Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[mcdowell42]

Stick with me StuartL, I won't steer you wrong

[SteveO 35]

If this transfer window goes to plan then Clubfoot Clive will be gone, as will Holding - essentially the end of the Wenger era, unless you count the odd appearance from Elneny and who knows if he will be here still either

As for the starting line up Ramsdale, Timber/Tomiyasu/White, Saliba, Gabriel, Zinchenko, Rice, Lavia, Odegaard, Saka, Martinelli and Jesus - all his signings with the exception of Saliba, Martinelli and Saka who were generally considered to be the best players of last season and amongst the hottest prospects in world football.

His signings in that starting line up would amount to around 450m and the other three mentioned would be considered to be worth somewhere in the region of 250m-300m between them.

Absolutely zero excuse for anything other than a highly competitive PL season, finishing within 10 points of the already known winners, and decent runs in all cup competitions. Chelsea, Spurs and Man Ure won't transform themselves into world beaters overnight with new managers (Ten Hag still finding his feet IMO). Liverpool are the threat from those outside the top 4 but their defence isn't close to being the PL winning class of 2020 and there is still a rebuild to be done there. They are already moaning about Salah probably missing a month of football to the AFCON including some big games (including at our gaff), so he will be a loss too.

The board's faith in Arteta for 4 years and some serious investment means anything less than a very competitive top 3 finish isn't success. I don't see too many great teams in Europe either - so the days of the Wenger Wallopings to Bayern and Barca should long be forgotten. Arteta's European record has been nothing short of shameful and has been excused because of the snob factor around the EL, and the 'holy grail' of a top 4 finish. No more

[gooner265]

If this transfer window goes to plan then Clubfoot Clive will be gone, as will Holding - essentially the end of the Wenger era, unless you count the odd appearance from Elneny and who knows if he will be here still either

As for the starting line up Ramsdale, Timber/Tomiyasu/White, Saliba, Gabriel, Zinchenko, Rice, Lavia, Odegaard, Saka, Martinelli and Jesus - all his signings with the exception of Saliba, Martinelli and Saka who were generally considered to be the best players of last season and amongst the hottest prospects in world football.

His signings in that starting line up would amount to around 450m and the other three mentioned would be considered to be worth somewhere in the region of 250m-300m between them.

Absolutely zero excuse for anything other than a highly competitive PL season, finishing within 10 points of the already known winners, and decent runs in all cup competitions. Chelsea, Spurs and Man Ure won't transform themselves into world beaters overnight with new managers (Ten Hag still finding his feet IMO). Liverpool are the threat from those outside the top 4 but their defence isn't close to being the PL winning class of 2020 and there is still a rebuild to be done there. They are already moaning about Salah probably missing a month of football to the AFCON including some big games (including at our gaff), so he will be a loss too.

The board's faith in Arteta for 4 years and some serious investment means anything less than a very competitive top 3 finish isn't success. I don't see too many great teams in Europe either - so the days of the Wenger Wallopings to Bayern and Barca should long be forgotten. Arteta's European record has been nothing short of shameful and has been excused because of the snob factor around the EL, and the 'holy grail' of a top 4 finish. No more

Yep , second or third and a cup will be a decent season. Tierney may still be here as well, plus havertz and I think we'll sign a striker or keep balogun , Eddie will go.

[augie]

Hilarious - the fool claims that he identified problems within the club when he worked for city, yet still hasnt been able to fix the biggest problem in the club (complete lack of backbone) and he manager for over 3 years now

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/22806784 ... -man-city/

[fivetothree]

Yeah, what a fraud he only got us our highest point total in 20 years. Total imposter.

[Retro Gunner]

Hilarious - the fool claims that he identified problems within the club when he worked for city, yet still hasnt been able to fix the biggest problem in the club (complete lack of backbone) and he manager for over 3 years now

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/22806784 ... -man-city/

I'm surprised he didn't pick up on the problem during the 5 or so years he was playing for us, because it was no fucking different then.

He was in the team that gave one of the worst performances I've ever seen from an Arsenal side and I mean in the top 2 or 3. It was the away leg at the San Siro in the CL against AC Milan, on a freezing night, with snow laying about all over the city. I was at the game and we lost 4-0 and it was the most inept, dysfunctional, clueless performance that you could witness. Arteta was as crap as everyone else. Absolutely dire night. I'd say we were as "souless" then as we were when he walked through the door as manager.

