Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[BobbyPires7]

Not a fan of quote towers

You fucking cùnt.

How very dare you!

[Retro Gunner]

Not sure I get the hate for Arteta. Yes he’s made a boatload of tactical errors but he’s in his first managerial job. He’s 41 years of age…..

From the moment he arrived I was told with absolute certainty that he would transform the club. His persona is infectious and he builds massive confidence.

From what I can see he has identified where we blew up last season and is trying to fix it. Rice is a leader in the middle. Timber would sort us out at right back. Havertz is quality cover. Obviously we haven’t signed Rice or Timber yet but at least I can see what he’s trying to do. He looks like he’s learned to me. He also is happy for Xhaka to leave.

Just don’t get the hate. He’s improved us massively.

What is it with this contemporary, easy use of the word "hate"? It's a word that I very rarely use, because it was never a word that was bandied about easily and so matter of factly. I don't hate Arteta and I'm not sure that I've come across anyone else on here who has claimed to hate him, or even written as though they hate him.

Being critical, questioning and even doubting his ability to do the job, does not equate to hate. Personally, I thought it was a big mistake for a club of our supposed standing and ambition, to give the job to a novice. Maybe it told us all we need to know about the owners and how they view the club, because I guarantee you that City, Utd, or Liverpool would never do it, The Chavs virtually did it with Fat Frank and look how that ended up.

He may, or may not get there as a manager at the Arsenal and despite last season's better than expected performance, the jury is still out for me. He seems to have too many of his mentor Wenger's characteristics for my liking, especially his playing favourites, his preference for good boys and objection to players with some spirit and his petty vindictiveness if someone steps out of line. Above all else...and I've said this countless times on here....I simply can't have faith in a manager that is so wedded to Xhaka. I can't rate a manager that rates that bloke as a footballer.

He's got a lot to prove before I'm convinced and his transfer activity this closed season isn't inspiring me with any more belief. 60 odd million for a failed Chelsea cast-off and what's looking like a fortune on an average to ok big fish in a very small West Ham pond. Let's not forget that he's spent an awful lot of money in the last 3 years, having received serious financial backing from the owners and there are doubts about a number of his buys.

So, in my opinion, I've got plenty of things that give me cause to doubt and to even criticise Arteta for, but none of that means that I "hate" him. I'll reserve that for any very serious shit that might touch my life.

Didn’t Utd appoint Solskjaer a few years back






Just saying

He is doing something right

Most points since the invincible team

Most league goals in a premier league season

Youngest team in the league

Beat scum Home and away

Beat Chelsea Home and away

Has international players happy to sign up and play under him.

Question him by all means, his substitutions have occasionally cost us games (Utd away ) one or two players ( Vieira for sure ) have not produced and the Xhaka persistence is infuriating.

But we were 2nd, streets ahead of all bar City and I think we will run them close again next season…..

I agree he has been massively financially backed and I said at the start of the season (somewhere) that he had his own team this season and had nowhere to hide.

Fucking smart arses on this place

indeed.

Ok, Solskjaer was highly inexperienced, but not a total novice...hadn't he been at Cardiff? Anyway, I agree that a stint at Cardiff is hardly preparation for the boss seat at Utd, but they were in a mess at the time and the appointment was doomed to failure. Let's put it this way....City or Liverpool wouldn't appoint a novice!

Maybe you're right Stuart and I'm being overly harsh, but I can't shake the doubts and the Xhaka thing is probably the single biggest black mark for me. I'll go along with some of your points, but others are somewhat weak, for instance, beating the scum and the chavs home and away last season wasn't anymore than we ought to have done, given how dire they were. Delighted to have beaten them, but I can't draw major conclusions from that.

He's obviously more than earned this coming season, but this is the one on which he can truly be judged. He provided a very sound base last season, so it's now down to recruitment and how those recruits can move us to the level where we can compete properly for the PL and the CL. So far, his recruitment isn't convincing me. He must know something about Havertz that the rest of us haven't seen and he's looking to spend a king's ransom on Rice, who isn't worth those numbers imo.

