Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[Redarmy]

If he was doing what he is doing now at another club, we would be asking why cant we have a manager like Mikel Arteta.

My initial opposition to him was I thought he would be a soft touch & would have been a yes man thankful for the job. But he is no soft touch, and clearly has ambitions that have been higher than what the club has previously had (Arteta wants to win the league with Arsenal). He is a diamond of a manager. He really is going to be one of the world's leading managers in the future.

He is a proper manager who knows his football. A tactician and coach, motivator, scout. Guy excels in so many areas. I honestly can't believe the job he has done.

Mate you really do jump the gun don't you ffs?

He's proven none of that yet. He's had a good run of results and he got rid of a few malcontents that had no motivation to play for us and were happy to be paid to leave. He's also inherited three of the PL's best young talents in a generation. If you look at the career of nearly every manager there's been you'll see a similar period of success. He may go on to be all those hyperbolic things you've called him but he certainly isn't them yet.

The elephant in the room that everyone seems to want to avoid is the state of the top six in the PL. Mousers*, mancs, chavs and scum are all going through a terrible period of form this season, and without being churlish, that has to be taken under consideration when looking at our current run.

Things change quickly in football. Remember your hysterical love-in with Bellend? Couldn't be dropped? Best full back in the world? Extending his contract was our top priority? Remember that? Remember how that turned out?

I'm not knocking Martinez-Lite here. He's done well. But let's not get carried away.

United, Liverpool Spurs and Chelsea performances have nothing to do with why we are top. We have 34 points from of 39. If we were top with 20 points and most other teams have fallen ever, fair enough. But 11W 1D 1L is elite

Agreed we have well exceeded expectations, it is a remarkable turnaround, no doubt about it, and for that Arteta must take huge credit
Won 11 games and playing probably best football of any team in the premier
How the rest of the season will fare, who knows, definetly did not like what i saw at Southampton in that second half, to be honest they was well on top, but teams can have off days and we played the previous Thursday.
I think we can stay up there challenging, still have ESR to return who is quality, confidence is high and we have some hugely talented players, BIG worry is injuries....if Martinelli, Jesus, Saliba or Saka gets a long term injury we are fucked...City of course will hardly be affected in the same scenario

We need a decent DM who will fill in for Partey when he's injured or if all the shenanigans that kicked off in the summer come home to roost, although its gone all quiet on that front hasn't it. And he's playing more like a man possessed than condemned IMO.

With regards to Jesus, I would be up for paying top wedge for Mudryk who can play right across the front line. He might not be an out-and-out striker, but him Saka and Martinelli in a side that's without Jesus would be pretty tasty as a front line.

Yes, good point forgot about Partey hes another one we would be fucked without...hes playing great at the moment
Basically he needs to strengthen the squad in the next window and maybe let a few go....so many of our reserve players not good enough to step in without seriously weakening the team

[Gunnerz4life]

When you are on 34 points from a possible 39 and top of the league above what many consider the best team in Europe with the best striker in the world who has been flying, you are showing form of title contenders. There is no elephant in the room because what others are doing becomes immaterial when you are showing the form that we have. In any case Victims are the only ones who have dropped massively, the rest have huffed and puffed in the league for a few years now.

And yet all managed to finish above us only last season.

This is the stuff certain types of Arsenal fans get ridiculed about, this blinkered narrow view that can't admit when we are lucky, or when circumstances aid us. It's absolutely ridiculous to discount the start to the season that those teams have had. It takes nothing away from our achievement of playing well and winning games by admitting the reality of the circumstances that have also benefited us.

Yes they have managed to finish above us because we were as sh*t and worse. So what? This is a new season and we are top of the league.

Achievements in team sports is always relative. The Chavs and then City and the Victims have won league titles not only because they have got better but also because the Mancs and us had been on a gradual decline. The big 4 have become big 6 because some of the traditional heavyweights have got worse. We have been hammered by the Victims and City in recent years not only because they have been good but also because they have faced poor Arsenal teams littered with average players.

We are where we are on merit and we have been so good that City aside we don't need to be looking over our shoulders. With the exception of the Victims, none of the other teams have even come close to reaching our points total after 13 games in recent years.

Luck has f*ck all to do with what Arteta and the team has done thus far this season. Its like you are forced to praise Arteta so you add an element of luck .

I was trying to have a conversation with you but that last bit is an idiotic comment. If you can't raise your contribution past that level what's the point? I'm not forced to do anything. By anyone. The team are doing well. I still don't believe yet that he is the right man for the job. We'll see come May and then the following May. A good run in the first half of a season where all the other top teams are struggling with form and personnel issues is just that, a good run.

Hariously though, in your post you actually just confirmed exactly what I said. The position we are in is influenced by the teams around us, or is that only the case when we are the team that's not doing well? Can you see the hypocrisy of that argument?

There is no hypocrisy. Relative success is the norm in competitive sports, it is pointless to call it out and it has nothing to do with luck. You will not find victims and city fans undermining their success saying that the other teams in the league were dogsh*t.

Adding silly caveats to the resounding start that we have made is something i expect of a scum fan. First it was that we haven’t played anyone decent, then that we beat a weak victims team conveniently ignoring that they were the closest to completing a quad than any other team in history barely months ago and have turned over City and now that our points tally is aided by our competitors being poor. I am glad that the elephant is visible to you because it is not to most fans I know and they are no Arteta lovers. There were a few elephants in the room last season that contributed to us missing top 4 but obviously they are to be ignored as they don’t fit the agenda.

Lastly, if it is a proper conversation that you seek it would be a good idea to not post garbage like fans getting ridiculed for basically being positive and upbeat. Ridiculed by who exactly? There is always a case to be made that your views are blinkered based on your opinion about Arteta.

