West Ham Mf A Sun 16th April KO 2pm

[BFG4]

A forum like this can be therapeutic, particularly when you're pissed off after a bad result. Posting more when we lose has little to do with a level of fandom but more to do with not needing to say much when we win. No one on here wants to see the club lose, and posts claiming they do tend to be from 'super fans' who get frustrated because they are overly positive and most on here aren't. If you don't like what someone is saying then don't engage with them.

[augie]

A forum like this can be therapeutic, particularly when you're pissed off after a bad result. Posting more when we lose has little to do with a level of fandom but more to do with not needing to say much when we win. No one on here wants to see the club lose, and posts claiming they do tend to be from 'super fans' who get frustrated because they are overly positive and most on here aren't. If you don't like what someone is saying then don't engage with them.

Sid isnt a superfan - he is a hypocrite who used to bitch and slate on here as much as anyone did, but now that he has "seen the light", we are all supposed to agree with him or be damned otherwise

[augie]

Putting my own view across - I've openly admitted in the past that my level of posting increases when we're doing badly. Its the reason I joined in 2008 to start with. From my own perspective, its almost like a form of therapy - letting it all out, mostly having a bit of a laugh and the old 'safety in numbers' thing of knowing that other people are as equally fucked off as you.

The flip side of that is I've always been amongst the first on here to hold my hands up if I've been wrong about a particular match prediction, player, manager etc......and if we win the league and Arteta is carried on a throne around the stadium, I will very happily admit I got it wrong about him as a manager. To an extent - and I've said this in posts back to Augie for example - he has already done better than I ever imagined he could. I thought we'd still finish outside the top 4, and we won't. I'm pleased about that - no agenda from my side. He's proved me wrong. Certain players in the team have proved me wrong - I didn't particularly want Zinchenko and Jesus and questioned what their attitudes would be like coming from City. Got that wrong too. Never had a problem being proven wrong - would rather have an opinion, than be a fence sitter or someone who hedges their bets in a way that they can never be proven wrong.

One thing I will say - and I'm on record for it for 15 years on here - is that I have never, ever, once cheered against Arsenal. I wanted Wenger gone for best part of 10 years and there were many who talked about "the greater good" of us going out of cups, losing big matches......and I never once subscribed to any of that. When West Ham equalised on Sunday, I punched the sofa in utter frustration and spent the rest of the day with the almighty hump.

I don't know who the posts above are aimed at - possibly me, possibly not. I can't speak for other posters. I can explain why I post more when we lose, but from my own perspective it has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to be right about a manager or a player. I suspect others feel the same. Those that don't, and genuinely want us to lose to prove some sort of point can all f+++ right off too as far as I'm concerned, but I suspect they are in a very slender minority

I too didnt want jesus or zinchenko, but while I will admit that both have impressed me in many ways, I'm still not sure about either of them - zinchenko is a good footballer and helps link up our game going forward so much, but defensively he is iffy and is frequently out of position, but is that his fault if he is playing the inverted full back like his manager wants him to ?? Jesus, for a small man, links up the game really well and puts himself about a lot too, but I still dont think he is the clinical number 9 that a league winning team needs - it gets glossed over a lot, but he was on a nine games without scoring run before he got injured.

The thing about being proved wrong by arteta I'm also not sure about that yet - I liked the energy and play until the last second mentality, but I still believe that he is making mistakes that are costing this team at crucial stages. The swiss turd selection seems destined to be a never ending saga, but continually picking vieira over smith-rowe is quickly heading down the same road and defies all logic. His in game management last Sunday has been widely questioned by fans and ex players, so again I dont see improvement in that key area in him

[SteveO 35]

Putting my own view across - I've openly admitted in the past that my level of posting increases when we're doing badly. Its the reason I joined in 2008 to start with. From my own perspective, its almost like a form of therapy - letting it all out, mostly having a bit of a laugh and the old 'safety in numbers' thing of knowing that other people are as equally fucked off as you.

