Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[Arsenal Till I Die]

When you start whining like a Bitch about Ooooh! I'm Just Expressing My Opinions when called on your Negativity... And then try and get out of it when we win like one of those Radio4 Noncey Farts... then that's what looks and sound like "Woke" MF.


There's a difference between Constructive Criticism and Always Flopping About Like a Gay Limp Voiced Bitch Ooooh! We're Going to lose this Just because we aren't playing well.


Arsenal Till I Die!? aka: Mr Negative Woke from Frumpington.

One: It’s an internet forum about football, OBG. I can express my opinion freely (even if you don’t like it),,so long as I don’t attack other members (which seems to be a sticking point for you).

Two: You’ve been given a long leash on here for your of labelling people nonces or peados etc before, I’ve never agreed with it because it could lead to the forum getting in trouble. Do better.

Three: Throwing around homophobic slurs is a real good look, OBG. Ironically in the same sentence you discussed constructive criticism.

Four: Shakespeare couldn’t have written it better himself.

I can't help it if you're just one of those NegativeCUN.Ts.

So you can’t help reacting to my opinions in an abusive, childish and homophobic way?

You’re embarrassing yourself, man. Do better.

Whatever


ps: Naaah Naah Naaah Naaah! C.unt.

“Naaah Naah Naaah Naaah! C.unt.” - Plato.

[Redarmy]

Theres Only one Bard on the Forum, One Bard on the Forum

[Retro Gunner]

Ill say it again. If we ever sacked Arteta. He would easily get another role at a top club. Barcelona for instance, and if timing was right, he could replace Pep at Man City. If Arteta were available, you and you chairman of Man United or Chelsea, would be a perfect choice to rebuild.

Still amazed the lack of foresight so many of on this forum with regards to not seeing Arteta high qualities as a manager

This is your opinion, and, as the saying goes, opinions are like arseholes, everyone has got one...

If at the end of this season Arteta doesn't win a trophy, this will be his fourth season trophyless. Even in the dark, dark days of the old french fucker he still managed to win 3 Fa cups.

Quite frankly unless Diet Pep wins the league or chumpions league then his position needs to be assessed.

Football is a results business and each team has a benchmark it should be measured against. For some it is avoiding relegation, for the Arsenal it should be winning trophies. If Diet Pep doesn't deliver then his position should be in reasonable doubt.

I for one, and I probably speak for others on here, do not want to go back to the grim days of when idiots supported the manager over the club. Sadly I think the cultists that supported Wenger over the club linger like a bad smell and we are getting close to going down that road again.

And by the way, I think you are wumming and your post is trying to get a reaction from other posters on here, but as I've been on the booze tonight I felt like replying.

Because I support a manager who has made us relevant again, having been years adrift of being a title threat and not being taken seriously by the teams at the top end, and im a WUM.

You do realise Arteta is supported by the majority of Arsenal fans?

Out of interest Wilson, what would you consider to be success at the end of the season?

Both Viv and Nutty have been brave enough to say that success would be a close 2nd place league finish and a CL semi. I agree that is the minimum we are entitled to expect given the time and financial support Arteta has been granted.

So what is success for you and what should happen if we come up short?

[wilson2.0]

Ill say it again. If we ever sacked Arteta. He would easily get another role at a top club. Barcelona for instance, and if timing was right, he could replace Pep at Man City. If Arteta were available, you and you chairman of Man United or Chelsea, would be a perfect choice to rebuild.

Still amazed the lack of foresight so many of on this forum with regards to not seeing Arteta high qualities as a manager

This is your opinion, and, as the saying goes, opinions are like arseholes, everyone has got one...

If at the end of this season Arteta doesn't win a trophy, this will be his fourth season trophyless. Even in the dark, dark days of the old french fucker he still managed to win 3 Fa cups.

Quite frankly unless Diet Pep wins the league or chumpions league then his position needs to be assessed.

Football is a results business and each team has a benchmark it should be measured against. For some it is avoiding relegation, for the Arsenal it should be winning trophies. If Diet Pep doesn't deliver then his position should be in reasonable doubt.

I for one, and I probably speak for others on here, do not want to go back to the grim days of when idiots supported the manager over the club. Sadly I think the cultists that supported Wenger over the club linger like a bad smell and we are getting close to going down that road again.

