Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[StuartL]

If that Leeds game has shown us anything its that Martinez-Lite is a novice and has practically zero in-game management knowledge.

We will get humiliated in the CL -

- should we get in. (Trying not to jinx us here).

Personally think that should be levelled more at the players, 2-0 up and a man up I think they were complacent, and thought the game was won.

[g88ner]

If that Leeds game has shown us anything its that Martinez-Lite is a novice and has practically zero in-game management knowledge.

We will get humiliated in the CL -

- should we get in. (Trying not to jinx us here).

Personally think that should be levelled more at the players, 2-0 up and a man up I think they were complacent, and thought the game was won.

Agreed. Arteta always seems to get the blame but it was poor final balls and decision making in key moments that did us, so it’s the players who should own that. Obviously at 2-1 we shit the bed a little but it’s not like we had experienced old timers to bring on and settle us down

Anyway, great result again. Pleased for Arteta and the players.

[DB10GOONER]

If that Leeds game has shown us anything its that Martinez-Lite is a novice and has practically zero in-game management knowledge.

We will get humiliated in the CL -

- should we get in. (Trying not to jinx us here).

Personally think that should be levelled more at the players, 2-0 up and a man up I think they were complacent, and thought the game was won.

Could not disagree more Stu. The manager picks the players. Players do what managers tell them to do. The manager sets the tone and the mindset. The manager should change the set up or the personnel during the game if needed. Martinez-Lite does none of that. At the very least he should have a strong captain in there that can encourage, direct and - if needed - force the players to do what needs to be done. But Martinez-Lite doesn't believe in captains, instead going with the completely stupid loser mentality of "the leadership group".

No way can Martinez-Lite get a pass on today.

[SteveO 35]

If that Leeds game has shown us anything its that Martinez-Lite is a novice and has practically zero in-game management knowledge.

We will get humiliated in the CL -

- should we get in. (Trying not to jinx us here).

Personally think that should be levelled more at the players, 2-0 up and a man up I think they were complacent, and thought the game was won.

Could not disagree more Stu. The manager picks the players. Players do what managers tell them to do. The manager sets the tone and the mindset. The manager should change the set up or the personnel during the game if needed. Martinez-Lite does none of that. At the very least he should have a strong captain in there that can encourage, direct and - if needed - force the players to do what needs to be done. But Martinez-Lite doesn't believe in captains, instead going with the completely stupid loser mentality of "the leadership group".

No way can Martinez-Lite get a pass on today.

And this is where lack of on field leadership makes the manager more culpable....a TA6 PV4 character doesn't look at the sidelines or shit their pants at 2-1 up against 10 men. I'd agree with those defending Arteta if he had 2 or 3 senior figures out there who had downed tools- but he hasn't and he has deliberately chosen youth at all costs...and in that case you live or die by it because there isn't anyone to take matters into their own hands

What the fuck is wrong with signing a couple of prime 28-32 year olds for fuck sake.

Average age of City's starting line up.....26.8. Youngest player 24, eldest 31. Liverpool 27.8, youngest 22, eldest 31

It really isn't that hard to work out is it ?

[gooner265]

Only on this forum would people be miserable about going 4 points clear of spurs with 3 games to go and 1 point behind Chelsea for 3rd
Ive had a great day

[g88ner]

Only on this forum would people be miserable about going 4 points clear of spurs with 3 games to go and 1 point behind Chelsea for 3rd
Ive had a great day

Yeah, it’s really weird. I was delighted by the result too by the way!

[DB10GOONER]

Only on this forum would people be miserable about going 4 points clear of spurs with 3 games to go and 1 point behind Chelsea for 3rd
Ive had a great day

Yeah, it’s really weird. I was delighted by the result too by the way!

With respect, that's complete bollocks lads and you both know it. No one is "miserable". Everyone is happy we are 4 points clear of the scum. Idiotic comment to say we aren't.

But a scrappy win that was one header at the end there away from a draw at home against 10 men relegation fodder is only papering over bigger problems with the club and team. What's the point in pretending we are happy about that? Are we not entitled to expect more from this manager (with an extended improved contract) or these highly paid players at a club the size of Arsenal? Are we not entitled to look further than one stat?

We are told there is "a Process". We are told there is a "leadership group". Did you see any leaders out there yesterday? Did you see a "process"? Or if you are honest and put the internet snidiness aside, did you see a chaotic performance with poor in-game management and no one leading on the pitch?

We are never more than one stupid mistake away from self inflicted disaster. In every game.

It's all fine sitting there laughing at people's concerns but can either of you honestly hand on heart say you are confident we won't get humiliated early in the CL - if we get there? Do you honestly think things are fine now, we are 4 points clear of the scum, a team with two top players and not much else? There are no bigger issues with the players and the manager and the owners of the club? Really?