The flip side of that is I've always been amongst the first on here to hold my hands up if I've been wrong about a particular match prediction, player, manager etc......and if we win the league and Arteta is carried on a throne around the stadium, I will very happily admit I got it wrong about him as a manager. To an extent - and I've said this in posts back to Augie for example - he has already done better than I ever imagined he could. I thought we'd still finish outside the top 4, and we won't. I'm pleased about that - no agenda from my side. He's proved me wrong. Certain players in the team have proved me wrong - I didn't particularly want Zinchenko and Jesus and questioned what their attitudes would be like coming from City. Got that wrong too. Never had a problem being proven wrong - would rather have an opinion, than be a fence sitter or someone who hedges their bets in a way that they can never be proven wrong.

One thing I will say - and I'm on record for it for 15 years on here - is that I have never, ever, once cheered against Arsenal. I wanted Wenger gone for best part of 10 years and there were many who talked about "the greater good" of us going out of cups, losing big matches......and I never once subscribed to any of that. When West Ham equalised on Sunday, I punched the sofa in utter frustration and spent the rest of the day with the almighty hump.

I don't know who the posts above are aimed at - possibly me, possibly not. I can't speak for other posters. I can explain why I post more when we lose, but from my own perspective it has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to be right about a manager or a player. I suspect others feel the same. Those that don't, and genuinely want us to lose to prove some sort of point can all f+++ right off too as far as I'm concerned, but I suspect they are in a very slender minority

I too didnt want jesus or zinchenko, but while I will admit that both have impressed me in many ways, I'm still not sure about either of them - zinchenko is a good footballer and helps link up our game going forward so much, but defensively he is iffy and is frequently out of position, but is that his fault if he is playing the inverted full back like his manager wants him to ?? Jesus, for a small man, links up the game really well and puts himself about a lot too, but I still dont think he is the clinical number 9 that a league winning team needs - it gets glossed over a lot, but he was on a nine games without scoring run before he got injured.

The thing about being proved wrong by arteta I'm also not sure about that yet - I liked the energy and play until the last second mentality, but I still believe that he is making mistakes that are costing this team at crucial stages. The swiss turd selection seems destined to be a never ending saga, but continually picking vieira over smith-rowe is quickly heading down the same road and defies all logic. His in game management last Sunday has been widely questioned by fans and ex players, so again I dont see improvement in that key area in him

When I say proven wrong, I mean that I predicted the man would be a total disaster i.e. would take us lower than 8th and ultimately end up getting sacked with us being somewhere around mid-table (like Potter at Chelsea for example). That quite clearly hasn't happened. I didn't ever dream Arteta or anyone else would have us even remotely challenging for the title in the next couple of years, and regardless of what might happen now, I am wrong on that too. I also have my misgivings - the preference for some of the players you mention, interesting substitutions etc, but those would be misgivings many fans at certain clubs have. For example certain England and Chavski managers have been obsessed with the likes of Mason Mount, with many fans failing to understand why he got picked ahead of other players. The Swiss turd has bamboozled both Wenger and Emery (plus many a Switzerland manager) - so he isn't alone in that issue

[the playing mantis]

Augie and steveo given how beyond expectations we have been doing but factoring into the continued failings in certain key areas do you think he should be in charge next season? Of course he will be but interesting to see what people think. Despite reservations I think what has happened this year shows promise and he should be, next year being the real test, as was this season a fluke, a factor of circumstance given the implosion of the 'big 6'.

Appreciate this could turn into a judge me in May cycle!

And I'm a fence sitter as I've gone from massively anti to slightly pro and now back to concerned...

[SteveO 35]

Augie and steveo given how beyond expectations we have been doing but factoring into the continued failings in certain key areas do you think he should be in charge next season? Of course he will be but interesting to see what people think. Despite reservations I think what has happened this year shows promise and he should be, next year being the real test, as was this season a fluke, a factor of circumstance given the implosion of the 'big 6'.

Appreciate this could turn into a judge me in May cycle!

And I'm a fence sitter as I've gone from massively anti to slightly pro and now back to concerned...