And by the way, I think you are wumming and your post is trying to get a reaction from other posters on here, but as I've been on the booze tonight I felt like replying.

Because I support a manager who has made us relevant again, having been years adrift of being a title threat and not being taken seriously by the teams at the top end, and im a WUM.

You do realise Arteta is supported by the majority of Arsenal fans?

Out of interest Wilson, what would you consider to be success at the end of the season?

Both Viv and Nutty have been brave enough to say that success would be a close 2nd place league finish and a CL semi. I agree that is the minimum we are entitled to expect given the time and financial support Arteta has been granted.

So what is success for you and what should happen if we come up short?

Ill be honest, im glad to be taken seriously again. City fans are wary of us coming to the Etihad, where as a few years ago they would be expecting a regulation 3 points. Arteta is starting to wind up rival fans which is always a good sign

Its hard to win the PL. Liverpool and Man City are fantastic teams with excellent managers. Those who think the grass is greener and we need a 'proper' manager to get to the next level should realise one bad appointment and it can all go to shit.

[Retro Gunner]

Ill say it again. If we ever sacked Arteta. He would easily get another role at a top club. Barcelona for instance, and if timing was right, he could replace Pep at Man City. If Arteta were available, you and you chairman of Man United or Chelsea, would be a perfect choice to rebuild.

Still amazed the lack of foresight so many of on this forum with regards to not seeing Arteta high qualities as a manager

This is your opinion, and, as the saying goes, opinions are like arseholes, everyone has got one...

If at the end of this season Arteta doesn't win a trophy, this will be his fourth season trophyless. Even in the dark, dark days of the old french fucker he still managed to win 3 Fa cups.

Quite frankly unless Diet Pep wins the league or chumpions league then his position needs to be assessed.

Football is a results business and each team has a benchmark it should be measured against. For some it is avoiding relegation, for the Arsenal it should be winning trophies. If Diet Pep doesn't deliver then his position should be in reasonable doubt.

I for one, and I probably speak for others on here, do not want to go back to the grim days of when idiots supported the manager over the club. Sadly I think the cultists that supported Wenger over the club linger like a bad smell and we are getting close to going down that road again.

And by the way, I think you are wumming and your post is trying to get a reaction from other posters on here, but as I've been on the booze tonight I felt like replying.

Because I support a manager who has made us relevant again, having been years adrift of being a title threat and not being taken seriously by the teams at the top end, and im a WUM.

You do realise Arteta is supported by the majority of Arsenal fans?

Out of interest Wilson, what would you consider to be success at the end of the season?

Both Viv and Nutty have been brave enough to say that success would be a close 2nd place league finish and a CL semi. I agree that is the minimum we are entitled to expect given the time and financial support Arteta has been granted.

So what is success for you and what should happen if we come up short?

Ill be honest, im glad to be taken seriously again. City fans are wary of us coming to the Etihad, where as a few years ago they would be expecting a regulation 3 points. Arteta is starting to wind up rival fans which is always a good sign

Its hard to win the PL. Liverpool and Man City are fantastic teams with excellent managers. Those who think the grass is greener and we need a 'proper' manager to get to the next level should realise one bad appointment and it can all go to shit.

Ah ok, obfuscation. Not as brave as Viv and Nutty, who were prepared to tell us what success would look like to them. You've ducked the question with some nebulous claptrap about "being taken seriously" and that "City fans are wary of us". Where'd that notion come from? You don't have to go back a "few years" to see us get comfortably turned over at their place, only back to the last time we played there.

As for the proper manager bit, I wasn't discussing Arteta, I was simply asking what outcome would equal a successful season in your opinion. You've bottled it and not answered. Mind you, you don't like answering questions, as augie knows. Not good for the credibility Old Chap.

[Viv Andersons Tache]

Yeah Wilson answer the question for gods sake.

You need to set a benchmark placeholder for the team that if not met you get to be miserable after.

Simply being content about the direction we are headed in isn’t remotely good enough,

Please provide a mark expansive answer please.

E.g if we finish 4th im going to sit in a dark room listening to Radiohead with a bottle of vodka and a razor blade.

