As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next few weeks.
I'm afraid those absolutely pathetic away defeats at Everton, Man Ure and the Mickeys are still very recent in my mind, and the world's least surprising four game unbeaten run against pathetic Southampton, Leeds, Sunderland and an injury ravaged West Ham (three at home) haven't erased that from my mind.
We won't lose to Norwich or Wolves, which will have all the 'top four' talk spiralling out of control.
We've then got City, two legs against Liverpool Academy with Forest sandwiched in between before a trip to the swamp. Seven games in 22 days and there will undoubtedly be some rotation along the way. If we play stiffs in the two cups and get rolled over by Liverpool U-18s and Forest, in this so called top four challenge, I for one will be absolutely seething.
If he manages to come through January still occupying fourth and in the hunt for the two domestic cups, I'll be the first to say that I'll be starting to think differently and will allow myself to hope.
You will be surprised to hear I am on the fence about Arteta now Steve. He's made some huge errors in team selection in recent weeks, and should have been toast months ago if we are honest.
I hope he is resting ESR rather than deciding Ode is his preferred number 10. I get a feeling that despite being very good over the last few weeks Ode will get found out vs the bigger sides.
In saying that if he finishes top 6 this season, he isn't going anywhere and we should back him. If we have another good summer in the transfer market we will have a competitive squad for the first time in years.
I am pleased Martinelli is back and firing though, it took Auba being Auba to get a look in again though.
Yep, agree with all that. The main thing I will give him credit for this season is settling upon a backline, and if he'd have done that last season rather than drawing lots every week, I firmly believe we'd be in Europe still. Thankfully he fucked off Ballerina and a few others that cost us time and time again. The keeper situation is an excellent position to be in too and many of us had reservations there so he deserves credit for that too
The biggest two issues for me now is the lack of a centre forward who can hold the ball up - barring Lacazette (who he inexplicably mistrusted until Auba gave him no choice) - and the lack of an obvious dominant CDM partnership. In my book Partey is even worse than Clubfoot Clive; a lazy arsed, lumbering liability who has undoubtedly been Arteta's worst signing. After 18 months there are no excuses not to be at the pace of this league, but he clearly isn't and I think the pairing of him and Clive will cost us when we play the big games. Elneny has the obvious limitations we've known about for years and Lokonga will be one for a couple of years time but in big games (like at Anfield) he will be found wanting. We'll get away with those limitations against the lesser lights but its one of the most important positions on the field when you're playing City, the Mickeys or the Chavs and I just see them getting swamped......and as a result consistently getting rimmed against those sides. Even against bang average United and Everton, a little bit of pressure on that midfield and it crumbles in an instant
People draw comparisons between this team and GG's early team that went on and won the league with a hardcore of young players......but that young team wouldn't have won what they did without experience in the form of O'Leary, Richardson, Marwood, Smith etc. I look at the body language of our team when they go behind in away games and it speaks volumes - lack of leadership. Our captain summed it all up really
Will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next few weeks.
I'm afraid those absolutely pathetic away defeats at Everton, Man Ure and the Mickeys are still very recent in my mind, and the world's least surprising four game unbeaten run against pathetic Southampton, Leeds, Sunderland and an injury ravaged West Ham (three at home) haven't erased that from my mind.
We won't lose to Norwich or Wolves, which will have all the 'top four' talk spiralling out of control.
We've then got City, two legs against Liverpool Academy with Forest sandwiched in between before a trip to the swamp. Seven games in 22 days and there will undoubtedly be some rotation along the way. If we play stiffs in the two cups and get rolled over by Liverpool U-18s and Forest, in this so called top four challenge, I for one will be absolutely seething.
If he manages to come through January still occupying fourth and in the hunt for the two domestic cups, I'll be the first to say that I'll be starting to think differently and will allow myself to hope.
You will be surprised to hear I am on the fence about Arteta now Steve. He's made some huge errors in team selection in recent weeks, and should have been toast months ago if we are honest.
I hope he is resting ESR rather than deciding Ode is his preferred number 10. I get a feeling that despite being very good over the last few weeks Ode will get found out vs the bigger sides.
In saying that if he finishes top 6 this season, he isn't going anywhere and we should back him. If we have another good summer in the transfer market we will have a competitive squad for the first time in years.