[BobbyPires7]

Not sure I get the hate for Arteta. Yes he’s made a boatload of tactical errors but he’s in his first managerial job. He’s 41 years of age…..

From the moment he arrived I was told with absolute certainty that he would transform the club. His persona is infectious and he builds massive confidence.

From what I can see he has identified where we blew up last season and is trying to fix it. Rice is a leader in the middle. Timber would sort us out at right back. Havertz is quality cover. Obviously we haven’t signed Rice or Timber yet but at least I can see what he’s trying to do. He looks like he’s learned to me. He also is happy for Xhaka to leave.

Just don’t get the hate. He’s improved us massively.

[augie]

Not sure I get the hate for Arteta. Yes he’s made a boatload of tactical errors but he’s in his first managerial job. He’s 41 years of age…..

From the moment he arrived I was told with absolute certainty that he would transform the club. His persona is infectious and he builds massive confidence.

From what I can see he has identified where we blew up last season and is trying to fix it. Rice is a leader in the middle. Timber would sort us out at right back. Havertz is quality cover. Obviously we haven’t signed Rice or Timber yet but at least I can see what he’s trying to do. He looks like he’s learned to me. He also is happy for Xhaka to leave.

Just don’t get the hate. He’s improved us massively.

Firstly, it is very easy to say that he has improved us massively after a season when the victims, chavs, manure and the scum were all absolutely horrendously shit - lets see how well he does in a season when our rivals put up more of a contest at the top

Secondly, lets be honest here and say that 3 years ago the VAST majority of Gooners knew xhaka was a liability - I'm not talking about him telling the fans to fcuk off cos a lot of people prefer to focus on that act rather than focus on what led to that incident. He has never been good enough and has always been a selfish player who shirks responsibility and blames everyone else, and that day he chose to sulk and waste time thus putting himself over the needs of the team when we all wanted him off the pitch and the team. You say that arteta is happy for xhaka to leave but I will argue that it either (a) he has reluctantly agreed to let him leave (b) why has it taken 3 seasons for this genius to see how shit the swiss turd is ? Did arteta do anything different last season in his treatment of xhaka to make you believe that he has finally seen the light ? I would say emphatically no - when the swiss turd was fit, he played nearly all the time. I dont for one nano second believe he now recognises xhaka's weaknesses, and I still believe that if xhaka decides to stay, then he will again be in arteta's starting 11 every week.

Lastly, I believe that if arteta had his way saliba would have been sold last summer, and if media reports are to be believed, saliba thinks the same. Likewise I believe that arteta would be more than happy to sell smith-rowe in the morning, and I suspect that someone above him is blocking that. He has openly spoken to the media of his wish to have a team of his own signings, and that is influencing his treatment of smith-rowe and tierney. He brought in players from successful clubs (madrid and city) thinking that they would bring a winning mentality with them, but that ignores the fact that those players were back up players in those successes, and last season when the chips were down all 3 showed their lack of mettle. I get that all successful managers need some degree of stubborness and self belief, but imo this is a guy who arrogance far exceeds his achievements.

Actually let me finish up by adding this - in emery's first season the grove was rocking for the first time in years, and packed houses frequently sang about "having our Arsenal back". Things went off the rails at the end cos it was generally believed that emery had lost the dressing rooms and questions about his ability to handle star players started doing the rounds in the media and within the fanbase. As I said a while back, the club sacked emery in the midst of his troubles but stood beside arteta when he ran into trouble with those same players, and that is a lot to do with why we are where we are now.

[BobbyPires7]

Not sure I get the hate for Arteta. Yes he’s made a boatload of tactical errors but he’s in his first managerial job. He’s 41 years of age…..

From the moment he arrived I was told with absolute certainty that he would transform the club. His persona is infectious and he builds massive confidence.

From what I can see he has identified where we blew up last season and is trying to fix it. Rice is a leader in the middle. Timber would sort us out at right back. Havertz is quality cover. Obviously we haven’t signed Rice or Timber yet but at least I can see what he’s trying to do. He looks like he’s learned to me. He also is happy for Xhaka to leave.

Just don’t get the hate. He’s improved us massively.