3rd .. .sack the management team. Let’s transfer list Saka and Odegaard because they are obviously bottlers and not good enough,

2nd, ho hum can’t complain I suppose

1st, we should be happy I guess but we still have that loser Havertz in the squad and I still have sadness in my heart. The management team needs to acknowledge its failures

[Retro Gunner]

Yeah Wilson answer the question for gods sake.

You need to set a benchmark placeholder for the team that if not met you get to be miserable after.

Simply being content about the direction we are headed in isn’t remotely good enough,

Please provide a mark expansive answer please.

E.g if we finish 4th im going to sit in a dark room listening to Radiohead with a bottle of vodka and a razor blade.

3rd .. .sack the management team. Let’s transfer list Saka and Odegaard because they are obviously bottlers and not good enough,

2nd, ho hum can’t complain I suppose

1st, we should be happy I guess but we still have that loser Havertz in the squad and I still have sadness in my heart. The management team needs to acknowledge its failures

Oh dear, straw men aplenty there Viv. All that after me praising you for being brave enough to define success.

You, Wilson, whoever else are perfectly entitled to your opinions and it's good to hear them, but when someone is so disparaging about the opinion of others and takes the banging of the pro Arteta drum to irrational levels, then it's fair to hold them to account and ask them to define success. You know as well as I do, that the reason Wilson avoids answering fair and straightforward questions is because he knows full well that the answers will, or might eventually, dismantle his position.

It's cowardice. Express your opinions for sure, but if you're going to be as strident and confrontational as Wilson has been, then at least have the courage of your convictions and not hide behind vague and weak notions of success.

[nut flush gooner]

Yeah Wilson answer the question for gods sake.

You need to set a benchmark placeholder for the team that if not met you get to be miserable after.

Simply being content about the direction we are headed in isn’t remotely good enough,

Please provide a mark expansive answer please.

E.g if we finish 4th im going to sit in a dark room listening to Radiohead with a bottle of vodka and a razor blade.

3rd .. .sack the management team. Let’s transfer list Saka and Odegaard because they are obviously bottlers and not good enough,

2nd, ho hum can’t complain I suppose

1st, we should be happy I guess but we still have that loser Havertz in the squad and I still have sadness in my heart. The management team needs to acknowledge its failures

Oh dear, straw men aplenty there Viv. All that after me praising you for being brave enough to define success.

You, Wilson, whoever else are perfectly entitled to your opinions and it's good to hear them, but when someone is so disparaging about the opinion of others and takes the banging of the pro Arteta drum to irrational levels, then it's fair to hold them to account and ask them to define success. You know as well as I do, that the reason Wilson avoids answering fair and straightforward questions is because he knows full well that the answers will, or might eventually, dismantle his position.

It's cowardice. Express your opinions for sure, but if you're going to be as strident and confrontational as Wilson has been, then at least have the courage of your convictions and not hide behind vague and weak notions of success.

For clarity Retro, I mean that 2nd and CL semi is progression. Ultimately success is winning one of the fuckers. Progression is acceptable.

And given the current footballing climate, in any other era this side would have a massive shout of winning the league. But today we live in a time where its ok for countries to bankroll football clubs, and give them a leg up and a platform to hire the best manager in the world. That's exactly what City has done. No matter what you think of Klopp as as person, he also is a decent coach.

Arteta has got Arsenal into a position, where the players would die for the badge these days. I look at this team and think, they get Arsenal. And its not just the home grown players, someone like Saliba who absolutely loves it when we score is a perfect example.

[Retro Gunner]

Yeah Wilson answer the question for gods sake.

You need to set a benchmark placeholder for the team that if not met you get to be miserable after.

Simply being content about the direction we are headed in isn’t remotely good enough,

Please provide a mark expansive answer please.

E.g if we finish 4th im going to sit in a dark room listening to Radiohead with a bottle of vodka and a razor blade.

3rd .. .sack the management team. Let’s transfer list Saka and Odegaard because they are obviously bottlers and not good enough,

2nd, ho hum can’t complain I suppose

1st, we should be happy I guess but we still have that loser Havertz in the squad and I still have sadness in my heart. The management team needs to acknowledge its failures

Oh dear, straw men aplenty there Viv. All that after me praising you for being brave enough to define success.