I am pleased Martinelli is back and firing though, it took Auba being Auba to get a look in again though.
Odergaard is no mug thats for sure, neat and tidy technically sound and a good passer of the ball..when allowed the freedom
from what we have seen previously against a team pressing high and allowing no time to get his head up on the ball he tends to just disappear
As above i think arteta prefers Odergaard as No 10...time will tell
On reflection it's clear that he prefers Ode as number 10, I am not disputing that. But for me vs a pressing side, ESR is by far the better option on the break. And when ESR plays in the same side as Ode it's always in a sub-optimal position on the left.
Despite this, ESR has learned that playing in more narrow channels creates goal-scoring opportunities when the team is attacking on the opposite flank. You cannot underestimate this.
100% we play our best fluent football with ESR linking with Saka....the range of passing, and awareness of whats around him....passing and moving top quality
Hes a terrific talent...just hope arteta handles him better than Saliba, Auba and Martinelli
ESR is the better all round player as compared to Odegaard and if it was a choice between them, I'd start ESR every week. But to be fair to the Norwegian, he has been playing well and producing the numbers in terms of goals and assists. I really like Odegaard as a player but he can get bullied occasionally when teams are pressing him and is a bit suspect defensively. He needs to bulk up a bit as well. Ultimately it boils down to results though, if Arteta is getting results playing Odegaard, I don't have a problem. It's a luxury to have 2 excellent young players challenging for a position.
A lot of people are lambasting Arteta for holding back Martinelli but a case can be made that Martinelli's resurgence is a result of work done on the training ground by Arteta and the coaching team. He looks a different beast as compared to the start of the season. Hearing Arteta talk about Martinelli doesn't give me the impression that he doesn't trust or rate the player, rather it seems Arteta is looking to improve some aspects of his game which would make him the world class player that we know he is capable of being.
ESR is the better all round player as compared to Odegaard and if it was a choice between them, I'd start ESR every week. But to be fair to the Norwegian, he has been playing well and producing the numbers in terms of goals and assists. I really like Odegaard as a player but he can get bullied occasionally when teams are pressing him and is a bit suspect defensively. He needs to bulk up a bit as well. Ultimately it boils down to results though, if Arteta is getting results playing Odegaard, I don't have a problem. It's a luxury to have 2 excellent young players challenging for a position.
A lot of people are lambasting Arteta for holding back Martinelli but a case can be made that Martinelli's resurgence is a result of work done on the training ground by Arteta and the coaching team. He looks a different beast as compared to the start of the season. Hearing Arteta talk about Martinelli doesn't give me the impression that he doesn't trust or rate the player, rather it seems Arteta is looking to improve some aspects of his game which would make him the world class player that we know he is capable of being.
Maybe, think arteta being a novice has a complex and wants to show hes a no nonsense manager, maybe worried as an ex player they wil take liberties
With Martinelli think he could and should have brought him in much earlier, especially with Auba being not interested in the last 6 months
Martinelli needed the confidence of his manager to say " OK Son i have confidence in you, I will play you for the next 6 games, go and show what you can do"
Bringing him on with minutes to go (which he did several times) must have been soul destroying
On the positive side real improvement to be seen in the team...Ramsdale and Tommi both excellent...no brainer is the midfield needs sorting desperately .....even Sunderland were bossing the middle at times in that first half
We have beaten a very poor Leeds team and a third division club recently so cant get carried away....but some big games coming up lets see how they go.....
ESR is the better all round player as compared to Odegaard and if it was a choice between them, I'd start ESR every week. But to be fair to the Norwegian, he has been playing well and producing the numbers in terms of goals and assists. I really like Odegaard as a player but he can get bullied occasionally when teams are pressing him and is a bit suspect defensively. He needs to bulk up a bit as well. Ultimately it boils down to results though, if Arteta is getting results playing Odegaard, I don't have a problem. It's a luxury to have 2 excellent young players challenging for a position.
A lot of people are lambasting Arteta for holding back Martinelli but a case can be made that Martinelli's resurgence is a result of work done on the training ground by Arteta and the coaching team. He looks a different beast as compared to the start of the season. Hearing Arteta talk about Martinelli doesn't give me the impression that he doesn't trust or rate the player, rather it seems Arteta is looking to improve some aspects of his game which would make him the world class player that we know he is capable of being.