As you said a year ago, this is his team and after this transfer window, that conclusion is even more emphatic. There can be no excuses whatsoever. He will have been heavily financially supported by the club and the Kroenkes have given him free rein to pursue his project. If Xhaka stays and plays (which I'm beginning to think might happen) and Havertz and / or Rice flop, then he's on thin ice.

[augie]

I cant see rice flopping, but nor can I see him being a big success - his role/gameplan (as I see it anyway) is basically a nuts and bolts type of player who isnt in the team to stand out and do spectacular things, but unless opposition players start strolling by him at their ease, I cant see him looking disasterous either. Just too much money for him to justify it imo

[Retro Gunner]

I cant see rice flopping, but nor can I see him being a big success - his role/gameplan (as I see it anyway) is basically a nuts and bolts type of player who isnt in the team to stand out and do spectacular things, but unless opposition players start strolling by him at their ease, I cant see him looking disasterous either. Just too much money for him to justify it imo

I tend to agree with that Augie and while he’s not in the least spectacular, I think even those of us that aren’t clamouring for us to buy him, do accept that he’s not a bad footballer. As you say, he just isn’t in the 100 million league and I think we need better.

All that said, I do have concerns about his ability at the very top level, especially the CL, because he’s looked a bit cart horse-ish in some international games. So, he may not exactly flop, but he might well fail to meet the expectations of many.

The one who might well flop is Havertz. He’s properly flopped at Chelsea, so I fail to see why Arteta expects anything different when he's with us. This one will be well and truly on Arteta, because the signing makes no logical sense. The best that Arteta apologists can come out with is that other players have flopped and then come good...some even draw a comparison with Dennis and Henry . All I’d say to that is that 3 years is one hell of a flop and that far more flops remain flops rather than come good. Big roll of the dice by Arteta.

[mcdowell42]

| TRANSFERS: Cazorla could make sensational Arsenal return.

: According to FourFourTwo (@FourFourTwo), Santi Cazorla could make a return to Arsenal this season as a member of Mikel Arteta’s back room staff.

: “Santi Cazorla has just left Qatari side Al-Sadd and though rumours are rife that Villarreal could well offer him a third stint at the Yellow Submarine, he may well return to the Emirates Stadium, where he spent six years.”

“Arteta is said to want Cazorla to become a member of his coaching staff.”

Cazorla is arguably one of the most naturally gifted football players to ever play for Arsenal. The fans would love to have him back in any capacity. #AFC #Cazorla #Spain

[fivetothree]

That would be great, Santi is an absolute legend love him.

[DB10GOONER]

| TRANSFERS: Cazorla could make sensational Arsenal return.

: According to FourFourTwo (@FourFourTwo), Santi Cazorla could make a return to Arsenal this season as a member of Mikel Arteta’s back room staff.

: “Santi Cazorla has just left Qatari side Al-Sadd and though rumours are rife that Villarreal could well offer him a third stint at the Yellow Submarine, he may well return to the Emirates Stadium, where he spent six years.”

“Arteta is said to want Cazorla to become a member of his coaching staff.”

Cazorla is arguably one of the most naturally gifted football players to ever play for Arsenal. The fans would love to have him back in any capacity. #AFC #Cazorla #Spain

I'd love to see Santi back at the Arsenal. Top quality player.

[DB10GOONER]

I cant see rice flopping, but nor can I see him being a big success - his role/gameplan (as I see it anyway) is basically a nuts and bolts type of player who isnt in the team to stand out and do spectacular things, but unless opposition players start strolling by him at their ease, I cant see him looking disasterous either. Just too much money for him to justify it imo

I think that's probably a fair and reasonably accurate assessment. I hope he sets the league on fire but I'm not holding my breath. If he'd come in at 30 or 40 million I'd be saying we did some great business there, but to squaff over a hundred million on a worker rather than the world class striker and CH we urgently need, takes the shine off his signing just a tad. I think he'll do a job for us, particularly in the PL, but like our bald sister marrying culchie colleague above, I have my doubts about him in the CL.

Fingers crossed he hits the ground running and has a stormer of a season.

[mcdowell42]

Understand that Steve Round has left Arsenal. He has been Arteta's assistant since his appointment in 2019. The decision has been taken by mutual agreement and announced to club staff.

