Citeh A Weds 26th Apr KO 8pm

[rodders999]

Fear is such a horrible trait to see in a sports team, it shows a deep rooted weakness right across the group.

Away to Newcastle at the end of last season was a painful experience, top 4 was on the line and the entire team collapsed under the weight of the pressure and barley had a touch of the ball for the entire 90 minutes. They were beaten up all over the pitch, every single player outmatched by their opponent and nobody was capable of doing a single thing to stop it.

Exactly the same as what happened last night except with a far bigger prize at stake.

They were paralysed with fear from minute 1, yet again the entire team seemed barley able to move around the pitch under the weight of the pressure of being in this situation. Mentally exhausted, defeated before a ball was even kicked.

They didn’t go down swinging, they went out with a whimper, players hiding in plain sight just as they did this time last year.

The same players who torpedoed last season are doing the same thing now, and make no mistake, given the chance again next year they’ll do the same thing again.

Fear is ugly and it’s contagious, we need to sign players who when they see others running for the trenches are capable of leading and grabbing games by the scruff of the neck and getting the rest to follow - something this team is sadly lacking.

[SteveO 35]

Fear is such a horrible trait to see in a sports team, it shows a deep rooted weakness right across the group.

Away to Newcastle at the end of last season was a painful experience, top 4 was on the line and the entire team collapsed under the weight of the pressure and barley had a touch of the ball for the entire 90 minutes. They were beaten up all over the pitch, every single player outmatched by their opponent and nobody was capable of doing a single thing to stop it.

Exactly the same as what happened last night except with a far bigger prize at stake.

They were paralysed with fear from minute 1, yet again the entire team seemed barley able to move around the pitch under the weight of the pressure of being in this situation. Mentally exhausted, defeated before a ball was even kicked.

They didn’t go down swinging, they went out with a whimper, players hiding in plain sight just as they did this time last year.

The same players who torpedoed last season are doing the same thing now, and make no mistake, given the chance again next year they’ll do the same thing again.

Fear is ugly and it’s contagious, we need to sign players who when they see others running for the trenches are capable of leading and grabbing games by the scruff of the neck and getting the rest to follow - something this team is sadly lacking.

100% correct. Losing to City isn't a disgrace. Drawing at Anfield isn't a disgrace. Dropping the odd point here and there in a match you're nailed on to win (Saints, West Ham) isn't a disgrace.

What is a disgrace is throwing the towel in and shitting your pants every time it matters. International midfielders who cost the club almost £80m between them in their peak years, just getting bullied and having the piss taken out of them is a disgrace. They aren't 19 and 21 years old - they are 29 and 30 years old. The same CBs who cost us against Newcastle and Spurs last season being allowed to do it all over again is a disgrace. The same inability to change the way you play whether its Man City away or Shrewsbury at home is a disgrace. Rinse and repeat the same shit every year is a disgrace. Defend the same players - Clive in particular - is a disgrace. These are all things we hounded Wenger out for, and Emery out for. Whilst I defended Emery on the basis of not enough time or investment, I never wanted him originally and I accepted that his team went missing when the pressure really mounted for the top 4 and the EL final. This team aren't showing me anything differently mentally. We've spent way more cash than ever more and capitalised on the turmoil at Spurs, Chelsea and Man Ure to finish higher up the table - but we did that back in 2016......and then Man City, the Mickeys and others sorted their shit out and we went backwards from 2nd place. I don't see anything different this time round

[BobbyPires7]

I see reality has kicked in and actually I’m not an outlier. We have collapsed. We have reverted to type when it matters. There is no real change year on year other than a good run when we were flat track bullying again.

Nice to see the sensible posters are on board with what was clear a few games ago. When are the shouters going to come on board? This side is nowhere near as good as people think it is. Even when we were winning we were squeaking past teams on adrenaline. We were at peak peak. Now we are probably below our best. Arteta is floundering and we are shot.

[Gunner Rob]

i think the most disappointing aspect has been how the "title challenge" has evaporated so early.
I probably didn't really expect us to win the league, but I did hope that some of the games coming up (Chelsea, Newcastle, Brighton) would at least be meaningful. Now they are just end of season kickabouts.

[SteveO 35]

I see reality has kicked in and actually I’m not an outlier. We have collapsed. We have reverted to type when it matters. There is no real change year on year other than a good run when we were flat track bullying again.

Nice to see the sensible posters are on board with what was clear a few games ago. When are the shouters going to come on board? This side is nowhere near as good as people think it is. Even when we were winning we were squeaking past teams on adrenaline. We were at peak peak. Now we are probably below our best. Arteta is floundering and we are shot.