Maybe, think arteta being a novice has a complex and wants to show hes a no nonsense manager, maybe worried as an ex player they wil take liberties
With Martinelli think he could and should have brought him in much earlier, especially with Auba being not interested in the last 6 months
Martinelli needed the confidence of his manager to say " OK Son i have confidence in you, I will play you for the next 6 games, go and show what you can do"
Bringing him on with minutes to go (which he did several times) must have been soul destroying
On the positive side real improvement to be seen in the team...Ramsdale and Tommi both excellent...no brainer is the midfield needs sorting desperately .....even Sunderland were bossing the middle at times in that first half
We have beaten a very poor Leeds team and a third division club recently so cant get carried away....but some big games coming up lets see how they go.....
I don't think Martinelli was an automatic choice to replace Auba as a striker, I don't believe he has played more the couple of games as a striker since he joined. Arteta did get it wrong last season with the minutes he gave to the washed up Willian when he could have played Martinelli. The way the young players like Saka and ESR for the most part and Martinelli of late has played, I don't see any evidence of Arteta mismanaging the youth. Arteta doubters will say that these players have been good despite of the manager rather than because of him but I believe there is a middle ground and the manager and the coaching staff deserves some credit.
The only black spot for Arteta and the club in terms of youth management will be the Saliba situation. I don't have a problem with Arteta thinking he wasn't ready but the way we dithered and left the poor guy to rot in the reserves for half a season was pure negligence. I don't see Saliba having a future at the club. The relationship is broken and with just 2 years to go for his contract to expire, I don't see why Saliba will be keen on extending specially when we can't guarantee him first team football with White and Gabriel starting to gel.
Lastly Tomi and Ramsdale have turned out to be the best transfers from the summer window but imagine the abuse Arteta would have got if they turned out to be duds as these 2 were touted as Arteta signings in some circles specially Ramsdale.
My reservations about Arteta is related to the fact that I don't see a sustainable playing style even after 2 years (granted it's a different team compared to the one he inherited) , we are managing games poorly which maybe due to the most of the players being young and the experienced ones being unrealiable but the buck stops with the manager. Some of his tactics and substitutions has been questionable as well. But I am willing to give him the chance to show what he can do with this team what he has helped assemble.
ESR is the better all round player as compared to Odegaard and if it was a choice between them, I'd start ESR every week. But to be fair to the Norwegian, he has been playing well and producing the numbers in terms of goals and assists. I really like Odegaard as a player but he can get bullied occasionally when teams are pressing him and is a bit suspect defensively. He needs to bulk up a bit as well. Ultimately it boils down to results though, if Arteta is getting results playing Odegaard, I don't have a problem. It's a luxury to have 2 excellent young players challenging for a position.
A lot of people are lambasting Arteta for holding back Martinelli but a case can be made that Martinelli's resurgence is a result of work done on the training ground by Arteta and the coaching team. He looks a different beast as compared to the start of the season. Hearing Arteta talk about Martinelli doesn't give me the impression that he doesn't trust or rate the player, rather it seems Arteta is looking to improve some aspects of his game which would make him the world class player that we know he is capable of being.
Maybe, think arteta being a novice has a complex and wants to show hes a no nonsense manager, maybe worried as an ex player they wil take liberties
With Martinelli think he could and should have brought him in much earlier, especially with Auba being not interested in the last 6 months
Martinelli needed the confidence of his manager to say " OK Son i have confidence in you, I will play you for the next 6 games, go and show what you can do"
Bringing him on with minutes to go (which he did several times) must have been soul destroying
On the positive side real improvement to be seen in the team...Ramsdale and Tommi both excellent...no brainer is the midfield needs sorting desperately .....even Sunderland were bossing the middle at times in that first half
We have beaten a very poor Leeds team and a third division club recently so cant get carried away....but some big games coming up lets see how they go.....
I don't think Martinelli was an automatic choice to replace Auba as a striker, I don't believe he has played more the couple of games as a striker since he joined. Arteta did get it wrong last season with the minutes he gave to the washed up Willian when he could have played Martinelli. The way the young players like Saka and ESR for the most part and Martinelli of late has played, I don't see any evidence of Arteta mismanaging the youth. Arteta doubters will say that these players have been good despite of the manager rather than because of him but I believe there is a middle ground and the manager and the coaching staff deserves some credit.
