Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[BobbyPires7]

I wouldn’t sack him and I don’t think there is realistically a Club in our position (rebuilding) that would. Perhaps prime Chelsea or Real Madrid but we aren’t them.

My view on is that the experienced players let us down. Our tactics are also massively at fault (Arteta). Jesus has stunk the place out since coming back. Partey has gone awol. Xhaka is Xhaka. At the same time Saka has run out of gas. Trossard wasn’t played when he was in form and is now a shadow. Gabriel has shit the bed whether he is with Holding or Kiwior (who worries me gravely after Brighton). We’ve mentally collapsed. Arteta has let it play out. It is deeply concerning to watch a manager that can get a side to top place to then allow them to unravel this quickly.

Tales of needing 6 players to go straight into the first team are fanciful. This squad as you see it may be stiffened in the midfield but thaf’s all I see in the first 11. Believe me now we have been found out tactically and next season will be a very hard slog. If we get off to a bad start it could get toxic. Our only hope is that this Summer is without any major tournament and we may be able to rest up and go again. My prediction is 5th though. I think we’ll finish behind City, Newcastle, United and Liverpool.

[John F]

I wouldn’t sack him and I don’t think there is realistically a Club in our position (rebuilding) that would. Perhaps prime Chelsea or Real Madrid but we aren’t them.

My view on is that the experienced players let us down. Our tactics are also massively at fault (Arteta). Jesus has stunk the place out since coming back. Partey has gone awol. Xhaka is Xhaka. At the same time Saka has run out of gas. Trossard wasn’t played when he was in form and is now a shadow. Gabriel has shit the bed whether he is with Holding or Kiwior (who worries me gravely after Brighton). We’ve mentally collapsed. Arteta has let it play out. It is deeply concerning to watch a manager that can get a side to top place to then allow them to unravel this quickly.

Tales of needing 6 players to go straight into the first team are fanciful. This squad as you see it may be stiffened in the midfield but thaf’s all I see in the first 11. Believe me now we have been found out tactically and next season will be a very hard slog. If we get off to a bad start it could get toxic. Our only hope is that this Summer is without any major tournament and we may be able to rest up and go again. My prediction is 5th though. I think we’ll finish behind City, Newcastle, United and Liverpool.

You have more faith than I have in the club stiffening the midfield. It has been needed for years but keeps getting ignored. I would say we lost the Title in the January window. We will sniff around Chelsea supporting Rice all summer long only for the Chavs or City to come in leaving us to settle on Elneny and Partey . I am thinking of putting my stick insects on the transfer market just in case Arteta is looking to build a formidable midfield around Viera.

[BobbyPires7]

I wouldn’t sack him and I don’t think there is realistically a Club in our position (rebuilding) that would. Perhaps prime Chelsea or Real Madrid but we aren’t them.

My view on is that the experienced players let us down. Our tactics are also massively at fault (Arteta). Jesus has stunk the place out since coming back. Partey has gone awol. Xhaka is Xhaka. At the same time Saka has run out of gas. Trossard wasn’t played when he was in form and is now a shadow. Gabriel has shit the bed whether he is with Holding or Kiwior (who worries me gravely after Brighton). We’ve mentally collapsed. Arteta has let it play out. It is deeply concerning to watch a manager that can get a side to top place to then allow them to unravel this quickly.

Tales of needing 6 players to go straight into the first team are fanciful. This squad as you see it may be stiffened in the midfield but thaf’s all I see in the first 11. Believe me now we have been found out tactically and next season will be a very hard slog. If we get off to a bad start it could get toxic. Our only hope is that this Summer is without any major tournament and we may be able to rest up and go again. My prediction is 5th though. I think we’ll finish behind City, Newcastle, United and Liverpool.

You have more faith than I have in the club stiffening the midfield. It has been needed for years but keeps getting ignored. I would say we lost the Title in the January window. We will sniff around Chelsea supporting Rice all summer long only for the Chavs or City to come in leaving us to settle on Elneny and Partey . I am thinking of putting my stick insects on the transfer market just in case Arteta is looking to build a formidable midfield around Viera.

I said “may” stiffen.

I don’t see Rice going to Chelsea. No European football. A squad with no striker. All they could offer him is wages. Just don’t see it. We’ll have our pants pulled down and I think he will end up being another Ramsdale. Lots of talking, not a lot of action in key moments.

This side needs some mentality monsters. Players who want to do dirty work and enjoy it. I don’t see Rice as that player. We need hungry South Americans or Eastern Europeans that can get nasty when they need to. This side is like a house of cards when pressure comes on it. It either changes or we will go round in circles for another 20 years.

