to be .
Agree with the point we should be doing better but that all stems back to letting Wenger stay far to long and drag us further and further down year after year leaving a whole heap of shit to deal with which we haven't climbed out of yet

[SteveO 35]

Should be in top 4 and belong in the top 4 are two totally different things.
My point was fans from all clubs think they a 'right' to be where they think but they don't. It's like the relegated 'big, sides who return to 'where they belong' not just fans but media as well . Sorry that's bullshit, you are where you are because you deserve to be .
Agree with the point we should be doing better but that all stems back to letting Wenger stay far to long and drag us further and further down year after year leaving a whole heap of shit to deal with which we haven't climbed out of yet

Totally agree. When I meet non Arsenal people or Wenger luvvies they get genuinely appalled when I say that man did as much damage in his last 10 years as he did good in his first 12. The losing culture at the club, the 4th is everything mentality, the acceptance of getting absolutely rinsed by the top teams on a consistent basis.....all of that belongs to him and it has taken 2 managers since to even begin to start grappling with it.

Look at the players that left under Emery and ask yourself how many of them were missed in any shape or form - Perez, Joel Campbell, Asano, Bielik, Ospina, Welbeck, Jenkinson, Iwobi, Cech, Ramsey, Koscielny, Monreal, Wilshere, Cazorla, Mertesacker. One way or another we were left with players who were mostly absolutely fucking awful, too old/retiring, or too permanently injured. We loved Santi the player and man, but fuck me he didn't play in over 2 years. Just look at that list and wonder how much in wages was being poured out of this club's coffers when Dick walked in the door.

Years later Arteta is dealing with the next stage of it - Mkhitaryan, Ozil, Mustafi.

Honestly the past few years of that prick saw all of our natural advantage over the likes of Sperz, Leicester and Liverpool overturned. Between him and the wig wearing c.unt they set us back over a decade

[DB10GOONER]

Should be in top 4 and belong in the top 4 are two totally different things.
My point was fans from all clubs think they a 'right' to be where they think but they don't. It's like the relegated 'big, sides who return to 'where they belong' not just fans but media as well . Sorry that's bullshit, you are where you are because you deserve to be .
Agree with the point we should be doing better but that all stems back to letting Wenger stay far to long and drag us further and further down year after year leaving a whole heap of shit to deal with which we haven't climbed out of yet

Totally agree. When I meet non Arsenal people or Wenger luvvies they get genuinely appalled when I say that man did as much damage in his last 10 years as he did good in his first 12. The losing culture at the club, the 4th is everything mentality, the acceptance of getting absolutely rinsed by the top teams on a consistent basis.....all of that belongs to him and it has taken 2 managers since to even begin to start grappling with it.

Look at the players that left under Emery and ask yourself how many of them were missed in any shape or form - Perez, Joel Campbell, Asano, Bielik, Ospina, Welbeck, Jenkinson, Iwobi, Cech, Ramsey, Koscielny, Monreal, Wilshere, Cazorla, Mertesacker. One way or another we were left with players who were mostly absolutely fucking awful, too old/retiring, or too permanently injured. We loved Santi the player and man, but fuck me he didn't play in over 2 years. Just look at that list and wonder how much in wages was being poured out of this club's coffers when Dick walked in the door.

Years later Arteta is dealing with the next stage of it - Mkhitaryan, Ozil, Mustafi.

Honestly the past few years of that prick saw all of our natural advantage over the likes of Sperz, Leicester and Liverpool overturned. Between him and the wig wearing c.unt they set us back over a decade

Bang on the nail mate.

[gooner265]

Should be in top 4 and belong in the top 4 are two totally different things.
My point was fans from all clubs think they a 'right' to be where they think but they don't. It's like the relegated 'big, sides who return to 'where they belong' not just fans but media as well . Sorry that's bullshit, you are where you are because you deserve to be .
Agree with the point we should be doing better but that all stems back to letting Wenger stay far to long and drag us further and further down year after year leaving a whole heap of shit to deal with which we haven't climbed out of yet

Totally agree. When I meet non Arsenal people or Wenger luvvies they get genuinely appalled when I say that man did as much damage in his last 10 years as he did good in his first 12. The losing culture at the club, the 4th is everything mentality, the acceptance of getting absolutely rinsed by the top teams on a consistent basis.....all of that belongs to him and it has taken 2 managers since to even begin to start grappling with it.