[BFG4]

Only on this forum would people be miserable about going 4 points clear of spurs with 3 games to go and 1 point behind Chelsea for 3rd
Ive had a great day

I'd argue this forum is full of realists who don't simply look at the result as a sign of whether a team performed or not. The performance for the most part yesterday was shocking, the team completely panicked against 10 men dross. The result was great but how anyone isn't pissed off at the way we failed to control the game is beyond me.

[augie]

I think that it is fair to say that we are now nailed on for top after the weekends results, but the decision to give pep's cone boy a new contract before that has been decided would be totally bizarre were it not for the fact that we already know that we have total brainless gobshites running our club In my opinion no other big club would have made that decision cos it had the potential to blow up in our faces big time had we shit the bed again and failed to get top.

My hope was that pep would decide that he would never win the champs league with city and would fcuk off in the summer and they would approach their former cone boy to takeover ...... that wont happen. I think that they are smart enough to recognise that he is not qualified to manager a top team or experienced quality players, and if he is intelligent he should realise that he is in a good situation with us where he can rumble along and lose games like brighton, southampton and palace without any repercussions, cos that would not be tolerated elsewhere - at the modern day AFC the ambition has a ceiling (top 4) and as long as he gets there we will be subjected to a pr campaign with cliches like "trust the process", and it will pacify a lot of fans

[augie]

Only on this forum would people be miserable about going 4 points clear of spurs with 3 games to go and 1 point behind Chelsea for 3rd
Ive had a great day

I'd argue this forum is full of realists who don't simply look at the result as a sign of whether a team performed or not. The performance for the most part yesterday was shocking, the team completely panicked against 10 men dross. The result was great but how anyone isn't pissed off at the way we failed to control the game is beyond me.

See it is funny that in a game where we play well but ultimately lose (for whatever reason), we are told that the performance was encouraging and we should be positive about that, but then in a game like yesterday when we win but dont play well and end up holding on, we are told that the result is all that matters - personally the performances will for the most part be where my focus is (except in games like scum where results are all that matters) because it kinda tells you where we are going, but luck for and against you can influence results and should be factored in before any blame or credit is dished out

[gooner265]

Only on this forum would people be miserable about going 4 points clear of spurs with 3 games to go and 1 point behind Chelsea for 3rd
Ive had a great day

Yeah, it’s really weird. I was delighted by the result too by the way!

With respect, that's complete bollocks lads and you both know it. No one is "miserable". Everyone is happy we are 4 points clear of the scum. Idiotic comment to say we aren't.

But a scrappy win that was one header at the end there away from a draw at home against 10 men relegation fodder is only papering over bigger problems with the club and team. What's the point in pretending we are happy about that? Are we not entitled to expect more from this manager (with an extended improved contract) or these highly paid players at a club the size of Arsenal? Are we not entitled to look further than one stat?

We are told there is "a Process". We are told there is a "leadership group". Did you see any leaders out there yesterday? Did you see a "process"? Or if you are honest and put the internet snidiness aside, did you see a chaotic performance with poor in-game management and no one leading on the pitch?

We are never more than one stupid mistake away from self inflicted disaster. In every game.

It's all fine sitting there laughing at people's concerns but can either of you honestly hand on heart say you are confident we won't get humiliated early in the CL - if we get there? Do you honestly think things are fine now, we are 4 points clear of the scum, a team with two top players and not much else? There are no bigger issues with the players and the manager and the owners of the club? Really?

Id just got home from the game and a good day with the lads and never meant to be flippant , so apologies. i just get frustrated with negativity afterca great result albeit poor performance as rightly stated.
Yesterday was yet another game where we didnt kill off the opposition, even more frustrating with 10 men, its something we need to learn quickly but I do think that'll come with experience.
Pepe was a strange decision and should never play again for the club ESR should have been on earlier.
As for Champions League if we make it we will clearly strengthen so difficult to judge how we will do yet.

[g88ner]

Only on this forum would people be miserable about going 4 points clear of spurs with 3 games to go and 1 point behind Chelsea for 3rd
Ive had a great day

Yeah, it’s really weird. I was delighted by the result too by the way!

With respect, that's complete bollocks lads and you both know it. No one is "miserable". Everyone is happy we are 4 points clear of the scum. Idiotic comment to say we aren't.

To be fair mate, you can’t say no one was miserable we won when you literally said, soon after full time, that all you feel is anger and you agreed with SteveO that it felt like a defeat (I’ve pasted it below).

There seems to be a race to the bottom culture on here sometimes where people seem to exaggerate their negative views. Even after I big win. Just doesn’t seem right or genuine to me. We can all see the faults but it’s also ok to enjoy a result.

I don’t know how you can say all that yet call my comment idiotic… but thanks for saying it “with respect” though mate. Meant a lot

The rest of your post though? Bloody hell mate. Can’t believe you’re even asking me those questions. Of course I can see the faults ffs

Actually feels like a loss

Fucking weirdly does in a way. I should be thrilled here but honestly all I am is angry.