You, Wilson, whoever else are perfectly entitled to your opinions and it's good to hear them, but when someone is so disparaging about the opinion of others and takes the banging of the pro Arteta drum to irrational levels, then it's fair to hold them to account and ask them to define success. You know as well as I do, that the reason Wilson avoids answering fair and straightforward questions is because he knows full well that the answers will, or might eventually, dismantle his position.

It's cowardice. Express your opinions for sure, but if you're going to be as strident and confrontational as Wilson has been, then at least have the courage of your convictions and not hide behind vague and weak notions of success.

For clarity Retro, I mean that 2nd and CL semi is progression. Ultimately success is winning one of the fuckers. Progression is acceptable.

And given the current footballing climate, in any other era this side would have a massive shout of winning the league. But today we live in a time where its ok for countries to bankroll football clubs, and give them a leg up and a platform to hire the best manager in the world. That's exactly what City has done. No matter what you think of Klopp as as person, he also is a decent coach.

Arteta has got Arsenal into a position, where the players would die for the badge these days. I look at this team and think, they get Arsenal. And its not just the home grown players, someone like Saliba who absolutely loves it when we score is a perfect example.

That's fair enough nutty, I can't argue with any of that. I think we can all accept progression and losing out to a pimped up City is no disgrace, although we need to be close. As for Klopp, I don't mind him tbh. He's done a very good job at Liverpool and without the bankrolled City, he'd have won a couple of more league titles. He's achieved a lot without unreasonable expenditure imo.

As you know, I need to see a lot more from our side before being convinced that Arteta is the answer and while I was happy for him to continue after last season, he really punctured my faith in him by not buying a striker, but spending 65 million on Havertz. That has installed a huge doubt that it will take quite a lot to shift. However, we are undoubtedly in a better place than we have been for years, I'll definitely agree with that. How we finish the season determines a lot for me.

[augie]

Yeah Wilson answer the question for gods sake.

You need to set a benchmark placeholder for the team that if not met you get to be miserable after.

Simply being content about the direction we are headed in isn’t remotely good enough,

Please provide a mark expansive answer please.

E.g if we finish 4th im going to sit in a dark room listening to Radiohead with a bottle of vodka and a razor blade.

3rd .. .sack the management team. Let’s transfer list Saka and Odegaard because they are obviously bottlers and not good enough,

2nd, ho hum can’t complain I suppose

1st, we should be happy I guess but we still have that loser Havertz in the squad and I still have sadness in my heart. The management team needs to acknowledge its failures

Oh dear, straw men aplenty there Viv. All that after me praising you for being brave enough to define success.

You, Wilson, whoever else are perfectly entitled to your opinions and it's good to hear them, but when someone is so disparaging about the opinion of others and takes the banging of the pro Arteta drum to irrational levels, then it's fair to hold them to account and ask them to define success. You know as well as I do, that the reason Wilson avoids answering fair and straightforward questions is because he knows full well that the answers will, or might eventually, dismantle his position.

It's cowardice. Express your opinions for sure, but if you're going to be as strident and confrontational as Wilson has been, then at least have the courage of your convictions and not hide behind vague and weak notions of success.

For clarity Retro, I mean that 2nd and CL semi is progression. Ultimately success is winning one of the fuckers. Progression is acceptable.

And given the current footballing climate, in any other era this side would massive shout of winning the league. But today we live in a time where its ok for countries to bankroll football clubs, and give them a leg up and a platform to hire the best manager in the world. That's exactly what City has done. No matter what you think of Klopp as as person, he also is a decent coach.

Arteta has got Arsenal into a position, where the players would die for the badge these days. I look at this team and think, they get Arsenal. And its not just the home grown players, someone like Saliba who absolutely loves it when we score is a perfect example.

The Arsenal team from the 98-2006 era would steamroller the current team and there is no doubt about that

[Viv Andersons Tache]

Yeah Wilson answer the question for gods sake.

You need to set a benchmark placeholder for the team that if not met you get to be miserable after.

Simply being content about the direction we are headed in isn’t remotely good enough,

Please provide a mark expansive answer please.

E.g if we finish 4th im going to sit in a dark room listening to Radiohead with a bottle of vodka and a razor blade.