[gooner265]

Not sure I get the hate for Arteta. Yes he’s made a boatload of tactical errors but he’s in his first managerial job. He’s 41 years of age…..

From the moment he arrived I was told with absolute certainty that he would transform the club. His persona is infectious and he builds massive confidence.

From what I can see he has identified where we blew up last season and is trying to fix it. Rice is a leader in the middle. Timber would sort us out at right back. Havertz is quality cover. Obviously we haven’t signed Rice or Timber yet but at least I can see what he’s trying to do. He looks like he’s learned to me. He also is happy for Xhaka to leave.

Just don’t get the hate. He’s improved us massively.

What is it with this contemporary, easy use of the word "hate"? It's a word that I very rarely use, because it was never a word that was bandied about easily and so matter of factly. I don't hate Arteta and I'm not sure that I've come across anyone else on here who has claimed to hate him, or even written as though they hate him.

Being critical, questioning and even doubting his ability to do the job, does not equate to hate. Personally, I thought it was a big mistake for a club of our supposed standing and ambition, to give the job to a novice. Maybe it told us all we need to know about the owners and how they view the club, because I guarantee you that City, Utd, or Liverpool would never do it, The Chavs virtually did it with Fat Frank and look how that ended up.

He may, or may not get there as a manager at the Arsenal and despite last season's better than expected performance, the jury is still out for me. He seems to have too many of his mentor Wenger's characteristics for my liking, especially his playing favourites, his preference for good boys and objection to players with some spirit and his petty vindictiveness if someone steps out of line. Above all else...and I've said this countless times on here....I simply can't have faith in a manager that is so wedded to Xhaka. I can't rate a manager that rates that bloke as a footballer.

He's got a lot to prove before I'm convinced and his transfer activity this closed season isn't inspiring me with any more belief. 60 odd million for a failed Chelsea cast-off and what's looking like a fortune on an average to ok big fish in a very small West Ham pond. Let's not forget that he's spent an awful lot of money in the last 3 years, having received serious financial backing from the owners and there are doubts about a number of his buys.

So, in my opinion, I've got plenty of things that give me cause to doubt and to even criticise Arteta for, but none of that means that I "hate" him. I'll reserve that for any very serious shit that might touch my life.

Didn’t Utd appoint Solskjaer a few years back






Just saying

He is doing something right

Most points since the invincible team

Most league goals in a premier league season

Youngest team in the league

Beat scum Home and away

Beat Chelsea Home and away

Has international players happy to sign up and play under him.

Question him by all means, his substitutions have occasionally cost us games (Utd away ) one or two players ( Vieira for sure ) have not produced and the Xhaka persistence is infuriating.

But we were 2nd, streets ahead of all bar City and I think we will run them close again next season…..

I agree he has been massively financially backed and I said at the start of the season (somewhere) that he had his own team this season and had nowhere to hide.

Fucking smart arses on this place

indeed.

Ok, Solskjaer was highly inexperienced, but not a total novice...hadn't he been at Cardiff? Anyway, I agree that a stint at Cardiff is hardly preparation for the boss seat at Utd, but they were in a mess at the time and the appointment was doomed to failure. Let's put it this way....City or Liverpool wouldn't appoint a novice!

Maybe you're right Stuart and I'm being overly harsh, but I can't shake the doubts and the Xhaka thing is probably the single biggest black mark for me. I'll go along with some of your points, but others are somewhat weak, for instance, beating the scum and the chavs home and away last season wasn't anymore than we ought to have done, given how dire they were. Delighted to have beaten them, but I can't draw major conclusions from that.

He's obviously more than earned this coming season, but this is the one on which he can truly be judged. He provided a very sound base last season, so it's now down to recruitment and how those recruits can move us to the level where we can compete properly for the PL and the CL. So far, his recruitment isn't convincing me. He must know something about Havertz that the rest of us haven't seen and he's looking to spend a king's ransom on Rice, who isn't worth those numbers imo.

As you said a year ago, this is his team and after this transfer window, that conclusion is even more emphatic. There can be no excuses whatsoever. He will have been heavily financially supported by the club and the Kroenkes have given him free rein to pursue his project. If Xhaka stays and plays (which I'm beginning to think might happen) and Havertz and / or Rice flop, then he's on thin ice.