Look at the players that left under Emery and ask yourself how many of them were missed in any shape or form - Perez, Joel Campbell, Asano, Bielik, Ospina, Welbeck, Jenkinson, Iwobi, Cech, Ramsey, Koscielny, Monreal, Wilshere, Cazorla, Mertesacker. One way or another we were left with players who were mostly absolutely fucking awful, too old/retiring, or too permanently injured. We loved Santi the player and man, but fuck me he didn't play in over 2 years. Just look at that list and wonder how much in wages was being poured out of this club's coffers when Dick walked in the door.

Years later Arteta is dealing with the next stage of it - Mkhitaryan, Ozil, Mustafi.

Honestly the past few years of that prick saw all of our natural advantage over the likes of Sperz, Leicester and Liverpool overturned. Between him and the wig wearing c.unt they set us back over a decade

Absolutely, plus he never had money to spend is bollocks as well, the amount he wasted on xhaka, mustafi etc was criminal.Once he was caught up with the gems in Europe he had nowhere to go , Santi was probably his last decent signing.
But you can't tell the Wenger lovers and there a big part of where we are now too and they just accepted mediocrity.

[Retro Gunner]

Should be in top 4 and belong in the top 4 are two totally different things.
My point was fans from all clubs think they a 'right' to be where they think but they don't. It's like the relegated 'big, sides who return to 'where they belong' not just fans but media as well . Sorry that's bullshit, you are where you are because you deserve to be .
Agree with the point we should be doing better but that all stems back to letting Wenger stay far to long and drag us further and further down year after year leaving a whole heap of shit to deal with which we haven't climbed out of yet

Totally agree. When I meet non Arsenal people or Wenger luvvies they get genuinely appalled when I say that man did as much damage in his last 10 years as he did good in his first 12. The losing culture at the club, the 4th is everything mentality, the acceptance of getting absolutely rinsed by the top teams on a consistent basis.....all of that belongs to him and it has taken 2 managers since to even begin to start grappling with it.

Look at the players that left under Emery and ask yourself how many of them were missed in any shape or form - Perez, Joel Campbell, Asano, Bielik, Ospina, Welbeck, Jenkinson, Iwobi, Cech, Ramsey, Koscielny, Monreal, Wilshere, Cazorla, Mertesacker. One way or another we were left with players who were mostly absolutely fucking awful, too old/retiring, or too permanently injured. We loved Santi the player and man, but fuck me he didn't play in over 2 years. Just look at that list and wonder how much in wages was being poured out of this club's coffers when Dick walked in the door.

Years later Arteta is dealing with the next stage of it - Mkhitaryan, Ozil, Mustafi.

Honestly the past few years of that prick saw all of our natural advantage over the likes of Sperz, Leicester and Liverpool overturned. Between him and the wig wearing c.unt they set us back over a decade

Absolutely spot on analysis.

If I'm going to be pedantic, I'd say that the collapse started more than 10 years before he left. The warnings signs were writ large in 2005 and by 2007 it was abundantly clear to me. I remember phoning into Talksport that season to have a rant and in fairness to Stan Collymore, he could see it, whereas most pundits and commentators (and most of our fans) thought you were nuts for suggesting it.

Sadly, a huge number of our lobotomised supporters still thought the French fucker walked on water as late as 2018 !! The damage he was allowed to wreak for over a decade was absolutely criminal, but he became the symptom and the enabling Kroenke the disease.

[Nos89]

Arteta has left himself in a very tricky predicament by loaning out too many squad players. We knew AFCON was happening. We could easily anticipate COVID was going to be a risk at this time of year, as well as muscular injuries due to match schedules. We've loaned out too many players. It's naive management.

[StuartL]

Arteta has left himself in a very tricky predicament by loaning out too many squad players. We knew AFCON was happening. We could easily anticipate COVID was going to be a risk at this time of year, as well as muscular injuries due to match schedules. We've loaned out too many players. It's naive management.

You would think that it would only happen if they knew for certain that 1 or 2 more players were nailed on signings.

Melo seems close to being done and Vlahovic would be awesome.