Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

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BobbyPires7
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by BobbyPires7 »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 9:25 pm
Most people on here said we needed 5 players minimum if we made the CL

Given that the consensus view is that ESR and Balogun will be off as a minimum, will that be enough?
I think we are being badly found out in a fair few positions and I actually think we need a lot more than people think. We won’t sign what we want anyway. We’ll go backwards next season. Champions League will stress the squad even more than the light European duties we had this season. If we could raid Brighton I would take half of their side. Estupinan. MacAllister. Caicedo. Dunk as a leader to partner Saliba. Probably a few others.

Retro Gunner
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by Retro Gunner »

Well, that's it all over now, but in reality, it's been all over since the West Ham and Soton games.

Got to hand it to Brighton, they gave us a footballing lesson today and that second half was a total embarrassment. Anyone who didn't know, would have thought that they were the title contenders, who'd been top for weeks on end and that we were the ones fighting for a Europa place. They out footballed us and outfought us.

What they exposed today, in stark relief, was all our weak points, the weaknesses that in most games we manage to paper over, but which all came apart en masse today.

The single biggest weakness is the same one we've had ever since PV 4 was sold...centre midfield. We've all said it a million times about Xhaka, but those around him are also not good enough. I knew nothing about Partey when we signed him, but I've been disappointed since he first arrived. There was talk on here and in the media earlier in the season that he was the beating heart of the team, but I never saw it and certainly not consistently. He was better than previous seasons, but that was all imo. In the last couple of months he's reverted to type. I never rated Jorginho at the chavs and although he performed well at Newcastle, his performance today is what I expect from him. I suppose that leaves the 2nd rate Elneny and ESR...God knows what's going on there. Our defence gets a lot of stick on here, as it did under the Old Fraud's teams, but they get no cover from centre midfield and that makes life very difficult.

We are woefully short up front and Jesus is never going to be the answer. He simply isn't a natural goalscorer and will miss more than he'll convert. I said it when we bought him (and got in a a bit of a spat with someone on here over it), but he's a 12 league goals a season man and you don't win trophies with a striker that doesn't score. I'm no fan of Eddie, but our recent collapse has actually coincided with Jesus' return...coincidence, who knows?

Lots of criticism on here about Zinchenko, but I still don't know what to make of him. What I do know is that he's no left back! White got skinned today, but for a guy we bought to be a centre half (I think), he hasn't performed badly this season, even though I'm not convinced he's good enough to be our right back. Fuck knows what Kiwior was doing staying down when his foot got trod on and his boot came off. You get up and carry on until the ball is cleared ffs. He clearly wasn't badly hurt, as he carried on after the usual pretend bollocks with the physio. :roll: He needs to be absolutely bollocked for that, seriously torn a new one.

Saka has been poor of late, but was absolutely awful today. If he's not doing it and Jesus is not doing it (other than rolling around on the floor and crying for free kicks that he doesn't get), then we're only relying on Martinelli up front. As for Odegaard, a lovely technical footballer, but as we all know, disappears when it gets tough.

I think most people know my feelings on Ramsdale...he's not good enough. At least one of the goals at the Hammers he should have done better with, then the fuck up for Saints' first goal (which probably cost us the win) and the third goal today....he could possibly have done better with the second goal today...all prove that he's too unreliable. There have been other questions recently, but they are the obvious examples. He's an accident waiting to happen

Not sure where we go from here, but as SteveO says, it's a minimum of 5 quality players required and I can't see that happening. Even if I take the very real positives from this season, because there have been many, the old failings have reared there heads again and the ghost of Uncle Arsene looms large. I look at next season and can't help thinking that we'll struggle to get out of the CL group stage (even if we do, we'll go out in the first knock out round) and be in a fight for 4th place. Arteta obviously deserves another season, but judgement needs to be firm on what is expected. Sadly, Stan will be happy if he keeps us in the CL places, just as he was with the old fucker.
Last edited by Retro Gunner on Sun May 14, 2023 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Retro Gunner
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by Retro Gunner »

BobbyPires7 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 9:41 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 9:25 pm
Most people on here said we needed 5 players minimum if we made the CL

Given that the consensus view is that ESR and Balogun will be off as a minimum, will that be enough?
I think we are being badly found out in a fair few positions and I actually think we need a lot more than people think. We won’t sign what we want anyway. We’ll go backwards next season. Champions League will stress the squad even more than the light European duties we had this season. If we could raid Brighton I would take half of their side. Estupinan. MacAllister. Caicedo. Dunk as a leader to partner Saliba. Probably a few others.
Mitoma is top quality. I'll be amazed if he's still at Brighton for next season.