He has to be in charge next season - as I said above, he has outweighed almost everyone's expectations this season. It would now take a disaster to finish lower than 2nd, and that in itself is huge progress - beyond mine or most people's widest expectations. Without doubt he should remain manager. The football we played under him during the pandemic and the year after was mindnumbingly boring - some of the worst I've ever witnessed, and he has moved that on to the level where we have been a joy to watch for large parts of the season. Winning, attacking, exciting football - all of that deserves massive credit and he has more than earned the right to continue with his work

The true masters of the art then take that on a level don't they, and that's the next test. How do you go from 'very good' to 'winners'. Who are the experienced pros that can be called upon to see out that win at Anfield or West Ham? Have the current squad learned the lessons of last year and toughened up? Who are the ones that wilt under pressure and will they be replaced?

If he takes what he's done this season and adds some leadership and steel - a centre half, two central midfielders, a proper right back to relieve White of the need to have play there every week, and potentially another attacking player - and turfs some of the paperweights, then he has the opportunity to write a new chapter in our history.

Its a bit like how I felt in 1987 under George, 1997 under Wenger......which ultimately went the right way......on the cusp of something exciting and it turned into multiple trophy winning teams. Or will it be like how I felt in 2008 - on the cusp of something exciting before it all proved to be a flash in the pan with a manager who spent the next decade not learning any lessons and stubbornly clinging to a 'non winning' brand of football. Who knows?

[augie]

Augie and steveo given how beyond expectations we have been doing but factoring into the continued failings in certain key areas do you think he should be in charge next season? Of course he will be but interesting to see what people think. Despite reservations I think what has happened this year shows promise and he should be, next year being the real test, as was this season a fluke, a factor of circumstance given the implosion of the 'big 6'.

Appreciate this could turn into a judge me in May cycle!

And I'm a fence sitter as I've gone from massively anti to slightly pro and now back to concerned...

He has to be in charge next season - as I said above, he has outweighed almost everyone's expectations this season. It would now take a disaster to finish lower than 2nd, and that in itself is huge progress - beyond mine or most people's widest expectations. Without doubt he should remain manager. The football we played under him during the pandemic and the year after was mindnumbingly boring - some of the worst I've ever witnessed, and he has moved that on to the level where we have been a joy to watch for large parts of the season. Winning, attacking, exciting football - all of that deserves massive credit and he has more than earned the right to continue with his work

The true masters of the art then take that on a level don't they, and that's the next test. How do you go from 'very good' to 'winners'. Who are the experienced pros that can be called upon to see out that win at Anfield or West Ham? Have the current squad learned the lessons of last year and toughened up? Who are the ones that wilt under pressure and will they be replaced?

If he takes what he's done this season and adds some leadership and steel - a centre half, two central midfielders, a proper right back to relieve White of the need to have play there every week, and potentially another attacking player - and turfs some of the paperweights, then he has the opportunity to write a new chapter in our history.

Its a bit like how I felt in 1987 under George, 1997 under Wenger......which ultimately went the right way......on the cusp of something exciting and it turned into multiple trophy winning teams. Or will it be like how I felt in 2008 - on the cusp of something exciting before it all proved to be a flash in the pan with a manager who spent the next decade not learning any lessons and stubbornly clinging to a 'non winning' brand of football. Who knows?

That would be my sentiment too - it would take a monumental collapse now to justify sacking him, and he has probably earned the right for another shot next season.