The only black spot for Arteta and the club in terms of youth management will be the Saliba situation. I don't have a problem with Arteta thinking he wasn't ready but the way we dithered and left the poor guy to rot in the reserves for half a season was pure negligence. I don't see Saliba having a future at the club. The relationship is broken and with just 2 years to go for his contract to expire, I don't see why Saliba will be keen on extending specially when we can't guarantee him first team football with White and Gabriel starting to gel.
Lastly Tomi and Ramsdale have turned out to be the best transfers from the summer window but imagine the abuse Arteta would have got if they turned out to be duds as these 2 were touted as Arteta signings in some circles specially Ramsdale.
My reservations about Arteta is related to the fact that I don't see a sustainable playing style even after 2 years (granted it's a different team compared to the one he inherited) , we are managing games poorly which maybe due to the most of the players being young and the experienced ones being unrealiable but the buck stops with the manager. Some of his tactics and substitutions has been questionable as well. But I am willing to give him the chance to show what he can do with this team what he has helped assemble.
Yes agree with a lot of that....cant see Saliba staying either....not convinced as yet by Ben White as a defender although he is comfortable on the ball
There are some big games on the horizon and am sue we will find out more about this current team
As much as I still dont think Arteta should have been appointed and also that he has made some questionable in game choices I feel our desperation for things to be turned around quickly overlooks exactly what Arteta represents. He is a young newly elevated Manager with no previous experience to draw on, this mean every single mistake he makes is compounded in everyone's eyes. Add to this he was left with a partially reconstructed team with way too many question marks from Wengers tenure to resolve and I can understand why even after two seasons he is still struggling to make his mark.
In all honesty I've seen the mistakes he is making happen in my work life so many times, newly promoted or recruited management trying to reinvent the wheel time and again and finally realising that there is quite often a reason 'we have always done it this way'. He has, in my opinion, more by luck than judgement put us in a decent position this season BUT he absolutely needs to keep it going both for the teams confidence but also his own. Considering how we started this season if he can get us back into Europe and especially if he somehow manages to get us into the ECL then immaterial of my personal reservations about him then he will deserve another season.
I'm not sure there will be much happening this transfer window, if anything I expect a few people to leave on loan but probably no additions unless we offload our strikers. If he is still here at the end of the season the summer transfer window will be very telling as what happens with the loanees and fringe players will point to where the clubs and owners intentions are, we will make some big losses on some players potentially and will the club be willing to bite the bullet on them
As much as I still dont think Arteta should have been appointed and also that he has made some questionable in game choices I feel our desperation for things to be turned around quickly overlooks exactly what Arteta represents. He is a young newly elevated Manager with no previous experience to draw on, this mean every single mistake he makes is compounded in everyone's eyes. Add to this he was left with a partially reconstructed team with way too many question marks from Wengers tenure to resolve and I can understand why even after two seasons he is still struggling to make his mark.
In all honesty I've seen the mistakes he is making happen in my work life so many times, newly promoted or recruited management trying to reinvent the wheel time and again and finally realising that there is quite often a reason 'we have always done it this way'. He has, in my opinion, more by luck than judgement put us in a decent position this season BUT he absolutely needs to keep it going both for the teams confidence but also his own. Considering how we started this season if he can get us back into Europe and especially if he somehow manages to get us into the ECL then immaterial of my personal reservations about him then he will deserve another season.
I'm not sure there will be much happening this transfer window, if anything I expect a few people to leave on loan but probably no additions unless we offload our strikers. If he is still here at the end of the season the summer transfer window will be very telling as what happens with the loanees and fringe players will point to where the clubs and owners intentions are, we will make some big losses on some players potentially and will the club be willing to bite the bullet on them
Yes agree with most of above...hes a novice manager starting at a giant club like the Arsenal, trying desperately to prove himself...he has made bad mistakes notably, persisting with that wanker willian, not giving game time to Martinelli earlier..and of course rating xhaka....dubious decision making during the game
Still not convinced by Ben White as a defender time will tell on that one, but made some other great signings...