Firstly, it is very easy to say that he has improved us massively after a season when the victims, chavs, manure and the scum were all absolutely horrendously shit - lets see how well he does in a season when our rivals put up more of a contest at the top

Secondly, lets be honest here and say that 3 years ago the VAST majority of Gooners knew xhaka was a liability - I'm not talking about him telling the fans to fcuk off cos a lot of people prefer to focus on that act rather than focus on what led to that incident. He has never been good enough and has always been a selfish player who shirks responsibility and blames everyone else, and that day he chose to sulk and waste time thus putting himself over the needs of the team when we all wanted him off the pitch and the team. You say that arteta is happy for xhaka to leave but I will argue that it either (a) he has reluctantly agreed to let him leave (b) why has it taken 3 seasons for this genius to see how shit the swiss turd is ? Did arteta do anything different last season in his treatment of xhaka to make you believe that he has finally seen the light ? I would say emphatically no - when the swiss turd was fit, he played nearly all the time. I dont for one nano second believe he now recognises xhaka's weaknesses, and I still believe that if xhaka decides to stay, then he will again be in arteta's starting 11 every week.

Lastly, I believe that if arteta had his way saliba would have been sold last summer, and if media reports are to be believed, saliba thinks the same. Likewise I believe that arteta would be more than happy to sell smith-rowe in the morning, and I suspect that someone above him is blocking that. He has openly spoken to the media of his wish to have a team of his own signings, and that is influencing his treatment of smith-rowe and tierney. He brought in players from successful clubs (madrid and city) thinking that they would bring a winning mentality with them, but that ignores the fact that those players were back up players in those successes, and last season when the chips were down all 3 showed their lack of mettle. I get that all successful managers need some degree of stubborness and self belief, but imo this is a guy who arrogance far exceeds his achievements.

Actually let me finish up by adding this - in emery's first season the grove was rocking for the first time in years, and packed houses frequently sang about "having our Arsenal back". Things went off the rails at the end cos it was generally believed that emery had lost the dressing rooms and questions about his ability to handle star players started doing the rounds in the media and within the fanbase. As I said a while back, the club sacked emery in the midst of his troubles but stood beside arteta when he ran into trouble with those same players, and that is a lot to do with why we are where we are now.

Last season he played Xhaka further forward and negated his ability to fuck up in dangerous areas.

Saliba. Yes you have a point.

Emery couldn’t speak proper English. It wasn’t his time. Arteta has better people skills and so the ownership team have bought into his ethos.

Emery blew top 4 (yes I know Arteta did the same). Crucially he embarrassed us in the Europa final vs Chelsea with a tactical set up that would baffle anyone. I don’t think Emery was the answer. He may be now but Arteta is in situ and he is history now.

[Retro Gunner]

Not sure I get the hate for Arteta. Yes he’s made a boatload of tactical errors but he’s in his first managerial job. He’s 41 years of age…..

From the moment he arrived I was told with absolute certainty that he would transform the club. His persona is infectious and he builds massive confidence.

From what I can see he has identified where we blew up last season and is trying to fix it. Rice is a leader in the middle. Timber would sort us out at right back. Havertz is quality cover. Obviously we haven’t signed Rice or Timber yet but at least I can see what he’s trying to do. He looks like he’s learned to me. He also is happy for Xhaka to leave.

Just don’t get the hate. He’s improved us massively.

What is it with this contemporary, easy use of the word "hate"? It's a word that I very rarely use, because it was never a word that was bandied about easily and so matter of factly. I don't hate Arteta and I'm not sure that I've come across anyone else on here who has claimed to hate him, or even written as though they hate him.

Being critical, questioning and even doubting his ability to do the job, does not equate to hate. Personally, I thought it was a big mistake for a club of our supposed standing and ambition, to give the job to a novice. Maybe it told us all we need to know about the owners and how they view the club, because I guarantee you that City, Utd, or Liverpool would never do it, The Chavs virtually did it with Fat Frank and look how that ended up.

He may, or may not get there as a manager at the Arsenal and despite last season's better than expected performance, the jury is still out for me. He seems to have too many of his mentor Wenger's characteristics for my liking, especially his playing favourites, his preference for good boys and objection to players with some spirit and his petty vindictiveness if someone steps out of line. Above all else...and I've said this countless times on here....I simply can't have faith in a manager that is so wedded to Xhaka. I can't rate a manager that rates that bloke as a footballer.