[StuartL]

When you are on 34 points from a possible 39 and top of the league above what many consider the best team in Europe with the best striker in the world who has been flying, you are showing form of title contenders. There is no elephant in the room because what others are doing becomes immaterial when you are showing the form that we have. In any case Victims are the only ones who have dropped massively, the rest have huffed and puffed in the league for a few years now.

And yet all managed to finish above us only last season.

This is the stuff certain types of Arsenal fans get ridiculed about, this blinkered narrow view that can't admit when we are lucky, or when circumstances aid us. It's absolutely ridiculous to discount the start to the season that those teams have had. It takes nothing away from our achievement of playing well and winning games by admitting the reality of the circumstances that have also benefited us.

Yes they have managed to finish above us because we were as sh*t and worse. So what? This is a new season and we are top of the league.

Achievements in team sports is always relative. The Chavs and then City and the Victims have won league titles not only because they have got better but also because the Mancs and us had been on a gradual decline. The big 4 have become big 6 because some of the traditional heavyweights have got worse. We have been hammered by the Victims and City in recent years not only because they have been good but also because they have faced poor Arsenal teams littered with average players.

We are where we are on merit and we have been so good that City aside we don't need to be looking over our shoulders. With the exception of the Victims, none of the other teams have even come close to reaching our points total after 13 games in recent years.

Luck has f*ck all to do with what Arteta and the team has done thus far this season. Its like you are forced to praise Arteta so you add an element of luck .

I was trying to have a conversation with you but that last bit is an idiotic comment. If you can't raise your contribution past that level what's the point? I'm not forced to do anything. By anyone. The team are doing well. I still don't believe yet that he is the right man for the job. We'll see come May and then the following May. A good run in the first half of a season where all the other top teams are struggling with form and personnel issues is just that, a good run.

Hariously though, in your post you actually just confirmed exactly what I said. The position we are in is influenced by the teams around us, or is that only the case when we are the team that's not doing well? Can you see the hypocrisy of that argument?

There is no hypocrisy. Relative success is the norm in competitive sports, it is pointless to call it out and it has nothing to do with luck. You will not find victims and city fans undermining their success saying that the other teams in the league were dogsh*t.

Adding silly caveats to the resounding start that we have made is something i expect of a scum fan. First it was that we haven’t played anyone decent, then that we beat a weak victims team conveniently ignoring that they were the closest to completing a quad than any other team in history barely months ago and have turned over City and now that our points tally is aided by our competitors being poor. I am glad that the elephant is visible to you because it is not to most fans I know and they are no Arteta lovers. There were a few elephants in the room last season that contributed to us missing top 4 but obviously they are to be ignored as they don’t fit the agenda.

Lastly, if it is a proper conversation that you seek it would be a good idea to not post garbage like fans getting ridiculed for basically being positive and upbeat. Ridiculed by who exactly? There is always a case to be made that your views are blinkered based on your opinion about Arteta.

Not wanting to get in the middle of you guys’ cock swinging session but this season has proved, more so than any other, that any team in the Premier league can beat another on their day.

Forest beat Liverpool - by all accounts deservedly
We drew with Southampton and were under the cosh 2nd half, as we were v Leeds
Villa, drew with City, while little old Fulham were desperately unlucky to lose there recently.

Liverpool have drawn with Fulham and Palace yet beat City and the scum

We have been remarkably consistent, have dominated the vast majority of matches, but not maybe had the score line reflect our superiority, so a 1-0 will always be an unconvincing victory.

We are top of the pile on merit, currently, down to winning so many of our matches - nothing to do with other teams.
We have won most matches, have kept the most clean sheets and have the equal best defence, having scored in every match, which is something no other team has done.

Whether we can stay there is a different story, but we deserve to be where we are right now.

[DB10GOONER]

When you are on 34 points from a possible 39 and top of the league above what many consider the best team in Europe with the best striker in the world who has been flying, you are showing form of title contenders. There is no elephant in the room because what others are doing becomes immaterial when you are showing the form that we have. In any case Victims are the only ones who have dropped massively, the rest have huffed and puffed in the league for a few years now.

And yet all managed to finish above us only last season.

This is the stuff certain types of Arsenal fans get ridiculed about, this blinkered narrow view that can't admit when we are lucky, or when circumstances aid us. It's absolutely ridiculous to discount the start to the season that those teams have had. It takes nothing away from our achievement of playing well and winning games by admitting the reality of the circumstances that have also benefited us.

Yes they have managed to finish above us because we were as sh*t and worse. So what? This is a new season and we are top of the league.

Achievements in team sports is always relative. The Chavs and then City and the Victims have won league titles not only because they have got better but also because the Mancs and us had been on a gradual decline. The big 4 have become big 6 because some of the traditional heavyweights have got worse. We have been hammered by the Victims and City in recent years not only because they have been good but also because they have faced poor Arsenal teams littered with average players.

We are where we are on merit and we have been so good that City aside we don't need to be looking over our shoulders. With the exception of the Victims, none of the other teams have even come close to reaching our points total after 13 games in recent years.

Luck has f*ck all to do with what Arteta and the team has done thus far this season. Its like you are forced to praise Arteta so you add an element of luck .

I was trying to have a conversation with you but that last bit is an idiotic comment. If you can't raise your contribution past that level what's the point? I'm not forced to do anything. By anyone. The team are doing well. I still don't believe yet that he is the right man for the job. We'll see come May and then the following May. A good run in the first half of a season where all the other top teams are struggling with form and personnel issues is just that, a good run.

Hariously though, in your post you actually just confirmed exactly what I said. The position we are in is influenced by the teams around us, or is that only the case when we are the team that's not doing well? Can you see the hypocrisy of that argument?

There is no hypocrisy. Relative success is the norm in competitive sports, it is pointless to call it out and it has nothing to do with luck. You will not find victims and city fans undermining their success saying that the other teams in the league were dogsh*t.

