As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Genuine question, setting aside the current league position and improved players in certain positions, can someone please explain to me where the improved structure is?
We are still being destroyed by the top teams and we are still struggling quite often against some of the lower teams. For me there has been little to no change since Wenger was in charge. Personnel change but the outcome remains the say, improvement isnt necessarily us beating the Chavs, City or the Victims but not getting dicked by 3 or 4 goals would be.
The same goes for the lower teams it's not like we are regularly scoring 3 or 4 against them, sometimes we are grinding out 1-1 or 1-0 games, again this is quite often where we were under Wenger, except under Wenger even in later years we would smash the odd team 5-0, I cant remember the last time we did that outside a lower league cup side or crap Euro team.
Arteta unfortunately flatters to deceive, the team he is putting together is being built to challenge in future years but they are just too inexperienced currently and his managerial naivety is nowhere more apparent than the players he bought in the summer. You cannot build a team without a good levening of experience to teach the youngster and reign them in when required, even Fergies 'team of kids' had a solid core of vastly experienced players both in the team and the squad
We have improved and anyone without blinkers can see it.
The tactics and set up he’s implemented are based on the JPG concept for football. It works in many games and we are undoubtedly harder to beat in some of the tougher games and not generally shipping as many goals.
If you don’t understand our football has changed from watching (despite it being obvious ) read below for an explanation on the concept
Our win ratio under Arteta against the bigger sides is currently better than under wenger and last night was the first time united have beaten us under his management in the league and they needed us to gift them a penalty to do it.
Every once in a while it’s good to examine facts rather than unconditional hatred.
We are still missing some key players and I’m sure Arteta could do with a prime Alexis Sanchez or Van Persie however tactically despite everything being said we are well set up and organised. Our problems lie with inexperience and naivety and that is hard for the manager to affect
Genuine question, setting aside the current league position and improved players in certain positions, can someone please explain to me where the improved structure is?
We are still being destroyed by the top teams and we are still struggling quite often against some of the lower teams. For me there has been little to no change since Wenger was in charge. Personnel change but the outcome remains the say, improvement isnt necessarily us beating the Chavs, City or the Victims but not getting dicked by 3 or 4 goals would be.
The same goes for the lower teams it's not like we are regularly scoring 3 or 4 against them, sometimes we are grinding out 1-1 or 1-0 games, again this is quite often where we were under Wenger, except under Wenger even in later years we would smash the odd team 5-0, I cant remember the last time we did that outside a lower league cup side or crap Euro team.
Arteta unfortunately flatters to deceive, the team he is putting together is being built to challenge in future years but they are just too inexperienced currently and his managerial naivety is nowhere more apparent than the players he bought in the summer. You cannot build a team without a good levening of experience to teach the youngster and reign them in when required, even Fergies 'team of kids' had a solid core of vastly experienced players both in the team and the squad
He has been given more to spend than both of the previous managers and has taken us backwards. Even Wenger at his worst got us comfortably into the Europa League, as did Emery. Both of those managers whilst having tactical deficiencies played better football. The football under Arteta has been awful from day one and two performances in the cup against City and the Chavs saved his bacon (and haven't been seen again since)
As you say we are no further on against the top four - played 4 lost 4 scored 2 conceded 14. The excuse at the start of the season against City and the Chavs was that we were missing key players.....so what was it against the worst Man Ure side in 30 odd years and against the Mickey Mousers? We've barely been so injury free for decades.....
A minus goal difference again! That was barely heard of before. Apparently his training sessions are over orchestrated and frequently stopped.....and it shows. Players going forward play with hesitancy and despite having Saka, Smith Rowe, Martinelli, Lacazette and Auba we are amongst the lowest scorers in the league. Tell me anyone outside the top 5 or 6 clubs that wouldn't want that lot
Only in the final season of GG and in the Don Howe days can I remember such awful football. 100+ games, absolutely no identity, no more competitive against the big clubs, 160m spent in one window. Where does it end ?
Were 5th, how much better than that in the league should we be fairing then ? 2nd . Third ..? With this squad ?
Genuine question, setting aside the current league position and improved players in certain positions, can someone please explain to me where the improved structure is?