He's got a lot to prove before I'm convinced and his transfer activity this closed season isn't inspiring me with any more belief. 60 odd million for a failed Chelsea cast-off and what's looking like a fortune on an average to ok big fish in a very small West Ham pond. Let's not forget that he's spent an awful lot of money in the last 3 years, having received serious financial backing from the owners and there are doubts about a number of his buys.

So, in my opinion, I've got plenty of things that give me cause to doubt and to even criticise Arteta for, but none of that means that I "hate" him. I'll reserve that for any very serious shit that might touch my life.

[Retro Gunner]

By the way, I'm far from convinced that Xhaka is leaving and as Augie says above, if he decides to stay, then I'm sure that Arteta will have the new contract ready, that he'll celebrate it as "like a new signing" and as Augie says, he'll be a starter every week.

Exactly what makes you think Arteta has finally "seen the light" with Xhaka, I've no idea? There's no evidence to suggest that at all. It was Clubfoot himself that was the one talking about leaving.

[augie]

Not sure I get the hate for Arteta. Yes he’s made a boatload of tactical errors but he’s in his first managerial job. He’s 41 years of age…..

From the moment he arrived I was told with absolute certainty that he would transform the club. His persona is infectious and he builds massive confidence.

From what I can see he has identified where we blew up last season and is trying to fix it. Rice is a leader in the middle. Timber would sort us out at right back. Havertz is quality cover. Obviously we haven’t signed Rice or Timber yet but at least I can see what he’s trying to do. He looks like he’s learned to me. He also is happy for Xhaka to leave.

Just don’t get the hate. He’s improved us massively.

Firstly, it is very easy to say that he has improved us massively after a season when the victims, chavs, manure and the scum were all absolutely horrendously shit - lets see how well he does in a season when our rivals put up more of a contest at the top

Secondly, lets be honest here and say that 3 years ago the VAST majority of Gooners knew xhaka was a liability - I'm not talking about him telling the fans to fcuk off cos a lot of people prefer to focus on that act rather than focus on what led to that incident. He has never been good enough and has always been a selfish player who shirks responsibility and blames everyone else, and that day he chose to sulk and waste time thus putting himself over the needs of the team when we all wanted him off the pitch and the team. You say that arteta is happy for xhaka to leave but I will argue that it either (a) he has reluctantly agreed to let him leave (b) why has it taken 3 seasons for this genius to see how shit the swiss turd is ? Did arteta do anything different last season in his treatment of xhaka to make you believe that he has finally seen the light ? I would say emphatically no - when the swiss turd was fit, he played nearly all the time. I dont for one nano second believe he now recognises xhaka's weaknesses, and I still believe that if xhaka decides to stay, then he will again be in arteta's starting 11 every week.

Lastly, I believe that if arteta had his way saliba would have been sold last summer, and if media reports are to be believed, saliba thinks the same. Likewise I believe that arteta would be more than happy to sell smith-rowe in the morning, and I suspect that someone above him is blocking that. He has openly spoken to the media of his wish to have a team of his own signings, and that is influencing his treatment of smith-rowe and tierney. He brought in players from successful clubs (madrid and city) thinking that they would bring a winning mentality with them, but that ignores the fact that those players were back up players in those successes, and last season when the chips were down all 3 showed their lack of mettle. I get that all successful managers need some degree of stubborness and self belief, but imo this is a guy who arrogance far exceeds his achievements.

Actually let me finish up by adding this - in emery's first season the grove was rocking for the first time in years, and packed houses frequently sang about "having our Arsenal back". Things went off the rails at the end cos it was generally believed that emery had lost the dressing rooms and questions about his ability to handle star players started doing the rounds in the media and within the fanbase. As I said a while back, the club sacked emery in the midst of his troubles but stood beside arteta when he ran into trouble with those same players, and that is a lot to do with why we are where we are now.

Last season he played Xhaka further forward and negated his ability to fuck up in dangerous areas.

Saliba. Yes you have a point.

Emery couldn’t speak proper English. It wasn’t his time. Arteta has better people skills and so the ownership team have bought into his ethos.

Emery blew top 4 (yes I know Arteta did the same). Crucially he embarrassed us in the Europa final vs Chelsea with a tactical set up that would baffle anyone. I don’t think Emery was the answer. He may be now but Arteta is in situ and he is history now.