Stuart Pearce at City
Bob Paisley and Joe Fagan at Liverpool
Bertie Mee as well of course

Just saying

[gooner265]

Not sure I get the hate for Arteta. Yes he’s made a boatload of tactical errors but he’s in his first managerial job. He’s 41 years of age…..

From the moment he arrived I was told with absolute certainty that he would transform the club. His persona is infectious and he builds massive confidence.

From what I can see he has identified where we blew up last season and is trying to fix it. Rice is a leader in the middle. Timber would sort us out at right back. Havertz is quality cover. Obviously we haven’t signed Rice or Timber yet but at least I can see what he’s trying to do. He looks like he’s learned to me. He also is happy for Xhaka to leave.

Just don’t get the hate. He’s improved us massively.

What is it with this contemporary, easy use of the word "hate"? It's a word that I very rarely use, because it was never a word that was bandied about easily and so matter of factly. I don't hate Arteta and I'm not sure that I've come across anyone else on here who has claimed to hate him, or even written as though they hate him.

Being critical, questioning and even doubting his ability to do the job, does not equate to hate. Personally, I thought it was a big mistake for a club of our supposed standing and ambition, to give the job to a novice. Maybe it told us all we need to know about the owners and how they view the club, because I guarantee you that City, Utd, or Liverpool would never do it, The Chavs virtually did it with Fat Frank and look how that ended up.

He may, or may not get there as a manager at the Arsenal and despite last season's better than expected performance, the jury is still out for me. He seems to have too many of his mentor Wenger's characteristics for my liking, especially his playing favourites, his preference for good boys and objection to players with some spirit and his petty vindictiveness if someone steps out of line. Above all else...and I've said this countless times on here....I simply can't have faith in a manager that is so wedded to Xhaka. I can't rate a manager that rates that bloke as a footballer.

He's got a lot to prove before I'm convinced and his transfer activity this closed season isn't inspiring me with any more belief. 60 odd million for a failed Chelsea cast-off and what's looking like a fortune on an average to ok big fish in a very small West Ham pond. Let's not forget that he's spent an awful lot of money in the last 3 years, having received serious financial backing from the owners and there are doubts about a number of his buys.

So, in my opinion, I've got plenty of things that give me cause to doubt and to even criticise Arteta for, but none of that means that I "hate" him. I'll reserve that for any very serious shit that might touch my life.

There is a flip side to that if someone defends Areta too much they're called an apologist.
There is a middle ground , I just call every situation as i see it for or against but do agree hate is so overused these days as is legend.

[Retro Gunner]

Not sure I get the hate for Arteta. Yes he’s made a boatload of tactical errors but he’s in his first managerial job. He’s 41 years of age…..

From the moment he arrived I was told with absolute certainty that he would transform the club. His persona is infectious and he builds massive confidence.

From what I can see he has identified where we blew up last season and is trying to fix it. Rice is a leader in the middle. Timber would sort us out at right back. Havertz is quality cover. Obviously we haven’t signed Rice or Timber yet but at least I can see what he’s trying to do. He looks like he’s learned to me. He also is happy for Xhaka to leave.

Just don’t get the hate. He’s improved us massively.

What is it with this contemporary, easy use of the word "hate"? It's a word that I very rarely use, because it was never a word that was bandied about easily and so matter of factly. I don't hate Arteta and I'm not sure that I've come across anyone else on here who has claimed to hate him, or even written as though they hate him.

Being critical, questioning and even doubting his ability to do the job, does not equate to hate. Personally, I thought it was a big mistake for a club of our supposed standing and ambition, to give the job to a novice. Maybe it told us all we need to know about the owners and how they view the club, because I guarantee you that City, Utd, or Liverpool would never do it, The Chavs virtually did it with Fat Frank and look how that ended up.

He may, or may not get there as a manager at the Arsenal and despite last season's better than expected performance, the jury is still out for me. He seems to have too many of his mentor Wenger's characteristics for my liking, especially his playing favourites, his preference for good boys and objection to players with some spirit and his petty vindictiveness if someone steps out of line. Above all else...and I've said this countless times on here....I simply can't have faith in a manager that is so wedded to Xhaka. I can't rate a manager that rates that bloke as a footballer.