The club is at its Liverpool moment where the narrowly missed the title in 2019 despite playing the best football they'd played in the PL in nigh on 30 years. Do you roll over and say "we just can't get past City" or do you find the players, leaders, resolve, balls to make changes and go again and win the league? Are we Liverpool 2019, or Arsenal 2016 when we finished 2nd?

Only the owners and manager can decide what comes next. What is absolutely clear is that the "clear out" that Arteta was praised for will need a second phase because if Holding, Tomiyasu, Clive, Gabriel, Partey, Vieira and a host of other fringe players are going to be exposed to a dual season of PL & CL football, then there is absolutely no hope of being the 2019 Liverpool, and every chance of being Wenger's 2016 pussies

[BobbyPires7]

I see reality has kicked in and actually I’m not an outlier. We have collapsed. We have reverted to type when it matters. There is no real change year on year other than a good run when we were flat track bullying again.

Nice to see the sensible posters are on board with what was clear a few games ago. When are the shouters going to come on board? This side is nowhere near as good as people think it is. Even when we were winning we were squeaking past teams on adrenaline. We were at peak peak. Now we are probably below our best. Arteta is floundering and we are shot.

The club is at its Liverpool moment where the narrowly missed the title in 2019 despite playing the best football they'd played in the PL in nigh on 30 years. Do you roll over and say "we just can't get past City" or do you find the players, leaders, resolve, balls to make changes and go again and win the league? Are we Liverpool 2019, or Arsenal 2016 when we finished 2nd?

Only the owners and manager can decide what comes next. What is absolutely clear is that the "clear out" that Arteta was praised for will need a second phase because if Holding, Tomiyasu, Clive, Gabriel, Partey, Vieira and a host of other fringe players are going to be exposed to a dual season of PL & CL football, then there is absolutely no hope of being the 2019 Liverpool, and every chance of being Wenger's 2016 pussies

100% agreed. We need the lure of Champions League to go big in the market this summer. Apart from quality we need leaders and players with backbones. If Kroenke backs Arteta and we manage to buy the right players we can kick on as we have the bones of a decent team. If we don’t go out and buy these top players we will revert to the mean. My big worry is Saliba as he has been shown to be our most key player of all. Not Partey. Not Jesus. Saliba. We need him fit and we need another Saliba. Because Gabriel is all over the place and Holding. Well the less said.

[falkirk goon]

I think the initial damage,the chipping away at the foundations happened back in Feb when we lost at city in the cup(never ever fling in a cup you can win) the blue dippers defeat followed then the dropped points v Brentford and the self harm ringholing from the oil cheats at ours..That run of 4 without a win,8 dropped points and a cup exit set the tone for what has happened now.Sure we won 7 on the bounce in the league bit we scraped past Villa and Bournemouth (I stupidly had myself believing,tears the lot) what a stupid auld arsehole I feel like now
Anyhoo the 4 without a win allowed City to stay in touch,had we opened a bigger gap they may have flung the towel in you never know but they probably seen blood in the water even then..Had it been City scoring in injury time against Bournemouth and Villa it would've floored us,fuck I remember when they nicked their late win at Palace 1-0 80mins I was gutted cos I knew we needed more of a gap heading into these games.I seen Liverpool A lastnight Barcodes A Brighton H as the dropped points games.I didn't for a second think we would fuck away points at West Ham and Soton and when you look at those games we don't deserve to win a title.Were in freefall now I'll have a go at predicting the last 5
Chavs D
Toon L(heavily)
Brighton D
Forest D
Wolves W(handsomely)
Lap of appreciation will follow..but the ghosts of le bulbeye remain..Xhaka(he started this slide the bastard) and Holding..2 fartpipe signings still stinking the place out.

[BFG4]

I remember around the time we beat Spurs and United in January, Ramsdale appearing on several different football podcasts, then the week of the 2nd leg against Sporting Lisbon, Arteta was doing an interview with a fashion magazine about his style on match day All of it struck me as players and manager believing their own hype and when you consider how weak they all are mentally, it makes it more pathetic. Some will celebrate 2nd and tell you what a great season we've had but to me, that Is just the stench of Wenger mediocrity hanging over the club.

[Clummo99]

This is only meant as a point of discussion and nothing else. Expanding on my post last night.



What was shown at the time. Only one line drawn. No vertical line fixing Stones' position. No ball in the frame to show when it was kicked.

The offside seems to have been judged from the players' feet? You only see what they want you to see.




An alternative angle more in line.

Ball is in motion and though you can't fully see Ben White's foot whatever way you cut it that's offside and no need to even draw any lines. Isn't it?

[rodders999]

City are an absolute machine - it's hard to see anyone getting near them for years to come now. Unlimited wealth which they use to the absolute maximum unlike the scatter gun brain dead approach taken by Bohely at the chavs, well coached and have 2 squads worth of exceptional talent at their disposal. World class players in almost every position with top class back ups behind them.