Adding silly caveats to the resounding start that we have made is something i expect of a scum fan. First it was that we haven’t played anyone decent, then that we beat a weak victims team conveniently ignoring that they were the closest to completing a quad than any other team in history barely months ago and have turned over City and now that our points tally is aided by our competitors being poor. I am glad that the elephant is visible to you because it is not to most fans I know and they are no Arteta lovers. There were a few elephants in the room last season that contributed to us missing top 4 but obviously they are to be ignored as they don’t fit the agenda.

Lastly, if it is a proper conversation that you seek it would be a good idea to not post garbage like fans getting ridiculed for basically being positive and upbeat. Ridiculed by who exactly? There is always a case to be made that your views are blinkered based on your opinion about Arteta.

Jesus I really touched a nerve there! Calm down son. It's a football forum. People won't always agree with you. Especially when all you can see is the ridiculously positive side to everything and cannot base your viewpoint in any pragmatic way. And if you want to talk about "posting garbage", you might want to read back through your "contributions" to this forum. They're not the best.

Can't be arsed going around in circles here as you clearly cannot understand the point I'm making. But I'll clarify two things.

Firstly your last comment shows you very clearly have not read most of my posts regarding Martinez-Lite. I've liked him since he was our best DM for two seasons as a player. You don't seem to be able to comprehend the difference between not blindly loving someone and having an honest opinion about one aspect of their career. But hey that's your problem, not mine.

Secondly, you ever compare me to a scum fan again, even by implicate comment, just because I've exposed your lack of knowledge about the game, and I'll ban you for trolling and personal insults. Any genuine Arsenal fan would know you don't cross that line in a serious debate or argument. I'll never ban someone for their opinion no matter how much I might disagree with it, or for telling me I'm posting "garbage", but if you lower the argument to any version of "you sound like a scum fan" then you are clearly posting to provoke a negative reaction and, in that case, off you go. Read the rules mate.

I do this job for free and - as dictated by the owners - I do not have to accept any personal insults from punters. And I won't. Banter is one thing. I'll take banter all day long. This is another thing altogether. I'm hoping you can see that.

I'm trying to be as fair and accommodating as I can be here and I'm offering you the opportunity to calm down and take a step back from the path you are on.

Might be best to leave this here now. We are getting nowhere fast. But if you really need to get the last word in, fine, whatever, go for it, but I'd recommend taking my advice on board regarding insults and abuse.

[beck]

If he was doing what he is doing now at another club, we would be asking why cant we have a manager like Mikel Arteta.

My initial opposition to him was I thought he would be a soft touch & would have been a yes man thankful for the job. But he is no soft touch, and clearly has ambitions that have been higher than what the club has previously had (Arteta wants to win the league with Arsenal). He is a diamond of a manager. He really is going to be one of the world's leading managers in the future.

He is a proper manager who knows his football. A tactician and coach, motivator, scout. Guy excels in so many areas. I honestly can't believe the job he has done.

Mate you really do jump the gun don't you ffs?

He's proven none of that yet. He's had a good run of results and he got rid of a few malcontents that had no motivation to play for us and were happy to be paid to leave. He's also inherited three of the PL's best young talents in a generation. If you look at the career of nearly every manager there's been you'll see a similar period of success. He may go on to be all those hyperbolic things you've called him but he certainly isn't them yet.

The elephant in the room that everyone seems to want to avoid is the state of the top six in the PL. Mousers*, mancs, chavs and scum are all going through a terrible period of form this season, and without being churlish, that has to be taken under consideration when looking at our current run.

Things change quickly in football. Remember your hysterical love-in with Bellend? Couldn't be dropped? Best full back in the world? Extending his contract was our top priority? Remember that? Remember how that turned out?

I'm not knocking Martinez-Lite here. He's done well. But let's not get carried away.

Spurs are having there best start in 4 years
Man Utd best start in 2
Knew it wouldn’t be long before the everyone else is shit was trotted out
When the mantra for the last 4 years is that Liverpool and city had set the best standards the league had ever seen
Very Opus Dei

[the playing mantis]

As i say im far from blinkered and can see how easily it could fall apart, but am getting more optimistic, have a couple of our more 'realistic' posters been seen of late? think one has but as the other?!! although i do appreicate when things are going well, traffic on forums is less as folk dont need to vent or let of steam to like minded souls. when things are rosy there little to debate or need to vent so traffic is lighter.

[DB10GOONER]

If he was doing what he is doing now at another club, we would be asking why cant we have a manager like Mikel Arteta.

My initial opposition to him was I thought he would be a soft touch & would have been a yes man thankful for the job. But he is no soft touch, and clearly has ambitions that have been higher than what the club has previously had (Arteta wants to win the league with Arsenal). He is a diamond of a manager. He really is going to be one of the world's leading managers in the future.

He is a proper manager who knows his football. A tactician and coach, motivator, scout. Guy excels in so many areas. I honestly can't believe the job he has done.

Mate you really do jump the gun don't you ffs?

He's proven none of that yet. He's had a good run of results and he got rid of a few malcontents that had no motivation to play for us and were happy to be paid to leave. He's also inherited three of the PL's best young talents in a generation. If you look at the career of nearly every manager there's been you'll see a similar period of success. He may go on to be all those hyperbolic things you've called him but he certainly isn't them yet.

The elephant in the room that everyone seems to want to avoid is the state of the top six in the PL. Mousers*, mancs, chavs and scum are all going through a terrible period of form this season, and without being churlish, that has to be taken under consideration when looking at our current run.

Things change quickly in football. Remember your hysterical love-in with Bellend? Couldn't be dropped? Best full back in the world? Extending his contract was our top priority? Remember that? Remember how that turned out?

I'm not knocking Martinez-Lite here. He's done well. But let's not get carried away.