Tough games coming up will then be able to gauge the improvement....be interesting to see how effective Odergaard is against City/scouse and scum...one things for sure he wont get the acres of freedom he had against leeds, sunderland and norwich
How will our midfield cope with the tests to come
According to The Athletic, Manchester City are keeping tabs on Mikel Arteta's contract situation at #Arsenal as the dugout at the Etihad Stadium could become vacant in 2023 as well. https://t.co/HNl5DKYrHj
According to The Athletic, Manchester City are keeping tabs on Mikel Arteta's contract situation at #Arsenal as the dugout at the Etihad Stadium could become vacant in 2023 as well. https://t.co/HNl5DKYrHj
Oh noooooo, please don’t. How ‘horrible’ that would be. I beg you…..please do(n’t).
Martinelli should play down the middle and that way ESR, Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard can all play in their natural positions. Martinelli is a centre forward. Henry was a winger before Wenger played him down the middle, RVP too. This should be the long term plan. If Martinelli is good enough to keep ESR out the team, he is good enough to be the number 9 ahead of Lacazette. I like Lacazette, I think he is a decent forward and worthy elder statesmen in such a young team. But of the 4 players I mentioned, Lacazette is not that in their quality.
As for Arteta. Surely he must realise the shortcomings are in midfield. Partey is worthy of keeping his place given his resurgence of form, but that leaves one starting position that must be filled.
Although as far as the first team goes, Arteta should be thinking
Ramsdale
Tomiyasu, White, Gabriel, Tierney
Partey new signing
Saka Odegaard ESR
Martinelli
Our GK our backline and front 4 - these players maturing and developing is out best pathway to success. Its not making new signings. New signings are needed to supplement the players already at the club & to add greater depth, but we are not in a position like Man United where we need wholesale changes and a culture change. I am not obsessed about signings for the first team bar replacing Xhaka. I will be pissed off big time if we sign Coutinho. I do not want him at all. its short sighted & going after the low hanging fruit. We should be reinforcing the midfield area and not adding 29 y
We had our great transfer window, we put the time in playing Saka and ESR at such young ages. We have a potential world beater in Martinelli, So play them and let the process play out. No tinkering with the first team apart form the obvious.
We are not a million miles away from having a great team capable of competing for the league. It could actually happen as near as next season. But Arteta needs to go for it.
Martinelli should play down the middle and that way ESR, Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard can all play in their natural positions. Martinelli is a centre forward. Henry was a winger before Wenger played him down the middle, RVP too. This should be the long term plan. If Martinelli is good enough to keep ESR out the team, he is good enough to be the number 9 ahead of Lacazette. I like Lacazette, I think he is a decent forward and worthy elder statesmen in such a young team. But of the 4 players I mentioned, Lacazette is not that in their quality.
Agree with a lot of your post but don’t think we should be playing martinelli down the middle. The way we set up currently definitely benefits from a hold up player.
Agree with some of the comments and names in the transfer thread. Will be interesting to see who we add, more likely in the summer I guess, particularly if laca and aubameyang both leave
Martinelli should play down the middle and that way ESR, Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard can all play in their natural positions. Martinelli is a centre forward. Henry was a winger before Wenger played him down the middle, RVP too. This should be the long term plan. If Martinelli is good enough to keep ESR out the team, he is good enough to be the number 9 ahead of Lacazette. I like Lacazette, I think he is a decent forward and worthy elder statesmen in such a young team. But of the 4 players I mentioned, Lacazette is not that in their quality.
Agree with a lot of your post but don’t think we should be playing martinelli down the middle. The way we set up currently definitely benefits from a hold up player.
Agree with some of the comments and names in the transfer thread. Will be interesting to see who we add, more likely in the summer I guess, particularly if laca and aubameyang both leave
Same , agree with all apart from Gabi, what we need is replace xhaka and add some depth in midfield and a back up to Tommy then filter in some youngsters.
I see Chambers and Mari are up for sale , Cedric will go even we get another back up which is on the list with a midfielder this January apparently.
Our boss has to make a couple of bold decisions concerning our loanees. I understand AMN wanting to go on loan but he would've been key to cover midfield and RB, especially for cup games. He might have to welcome back a couple of them, putting past misdemeanors aside.
If he doesn't sign a centre forward in this window it will be another season without European football
Naive in the extreme, typified by the least surprising tame defeat in the world today
How he can't see something so basic and fundamentally wrong with the set up of the team is beyond me. If he was going to make a first half sub it should have been Laca on....instead he changes the left back!
