Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[IW8Goalmachine]

You've now basically posted this exact post about thirty times on here. That is WUM behaviour. Mix it up or I will ban you for WUMing. The entire forum is sick of your carry on. Get a grip. And I'm sick of reading complaints about you.

Its the Arteta thread and most of the posters want him out. Why would I not post in response to my view which is wanting to keep him?

I have not said that I want him out (that’s a crazy suggestion anyway because he is not going anywhere).
I have just been pointing out his limitations, and what he has so far achieved. Given he has spent £700 million it is actually not that much.

I will certainly be getting behind him and the team this evening though. maybe he can prove me wrong in my thinking that he finds cup competitions difficult.

We are competing with Man City after spending 700m. Which is more to say than Man United and Chelsea. And even though we have been spending, do you think Man City have been sitting in idle. Grealish 100m, Josko 80m, Haaland 60m, Nunes 50m, Dias 70m, Doku 60m, Ake 40m, Phillips 40m and there are many more.

If Arteta was outspending our rivals, there is a case to be made. But at most we are matching City and their level of investment, despite the fact Arteta was starting from a position of weakness relative to Pep - look at our squad relative to Man City the day Arteta took charge of Arsenal

FFS how much money would anyone need to go up against Pep and City's Abu Dhabi pockets. You talk like there are other managers that are infallible. I reckon Simeone would be a popular choice in this forum to replace Arteta. Well Atletico lost last night to Dortmund and are currently in a top 4 race in La Liga, only just recently went into 4th over Athletic Bilbao.

This 'other manager' that offers you an almost perfect chance to win the league against this City juggernaut, doesn't exist. This is the art were eople say we should 'risk' a new manager. We may slide down to 6th, but headed in another direction we could win the league. And I just think this approach is foolish to say the least. I dont want to take risks and gamble. There are dividends to be paid in sticking with Arteta, and if the club ever did sack him for an 'experienced manager who has wun somthin' then we have well and truly played ourselves.

Seriously mate, how many more fucking times do you and your fellow Arteta fan boys need telling? I'm not aware of anyone on here who expects us to finish ahead of City, so why do you constantly feel the need to remind us of how powerful they are, both financially and squad wise....we all know it!

What we want is Arteta doing all he can to compete and get as close to them as possible and anything else is a bonus. What we don't want is him changing a winning team and system that was going so well and putting 4s, 5s and 6s past opposing sides, but that is exactly what he's done and all to accomodate his favourite duds, the hapless Zinchenko and the non scoring Jesus. That's entirely on Arteta and if it all goes tits up then you can fully expect us to criticise him for it.

What we also don't want, is him spending bundles on those duds in the first place and worst of all, buying them from the teams we're supposed to be competing with. You make the point again and again about how difficult it is to compete with City, so please explain how the problem is eased by us buying players that they consider aren't good enough for their team?? If anything is fucking counter-intuitive, then it has to be that. Add to that the buying of Havertz, who Chelsea eventually discarded after he flopped for 3 full seasons. They must have snatched that £65 million out of Arteta's hand and run down the road like Usain Bolt.

However much you play down the £700 million spent, it's a fucking fortune in 4 years and in fairness to the Kroenkes (and I don't find that easy to say), they've totally backed Arteta. The trouble is, he's been buying too many duds like the ones above and if you add Vieira to those three, it must be the best part of £150 million wasted....that's without looking at the other failures he's bought.

You also seem to be forgetting how Klopp has so often pushed City every step of the way and despite inheriting a worse mess than Arteta inherited, he spent less in those first 4 years (even accounting for Viv's inflation ) and was winning trophies. He wasn't crying about how hard it was to compete with City, he got on with it, put a top team together and won things. If I'm not mistaken, he made two CL finals in his first 4-5 years, the second of which he won. So despite the presence of City, he's won the CL, the PL, a couple of League Cups and the FA Cup and pushed City every inch of the way on more than one occasion in the league.

So, forget the notion of the guys on here expecting us to outdo City, because no one does. What we expect is for Arteta to do all possible to bring success and not self-harm with his predilection for buying and playing obvious duds.