Here's the thing though - do we all agree that next season the victims, manure and a champs league qualified geordie club will be much improved ? Is it realistic to expect the chavs to be this shit again next season if they appoint a proper manager ? Will our neighbours be a more unified club next season, and thus be a stronger outfit as a result ? Reality, whether some like to deny it or not, is that we have been top in a season where our rivals have all been very poor or average - I dont care about that if we go on to win it because all the record backs will say is that we won it, but at same time we do need to acknowledge that if we dont win it this season, then the blow to our confidence allied to our rivals expected improvements, will see next season being much, much tougher imo. Leicester winning the league like they did is a once in a lifetime event, and yes it coincided with another freak season where all the big clubs hit a nosedive, but credit to leicester cos they summoned up the balls to go and win the thing when the opportunity was there - saying that we have exceeded expectations is all well and good (and 100% true), but the reality is that in this money dominated football world, this chance might not arrive again anytime soon and we needed to grab this chance now, but sadly it doesnt look likely to happen

[barnetgooner]

That would be my sentiment too - it would take a monumental collapse now to justify sacking him, and he has probably earned the right for another shot next season.

“Probably”… . He is PL manager of the season and it’s not remotely close.

There is not a single football executive in the world who would at all consider firing him this summer regardless of the remaining results.

[SteveO 35]

Augie and steveo given how beyond expectations we have been doing but factoring into the continued failings in certain key areas do you think he should be in charge next season? Of course he will be but interesting to see what people think. Despite reservations I think what has happened this year shows promise and he should be, next year being the real test, as was this season a fluke, a factor of circumstance given the implosion of the 'big 6'.

Appreciate this could turn into a judge me in May cycle!

And I'm a fence sitter as I've gone from massively anti to slightly pro and now back to concerned...

He has to be in charge next season - as I said above, he has outweighed almost everyone's expectations this season. It would now take a disaster to finish lower than 2nd, and that in itself is huge progress - beyond mine or most people's widest expectations. Without doubt he should remain manager. The football we played under him during the pandemic and the year after was mindnumbingly boring - some of the worst I've ever witnessed, and he has moved that on to the level where we have been a joy to watch for large parts of the season. Winning, attacking, exciting football - all of that deserves massive credit and he has more than earned the right to continue with his work

The true masters of the art then take that on a level don't they, and that's the next test. How do you go from 'very good' to 'winners'. Who are the experienced pros that can be called upon to see out that win at Anfield or West Ham? Have the current squad learned the lessons of last year and toughened up? Who are the ones that wilt under pressure and will they be replaced?

If he takes what he's done this season and adds some leadership and steel - a centre half, two central midfielders, a proper right back to relieve White of the need to have play there every week, and potentially another attacking player - and turfs some of the paperweights, then he has the opportunity to write a new chapter in our history.

Its a bit like how I felt in 1987 under George, 1997 under Wenger......which ultimately went the right way......on the cusp of something exciting and it turned into multiple trophy winning teams. Or will it be like how I felt in 2008 - on the cusp of something exciting before it all proved to be a flash in the pan with a manager who spent the next decade not learning any lessons and stubbornly clinging to a 'non winning' brand of football. Who knows?

That would be my sentiment too - it would take a monumental collapse now to justify sacking him, and he has probably earned the right for another shot next season.

Here's the thing though - do we all agree that next season the victims, manure and a champs league qualified geordie club will be much improved ? Is it realistic to expect the chavs to be this shit again next season if they appoint a proper manager ? Will our neighbours be a more unified club next season, and thus be a stronger outfit as a result ? Reality, whether some like to deny it or not, is that we have been top in a season where our rivals have all been very poor or average - I dont care about that if we go on to win it because all the record backs will say is that we won it, but at same time we do need to acknowledge that if we dont win it this season, then the blow to our confidence allied to our rivals expected improvements, will see next season being much, much tougher imo. Leicester winning the league like they did is a once in a lifetime event, and yes it coincided with another freak season where all the big clubs hit a nosedive, but credit to leicester cos they summoned up the balls to go and win the thing when the opportunity was there - saying that we have exceeded expectations is all well and good (and 100% true), but the reality is that in this money dominated football world, this chance might not arrive again anytime soon and we needed to grab this chance now, but sadly it doesnt look likely to happen

I don't think its guaranteed that all of those teams will suddenly be world beaters, but a natural assumption would be that at least a couple of them get their shit together. Newcastle have never had to cope with a big squad of big personalities, and Chavski have proved that it takes a certain kind of special manager to be able to manage them if you do. Can Eddie Howe do that? Who knows? Spuds - not so sure. Mickeys - they need some serious midfield investment and VVD and chums at the back look a shadow of their former selves.