He's got a lot to prove before I'm convinced and his transfer activity this closed season isn't inspiring me with any more belief. 60 odd million for a failed Chelsea cast-off and what's looking like a fortune on an average to ok big fish in a very small West Ham pond. Let's not forget that he's spent an awful lot of money in the last 3 years, having received serious financial backing from the owners and there are doubts about a number of his buys.

So, in my opinion, I've got plenty of things that give me cause to doubt and to even criticise Arteta for, but none of that means that I "hate" him. I'll reserve that for any very serious shit that might touch my life.

There is a flip side to that if someone defends Areta too much they're called an apologist.
There is a middle ground , I just call every situation as i see it for or against but do agree hate is so overused these days as is legend.

Well, I don't call anyone an apologist, no tend to use the word legend. However, my point was different. Using "hate" to describe fair criticism and opinion is ridiculously crass.

As to you post about appointing novices, are you serious?

Sorry mate, but did you really think I was referring to the City that were a shit relegation haunted outfit, prior to the Arabs buying them?

Also, I don't think anyone who understands football and has a knowledge of Liverpool, would call the appointment of members of the Anfield boot room conveyor belt "novices". It was a structure like no other and each one had been instrumental in the running of the team.

Nice try, but pedantry at its finest.

Just saying.

[gooner265]

Not sure I get the hate for Arteta. Yes he’s made a boatload of tactical errors but he’s in his first managerial job. He’s 41 years of age…..

From the moment he arrived I was told with absolute certainty that he would transform the club. His persona is infectious and he builds massive confidence.

From what I can see he has identified where we blew up last season and is trying to fix it. Rice is a leader in the middle. Timber would sort us out at right back. Havertz is quality cover. Obviously we haven’t signed Rice or Timber yet but at least I can see what he’s trying to do. He looks like he’s learned to me. He also is happy for Xhaka to leave.

Just don’t get the hate. He’s improved us massively.

What is it with this contemporary, easy use of the word "hate"? It's a word that I very rarely use, because it was never a word that was bandied about easily and so matter of factly. I don't hate Arteta and I'm not sure that I've come across anyone else on here who has claimed to hate him, or even written as though they hate him.

Being critical, questioning and even doubting his ability to do the job, does not equate to hate. Personally, I thought it was a big mistake for a club of our supposed standing and ambition, to give the job to a novice. Maybe it told us all we need to know about the owners and how they view the club, because I guarantee you that City, Utd, or Liverpool would never do it, The Chavs virtually did it with Fat Frank and look how that ended up.

He may, or may not get there as a manager at the Arsenal and despite last season's better than expected performance, the jury is still out for me. He seems to have too many of his mentor Wenger's characteristics for my liking, especially his playing favourites, his preference for good boys and objection to players with some spirit and his petty vindictiveness if someone steps out of line. Above all else...and I've said this countless times on here....I simply can't have faith in a manager that is so wedded to Xhaka. I can't rate a manager that rates that bloke as a footballer.

He's got a lot to prove before I'm convinced and his transfer activity this closed season isn't inspiring me with any more belief. 60 odd million for a failed Chelsea cast-off and what's looking like a fortune on an average to ok big fish in a very small West Ham pond. Let's not forget that he's spent an awful lot of money in the last 3 years, having received serious financial backing from the owners and there are doubts about a number of his buys.

So, in my opinion, I've got plenty of things that give me cause to doubt and to even criticise Arteta for, but none of that means that I "hate" him. I'll reserve that for any very serious shit that might touch my life.

There is a flip side to that if someone defends Areta too much they're called an apologist.
There is a middle ground , I just call every situation as i see it for or against but do agree hate is so overused these days as is legend.

Well, I don't call anyone an apologist, no tend to use the word legend. However, my point was different. Using "hate" to describe fair criticism and opinion is ridiculously crass.

As to you post about appointing novices, are you serious?

Sorry mate, but did you really think I was referring to the City that were a shit relegation haunted outfit, prior to the Arabs buying them?

Also, I don't think anyone who understands football and has a knowledge of Liverpool, would call the appointment of members of the Anfield boot room conveyor belt "novices". It was a structure like no other and each one had been instrumental in the running of the team.