Just decided I needed to add this as an edit.....What is absolutely inexcusable, is Arteta's complete failure to add a proper goalscoring striker last summer. He deserves serious criticism for that, because it's that failing that will cost us more than any other.

[Arsenal Till I Die]

Let’s not make any mistake; as much as I’m sure most of us dislike the current club ownership, they’ve given Arteta a more than suitable purse to play with. Rice, Odegaard, Gabriel, Jorginho and Trossard are the only players of quality that have added to our squad; and I’d argue that Odegaard and Gabriel lack consistency and Jorginho was signed a few years late (I won’t hold the latter against Arteta though).

We SHOULD be competing comfortably, given how much we have spent. So, consistent capitulation shows either a lack of tactics or lack of squad management - either ways it’s on Arteta.

[SteveO 35]

ONE ARSENE WENGER.....THERES ONLY ONE ARSENE WENGER *



* and he's currently wearing a Mikel Arteta mask by being 2 players short of a team on his never ending project

[Gunner Rob]

ONE ARSENE WENGER.....THERES ONLY ONE ARSENE WENGER *



* and he's currently wearing a Mikel Arteta mask by being 2 players short of a team on his never ending project

It was a real nostalgia trip tonight - back to the tame CL exits of a decade ago, the 2 pre planned subs on 70 mins.

I think overall we lacked leetle bit of quality…

[SteveO 35]

ONE ARSENE WENGER.....THERES ONLY ONE ARSENE WENGER *



* and he's currently wearing a Mikel Arteta mask by being 2 players short of a team on his never ending project

It was a real nostalgia trip tonight - back to the tame CL exits of a decade ago, the 2 pre planned subs on 70 mins.

I think overall we lacked leetle bit of quality…

Great mental strength Rob !

[sk-gtfo]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... ka-bayern/

Sums it up I think, how much of this is on Arteta or due to a lack of quality on the bench?, maybe a bit of both, but for me he has to take some blame here, we should mix things up against wolves, yes we might drop points but putting out the same XI again will probably have the same effect and they will be even more jaded against the chavs.

We have to up the quality of our bench significantly for next season though and Arteta needs to use it a lot more or it will be groundhog day again.

[DB10GOONER]

People need to realise beating Peps Man City over 38 games is the hardest hurdle in football right now. If Man City are to win it this yeah, Pep would have won the league 6 out of 8 seasons. Only beaten by Klopp and Conte. You need to factor in Conte won in Pep's first year, before Pep had drilled the City team in his image. If you make that adjustment, he has won 6 out of 7.

People mention Inzaghi winning Serie A. Basically meaning Inzaghi has beaten out AC Milan who are second in Serie A. Now go and have a look at AC Milan's squad and tell me why Inzaghi is to be marvelled out. Ten Hag won the Dutch league twice - why the fuck I should care Tan Hag beat PSV? Why they fuck should I care that Inzaghi beat AC Milan?

When people say Arteta cant 'get it over the line', were talking about the highest the line has been in English football. No other team has dominated the league like City has under Pep. He is considered to be the greatest of all time. There is no one better.

Arteta has taken us from banter era to challenging the City juggernaut. If Arteta tenure as manager coincided when City had a Mancini or Pellegrini, it would be a very different story.

Most people don't even have an idea of who they would like to replace Arteta, all they know is they want Arteta out.

And another one brainwashed by the hype of the Premier League (which I think is generally pretty weak this season actually).
In the 17 years from 1973 Liverpool won the league 11 times out of 17 and only once finished out of the top 2, not to even mention what they achieved in Europe. That is proper domination for you. Yes City are maybe getting there but they have only won the Champions League once, even Forest have a better record than them in that.

Considering the amount of money Pep has at City he wouldnt even figure in my top 10 of greatest managers

Your not trendy and hip not putting Pep in your top 10 managers of all time. Your mental.

At barcelona he inherited the greatest generation of footballers.

He then left and when to the European champions who were also treble winners. He said to the board to sign neymar for a ridiculous amount and they said no. He then proceeded to turn a team that was ripping their rivals apart with free flowing football to shite tiki taka.