However, I've said on here a few times - this might be the best opportunity we get for another 19 years. As you say, Leicester took theirs....will we take ours? Football is about seizing the moment. Greece took theirs in 2004, Leicester 2016, Wigan's FA Cup in 2013......they are the ones people remember forever, but there are many many more that don't take the chance. It certainly isn't inconceivable that City could finish 15 points clear next season, that United improve by a dozen points (given their awful start) etc

[BobbyPires7]

Arteta is here for as long as he wants.

We won’t win the League this year but if we can ship out some of the dross and replace them with proper top drawer professionals then I can only see us getting better. City will also start to lose some of their older pros and that may lead to them starting to struggle.

We need a fit Saliba plus a proper back up (not sure if it’s Kiwior). We also need winners. Zinchenko and Jesus type players that know what is required. Xhaka has to go.

[barnetgooner]

Football is about seizing the moment. Greece took theirs in 2004, Leicester 2016, Wigan's FA Cup in 2013......they are the ones people remember forever, but there are many many more that don't take the chance. It certainly isn't inconceivable that City could finish 15 points clear next season, that United improve by a dozen points (given their awful start) etc

Of course football is about seizing the moment but we are nothing like any of those teams. Wigan & Greece won knockout tournaments over 6 matches playing defensively (and well done to them).

Leicester, as incredible as that was, were just competing with 2 massive bottlers in late-Wenger Arsenal and Spurs, easily won with 81 points and were asset stripped within a few months.

Who knows what happens in the future but this Arsenal team is fully competing on merit.

[BobbyPires7]

Beyond the first 11 we don’t have the “killers” to capitalise on the position we are in. Just don’t have the mental approach to do it.

[SteveO 35]

Football is about seizing the moment. Greece took theirs in 2004, Leicester 2016, Wigan's FA Cup in 2013......they are the ones people remember forever, but there are many many more that don't take the chance. It certainly isn't inconceivable that City could finish 15 points clear next season, that United improve by a dozen points (given their awful start) etc

Of course football is about seizing the moment but we are nothing like any of those teams. Wigan & Greece won knockout tournaments over 6 matches playing defensively (and well done to them).

Leicester, as incredible as that was, were just competing with 2 massive bottlers in late-Wenger Arsenal and Spurs, easily won with 81 points and were asset stripped within a few months.

Who knows what happens in the future but this Arsenal team is fully competing on merit.

We have 7 games remaining - I'd argue our 'seize the moment' now is akin to a tournament format

[falkirk goon]

If as I expect we fall short this season I fully expect he will be here next season,I'm far from convinced by him..and the main reason is the Basel bulge He has been backed by the owners and if we are to get to the next level he will need to be backed again.That fucking Swiss/Albanian or whatever the fuck he classes himself as has to fucking go though he just has to,as he is the main reason we won't move forward to the winners enclosure imo..and that at the end of the day is on Arteta.

[augie]

Football is about seizing the moment. Greece took theirs in 2004, Leicester 2016, Wigan's FA Cup in 2013......they are the ones people remember forever, but there are many many more that don't take the chance. It certainly isn't inconceivable that City could finish 15 points clear next season, that United improve by a dozen points (given their awful start) etc

Of course football is about seizing the moment but we are nothing like any of those teams. Wigan & Greece won knockout tournaments over 6 matches playing defensively (and well done to them).

Leicester, as incredible as that was, were just competing with 2 massive bottlers in late-Wenger Arsenal and Spurs, easily won with 81 points and were asset stripped within a few months.

Who knows what happens in the future but this Arsenal team is fully competing on merit.

If you want to go down that road you should acknowledge that this season we are only competing with a champs league obsessed city who are less focused on the premier league than in seasons gone by, and that next season there will without doubt be another 2 or 3 teams minimum that we will have to compete with