3rd .. .sack the management team. Let’s transfer list Saka and Odegaard because they are obviously bottlers and not good enough,

2nd, ho hum can’t complain I suppose

1st, we should be happy I guess but we still have that loser Havertz in the squad and I still have sadness in my heart. The management team needs to acknowledge its failures

Oh dear, straw men aplenty there Viv. All that after me praising you for being brave enough to define success.

You, Wilson, whoever else are perfectly entitled to your opinions and it's good to hear them, but when someone is so disparaging about the opinion of others and takes the banging of the pro Arteta drum to irrational levels, then it's fair to hold them to account and ask them to define success. You know as well as I do, that the reason Wilson avoids answering fair and straightforward questions is because he knows full well that the answers will, or might eventually, dismantle his position.

It's cowardice. Express your opinions for sure, but if you're going to be as strident and confrontational as Wilson has been, then at least have the courage of your convictions and not hide behind vague and weak notions of success.

For clarity Retro, I mean that 2nd and CL semi is progression. Ultimately success is winning one of the fuckers. Progression is acceptable.

And given the current footballing climate, in any other era this side would have a massive shout of winning the league. But today we live in a time where its ok for countries to bankroll football clubs, and give them a leg up and a platform to hire the best manager in the world. That's exactly what City has done. No matter what you think of Klopp as as person, he also is a decent coach.

Arteta has got Arsenal into a position, where the players would die for the badge these days. I look at this team and think, they get Arsenal. And its not just the home grown players, someone like Saliba who absolutely loves it when we score is a perfect example.

As you know, I need to see a lot more from our side before being convinced that Arteta is the answer and while I was happy for him to continue after last season, he really punctured my faith in him by not buying a striker, but spending 65 million on Havertz. That has installed a huge doubt that it will take quite a lot to shift..

Even if Arteta had done this we still would have needed to sign another midfielder you couldn’t go through a season relying on ESR as cover for Jorginho and’ Rice It would have been so lightweight in the middle.

That’s also ignoring that a striker would have cost more. Rasmus Hojlund cost 72 million as opposed to Havertz 58+ add ons. He had to sign Raya on loan because there was no money left. The money simply didn’t exist to do what you lost faith about. Even if we sold Nketiah it wouldn’t provide the budget we needed for the top class striker plus midfield addition. It just isn’t living in the real world

[nut flush gooner]

Yeah Wilson answer the question for gods sake.

You need to set a benchmark placeholder for the team that if not met you get to be miserable after.

Simply being content about the direction we are headed in isn’t remotely good enough,

Please provide a mark expansive answer please.

E.g if we finish 4th im going to sit in a dark room listening to Radiohead with a bottle of vodka and a razor blade.

3rd .. .sack the management team. Let’s transfer list Saka and Odegaard because they are obviously bottlers and not good enough,

2nd, ho hum can’t complain I suppose

1st, we should be happy I guess but we still have that loser Havertz in the squad and I still have sadness in my heart. The management team needs to acknowledge its failures

Oh dear, straw men aplenty there Viv. All that after me praising you for being brave enough to define success.

You, Wilson, whoever else are perfectly entitled to your opinions and it's good to hear them, but when someone is so disparaging about the opinion of others and takes the banging of the pro Arteta drum to irrational levels, then it's fair to hold them to account and ask them to define success. You know as well as I do, that the reason Wilson avoids answering fair and straightforward questions is because he knows full well that the answers will, or might eventually, dismantle his position.

It's cowardice. Express your opinions for sure, but if you're going to be as strident and confrontational as Wilson has been, then at least have the courage of your convictions and not hide behind vague and weak notions of success.

For clarity Retro, I mean that 2nd and CL semi is progression. Ultimately success is winning one of the fuckers. Progression is acceptable.

And given the current footballing climate, in any other era this side would have a massive shout of winning the league. But today we live in a time where its ok for countries to bankroll football clubs, and give them a leg up and a platform to hire the best manager in the world. That's exactly what City has done. No matter what you think of Klopp as as person, he also is a decent coach.

Arteta has got Arsenal into a position, where the players would die for the badge these days. I look at this team and think, they get Arsenal. And its not just the home grown players, someone like Saliba who absolutely loves it when we score is a perfect example.