Spurs are having there best start in 4 years
Man Utd best start in 2
Knew it wouldn’t be long before the everyone else is shit was trotted out
When the mantra for the last 4 years is that Liverpool and city had set the best standards the league had ever seen
Very Opus Dei

This all you have? There's a conspiracy and an agenda? I've noticed when someone shakes the blinkered schoolbag fans' tree with even a touch of pragmatism it's the old "agenda" accusation that gets rolled out. Ffs man think before you post. Do you honestly believe Arsenal fans on here want the team to fail? That's a nonsensical idea.

Citeh and victims have been the best two teams for the last two years. Victims are no longer in that category. Is that difficult to comprehend or something?

As for the scum and Manure best start mini stat? Compared to what? Their own starts over the last 4 years? Means nothing when you look at the fact they both finished ahead of us last season. But then to accept that is to ask the question you don't want to ask. If they were that poor over the last 4 years and particularly last year, why did we finish behind them? You're not implying our manager might have made a complete mess of the run in last season are you?

Literally all of this pissy whining on this thread has come out of my comment that maybe we are not an exceptional team yet and that the situations at other club's has assisted us. Some of you are carrying on like slapped schoolgirls!

I'm gonna upset a couple of you again now. Apologies in advance.

We are not the best team in the world. We are not the biggest team in the world. Martinez-Lite is not the greatest manager in the world. We have not yet won the PL this season.

All of those things may happen. But as yet they have not.

We have had a brilliant start to the season. That's all that's happened. The manager and players must take great credit for that. But until we can prove we can sustain that level for the entire season and then get close to it again next year, that's all that's happened: we've had a great start to the season.

[DB10GOONER]

As i say im far from blinkered and can see how easily it could fall apart, but am getting more optimistic, have a couple of our more 'realistic' posters been seen of late? think one has but as the other?!! although i do appreicate when things are going well, traffic on forums is less as folk dont need to vent or let of steam to like minded souls. when things are rosy there little to debate or need to vent so traffic is lighter.

To be honest I wondered that as well. But you do make a good point about the traffic on here.

This forum only really took off in popularity as it became more clear that Wenger was getting worse as a manager.

But the intention with this forum was always to be like a pub, where you could go for a moan with your mates. These newer Internet soccer fans that didn't grow up with that match / pub culture don't understand it. They see all of these online blogs and forums that perpetuate the myth of the PL and then can't comprehend when they read something realistic on here.

Typical of the snowflake generation though, they whine on about equality and inclusion but lose their shit if you disagree with them or have a different viewpoint!

The other thing with this forum is, like the fanzine that fathered it, it was never intended as a mouth piece for the club. It was here to call the club out when it needed calling out. Its always been a bit like the bastard son of the club!

I always say to new members this place might not be for you. Its not going to change to accommodate one or two people. People either adapt to the way it is or they'd be better off posting on other forums. Why waste their time on something they don't like?

Maybe we should just ban them?




*Cue some whiney cùnt complaining now.....

[Gunnerz4life]

And yet all managed to finish above us only last season.

This is the stuff certain types of Arsenal fans get ridiculed about, this blinkered narrow view that can't admit when we are lucky, or when circumstances aid us. It's absolutely ridiculous to discount the start to the season that those teams have had. It takes nothing away from our achievement of playing well and winning games by admitting the reality of the circumstances that have also benefited us.

Yes they have managed to finish above us because we were as sh*t and worse. So what? This is a new season and we are top of the league.

Achievements in team sports is always relative. The Chavs and then City and the Victims have won league titles not only because they have got better but also because the Mancs and us had been on a gradual decline. The big 4 have become big 6 because some of the traditional heavyweights have got worse. We have been hammered by the Victims and City in recent years not only because they have been good but also because they have faced poor Arsenal teams littered with average players.

We are where we are on merit and we have been so good that City aside we don't need to be looking over our shoulders. With the exception of the Victims, none of the other teams have even come close to reaching our points total after 13 games in recent years.

Luck has f*ck all to do with what Arteta and the team has done thus far this season. Its like you are forced to praise Arteta so you add an element of luck .

I was trying to have a conversation with you but that last bit is an idiotic comment. If you can't raise your contribution past that level what's the point? I'm not forced to do anything. By anyone. The team are doing well. I still don't believe yet that he is the right man for the job. We'll see come May and then the following May. A good run in the first half of a season where all the other top teams are struggling with form and personnel issues is just that, a good run.

Hariously though, in your post you actually just confirmed exactly what I said. The position we are in is influenced by the teams around us, or is that only the case when we are the team that's not doing well? Can you see the hypocrisy of that argument?

There is no hypocrisy. Relative success is the norm in competitive sports, it is pointless to call it out and it has nothing to do with luck. You will not find victims and city fans undermining their success saying that the other teams in the league were dogsh*t.

Adding silly caveats to the resounding start that we have made is something i expect of a scum fan. First it was that we haven’t played anyone decent, then that we beat a weak victims team conveniently ignoring that they were the closest to completing a quad than any other team in history barely months ago and have turned over City and now that our points tally is aided by our competitors being poor. I am glad that the elephant is visible to you because it is not to most fans I know and they are no Arteta lovers. There were a few elephants in the room last season that contributed to us missing top 4 but obviously they are to be ignored as they don’t fit the agenda.

Lastly, if it is a proper conversation that you seek it would be a good idea to not post garbage like fans getting ridiculed for basically being positive and upbeat. Ridiculed by who exactly? There is always a case to be made that your views are blinkered based on your opinion about Arteta.

Jesus I really touched a nerve there! Calm down son. It's a football forum. People won't always agree with you. Especially when all you can see is the ridiculously positive side to everything and cannot base your viewpoint in any pragmatic way. And if you want to talk about "posting garbage", you might want to read back through your "contributions" to this forum. They're not the best.

Can't be arsed going around in circles here as you clearly cannot understand the point I'm making. But I'll clarify two things.