Interesting that you mention Dunk, because he's exactly what we haven't had since Bould, Adams and then Sol....a no nonsense, tough centre half that puts defending first. It's easy to think that he wouldn't be technically adept enough for our lot, but if he can do it at Brighton, who are a footballing side, then why not?

I wonder if we'll be back in for Caicedo?

A11M11
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by A11M11 »

After today apart from money why would any Brighton player see us as a step up They probably fancy their chances of finishing higher next season.

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augie
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by augie »

rodders999 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 8:56 pm
Sad to see what’s become of ESR this season. Came on today and didn’t have a kick. Looks unfit and overweight to me, Christ knows how.



Rodders, lets be fair here, how can any player be match fit with the amount of game time he has had in the last 6 months (including his spell out injured) ? Mentally do you think he feels wanted by arteta ? You cant just parachute a player into a team and expect him to be up to speed straight away

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SteveO 35
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by SteveO 35 »

Retro Gunner wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 11:03 pm
BobbyPires7 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 9:41 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 9:25 pm
Most people on here said we needed 5 players minimum if we made the CL

Given that the consensus view is that ESR and Balogun will be off as a minimum, will that be enough?
I think we are being badly found out in a fair few positions and I actually think we need a lot more than people think. We won’t sign what we want anyway. We’ll go backwards next season. Champions League will stress the squad even more than the light European duties we had this season. If we could raid Brighton I would take half of their side. Estupinan. MacAllister. Caicedo. Dunk as a leader to partner Saliba. Probably a few others.
Mitoma is top quality. I'll be amazed if he's still at Brighton for next season.

Interesting that you mention Dunk, because he's exactly what we haven't had since Bould, Adams and then Sol....a no nonsense, tough centre half that puts defending first. It's easy to think that he wouldn't be technically adept enough for our lot, but if he can do it at Brighton, who are a footballing side, then why not?

I wonder if we'll be back in for Caicedo?
The club (and most of its modern superfans) have turned their nose up at players like Dunk for the past 15 years. The first requirement now is to be able to pass the ball, and as for all this fucking shit about one centre half being right footed, and the other left footed......please, spare me! The first priority in that position is knowing how to defend, and a few times a season you're going to come up against someone who you need to win the physical battle against. For years know we've let players like Kevin Davies and Jason Roberts rough us up.......this season a big lump like Mikel Antonio. Yesterday that bloody kid Ferguson was shaking off Kiwior like a feather. Same old, same old. Weak as piss

BobbyPires7
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by BobbyPires7 »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 7:50 am
Retro Gunner wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 11:03 pm
BobbyPires7 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 9:41 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 9:25 pm
Most people on here said we needed 5 players minimum if we made the CL

Given that the consensus view is that ESR and Balogun will be off as a minimum, will that be enough?
I think we are being badly found out in a fair few positions and I actually think we need a lot more than people think. We won’t sign what we want anyway. We’ll go backwards next season. Champions League will stress the squad even more than the light European duties we had this season. If we could raid Brighton I would take half of their side. Estupinan. MacAllister. Caicedo. Dunk as a leader to partner Saliba. Probably a few others.
Mitoma is top quality. I'll be amazed if he's still at Brighton for next season.

Interesting that you mention Dunk, because he's exactly what we haven't had since Bould, Adams and then Sol....a no nonsense, tough centre half that puts defending first. It's easy to think that he wouldn't be technically adept enough for our lot, but if he can do it at Brighton, who are a footballing side, then why not?

I wonder if we'll be back in for Caicedo?
The club (and most of its modern superfans) have turned their nose up at players like Dunk for the past 15 years. The first requirement now is to be able to pass the ball, and as for all this fucking shit about one centre half being right footed, and the other left footed......please, spare me! The first priority in that position is knowing how to defend, and a few times a season you're going to come up against someone who you need to win the physical battle against. For years know we've let players like Kevin Davies and Jason Roberts rough us up.......this season a big lump like Mikel Antonio. Yesterday that bloody kid Ferguson was shaking off Kiwior like a feather. Same old, same old. Weak as piss
It’s a laugh isn’t it how so many of our fans don’t actually understand football. You need hard bastards with leadership skills blended in with technical players to stand any chance of winning something. They just don’t get it.

fivetothree
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by fivetothree »

I think the injuries to key players and lack of squad depth has hit us really.

We had the same problem last year for top 4. What is clear is that we need quality players in the CB, Central Midfield, Right Wing and Striker positions as a minimum.

It is going to be a challenge to do all that when you are looking at £200m+ to fund all that. The club is going to have to be smart with sales and get as much as we can for Balagun, ESR, Pepe, Holding, Tierney, and one of Xhaka or Partey. We need at least £100m from that lot.