PS - This side reminds of England at the Euros. Rode a wave of momentum and ultimately shit the bed against Italy. Italy didn’t deserve that title on paper but they had some old nasty bastards that wanted it more than England.

[nut flush gooner]

This thread is comical, goes all quiet for months then the usual sniping begins again.

First of all, winning the league these days requires near perfection, and secondly, a few posters have talked about the amount of money that Arsenal has spent over the last few years which is more than City, as one of their directors pointed out this week. BUT, City had the foundations of a £1.5bn investment into the club from 2008-2018, and towards the end of that decade they hired the best manager in the world.

If anyone thinks Arsenal can live with that spending a third of that amount since 2019, then they live in cloud cuckoo land especially as there is much more money in football today than there was in 2007/8.

We have dealt with putting out a competitive first eleven so far, the backup players are a big drop off. To win the title this season would have required circa 92 points. More than the invincibles in 2004, that was always going to be a big ask.

Yeah, it feels shit to finish 2nd in this way, but we need a bit of perspective. It's up to the Kroenke's now to put the players into the squad that will take us up to the next level, and even then if we signed the likes of Rice/Caicedo there are no guarantees in football.

[BobbyPires7]

This thread is comical, goes all quiet for months then the usual sniping begins again.

First of all, winning the league these days requires near perfection, and secondly, a few posters have talked about the amount of money that Arsenal has spent over the last few years which is more than City, as one of their directors pointed out this week. BUT, City had the foundations of a £1.5bn investment into the club from 2008-2018, and towards the end of that decade they hired the best manager in the world.

If anyone thinks Arsenal can live with that spending a third of that amount since 2019, then they live in cloud cuckoo land especially as there is much more money in football today than there was in 2007/8.

We have dealt with putting out a competitive first eleven so far, the backup players are a big drop off. To win the title this season would have required circa 92 points. More than the invincibles in 2004, that was always going to be a big ask.

Yeah, it feels shit to finish 2nd in this way, but we need a bit of perspective. It's up to the Kroenke's now to put the players into the squad that will take us up to the next level, and even then if we signed the likes of Rice/Caicedo there are no guarantees in football.

There is no excuse for the magnitude of this collapse. None. 9 points out of 24. Relegation form. Totally inexcusable from any Arsenal side in any season in history.

[SteveO 35]

This thread is comical, goes all quiet for months then the usual sniping begins again.

First of all, winning the league these days requires near perfection, and secondly, a few posters have talked about the amount of money that Arsenal has spent over the last few years which is more than City, as one of their directors pointed out this week. BUT, City had the foundations of a £1.5bn investment into the club from 2008-2018, and towards the end of that decade they hired the best manager in the world.

If anyone thinks Arsenal can live with that spending a third of that amount since 2019, then they live in cloud cuckoo land especially as there is much more money in football today than there was in 2007/8.

We have dealt with putting out a competitive first eleven so far, the backup players are a big drop off. To win the title this season would have required circa 92 points. More than the invincibles in 2004, that was always going to be a big ask.

Yeah, it feels shit to finish 2nd in this way, but we need a bit of perspective. It's up to the Kroenke's now to put the players into the squad that will take us up to the next level, and even then if we signed the likes of Rice/Caicedo there are no guarantees in football.

It isn't the 2nd placed finish that's the issue here - it's the continuing of the yellow belly streak that has run through the club for years. Two wins from eight is virtually relegation form especially when considering that run includes games against some of the worst teams in the league. Seeing the team get physically bullied and collapse when one defender is out, is the issue. If we'd given it a decent shot like Liverpool did the year 97 points wasn't enough then fair enough. It doesn't seem to me that Arteta values leadership or physicality in his teams, despite it being glaringly obvious to everyone else. Why shouldn't we be able to call that out? He has been here for over 3 years now and we don't seem to have improved that aspect of our club at all

[xisstential]

I see Arteta as a Wenger clone.....he doesn't value leadership nor does he put stock in strong aggressive personalities. Like Wenger, I believe Arteta feels that they are a threat to HIS leadership. Which shows not strength on Arteta's part, but weakness.
There was no love between Wenger and Viera, in fact Wenger got shot of him and then started his rebuilding project with midfielders in the Santi/ Wilshire mode, that went nowhere for 15 years, and he also put absolutely zero value on the captaincy. He even said as much. I think Wenger saw himself as manager, coach, captain, decision maker, excuse maker, blame shifter, valet parking manager, catering manager, fund raiser, .....you name it. There was no room for anyone else. Arteta is a Wenger disciple.