Firstly your last comment shows you very clearly have not read most of my posts regarding Martinez-Lite. I've liked him since he was our best DM for two seasons as a player. You don't seem to be able to comprehend the difference between not blindly loving someone and having an honest opinion about one aspect of their career. But hey that's your problem, not mine.

Secondly, you ever compare me to a scum fan again, even by implicate comment, just because I've exposed your lack of knowledge about the game, and I'll ban you for trolling and personal insults. Any genuine Arsenal fan would know you don't cross that line in a serious debate or argument. I'll never ban someone for their opinion no matter how much I might disagree with it, or for telling me I'm posting "garbage", but if you lower the argument to any version of "you sound like a scum fan" then you are clearly posting to provoke a negative reaction and, in that case, off you go. Read the rules mate.

I do this job for free and - as dictated by the owners - I do not have to accept any personal insults from punters. And I won't. Banter is one thing. I'll take banter all day long. This is another thing altogether. I'm hoping you can see that.

I'm trying to be as fair and accommodating as I can be here and I'm offering you the opportunity to calm down and take a step back from the path you are on.

Might be best to leave this here now. We are getting nowhere fast. But if you really need to get the last word in, fine, whatever, go for it, but I'd recommend taking my advice on board regarding insults and abuse.

Having the last word No but seriously I’d been happy to let this go because we could do this forever and not agree and I can assure you that the opinion about each others footballing knowledge is resoundingly and unequivocally mutual . But there was obviously not only personal attacks in your response which I could ignore and a threat which I unfortunately cannot so please allow me to get a few words in.

1. This isn’t a debate about blind love and pragmatism though it’s predictable that you are interpreting it like that. This is a debate about whether the manager and the team are receiving the right recognition for what they are doing well because they have rightly been given flak for what they haven’t. Adding caveats to praise is as good as a sly dig but it’s fine if you don’t get that. I don’t care if you are an AKB ( yes I’m bringing it back ), a rose tinter, a pragmatist, a realist or a doom monger, what’s important to me is fairness and I feel obliged to response if I don’t see it.

2. Saying that I expect something from a scum fan is expressing disappointment that a fellow Gooner is doing it. If you want to interpret that to being compared to or being called a scum fan and feel insulted then that’s totally your choice. I can assure you that I know the rules.

3. A question for you. Do you really go back and check people’s ‘contributions’ to the forum during a debate? I have seen you use that same phrase a few times on other posters so was curious. In any case I can’t say I am fussed about my ‘contributions’ or feel bothered enough to reflect on them. However if their contributions is important to some people then fair enough.

4. I am not sure what you being a (the?) moderator on the forum and doing it for free had anything to do with the discussion that we were having. If you mentioned it to let me know that you have the power to ban me, then I already knew that mate. If you mentioned it to indicate that I should be be more appreciative of you then ermm I don’t know, I will consider it I guess.

I really don’t want to derail the discussion for the other posters so that this will be my last post on the matter… err or the last post on the forum in case I get banned

Peace

[DB10GOONER]

Yes they have managed to finish above us because we were as sh*t and worse. So what? This is a new season and we are top of the league.

Achievements in team sports is always relative. The Chavs and then City and the Victims have won league titles not only because they have got better but also because the Mancs and us had been on a gradual decline. The big 4 have become big 6 because some of the traditional heavyweights have got worse. We have been hammered by the Victims and City in recent years not only because they have been good but also because they have faced poor Arsenal teams littered with average players.

We are where we are on merit and we have been so good that City aside we don't need to be looking over our shoulders. With the exception of the Victims, none of the other teams have even come close to reaching our points total after 13 games in recent years.

Luck has f*ck all to do with what Arteta and the team has done thus far this season. Its like you are forced to praise Arteta so you add an element of luck .

I was trying to have a conversation with you but that last bit is an idiotic comment. If you can't raise your contribution past that level what's the point? I'm not forced to do anything. By anyone. The team are doing well. I still don't believe yet that he is the right man for the job. We'll see come May and then the following May. A good run in the first half of a season where all the other top teams are struggling with form and personnel issues is just that, a good run.

Hariously though, in your post you actually just confirmed exactly what I said. The position we are in is influenced by the teams around us, or is that only the case when we are the team that's not doing well? Can you see the hypocrisy of that argument?

There is no hypocrisy. Relative success is the norm in competitive sports, it is pointless to call it out and it has nothing to do with luck. You will not find victims and city fans undermining their success saying that the other teams in the league were dogsh*t.

Adding silly caveats to the resounding start that we have made is something i expect of a scum fan. First it was that we haven’t played anyone decent, then that we beat a weak victims team conveniently ignoring that they were the closest to completing a quad than any other team in history barely months ago and have turned over City and now that our points tally is aided by our competitors being poor. I am glad that the elephant is visible to you because it is not to most fans I know and they are no Arteta lovers. There were a few elephants in the room last season that contributed to us missing top 4 but obviously they are to be ignored as they don’t fit the agenda.

Lastly, if it is a proper conversation that you seek it would be a good idea to not post garbage like fans getting ridiculed for basically being positive and upbeat. Ridiculed by who exactly? There is always a case to be made that your views are blinkered based on your opinion about Arteta.

Jesus I really touched a nerve there! Calm down son. It's a football forum. People won't always agree with you. Especially when all you can see is the ridiculously positive side to everything and cannot base your viewpoint in any pragmatic way. And if you want to talk about "posting garbage", you might want to read back through your "contributions" to this forum. They're not the best.

Can't be arsed going around in circles here as you clearly cannot understand the point I'm making. But I'll clarify two things.

Firstly your last comment shows you very clearly have not read most of my posts regarding Martinez-Lite. I've liked him since he was our best DM for two seasons as a player. You don't seem to be able to comprehend the difference between not blindly loving someone and having an honest opinion about one aspect of their career. But hey that's your problem, not mine.