[DB10GOONER]

Only on this forum would people be miserable about going 4 points clear of spurs with 3 games to go and 1 point behind Chelsea for 3rd
Ive had a great day

Yeah, it’s really weird. I was delighted by the result too by the way!

With respect, that's complete bollocks lads and you both know it. No one is "miserable". Everyone is happy we are 4 points clear of the scum. Idiotic comment to say we aren't.

But a scrappy win that was one header at the end there away from a draw at home against 10 men relegation fodder is only papering over bigger problems with the club and team. What's the point in pretending we are happy about that? Are we not entitled to expect more from this manager (with an extended improved contract) or these highly paid players at a club the size of Arsenal? Are we not entitled to look further than one stat?

We are told there is "a Process". We are told there is a "leadership group". Did you see any leaders out there yesterday? Did you see a "process"? Or if you are honest and put the internet snidiness aside, did you see a chaotic performance with poor in-game management and no one leading on the pitch?

We are never more than one stupid mistake away from self inflicted disaster. In every game.

It's all fine sitting there laughing at people's concerns but can either of you honestly hand on heart say you are confident we won't get humiliated early in the CL - if we get there? Do you honestly think things are fine now, we are 4 points clear of the scum, a team with two top players and not much else? There are no bigger issues with the players and the manager and the owners of the club? Really?

Id just got home from the game and a good day with the lads and never meant to be flippant , so apologies. i just get frustrated with negativity afterca great result albeit poor performance as rightly stated.
Yesterday was yet another game where we didnt kill off the opposition, even more frustrating with 10 men, its something we need to learn quickly but I do think that'll come with experience.
Pepe was a strange decision and should never play again for the club ESR should have been on earlier.
As for Champions League if we make it we will clearly strengthen so difficult to judge how we will do yet.

No need to apologise mate. I know you weren't getting personal. I too hate the negativity but it's honest negativity born of about 15 years of frustration. I genuinely hope he can turn it around and win the PL and the CL. I just think he is too inexperienced to do that.

[DB10GOONER]

Only on this forum would people be miserable about going 4 points clear of spurs with 3 games to go and 1 point behind Chelsea for 3rd
Ive had a great day

Yeah, it’s really weird. I was delighted by the result too by the way!

With respect, that's complete bollocks lads and you both know it. No one is "miserable". Everyone is happy we are 4 points clear of the scum. Idiotic comment to say we aren't.

To be fair mate, you can’t say no one was miserable we won when you literally said, soon after full time, that all you feel is anger and you agreed with SteveO that it felt like a defeat (I’ve pasted it below).

There seems to be a race to the bottom culture on here sometimes where people seem to exaggerate their negative views. Even after I big win. Just doesn’t seem right or genuine to me. We can all see the faults but it’s also ok to enjoy a result.

I don’t know how you can say all that yet call my comment idiotic… but thanks for saying it “with respect” though mate. Meant a lot

The rest of your post though? Bloody hell mate. Can’t believe you’re even asking me those questions. Of course I can see the faults ffs

Actually feels like a loss

Fucking weirdly does in a way. I should be thrilled here but honestly all I am is angry.

You are completely acting the bollocks now mate. You know full well I was referring to the performance.

I also think you are insulting a lot of our members a little bit there by saying there is a "race to the bottom culture" on here and then admit you can see the faults in the team and club. Are they not entitled to express concern and anger over the things you admit exist?

There's a fine line between enjoying "a result" and enjoying a game. The result was brilliant. How we stumbled to it was appalling. Why pretend differently?

To be 4 points ahead of the scum going into the NLD is fantastic and takes away some of the stress of the NLD for us supporters - but we are also just as likely to get humiliated in that game as we are to win it.

Also I should say if you feel I insulted you then I absolutely unreservedly apologise mate. I've always held you in high regard on this forum.

[arrgee]

End of season scrappy wins are what Arsenal do well when it matters In 1970/71, there were a few home 1-0 wins against Burnley, Newcastle and Stoke before the win at the shit hole. The most frustrating season was 1988/89 when with three games left they lost to Derby and drew with Wimbledon. Had they been scrappy single goal wins it would have only required a draw at Anfield. And in 2003, Arsenal threw the title away with 3 draws and a defeat to dirty Leeds in the last few games.
At this stage of the season, it is about getting the points. And Arsenal this season have by and large got most of the points that would be expected of them (ignoring the recent 3 game run of losses)
So far apart from City, Victims*, Palace & Brighton, Arsenal have beaten every other team at least once. One of the problems with Wenger’s teams is that they dropped too many points unnecessarily with late goals. Not getting beaten in last three games will see the Gunners in the top 4.
21 wins in 35 games is pretty impressive. Wenger won the title with 23 in 1998. Great season so far for Captain Black, but he does have to finish the job unlike Emery.