As you know, I need to see a lot more from our side before being convinced that Arteta is the answer and while I was happy for him to continue after last season, he really punctured my faith in him by not buying a striker, but spending 65 million on Havertz. That has installed a huge doubt that it will take quite a lot to shift..

Even if Arteta had done this we still would have needed to sign another midfielder you couldn’t go through a season relying on ESR as cover for Jorginho and’ Rice It would have been so lightweight in the middle.

That’s also ignoring that a striker would have cost more. Rasmus Hojlund cost 72 million as opposed to Havertz 58+ add ons. He had to sign Raya on loan because there was no money left. The money simply didn’t exist to do what you lost faith about. Even if we sold Nketiah it wouldn’t provide the budget we needed for the top class striker plus midfield addition. It just isn’t living in the real world

The money is there mate, FSR and FFP are capping what we can do in the transfer market. Kroenke is minted, he's richer than Todd Boehly, but just a tad more financially savvy.

[Viv Andersons Tache]

Oh dear, straw men aplenty there Viv. All that after me praising you for being brave enough to define success.

You, Wilson, whoever else are perfectly entitled to your opinions and it's good to hear them, but when someone is so disparaging about the opinion of others and takes the banging of the pro Arteta drum to irrational levels, then it's fair to hold them to account and ask them to define success. You know as well as I do, that the reason Wilson avoids answering fair and straightforward questions is because he knows full well that the answers will, or might eventually, dismantle his position.

It's cowardice. Express your opinions for sure, but if you're going to be as strident and confrontational as Wilson has been, then at least have the courage of your convictions and not hide behind vague and weak notions of success.

For clarity Retro, I mean that 2nd and CL semi is progression. Ultimately success is winning one of the fuckers. Progression is acceptable.

And given the current footballing climate, in any other era this side would have a massive shout of winning the league. But today we live in a time where its ok for countries to bankroll football clubs, and give them a leg up and a platform to hire the best manager in the world. That's exactly what City has done. No matter what you think of Klopp as as person, he also is a decent coach.

Arteta has got Arsenal into a position, where the players would die for the badge these days. I look at this team and think, they get Arsenal. And its not just the home grown players, someone like Saliba who absolutely loves it when we score is a perfect example.

As you know, I need to see a lot more from our side before being convinced that Arteta is the answer and while I was happy for him to continue after last season, he really punctured my faith in him by not buying a striker, but spending 65 million on Havertz. That has installed a huge doubt that it will take quite a lot to shift..

Even if Arteta had done this we still would have needed to sign another midfielder you couldn’t go through a season relying on ESR as cover for Jorginho and’ Rice It would have been so lightweight in the middle.

That’s also ignoring that a striker would have cost more. Rasmus Hojlund cost 72 million as opposed to Havertz 58+ add ons. He had to sign Raya on loan because there was no money left. The money simply didn’t exist to do what you lost faith about. Even if we sold Nketiah it wouldn’t provide the budget we needed for the top class striker plus midfield addition. It just isn’t living in the real world

The money is there mate, FSR and FFP are capping what we can do in the transfer market. Kroenke is minted, he's richer than Todd Boehly, but just a tad more financially savvy.

But as you point out we can’t spend it anyway unless you go down the route of being owner funded and financed. Kroenkes money isn’t our money.

Its being suggested Chelsea themselves are in all sorts of trouble because the financial tricks they used for amortisation still won’t protect them from FFP and they have a breach on the horizon. It’s being suggested unless they offload loads of players this summer they have a major breach worse than Everton’s.

There’s no point pretending there’s a pot of cash we can spend that sits there unused. The club has posted a 53 million pre tax loss.

[TeeCee]

True. We'll be ok next season because we'll sell Rambo, Eddie, Nelson and ESR, obviously the latter 3 being pure profit so we should get around
35m - Rambo
15m - The Feather
12m - Half Nelson
25m - ESR
20m - Partey
Maybe another 20m for Tierney before he sprains his wrist signing a contract for someone.......
So maybe 120-130m from sales?

Best thing of all is close to 100m guaranteed for the CL performance this season......and that's BEFORE we get to the semi's!!

[Retro Gunner]

Yeah Wilson answer the question for gods sake.