When he couldn't achieve European glory at Munich he left for the richest club on the planet.

1. Inherited a once in a lifetime generation
2. Left for the treble winning European champions
3. Moved to the richest club on the planet.

Not a chance is he the greatest.

Don't waste your time mate.

This guy is a soccer fanboy. He literally knows nothing about football. Years ago I caught his first alter ego "Wilson" copying and pasting from soccer blogs and posting on here like he was some kind of intellectual student of the game, but mixing the wording up enough that most people wouldn't spot it.

Pep, the greatest of all time?

Not even close. Not even in the top ten ffs.

Pep wins when Pep is at the richest club in any given league. He is a "good" manager that can buy trophies. Not even close to being one of the greats, never mind the greatest ffs.

[Kingralph]

Three seasons in a row now that we have completely melted during the run-in to the end is a season. Part of it is squad depth and playing people to death, but some must be about mentality too.

Is Arteta our Brendan Rodgers?

[Bob Bayliss]

Trying hard to be objective, even though I've never been a fan of his.

It's difficult in this day and age to separate out the "Head Coach's" contribution to a team's success or failure. Where do Arteta's responsibilities end and Edu's as "Sporting Director" begin? One thing that struck me from watching the Netflix fly-on-the-wall documentary "All or Nothing" was that Edu seemed to be the one with the overview of our squad requirements, what needed strengthening and who we should prioritise. Obviously Arteta was consulted, but he didn't seem to be the main player in terms of recruitment (a far cry from the days when Brian Clough would decide who he wanted then personally go and camp out on the player's doorstep until he signed).

I say this because it we are, individually, better equipped with talented players than we have been since the invincibles. We have strength in all positions (even left-back, if we can ever get Timber fit). We have depth and cover throughout the squad. But collectively, the team look to be every bit as unreliable, soft-centred and lacking in character as any other post-2006 Arsenal side.

I can't help to conclude that a better coach would, by now, have achieved better results from the players that have been recruited for (rather than by) him.

[DB10GOONER]

People need to realise beating Peps Man City over 38 games is the hardest hurdle in football right now. If Man City are to win it this yeah, Pep would have won the league 6 out of 8 seasons. Only beaten by Klopp and Conte. You need to factor in Conte won in Pep's first year, before Pep had drilled the City team in his image. If you make that adjustment, he has won 6 out of 7.

People mention Inzaghi winning Serie A. Basically meaning Inzaghi has beaten out AC Milan who are second in Serie A. Now go and have a look at AC Milan's squad and tell me why Inzaghi is to be marvelled out. Ten Hag won the Dutch league twice - why the fuck I should care Tan Hag beat PSV? Why they fuck should I care that Inzaghi beat AC Milan?

When people say Arteta cant 'get it over the line', were talking about the highest the line has been in English football. No other team has dominated the league like City has under Pep. He is considered to be the greatest of all time. There is no one better.

Arteta has taken us from banter era to challenging the City juggernaut. If Arteta tenure as manager coincided when City had a Mancini or Pellegrini, it would be a very different story.

Most people don't even have an idea of who they would like to replace Arteta, all they know is they want Arteta out.

You've now basically posted this exact post about thirty times on here. That is WUM behaviour. Mix it up or I will ban you for WUMing. The entire forum is sick of your carry on. Get a grip. And I'm sick of reading complaints about you.

Its the Arteta thread and most of the posters want him out. Why would I not post in response to my view which is wanting to keep him?

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Stop acting the clown mate.

[BFG4]

I feel like we are in a new era of AKB'S and the delusion is just as high. These people actually believe that Pep was fuming that Jesus and Zinchenko ended up at Arsenal
The same people that think Barca representatives are ready to pounce for boy wonder and those who see a 3rd successive collapse as a sign that we are going in the right direction under Arteta.

Like with Wenger, it will take a long time before common sense prevails.