Secondly, you ever compare me to a scum fan again, even by implicate comment, just because I've exposed your lack of knowledge about the game, and I'll ban you for trolling and personal insults. Any genuine Arsenal fan would know you don't cross that line in a serious debate or argument. I'll never ban someone for their opinion no matter how much I might disagree with it, or for telling me I'm posting "garbage", but if you lower the argument to any version of "you sound like a scum fan" then you are clearly posting to provoke a negative reaction and, in that case, off you go. Read the rules mate.

I do this job for free and - as dictated by the owners - I do not have to accept any personal insults from punters. And I won't. Banter is one thing. I'll take banter all day long. This is another thing altogether. I'm hoping you can see that.

I'm trying to be as fair and accommodating as I can be here and I'm offering you the opportunity to calm down and take a step back from the path you are on.

Might be best to leave this here now. We are getting nowhere fast. But if you really need to get the last word in, fine, whatever, go for it, but I'd recommend taking my advice on board regarding insults and abuse.

Having the last word No but seriously I’d been happy to let this go because we could do this forever and not agree and I can assure you that the opinion about each others footballing knowledge is resoundingly and unequivocally mutual . But there was obviously not only personal attacks in your response which I could ignore and a threat which I unfortunately cannot so please allow me to get a few words in.

1. This isn’t a debate about blind love and pragmatism though it’s predictable that you are interpreting it like that. This is a debate about whether the manager and the team are receiving the right recognition for what they are doing well because they have rightly been given flak for what they haven’t. Adding caveats to praise is as good as a sly dig but it’s fine if you don’t get that. I don’t care if you are an AKB ( yes I’m bringing it back ), a rose tinter, a pragmatist, a realist or a doom monger, what’s important to me is fairness and I feel obliged to response if I don’t see it.

2. Saying that I expect something from a scum fan is expressing disappointment that a fellow Gooner is doing it. If you want to interpret that to being compared to or being called a scum fan and feel insulted then that’s totally your choice. I can assure you that I know the rules.

3. A question for you. Do you really go back and check people’s ‘contributions’ to the forum during a debate? I have seen you use that same phrase a few times on other posters so was curious. In any case I can’t say I am fussed about my ‘contributions’ or feel bothered enough to reflect on them. However if their contributions is important to some people then fair enough.

4. I am not sure what you being a (the?) moderator on the forum and doing it for free had anything to do with the discussion that we were having. If you mentioned it to let me know that you have the power to ban me, then I already knew that mate. If you mentioned it to indicate that I should be be more appreciative of you then ermm I don’t know, I will consider it I guess.

I really don’t want to derail the discussion for the other posters so that this will be my last post on the matter… err or the last post on the forum in case I get banned

Peace

You either don't understand what I wrote or you are deliberately just twisting the words. We both know which it is. There is no point to this anymore and I was going to leave it there but there are a few home truths you need to read, especially as you have accused me of threatening you.

There was no threat. Just a warning about your conduct. In my role as mod. Don't confuse the two. If you had compared another poster to being a scum fan during a disagreement you'd be getting the same warning regarding troll / wum behaviour.

Personally, I couldn't give a shit what you think of me as a mod or in any other capacity. You are an Internet soccer fan in India. You've never spent the decades attending actual matches like the majority of us on here have done, so forgive me if your opinion matters not a tad to me. You do not understand football culture or much of the game itself. Internet soccer blogs cannot teach that. It has to be experienced.

We make this forum welcoming to everyone but I certainly won't accept an Internet soccer fan comparing me to a scum fan as you did - and you know you did.

Oh, as for your question, no I don't go back and check people's contributions but I do have a really good memory - I remember the interesting posters and I remember the boring ones that copy half their content from soccer blogs and I especially remember the posters that were virulent AKBs living in India and stating that their most hated team was manure rather than the scum. That just says Internet soccer fan to me. I tend to remember them. I also remember posters that go missing for years on end because their beloved cult leader Arsene Wenger was getting slaughtered on here....

And, no this is not about race, before you whine about that. I have no idea what race you are and have no interest in that. But to me if you haven't put in the miles and the hours to go to games you are not a proper Gooner, just a soccer fan.

I won't ban you unless you keep up the wum / troll posting to provoke a reaction. Otherwise feel free to post away.

[the playing mantis]

Get a room you to and find out if Augie is OK whilst your at it!

Getting concerned!

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

Get a room you to and find out if Augie is OK whilst your at it!

Getting concerned!

He will be on if we lose two or three in a row

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

I was trying to have a conversation with you but that last bit is an idiotic comment. If you can't raise your contribution past that level what's the point? I'm not forced to do anything. By anyone. The team are doing well. I still don't believe yet that he is the right man for the job. We'll see come May and then the following May. A good run in the first half of a season where all the other top teams are struggling with form and personnel issues is just that, a good run.

Hariously though, in your post you actually just confirmed exactly what I said. The position we are in is influenced by the teams around us, or is that only the case when we are the team that's not doing well? Can you see the hypocrisy of that argument?

There is no hypocrisy. Relative success is the norm in competitive sports, it is pointless to call it out and it has nothing to do with luck. You will not find victims and city fans undermining their success saying that the other teams in the league were dogsh*t.

Adding silly caveats to the resounding start that we have made is something i expect of a scum fan. First it was that we haven’t played anyone decent, then that we beat a weak victims team conveniently ignoring that they were the closest to completing a quad than any other team in history barely months ago and have turned over City and now that our points tally is aided by our competitors being poor. I am glad that the elephant is visible to you because it is not to most fans I know and they are no Arteta lovers. There were a few elephants in the room last season that contributed to us missing top 4 but obviously they are to be ignored as they don’t fit the agenda.

Lastly, if it is a proper conversation that you seek it would be a good idea to not post garbage like fans getting ridiculed for basically being positive and upbeat. Ridiculed by who exactly? There is always a case to be made that your views are blinkered based on your opinion about Arteta.