You need to set a benchmark placeholder for the team that if not met you get to be miserable after.

Simply being content about the direction we are headed in isn’t remotely good enough,

Please provide a mark expansive answer please.

E.g if we finish 4th im going to sit in a dark room listening to Radiohead with a bottle of vodka and a razor blade.

3rd .. .sack the management team. Let’s transfer list Saka and Odegaard because they are obviously bottlers and not good enough,

2nd, ho hum can’t complain I suppose

1st, we should be happy I guess but we still have that loser Havertz in the squad and I still have sadness in my heart. The management team needs to acknowledge its failures

Oh dear, straw men aplenty there Viv. All that after me praising you for being brave enough to define success.

You, Wilson, whoever else are perfectly entitled to your opinions and it's good to hear them, but when someone is so disparaging about the opinion of others and takes the banging of the pro Arteta drum to irrational levels, then it's fair to hold them to account and ask them to define success. You know as well as I do, that the reason Wilson avoids answering fair and straightforward questions is because he knows full well that the answers will, or might eventually, dismantle his position.

It's cowardice. Express your opinions for sure, but if you're going to be as strident and confrontational as Wilson has been, then at least have the courage of your convictions and not hide behind vague and weak notions of success.

For clarity Retro, I mean that 2nd and CL semi is progression. Ultimately success is winning one of the fuckers. Progression is acceptable.

And given the current footballing climate, in any other era this side would have a massive shout of winning the league. But today we live in a time where its ok for countries to bankroll football clubs, and give them a leg up and a platform to hire the best manager in the world. That's exactly what City has done. No matter what you think of Klopp as as person, he also is a decent coach.

Arteta has got Arsenal into a position, where the players would die for the badge these days. I look at this team and think, they get Arsenal. And its not just the home grown players, someone like Saliba who absolutely loves it when we score is a perfect example.

As you know, I need to see a lot more from our side before being convinced that Arteta is the answer and while I was happy for him to continue after last season, he really punctured my faith in him by not buying a striker, but spending 65 million on Havertz. That has installed a huge doubt that it will take quite a lot to shift..

Even if Arteta had done this we still would have needed to sign another midfielder you couldn’t go through a season relying on ESR as cover for Jorginho and’ Rice It would have been so lightweight in the middle.

That’s also ignoring that a striker would have cost more. Rasmus Hojlund cost 72 million as opposed to Havertz 58+ add ons. He had to sign Raya on loan because there was no money left. The money simply didn’t exist to do what you lost faith about. Even if we sold Nketiah it wouldn’t provide the budget we needed for the top class striker plus midfield addition. It just isn’t living in the real world

Blimey mate this is tiresome. Ok, we bought Declan Rice. I’m on record on the transfer thread saying that we still needed a solid centre mid, because I wanted us to sell Partey and I lacked confidence in Jorginho. However, I also said that the main priority was a top quality striker. If the funds were not available for both, then in my opinion the striker was paramount.

So, whether a striker and a midfielder, or only a striker, or only a midfielder, what we didn’t need was Kai fucking Havertz in any position. That’s why I lack faith in Arteta. We didn’t need Havertz at any cost, let alone 65 million.

We could have sold Eddie to Palace for 30 million, added the 65 and had 95 million to spend on a striker. That buys you a very good player.
Instead, we have Havertz who’s crap as either an advanced mid or a striker.

If we’d bought the striker and didn’t have funds to add a centre mid, then we could have played Trossard or ESR in the advanced mid role, both of whom are a mile in front of Havertz. We could even play Rice further forward and had a choice of Jorginho, Partey, or Elneny sitting deep. That’s 6 players to mix and match to fill 2 positions, which is doable even allowing for injuries. There was no need for Havertz.

So, last time, my faith in Arteta was seriously shaken by an enduring devotion to that donkey Xhaka and then by the inexplicable decision to buy the German dud who had categorically flopped in 3 years at Chelsea. Regardless of what our finances were, not a penny should have been spent on Havertz…in my opinion of course.

Fuck me.

Having re-read this, I need to add an edit….please don’t come back and say that I didn’t rate Partey or Jorginho, but then suggest playing them. Yep, because Havertz is a far worse option for the side. I’d like better than them, but we’ve added a total dud.