We are still being destroyed by the top teams and we are still struggling quite often against some of the lower teams. For me there has been little to no change since Wenger was in charge. Personnel change but the outcome remains the say, improvement isnt necessarily us beating the Chavs, City or the Victims but not getting dicked by 3 or 4 goals would be.
The same goes for the lower teams it's not like we are regularly scoring 3 or 4 against them, sometimes we are grinding out 1-1 or 1-0 games, again this is quite often where we were under Wenger, except under Wenger even in later years we would smash the odd team 5-0, I cant remember the last time we did that outside a lower league cup side or crap Euro team.
Arteta unfortunately flatters to deceive, the team he is putting together is being built to challenge in future years but they are just too inexperienced currently and his managerial naivety is nowhere more apparent than the players he bought in the summer. You cannot build a team without a good levening of experience to teach the youngster and reign them in when required, even Fergies 'team of kids' had a solid core of vastly experienced players both in the team and the squad
He has been given more to spend than both of the previous managers and has taken us backwards. Even Wenger at his worst got us comfortably into the Europa League, as did Emery. Both of those managers whilst having tactical deficiencies played better football. The football under Arteta has been awful from day one and two performances in the cup against City and the Chavs saved his bacon (and haven't been seen again since)
As you say we are no further on against the top four - played 4 lost 4 scored 2 conceded 14. The excuse at the start of the season against City and the Chavs was that we were missing key players.....so what was it against the worst Man Ure side in 30 odd years and against the Mickey Mousers? We've barely been so injury free for decades.....
A minus goal difference again! That was barely heard of before. Apparently his training sessions are over orchestrated and frequently stopped.....and it shows. Players going forward play with hesitancy and despite having Saka, Smith Rowe, Martinelli, Lacazette and Auba we are amongst the lowest scorers in the league. Tell me anyone outside the top 5 or 6 clubs that wouldn't want that lot
Only in the final season of GG and in the Don Howe days can I remember such awful football. 100+ games, absolutely no identity, no more competitive against the big clubs, 160m spent in one window. Where does it end ?
Were 5th, how much better than that in the league should we be fairing then ? 2nd . Third ..? With this squad ?
(Btw that was a complete load of guff you wrote)
Oh dear the Superfan is back from under his Mikel Arteta duvet cover
Which parts were guff then dear boy, please do enlighten us all with your infinite wisdom
The fact he's spent more in one window FACT
The fact the other managers comfortably got us into Europe FACT
The appalling stats against the big four this season FACT
The fact we have one recognised first team player unavailable through injury FACT
Minus goal difference FACT
Some of the best attacking young players in the league FACT (well the England manager would seem to think so)
As for the style of football, thats less of a fact and more a matter of opinion.....and that's mine. If you don't like it just block me and go and join Highbury JD on the superfan raft!
Genuine question, setting aside the current league position and improved players in certain positions, can someone please explain to me where the improved structure is?
We are still being destroyed by the top teams and we are still struggling quite often against some of the lower teams. For me there has been little to no change since Wenger was in charge. Personnel change but the outcome remains the say, improvement isnt necessarily us beating the Chavs, City or the Victims but not getting dicked by 3 or 4 goals would be.
The same goes for the lower teams it's not like we are regularly scoring 3 or 4 against them, sometimes we are grinding out 1-1 or 1-0 games, again this is quite often where we were under Wenger, except under Wenger even in later years we would smash the odd team 5-0, I cant remember the last time we did that outside a lower league cup side or crap Euro team.
Arteta unfortunately flatters to deceive, the team he is putting together is being built to challenge in future years but they are just too inexperienced currently and his managerial naivety is nowhere more apparent than the players he bought in the summer. You cannot build a team without a good levening of experience to teach the youngster and reign them in when required, even Fergies 'team of kids' had a solid core of vastly experienced players both in the team and the squad
He has been given more to spend than both of the previous managers and has taken us backwards. Even Wenger at his worst got us comfortably into the Europa League, as did Emery. Both of those managers whilst having tactical deficiencies played better football. The football under Arteta has been awful from day one and two performances in the cup against City and the Chavs saved his bacon (and haven't been seen again since)
As you say we are no further on against the top four - played 4 lost 4 scored 2 conceded 14. The excuse at the start of the season against City and the Chavs was that we were missing key players.....so what was it against the worst Man Ure side in 30 odd years and against the Mickey Mousers? We've barely been so injury free for decades.....