[Nick Nack]

I feel like we are in a new era of AKB'S and the delusion is just as high. These people actually believe that Pep was fuming that Jesus and Zinchenko ended up at Arsenal
The same people that think Barca representatives are ready to pounce for boy wonder and those who see a 3rd successive collapse as a sign that we are going in the right direction under Arteta.

Like with Wenger, it will take a long time before common sense prevails.

I think you are right BFG.

What I can't get my head around and it goes back to the final years of the old French fucker, why do we have "supporters" who support the manager over the club.

You don't see it at any other club. Surely you support the club over all else, but it is definitely starting to feel like a new breed of AKB.

As others have said, it's like a weird fucking cult running through the fan base.

[Arsenal Till I Die]

I feel like we are in a new era of AKB'S and the delusion is just as high. These people actually believe that Pep was fuming that Jesus and Zinchenko ended up at Arsenal
The same people that think Barca representatives are ready to pounce for boy wonder and those who see a 3rd successive collapse as a sign that we are going in the right direction under Arteta.

Like with Wenger, it will take a long time before common sense prevails.

I think you are right BFG.

What I can't get my head around and it goes back to the final years of the old French fucker, why do we have "supporters" who support the manager over the club.

You don't see it at any other club. Surely you support the club over all else, but it is definitely starting to feel like a new breed of AKB.

As others have said, it's like a weird fucking cult running through the fan base.

A large chuck of our fanbase drank the Kool Aid when Wenger preached about 4th being as good as a trophy, and when the phrase “trust the process” was dished out etc; not to forget that when confidence was starting to waiver they’d wheel Wrighty out in club merchandise and have him big up “the boss.” That mindset set in like a parasite and it’s lingering, over and over. Arteta has cult status because, for some reason, he gained ‘fan favouritism’ towards his last year or two when Wenger used to drop sound bites about him being like a coach as well as a captain, or some shit. So that’s why this glorified kit man became the top pick to replace Wenger, then Emery.

We’re fully back in the Wenger post-2007 days. The cult is in full swing, the squad needs new players that it won’t get, the manager has his undroppable favourites, late subs in every game and there’s not an absolute hope in hells chance of change for the foreseeable future. The board won’t sack him, no club with any self respect will come in for him - so we’re back on the bantercoaster!

Literally back to square fucking one.

[SteveO 35]

I feel like we are in a new era of AKB'S and the delusion is just as high. These people actually believe that Pep was fuming that Jesus and Zinchenko ended up at Arsenal
The same people that think Barca representatives are ready to pounce for boy wonder and those who see a 3rd successive collapse as a sign that we are going in the right direction under Arteta.

Like with Wenger, it will take a long time before common sense prevails.

In so many ways we are back to those late Wenger years. The man who apparently turned away every top manager job in Europe to stay loyal to the 8 million pressure less job he had here. Amazing how none of those clubs came in for him after Yankee Josh finally put the boot in the old tool 10 years too late. Barca and Real Madrid fire managers after 1 year without a major trophy - hopefully they'll settle now for a Copa Del Rey once in 4 years and take the world's greatest manager away

[augie]

A few stats for those lauding the cone boy for being as high as we are in the league -

1. Two of the four premier league teams that played in this seasons champions league finished rock bottom of their groups - has that ever happened before ?

2. There is no premier league team in champions league semi finals - it is four years since that last happened

3. There is only ONE premier league club left in the 3 uefa competitions semi finals stage - when did that happen last ?

4. That last remaining club is being managed by the guy who the cone boy supporters continue to mock on here - a guy whose successes show peps cone boy up to be the pretender that he really is

The standard of the premier league is so poor of late that everton can be docked points twice this season and still stay up Manure have lost TWELVE league games this season and have a minus goal difference, and yet they sit in 7th place ffs - how shit must the rest of the teams below them be ??? There are intelligent guys on here that for most part make good points, but the argument that the quality of this premier league is quite high is laughable - liverpool have just got hammered by the 6th best team in a shit italian league and who are over 30pts behind league leaders. We were fcuking steeped to beat a portugese team on penalties this season and were knocked out by a portugese club last season - we are not talking europe's elite here. The premier league is declining year after year, and all this "progress" should be quantified instead of lauded imo