The harm Wenger did to AFC is still being felt. I honestly believe we will never win anything meaningful under Arteta.......I think the Wenger influence hangs heavy over him. What we have seen in the last 6 weeks is Wenger 2.0. Arteta should be let go. We won't though, he'll be around for another 3 years at least, piss away a few hundred million and win sweet fa.

[augie]

This thread is comical, goes all quiet for months then the usual sniping begins again.

First of all, winning the league these days requires near perfection, and secondly, a few posters have talked about the amount of money that Arsenal has spent over the last few years which is more than City, as one of their directors pointed out this week. BUT, City had the foundations of a £1.5bn investment into the club from 2008-2018, and towards the end of that decade they hired the best manager in the world.

If anyone thinks Arsenal can live with that spending a third of that amount since 2019, then they live in cloud cuckoo land especially as there is much more money in football today than there was in 2007/8.

We have dealt with putting out a competitive first eleven so far, the backup players are a big drop off. To win the title this season would have required circa 92 points. More than the invincibles in 2004, that was always going to be a big ask.

Yeah, it feels shit to finish 2nd in this way, but we need a bit of perspective. It's up to the Kroenke's now to put the players into the squad that will take us up to the next level, and even then if we signed the likes of Rice/Caicedo there are no guarantees in football.

Near perfection no, but def requires an ability to beat the likes of southampton, shammers and forest who were all relegation candidates - instead of focusing on city and their wealth/spending, how about focusing on the shit teams that we capitulated to in this run in - you can compare our spending to theirs if you want to bring the money factor into the debate. Its funny that the money always gets used as an excuse when we are compared with city, but always gets ignored when we lose and draw with teams that cost far less to assemble than our weak as pish babies

Again I will say that I am as anti the kroenkes as any Gooner is, but I cannot go ahead with this "its now up to the kroenkes" - this manager has been financially backed to an unprecedented level at our club, and simply put either him or edu (or both) are not signing the type of players needed to take this club into the winners enclosure again. The kroenke's didnt buy the portugese pussy that is vieira, and they certainly havent continually selected him ahead of smith-rowe. Wiggy and his son didnt play a centre midfielder at right back, a right back at centre back, and a centre back at left back yesterday - that basque fool did that all on his own

[sk-gtfo]

Here we go again..
Just like in Wenger's days though they accept failure, that is KSE for you.

They will be happy with top 4, of course they won't say that, we all know it though, that was the limit of their ambition 10 years ago and still is now.

I think next season we'll be back to fighting with Newcastle, chavs and Liverpool for a top 4 place, United might replace us as a distant 2nd to city if they get money pumped in.

All so tedious really, be excited!!

[fivetothree]

How can people realistically expect us to challenge for the league against a nation state?

Just look at the difference in budgets...the only way we will consistently challenge for the title is by selling the club to a nation state. Sad but true.

Some of the opinions here FFS. . Liverpool were flawless for about 5 years and still only won one title!

[augie]

How can people realistically expect us to challenge for the league against a nation state?

Just look at the difference in budgets...the only way we will consistently challenge for the title is by selling the club to a nation state. Sad but true.

Some of the opinions here FFS. . Liverpool were flawless for about 5 years and still only won one title!

Again with the money defence - are forest, southampton and the shammers owned by wealthy nations too ?

[IW8Goalmachine]

Fella here at work celebrating second place

[fivetothree]

How can people realistically expect us to challenge for the league against a nation state?

Just look at the difference in budgets...the only way we will consistently challenge for the title is by selling the club to a nation state. Sad but true.

Some of the opinions here FFS. . Liverpool were flawless for about 5 years and still only won one title!

Again with the money defence - are forest, southampton and the shammers owned by wealthy nations too ?

Yeah they were poor performances, no doubt. Do you not think part of that is the fact that our squad is not deep enough compared with Citys?

[DB10GOONER]

How can people realistically expect us to challenge for the league against a nation state?

Just look at the difference in budgets...the only way we will consistently challenge for the title is by selling the club to a nation state. Sad but true.

Some of the opinions here FFS. . Liverpool were flawless for about 5 years and still only won one title!

"Some of the opinions here FFS"?

Yep some of them are a tad ridiculous. Like this one: "Liverpool were flawless for about 5 years and still only won one title!"

They weren't "flawless" then, were they?

[DB10GOONER]

Apparently he set an unwanted record....

We were top of the league for 248 days. Never in the history of English top flight football has any team led that long without winning the league.