Mahrez scored a hattrick in an FA Cup semi final at the weekend and couldn't make the starting 11 last night, absolutely frightening to have that depth of quality at your disposal in order to make choices like that. Who even last scored a hattrick for us - Auba?

As you say SteveO there's no shame in not being able to compete with that, there's not a team in world football that could at the moment never mind one in this league but the distressing this is the manner of the defeat. 2 or 3 players aren't having off days, it's the entire team and that's not easily fixed.

I've enjoyed this season more than any other for as long as I can bloody remember, we've played some unbelievable football at times, scum home and away, Liverpool and united at home, chavs away, Villa & Fulham away and that unbelievable last second winner at home to Bournemouth - all great days.

But there's now a very definite question mark over this team that when the pressure really comes on at the business end of the season they won't be able to handle it and they'll collapse - this team is now 2 for 2 on that charge in the last 2 seasons.

Liverpool managed to wrestle it off them one year but only after all the stars aligned for them - sold Coutihno for 120 mill - a guy who never kicked a ball again in his career - re-invested that cash in Van Dijk and Alison and immediately improved their team by 20 points a season. Even at that and with two guys battling it out for the golden boot in their team - Salah and Mane - and finishing the campaign on 97 points it fucking still wasn't enough to finish above city! Near perfect all season and not good enough.

They needed 99 points and a covid impacted season to finally get the job done the year after, and the strains of having to go toe to toe with city now seems to have completely broken them after just 3 seasons. Meanwhile city added Haaland into the mix and are on the march for the treble, fuck knows what they'll add in the summer to dominate even more next year. Liverpool are currently 20 points behind them and city have a game in hand, absolutely pulverized in 3 years.

It's impossible to compete with them, as I said last night they're 15-20 points better than the rest, won 5 of the last 6 titles and hard not to see them winning the next 5. The fact we were even in a title scrap with them down the home stretch was incredible in it's own right, losing out to them is no shame but the manner of how it's unfolded is the real concern here.

[SteveO 35]

I see reality has kicked in and actually I’m not an outlier. We have collapsed. We have reverted to type when it matters. There is no real change year on year other than a good run when we were flat track bullying again.

Nice to see the sensible posters are on board with what was clear a few games ago. When are the shouters going to come on board? This side is nowhere near as good as people think it is. Even when we were winning we were squeaking past teams on adrenaline. We were at peak peak. Now we are probably below our best. Arteta is floundering and we are shot.

The club is at its Liverpool moment where the narrowly missed the title in 2019 despite playing the best football they'd played in the PL in nigh on 30 years. Do you roll over and say "we just can't get past City" or do you find the players, leaders, resolve, balls to make changes and go again and win the league? Are we Liverpool 2019, or Arsenal 2016 when we finished 2nd?

Only the owners and manager can decide what comes next. What is absolutely clear is that the "clear out" that Arteta was praised for will need a second phase because if Holding, Tomiyasu, Clive, Gabriel, Partey, Vieira and a host of other fringe players are going to be exposed to a dual season of PL & CL football, then there is absolutely no hope of being the 2019 Liverpool, and every chance of being Wenger's 2016 pussies

100% agreed. We need the lure of Champions League to go big in the market this summer. Apart from quality we need leaders and players with backbones. If Kroenke backs Arteta and we manage to buy the right players we can kick on as we have the bones of a decent team. If we don’t go out and buy these top players we will revert to the mean. My big worry is Saliba as he has been shown to be our most key player of all. Not Partey. Not Jesus. Saliba. We need him fit and we need another Saliba. Because Gabriel is all over the place and Holding. Well the less said.

I just looked back at the 2016 season - and our results after we beat Leicester 2-1 at home and became favourites to win the league

Man United (a) - lost 3-2, no surprise at all there. Made it 10 years without a win at their place....but opened up all the same mental frailties that had been exposed before. Read on....

After that we lost at home to Swansea 1-2, and between then and the end of the season drew 3-3 at West Ham, 1-1 at home to Palace, drew 0-0 at Sunderland etc.....and I think I'm right in saying Giroud did his disappearing act and went 12 games without scoring. The team were first after matchday 22, and by matchday 33 they were 4th. Then they got 7 points from the last 9 including a draw at City, and swatting poor old Villa 4-0 before the lap of appreciation

2013 anyone?