Buddy my referencing emery was purely in response to arteta's laughable and disrespectful comments about how the club looked under emery - I am not trying to compare the two of them and I'm not trying to argue about who is the better manager. It is easy for arteta to claim that he has developed a positive vibe around the club, when the players who brought the negative vibes under him and emery are no longer at the club. Did arteta show any more ability to handle those players than emery did ? No fcuking chance, and maybe even GG would have struggled nowadays with the personalities of some players, but it is a whole lot easier to get a positive vibe into a club when the troublemakers are no longer in town

[BobbyPires7]

Not a fan of quote towers so will start afresh.

Not really sure where this is going to be honest. Emery is a very good manager. He was on a hiding to nothing replacing Wenger. Lack of English certainly didn’t help. Nor did a load of Wenger’s overpaid gutless c unts stinking the place out. Emery was unlucky. Perhaps with more faith he would have turned things around. A lot of life is being in the right place at the right time and talking the talk. Arteta does that. I agree. Arteta also has severe shortcomings tactically. But I think he has done a lot of things right. He has ruthlessly cleared out a load of shit. He has the players bought into his ideas. You have to take the rough with the smooth. It’s a project and I think he needs a few more years. It’s quite possible that he wins nothing though with City around. That’s just a fact.

[Stuart L (2)]

Not sure I get the hate for Arteta. Yes he’s made a boatload of tactical errors but he’s in his first managerial job. He’s 41 years of age…..

From the moment he arrived I was told with absolute certainty that he would transform the club. His persona is infectious and he builds massive confidence.

From what I can see he has identified where we blew up last season and is trying to fix it. Rice is a leader in the middle. Timber would sort us out at right back. Havertz is quality cover. Obviously we haven’t signed Rice or Timber yet but at least I can see what he’s trying to do. He looks like he’s learned to me. He also is happy for Xhaka to leave.

Just don’t get the hate. He’s improved us massively.

What is it with this contemporary, easy use of the word "hate"? It's a word that I very rarely use, because it was never a word that was bandied about easily and so matter of factly. I don't hate Arteta and I'm not sure that I've come across anyone else on here who has claimed to hate him, or even written as though they hate him.

Being critical, questioning and even doubting his ability to do the job, does not equate to hate. Personally, I thought it was a big mistake for a club of our supposed standing and ambition, to give the job to a novice. Maybe it told us all we need to know about the owners and how they view the club, because I guarantee you that City, Utd, or Liverpool would never do it, The Chavs virtually did it with Fat Frank and look how that ended up.

He may, or may not get there as a manager at the Arsenal and despite last season's better than expected performance, the jury is still out for me. He seems to have too many of his mentor Wenger's characteristics for my liking, especially his playing favourites, his preference for good boys and objection to players with some spirit and his petty vindictiveness if someone steps out of line. Above all else...and I've said this countless times on here....I simply can't have faith in a manager that is so wedded to Xhaka. I can't rate a manager that rates that bloke as a footballer.

He's got a lot to prove before I'm convinced and his transfer activity this closed season isn't inspiring me with any more belief. 60 odd million for a failed Chelsea cast-off and what's looking like a fortune on an average to ok big fish in a very small West Ham pond. Let's not forget that he's spent an awful lot of money in the last 3 years, having received serious financial backing from the owners and there are doubts about a number of his buys.

So, in my opinion, I've got plenty of things that give me cause to doubt and to even criticise Arteta for, but none of that means that I "hate" him. I'll reserve that for any very serious shit that might touch my life.

Didn’t Utd appoint Solskjaer a few years back






Just saying

He is doing something right

Most points since the invincible team

Most league goals in a premier league season

Youngest team in the league

Beat scum Home and away

Beat Chelsea Home and away

Has international players happy to sign up and play under him.

Question him by all means, his substitutions have occasionally cost us games (Utd away ) one or two players ( Vieira for sure ) have not produced and the Xhaka persistence is infuriating.

But we were 2nd, streets ahead of all bar City and I think we will run them close again next season…..

I agree he has been massively financially backed and I said at the start of the season (somewhere) that he had his own team this season and had nowhere to hide.

[DB10GOONER]

Not a fan of quote towers

You fucking cùnt.