Jesus I really touched a nerve there! Calm down son. It's a football forum. People won't always agree with you. Especially when all you can see is the ridiculously positive side to everything and cannot base your viewpoint in any pragmatic way. And if you want to talk about "posting garbage", you might want to read back through your "contributions" to this forum. They're not the best.

Can't be arsed going around in circles here as you clearly cannot understand the point I'm making. But I'll clarify two things.

Firstly your last comment shows you very clearly have not read most of my posts regarding Martinez-Lite. I've liked him since he was our best DM for two seasons as a player. You don't seem to be able to comprehend the difference between not blindly loving someone and having an honest opinion about one aspect of their career. But hey that's your problem, not mine.

Secondly, you ever compare me to a scum fan again, even by implicate comment, just because I've exposed your lack of knowledge about the game, and I'll ban you for trolling and personal insults. Any genuine Arsenal fan would know you don't cross that line in a serious debate or argument. I'll never ban someone for their opinion no matter how much I might disagree with it, or for telling me I'm posting "garbage", but if you lower the argument to any version of "you sound like a scum fan" then you are clearly posting to provoke a negative reaction and, in that case, off you go. Read the rules mate.

I do this job for free and - as dictated by the owners - I do not have to accept any personal insults from punters. And I won't. Banter is one thing. I'll take banter all day long. This is another thing altogether. I'm hoping you can see that.

I'm trying to be as fair and accommodating as I can be here and I'm offering you the opportunity to calm down and take a step back from the path you are on.

Might be best to leave this here now. We are getting nowhere fast. But if you really need to get the last word in, fine, whatever, go for it, but I'd recommend taking my advice on board regarding insults and abuse.

Having the last word No but seriously I’d been happy to let this go because we could do this forever and not agree and I can assure you that the opinion about each others footballing knowledge is resoundingly and unequivocally mutual . But there was obviously not only personal attacks in your response which I could ignore and a threat which I unfortunately cannot so please allow me to get a few words in.

1. This isn’t a debate about blind love and pragmatism though it’s predictable that you are interpreting it like that. This is a debate about whether the manager and the team are receiving the right recognition for what they are doing well because they have rightly been given flak for what they haven’t. Adding caveats to praise is as good as a sly dig but it’s fine if you don’t get that. I don’t care if you are an AKB ( yes I’m bringing it back ), a rose tinter, a pragmatist, a realist or a doom monger, what’s important to me is fairness and I feel obliged to response if I don’t see it.

2. Saying that I expect something from a scum fan is expressing disappointment that a fellow Gooner is doing it. If you want to interpret that to being compared to or being called a scum fan and feel insulted then that’s totally your choice. I can assure you that I know the rules.

3. A question for you. Do you really go back and check people’s ‘contributions’ to the forum during a debate? I have seen you use that same phrase a few times on other posters so was curious. In any case I can’t say I am fussed about my ‘contributions’ or feel bothered enough to reflect on them. However if their contributions is important to some people then fair enough.

4. I am not sure what you being a (the?) moderator on the forum and doing it for free had anything to do with the discussion that we were having. If you mentioned it to let me know that you have the power to ban me, then I already knew that mate. If you mentioned it to indicate that I should be be more appreciative of you then ermm I don’t know, I will consider it I guess.

I really don’t want to derail the discussion for the other posters so that this will be my last post on the matter… err or the last post on the forum in case I get banned

Peace

You either don't understand what I wrote or you are deliberately just twisting the words. We both know which it is. There is no point to this anymore and I was going to leave it there but there are a few home truths you need to read, especially as you have accused me of threatening you.

There was no threat. Just a warning about your conduct. In my role as mod. Don't confuse the two. If you had compared another poster to being a scum fan during a disagreement you'd be getting the same warning regarding troll / wum behaviour.

Personally, I couldn't give a shit what you think of me as a mod or in any other capacity. You are an Internet soccer fan in India. You've never spent the decades attending actual matches like the majority of us on here have done, so forgive me if your opinion matters not a tad to me. You do not understand football culture or much of the game itself. Internet soccer blogs cannot teach that. It has to be experienced.

We make this forum welcoming to everyone but I certainly won't accept an Internet soccer fan comparing me to a scum fan as you did - and you know you did.

Oh, as for your question, no I don't go back and check people's contributions but I do have a really good memory - I remember the interesting posters and I remember the boring ones that copy half their content from soccer blogs and I especially remember the posters that were virulent AKBs living in India and stating that their most hated team was manure rather than the scum. That just says Internet soccer fan to me. I tend to remember them. I also remember posters that go missing for years on end because their beloved cult leader Arsene Wenger was getting slaughtered on here....

And, no this is not about race, before you whine about that. I have no idea what race you are and have no interest in that. But to me if you haven't put in the miles and the hours to go to games you are not a proper Gooner, just a soccer fan.

I won't ban you unless you keep up the wum / troll posting to provoke a reaction. Otherwise feel free to post away.

As a sadly missed poster once said "ooh, look at the gays fightin"

[StuartL]

There is no hypocrisy. Relative success is the norm in competitive sports, it is pointless to call it out and it has nothing to do with luck. You will not find victims and city fans undermining their success saying that the other teams in the league were dogsh*t.

Adding silly caveats to the resounding start that we have made is something i expect of a scum fan. First it was that we haven’t played anyone decent, then that we beat a weak victims team conveniently ignoring that they were the closest to completing a quad than any other team in history barely months ago and have turned over City and now that our points tally is aided by our competitors being poor. I am glad that the elephant is visible to you because it is not to most fans I know and they are no Arteta lovers. There were a few elephants in the room last season that contributed to us missing top 4 but obviously they are to be ignored as they don’t fit the agenda.