Top of the league after matchday 24, 4th by matchday 30 and won our last five games in a row scoring 12 goals and conceding 1. Before that the 5-1 mauling at Anfield which exposed all the mental flaws, was followed up with losses at Stoke (shock horror), the 6-0 caning at Stamford Bridge, a 2-2 at home to Swansea, a 3-0 defeat at Everton, before all the pressure was off and we swatted West Ham, Hull, a Mike Ashley version of Newcastle, West Brom and Norwich

New cast members, same issues. Put your house on us absolutely fucking over Forest and Wolves in those last two games. Vieira will probably score a couple and we'll hear about how 2 or 3 players will make it all better again

[falkirk goon]

This is only meant as a point of discussion and nothing else. Expanding on my post last night.



What was shown at the time. Only one line drawn. No vertical line fixing Stones' position. No ball in the frame to show when it was kicked.

The offside seems to have been judged from the players' feet? You only see what they want you to see.




An alternative angle more in line.

Ball is in motion and though you can't fully see Ben White's foot whatever way you cut it that's offside and no need to even draw any lines. Isn't it?

It did seem dodgy lastnight Clummo no ball being kicked in the shot so they can make up what they want to..it's ok though the PG whatever the fuck they're called can issue us an apology to go with the Brentford one Not that it would've made any difference but it definitely killed the game,and it definitely wouldn't have happened the other way round..I just hope Madrid smash them to fuck in the semis I really do.

[augie]

Have to say that I feel the stick holding is getting is a touch harsh - yes we all know that he isnt of the required level, but we have known that for a long time now so I think the spotlight should be more focused on the likes of jesus, odeargod, zinchenko and even saka. Fans are defending saka and citing possible fatigue as a defence, and while that may be true, that to me defends a poor performance but it doesnt defend a guy going hiding and imo he has gone hiding big time in the last 3 or 4 games.
All season long the media and lots of fans made a big deal of the winning mentality that jesus and zinchenko brought with them from city - anyone see much of it lately ? Anyone can show a winning mentality when the team is flying it and winning every week, but the real winners know how to lift their team in those tough games when backs are to the wall, and we dont have those players imo. Our captain is the definition of the mental weakness of the team, but again is lauded by many for those games against the shit teams

There are two different types off leaders in a team imo - you have the TA6 type who continually organise, bollock and urge their team-mates on during games. and you have your PV4 who doesnt talk anywhere near as much but leads by example. We have neither. To be a leader though you need characteristics that this manager doesnt want in the club - it is shameful that we have no-one in the team to snap that grealish c.unt in half last night, but players like sokratis and guendouzi are not the yes men players that arteta likes. Not every player in a team has to be top quality and our GG teams showed that, but you have to have a few "fighters" to do the rough work and let the artists play - no way would haaland have been able to take in and lay off balls as easy against sokratis.

Because I never expected to win the league I am not experiencing the massive low on here that some are, and I dont need to go lashing out at others to deflect. What is killing me this morning though, is that I dont think things will change going forward - we will sign the same type of players, play the same type of tactics, and continually roll over to get our belly tickled by the big teams. I look at our neighbouring scum and say to people why are they surprised at their capitulations because it is not a club that is used to success, and it doesnt have a winning mentality - we are fast approaching the same scenario and the longer it goes without a league title, the more failure becomes rooted in the club

[Clummo99]

This is only meant as a point of discussion and nothing else. Expanding on my post last night.



What was shown at the time. Only one line drawn. No vertical line fixing Stones' position. No ball in the frame to show when it was kicked.

The offside seems to have been judged from the players' feet? You only see what they want you to see.




An alternative angle more in line.

Ball is in motion and though you can't fully see Ben White's foot whatever way you cut it that's offside and no need to even draw any lines. Isn't it?

It did seem dodgy lastnight Clummo no ball being kicked in the shot so they can make up what they want to..it's ok though the PG whatever the fuck they're called can issue us an apology to go with the Brentford one Not that it would've made any difference but it definitely killed the game,and it definitely wouldn't have happened the other way round..I just hope Madrid smash them to fuck in the semis I really do.

I'm certainly not saying it would have made any difference to the outcome but getting to halftime at 0-1 would have possibly had a different effect.

If there is a camera view that shows the action from a perpendicular angle then why wouldn't they use it? The Lino is in line and he put his flag up.

Incompetence more than corruption imo.

[BobbyPires7]

We need to sign tough under pressure bastards that don’t change their game whether they are playing Forest at Home or City away. I actually think that Jorginho is one of those players. But Arteta can’t be bothered to play him. He’s past his best for sure but he would have helped shore the midfield up last night. We are a young side in parts but actually it’s the experienced players that have let us down.

Xhaka, Partey, Zinchenko, Gabriel. All experienced. All not good enough.

The last few games were when you play experienced pros to steady the ship. Arteta played Vieira instead of Jorginho or even Trossard. It simply built up the pressure for the City game. I don’t think he could have managed us in a worse way over the last three games. He literally has cranked up the pressure on us game by game. Has really shown himself up.