A minus goal difference again! That was barely heard of before. Apparently his training sessions are over orchestrated and frequently stopped.....and it shows. Players going forward play with hesitancy and despite having Saka, Smith Rowe, Martinelli, Lacazette and Auba we are amongst the lowest scorers in the league. Tell me anyone outside the top 5 or 6 clubs that wouldn't want that lot
Only in the final season of GG and in the Don Howe days can I remember such awful football. 100+ games, absolutely no identity, no more competitive against the big clubs, 160m spent in one window. Where does it end ?
Were 5th, how much better than that in the league should we be fairing then ? 2nd . Third ..? With this squad ?
(Btw that was a complete load of guff you wrote)
Oh dear the Superfan is back from under his Mikel Arteta duvet cover
Which parts were guff then dear boy, please do enlighten us all with your infinite wisdom
The fact he's spent more in one window FACT
The fact the other managers comfortably got us into Europe FACT
The appalling stats against the big four this season FACT
The fact we have one recognised first team player unavailable through injury FACT
Minus goal difference FACT
Some of the best attacking young players in the league FACT (well the England manager would seem to think so)
As for the style of football, thats less of a fact and more a matter of opinion.....and that's mine. If you don't like it just block me and go and join Highbury JD on the superfan raft!
No one is denying that Arteta has some problems to deal with. Yes, we have senior players stinking the place out. But why are they stinking the place out? Is it a coincidence that Partey, Auba and Pepe are consistently crap? We have no real style of play. Certainly not in the transition from midfield to attack we don’t. It is slow, turgid, sideways shite. Does that style suit Pepe or Auba? No it fucking doesn’t. As a manager surely you look at your tools and then go out and do a job that those tools can do. Arteta has the tools to be a plumber but he’s going out trying to do electrical work. Square pegs, round holes basically.
No one is denying that Arteta has some problems to deal with. Yes, we have senior players stinking the place out. But why are they stinking the place out? Is it a coincidence that Partey, Auba and Pepe are consistently crap? We have no real style of play. Certainly not in the transition from midfield to attack we don’t. It is slow, turgid, sideways shite. Does that style suit Pepe or Auba? No it fucking doesn’t. As a manager surely you look at your tools and then go out and do a job that those tools can do. Arteta has the tools to be a plumber but he’s going out trying to do electrical work. Square pegs, round holes basically.
Auba is past it. Pepe looks always to be inconsistent even under the previous manager and Partey is good but sometimes has an off game and needs a solid passing midfielder next to him.
Don’t mistake style and tactics with simply not having right the players in the middle of the park to move the ball fast enough. We haven’t got an infinite transfer budget and that’s basically the problem
We are two years and about five players away from competing for a place in the top four. We're Europa League standard and nothing more right now.
Bang on Perry - our central midfield is still non existent despite £35m on Xhaka and £50m on Partey - both are so easy for opponents to waltz around and offer very little in a creative or attacking sense.
I thought we could challenge for 4th, given how poor the rest of the league has been, I’m not so sure now.
6th would be about right, sadly
We've spent more money on not having a midlefield than any other club in the history of the game. We've only had two great midfields in the last 35 years. The Rocky, Davis, Thomas, Richardson one of 1989 and the Vieira, Petit, Parlour one of 1998. I'll chuck on Gilberto in there from later years but really, since then, we've spent a fortune and still and a huge fucking gaping whole. Having said that, it's taken us 30 years to find a decent keeper so really, by about 2050 odd, we might have a decent keeper and a decent midfield.
No one is denying that Arteta has some problems to deal with. Yes, we have senior players stinking the place out. But why are they stinking the place out? Is it a coincidence that Partey, Auba and Pepe are consistently crap? We have no real style of play. Certainly not in the transition from midfield to attack we don’t. It is slow, turgid, sideways shite. Does that style suit Pepe or Auba? No it fucking doesn’t. As a manager surely you look at your tools and then go out and do a job that those tools can do. Arteta has the tools to be a plumber but he’s going out trying to do electrical work. Square pegs, round holes basically.
Auba is past it. Pepe looks always to be inconsistent even under the previous manager and Partey is good but sometimes has an off game and needs a solid passing midfielder next to him.