Nice try, but pedantry at its finest.

Just saying.

No I wasn't serious hence the emoji

[Retro Gunner]

Not sure I get the hate for Arteta. Yes he’s made a boatload of tactical errors but he’s in his first managerial job. He’s 41 years of age…..

From the moment he arrived I was told with absolute certainty that he would transform the club. His persona is infectious and he builds massive confidence.

From what I can see he has identified where we blew up last season and is trying to fix it. Rice is a leader in the middle. Timber would sort us out at right back. Havertz is quality cover. Obviously we haven’t signed Rice or Timber yet but at least I can see what he’s trying to do. He looks like he’s learned to me. He also is happy for Xhaka to leave.

Just don’t get the hate. He’s improved us massively.

What is it with this contemporary, easy use of the word "hate"? It's a word that I very rarely use, because it was never a word that was bandied about easily and so matter of factly. I don't hate Arteta and I'm not sure that I've come across anyone else on here who has claimed to hate him, or even written as though they hate him.

Being critical, questioning and even doubting his ability to do the job, does not equate to hate. Personally, I thought it was a big mistake for a club of our supposed standing and ambition, to give the job to a novice. Maybe it told us all we need to know about the owners and how they view the club, because I guarantee you that City, Utd, or Liverpool would never do it, The Chavs virtually did it with Fat Frank and look how that ended up.

He may, or may not get there as a manager at the Arsenal and despite last season's better than expected performance, the jury is still out for me. He seems to have too many of his mentor Wenger's characteristics for my liking, especially his playing favourites, his preference for good boys and objection to players with some spirit and his petty vindictiveness if someone steps out of line. Above all else...and I've said this countless times on here....I simply can't have faith in a manager that is so wedded to Xhaka. I can't rate a manager that rates that bloke as a footballer.

He's got a lot to prove before I'm convinced and his transfer activity this closed season isn't inspiring me with any more belief. 60 odd million for a failed Chelsea cast-off and what's looking like a fortune on an average to ok big fish in a very small West Ham pond. Let's not forget that he's spent an awful lot of money in the last 3 years, having received serious financial backing from the owners and there are doubts about a number of his buys.

So, in my opinion, I've got plenty of things that give me cause to doubt and to even criticise Arteta for, but none of that means that I "hate" him. I'll reserve that for any very serious shit that might touch my life.

There is a flip side to that if someone defends Areta too much they're called an apologist.
There is a middle ground , I just call every situation as i see it for or against but do agree hate is so overused these days as is legend.

Well, I don't call anyone an apologist, no tend to use the word legend. However, my point was different. Using "hate" to describe fair criticism and opinion is ridiculously crass.

As to you post about appointing novices, are you serious?

Sorry mate, but did you really think I was referring to the City that were a shit relegation haunted outfit, prior to the Arabs buying them?

Also, I don't think anyone who understands football and has a knowledge of Liverpool, would call the appointment of members of the Anfield boot room conveyor belt "novices". It was a structure like no other and each one had been instrumental in the running of the team.

Nice try, but pedantry at its finest.

Just saying.

No I wasn't serious hence the emoji

Ah, good, you had me worried for a while. I know that you like to monitor my posts and keep me honest, but I was concerned that the zealotry had overcome you.

[OneBardGooner]

| TRANSFERS: Cazorla could make sensational Arsenal return.

: According to FourFourTwo (@FourFourTwo), Santi Cazorla could make a return to Arsenal this season as a member of Mikel Arteta’s back room staff.

: “Santi Cazorla has just left Qatari side Al-Sadd and though rumours are rife that Villarreal could well offer him a third stint at the Yellow Submarine, he may well return to the Emirates Stadium, where he spent six years.”

“Arteta is said to want Cazorla to become a member of his coaching staff.”

Cazorla is arguably one of the most naturally gifted football players to ever play for Arsenal. The fans would love to have him back in any capacity. #AFC #Cazorla #Spain

Well, Steve Round left Arsenal FC today; by mutual consent, so who knows maybe there will be some kind of re-shuffle and Santi could join the coaching/management team?

I loved him as a player - Two footed and skilled beyond belief.