Lastly, if it is a proper conversation that you seek it would be a good idea to not post garbage like fans getting ridiculed for basically being positive and upbeat. Ridiculed by who exactly? There is always a case to be made that your views are blinkered based on your opinion about Arteta.

Jesus I really touched a nerve there! Calm down son. It's a football forum. People won't always agree with you. Especially when all you can see is the ridiculously positive side to everything and cannot base your viewpoint in any pragmatic way. And if you want to talk about "posting garbage", you might want to read back through your "contributions" to this forum. They're not the best.

Can't be arsed going around in circles here as you clearly cannot understand the point I'm making. But I'll clarify two things.

Firstly your last comment shows you very clearly have not read most of my posts regarding Martinez-Lite. I've liked him since he was our best DM for two seasons as a player. You don't seem to be able to comprehend the difference between not blindly loving someone and having an honest opinion about one aspect of their career. But hey that's your problem, not mine.

Secondly, you ever compare me to a scum fan again, even by implicate comment, just because I've exposed your lack of knowledge about the game, and I'll ban you for trolling and personal insults. Any genuine Arsenal fan would know you don't cross that line in a serious debate or argument. I'll never ban someone for their opinion no matter how much I might disagree with it, or for telling me I'm posting "garbage", but if you lower the argument to any version of "you sound like a scum fan" then you are clearly posting to provoke a negative reaction and, in that case, off you go. Read the rules mate.

I do this job for free and - as dictated by the owners - I do not have to accept any personal insults from punters. And I won't. Banter is one thing. I'll take banter all day long. This is another thing altogether. I'm hoping you can see that.

I'm trying to be as fair and accommodating as I can be here and I'm offering you the opportunity to calm down and take a step back from the path you are on.

Might be best to leave this here now. We are getting nowhere fast. But if you really need to get the last word in, fine, whatever, go for it, but I'd recommend taking my advice on board regarding insults and abuse.

Having the last word No but seriously I’d been happy to let this go because we could do this forever and not agree and I can assure you that the opinion about each others footballing knowledge is resoundingly and unequivocally mutual . But there was obviously not only personal attacks in your response which I could ignore and a threat which I unfortunately cannot so please allow me to get a few words in.

1. This isn’t a debate about blind love and pragmatism though it’s predictable that you are interpreting it like that. This is a debate about whether the manager and the team are receiving the right recognition for what they are doing well because they have rightly been given flak for what they haven’t. Adding caveats to praise is as good as a sly dig but it’s fine if you don’t get that. I don’t care if you are an AKB ( yes I’m bringing it back ), a rose tinter, a pragmatist, a realist or a doom monger, what’s important to me is fairness and I feel obliged to response if I don’t see it.

2. Saying that I expect something from a scum fan is expressing disappointment that a fellow Gooner is doing it. If you want to interpret that to being compared to or being called a scum fan and feel insulted then that’s totally your choice. I can assure you that I know the rules.

3. A question for you. Do you really go back and check people’s ‘contributions’ to the forum during a debate? I have seen you use that same phrase a few times on other posters so was curious. In any case I can’t say I am fussed about my ‘contributions’ or feel bothered enough to reflect on them. However if their contributions is important to some people then fair enough.

4. I am not sure what you being a (the?) moderator on the forum and doing it for free had anything to do with the discussion that we were having. If you mentioned it to let me know that you have the power to ban me, then I already knew that mate. If you mentioned it to indicate that I should be be more appreciative of you then ermm I don’t know, I will consider it I guess.

I really don’t want to derail the discussion for the other posters so that this will be my last post on the matter… err or the last post on the forum in case I get banned

Peace

You either don't understand what I wrote or you are deliberately just twisting the words. We both know which it is. There is no point to this anymore and I was going to leave it there but there are a few home truths you need to read, especially as you have accused me of threatening you.

There was no threat. Just a warning about your conduct. In my role as mod. Don't confuse the two. If you had compared another poster to being a scum fan during a disagreement you'd be getting the same warning regarding troll / wum behaviour.

Personally, I couldn't give a shit what you think of me as a mod or in any other capacity. You are an Internet soccer fan in India. You've never spent the decades attending actual matches like the majority of us on here have done, so forgive me if your opinion matters not a tad to me. You do not understand football culture or much of the game itself. Internet soccer blogs cannot teach that. It has to be experienced.

We make this forum welcoming to everyone but I certainly won't accept an Internet soccer fan comparing me to a scum fan as you did - and you know you did.

Oh, as for your question, no I don't go back and check people's contributions but I do have a really good memory - I remember the interesting posters and I remember the boring ones that copy half their content from soccer blogs and I especially remember the posters that were virulent AKBs living in India and stating that their most hated team was manure rather than the scum. That just says Internet soccer fan to me. I tend to remember them. I also remember posters that go missing for years on end because their beloved cult leader Arsene Wenger was getting slaughtered on here....

And, no this is not about race, before you whine about that. I have no idea what race you are and have no interest in that. But to me if you haven't put in the miles and the hours to go to games you are not a proper Gooner, just a soccer fan.

I won't ban you unless you keep up the wum / troll posting to provoke a reaction. Otherwise feel free to post away.

As a sadly missed poster once said "ooh, look at the gays getting it on "

[wilson2.0]

I just feel our current position and performances are not an accident. But rather the result of some long-term planning. We are not first by accident, but rather as a cumulation of work done by Arteta and Edu.

Another thing with Arteta, is unlike Wenger he seems like he is in a hurry. Wenger was way too passive. Letting transfer windows go by without replacing Almunia, Bendtner, Ebooue ect. But with Arteta I get the feeling players like Lokonga and Tavares will not be allowed to fester at the club when it becomes apparent they are not a fit. I can already see us going for Danilo in January and apparently we haven't given up on Teilimans. If we could add two midfielders, it shows Arteta isnt fucking around. Not willing to waste the potential in our squad and not willing to keep giving chances to Lokonga.