Don’t mistake style and tactics with simply not having right the players in the middle of the park to move the ball fast enough. We haven’t got an infinite transfer budget and that’s basically the problem
For me Auba should have been dropped several games ago. He is offering nothing. Put Laca in and at least he holds the ball up and can lay a pass off when we are attacking with speed. I don’t disagree that Auba is past it so why is Arteta playing him every game?? Pepe is a dud agreed. Partey also needs to be dropped. Can AMN do any worse?
Arteta needs to get real. Work with what you have before we can address things in the market. Or perhaps he thinks he is making his point to Josh by flogging Auba to pieces? Either way we need a brand new strike force. I’m not convinced that Martinelli is an out and out lethal striker yet.
No one is denying that Arteta has some problems to deal with. Yes, we have senior players stinking the place out. But why are they stinking the place out? Is it a coincidence that Partey, Auba and Pepe are consistently crap? We have no real style of play. Certainly not in the transition from midfield to attack we don’t. It is slow, turgid, sideways shite. Does that style suit Pepe or Auba? No it fucking doesn’t. As a manager surely you look at your tools and then go out and do a job that those tools can do. Arteta has the tools to be a plumber but he’s going out trying to do electrical work. Square pegs, round holes basically.
Auba is past it. Pepe looks always to be inconsistent even under the previous manager and Partey is good but sometimes has an off game and needs a solid passing midfielder next to him.
Don’t mistake style and tactics with simply not having right the players in the middle of the park to move the ball fast enough. We haven’t got an infinite transfer budget and that’s basically the problem
For me Auba should have been dropped several games ago. He is offering nothing. Put Laca in and at least he holds the ball up and can lay a pass off when we are attacking with speed. I don’t disagree that Auba is past it so why is Arteta playing him every game??
I think the answer to this lies in the comments Thierry Henry made on tv after the game that it isn’t as simple as dragging off Aubameyang and expecting the goals to start flowing. Lacazette has never been as prolific and whilst being neat and tidy if you are trying to win a game from the start you need movement and finishing which Aubameyang usually brings despite his decline
Martinelli for me has never looked a striker so that’s not an option either as far as I can see
Auba is now a waste of space on the field. No point trying to point out the bleeding obvious. Age catches up with us all. He looks fucked from the kick off. Just enjoy replays of B Dortmund from years ago & see how good a player he was then. Martinelli did more in the first 5 mins of the game as the old bloke did in the rest of it. Laca is not much better.
Genuine question, setting aside the current league position and improved players in certain positions, can someone please explain to me where the improved structure is?
We are still being destroyed by the top teams and we are still struggling quite often against some of the lower teams. For me there has been little to no change since Wenger was in charge. Personnel change but the outcome remains the say, improvement isnt necessarily us beating the Chavs, City or the Victims but not getting dicked by 3 or 4 goals would be.
The same goes for the lower teams it's not like we are regularly scoring 3 or 4 against them, sometimes we are grinding out 1-1 or 1-0 games, again this is quite often where we were under Wenger, except under Wenger even in later years we would smash the odd team 5-0, I cant remember the last time we did that outside a lower league cup side or crap Euro team.
Arteta unfortunately flatters to deceive, the team he is putting together is being built to challenge in future years but they are just too inexperienced currently and his managerial naivety is nowhere more apparent than the players he bought in the summer. You cannot build a team without a good levening of experience to teach the youngster and reign them in when required, even Fergies 'team of kids' had a solid core of vastly experienced players both in the team and the squad
We have improved and anyone without blinkers can see it.
The tactics and set up he’s implemented are based on the JPG concept for football. It works in many games and we are undoubtedly harder to beat in some of the tougher games and not generally shipping as many goals.
If you don’t understand our football has changed from watching (despite it being obvious ) read below for an explanation on the concept
Our win ratio under Arteta against the bigger sides is currently better than under wenger and last night was the first time united have beaten us under his management in the league and they needed us to gift them a penalty to do it.
Every once in a while it’s good to examine facts rather than unconditional hatred.
We are still missing some key players and I’m sure Arteta could do with a prime Alexis Sanchez or Van Persie however tactically despite everything being said we are well set up and organised. Our problems lie with inexperience and naivety and that is hard for the manager to affect
No doubt these complicated football tacticans make a very good liiving out of it but football is a simple game all about the quality of the players
As Brian Clough once said
"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes."
Genuine question, setting aside the current league position and improved players in certain positions, can someone please explain to me where the improved structure is?
We are still being destroyed by the top teams and we are still struggling quite often against some of the lower teams. For me there has been little to no change since Wenger was in charge. Personnel change but the outcome remains the say, improvement isnt necessarily us beating the Chavs, City or the Victims but not getting dicked by 3 or 4 goals would be.
The same goes for the lower teams it's not like we are regularly scoring 3 or 4 against them, sometimes we are grinding out 1-1 or 1-0 games, again this is quite often where we were under Wenger, except under Wenger even in later years we would smash the odd team 5-0, I cant remember the last time we did that outside a lower league cup side or crap Euro team.
Arteta unfortunately flatters to deceive, the team he is putting together is being built to challenge in future years but they are just too inexperienced currently and his managerial naivety is nowhere more apparent than the players he bought in the summer. You cannot build a team without a good levening of experience to teach the youngster and reign them in when required, even Fergies 'team of kids' had a solid core of vastly experienced players both in the team and the squad
We have improved and anyone without blinkers can see it.
The tactics and set up he’s implemented are based on the JPG concept for football. It works in many games and we are undoubtedly harder to beat in some of the tougher games and not generally shipping as many goals.
If you don’t understand our football has changed from watching (despite it being obvious ) read below for an explanation on the concept
Our win ratio under Arteta against the bigger sides is currently better than under wenger and last night was the first time united have beaten us under his management in the league and they needed us to gift them a penalty to do it.
Every once in a while it’s good to examine facts rather than unconditional hatred.
We are still missing some key players and I’m sure Arteta could do with a prime Alexis Sanchez or Van Persie however tactically despite everything being said we are well set up and organised. Our problems lie with inexperience and naivety and that is hard for the manager to affect
No doubt these complicated football tacticans make a very good liiving out of it but football is a simple game all about the quality of the players
As Brian Clough once said
"Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes."
And I totally agree with that quote it’s not always about tactics and organisation which helps but isn’t the be all and end all.
So why are people always only ever talking about our manager in the weird most bizarre and obsessive way rather than stating the obvious which is .. we haven’t got 2 players in our squad as good as Ronaldo and Fernandes. That’s the unfortunate truth.
Supposed blinkers aside our forwards aren't scoring, now if it were one or two you could put it down to attitude, ability or similar but when they are all unable to score it is more than that.
Our tactics do not enable our strikers to score regularly it is that simple, currently most of our goals are coming from midfield or wide players.
I may not be a premier League coach but I have 25 years experience in coaching so if I can see it then so should someone being paid millions of pounds a year to spot it and resolve it
As for defence yes we have improved but week in week out we see the same brain farts, this may be down to inexperience but it has been happening all season, it also happened last season, again this is something Arteta should be recognising and stamping out but game after game it is repeated and has been costly in recent games.
Arteta is still an novice himself and it shows but more damning is both the team and Arteta are not learning from their repeated mistakes, if these things are still allowed to continue they will become even more embedded and incredibly difficult to train out
Supposed blinkers aside our forwards aren't scoring, now if it were one or two you could put it down to attitude, ability or similar but when they are all unable to score it is more than that.
Our tactics do not enable our strikers to score regularly it is that simple, currently most of our goals are coming from midfield or wide players.
I may not be a premier League coach but I have 25 years experience in coaching so if I can see it then so should someone being paid millions of pounds a year to spot it and resolve it
As for defence yes we have improved but week in week out we see the same brain farts, this may be down to inexperience but it has been happening all season, it also happened last season, again this is something Arteta should be recognising and stamping out but game after game it is repeated and has been costly in recent games.
Arteta is still an novice himself and it shows but more damning is both the team and Arteta are not learning from their repeated mistakes, if these things are still allowed to continue they will become even more embedded and incredibly difficult to train out
All good points mate....interesting its defence and attack you mention....to me its that shocking midfield that is at greatest need of new quality recruits
I wonder what the Arteta apologist has got to say about moneybags West Ham coming from 1-2 down to be beating Chelsea?
I mean ask yourself- where could you possibly expect West Ham to finish with that squad?
Don't they know that unless you're nailed on to finish in the top 3 that gives you a free pass to get absolutely rinsed every time you play one of the top teams?