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OneBardGooner
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by OneBardGooner »

Retro Gunner wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 10:53 pm
Well, that's it all over now, but in reality, it's been all over since the West Ham and Soton games.

Got to hand it to Brighton, they gave us a footballing lesson today and that second half was a total embarrassment. Anyone who didn't know, would have thought that they were the title contenders, who'd been top for weeks on end and that we were the ones fighting for a Europa place. They out footballed us and outfought us.

What they exposed today, in stark relief, was all our weak points, the weaknesses that in most games we manage to paper over, but which all came apart en masse today.

The single biggest weakness is the same one we've had ever since PV 4 was sold...centre midfield. We've all said it a million times about Xhaka, but those around him are also not good enough. I knew nothing about Partey when we signed him, but I've been disappointed since he first arrived. There was talk on here and in the media earlier in the season that he was the beating heart of the team, but I never saw it and certainly not consistently. He was better than previous seasons, but that was all imo. In the last couple of months he's reverted to type. I never rated Jorginho at the chavs and although he performed well at Newcastle, his performance today is what I expect from him. I suppose that leaves the 2nd rate Elneny and ESR...God knows what's going on there. Our defence gets a lot of stick on here, as it did under the Old Fraud's teams, but they get no cover from centre midfield and that makes life very difficult.

We are woefully short up front and Jesus is never going to be the answer. He simply isn't a natural goalscorer and will miss more than he'll convert. I said it when we bought him (and got in a a bit of a spat with someone on here over it), but he's a 12 league goals a season man and you don't win trophies with a striker that doesn't score. I'm no fan of Eddie, but our recent collapse has actually coincided with Jesus' return...coincidence, who knows?

Lots of criticism on here about Zinchenko, but I still don't know what to make of him. What I do know is that he's no left back! White got skinned today, but for a guy we bought to be a centre half (I think), he hasn't performed badly this season, even though I'm not convinced he's good enough to be our right back. Fuck knows what Kiwior was doing staying down when his foot got trod on and his boot came off. You get up and carry on until the ball is cleared ffs. He clearly wasn't badly hurt, as he carried on after the usual pretend bollocks with the physio. :roll: He needs to be absolutely bollocked for that, seriously torn a new one.

Saka has been poor of late, but was absolutely awful today. If he's not doing it and Jesus is not doing it (other than rolling around on the floor and crying for free kicks that he doesn't get), then we're only relying on Martinelli up front. As for Odegaard, a lovely technical footballer, but as we all know, disappears when it gets tough.

I think most people know my feelings on Ramsdale...he's not good enough. At least one of the goals at the Hammers he should have done better with, then the fuck up for Saints' first goal (which probably cost us the win) and the third goal today....he could possibly have done better with the second goal today...all prove that he's too unreliable. There have been other questions recently, but they are the obvious examples. He's an accident waiting to happen

Not sure where we go from here, but as SteveO says, it's a minimum of 5 quality players required and I can't see that happening. Even if I take the very real positives from this season, because there have been many, the old failings have reared there heads again and the ghost of Uncle Arsene looms large. I look at next season and can't help thinking that we'll struggle to get out of the CL group stage (even if we do, we'll go out in the first knock out round) and be in a fight for 4th place. Arteta obviously deserves another season, but judgement needs to be firm on what is expected. Sadly, Stan will be happy if he keeps us in the CL places, just as he was with the old fucker.

Verrily and Sadly tis as you say.


I can only hope that the "Process" they want us to trust (and believe in) is indeed, still in its early stages and that this season we are / were ahead of schedule.

Those of us with a positive and hopeful outlook knew it was going to be something of a Miracle if we somehow managed to win the title, $hitty are a well Oiled (financed by same) Machine and having been there and done it, got the T-Shirt and the DVD etc etc .


They were just waiting for us to make the tiniest error, for me that began against the scouseFilth, and it was xhaka who gave them a way back into the game, up to that point we were playing very good creative attacking football and defending well, and they had no answers; especially as they were struggling for confidence and any kind of the form, the darn good form we have witnessed from them these past 4 seasons.

We owned the midfield, then of course the 'accident who keeps happening' did what he has been doing since he arrived and sabotaged what we were doing, his foolishness gave them a way back into the game, their fans as well as the players could see what was happening and so seized on that brief glimmer of a chance.... And the rest as they say is history...

In the great scheme of things we can never truly know, how things might have turned out, but I would like to think, had we won at Anfield we wouldn't have fucked up at the Shammers and then against Southampton.

It is all Fine Margins as they say.


So Arteta & Edu need to be ruthless and clever, they must get rid of all the remaining dross and bring in some experienced players with skills but who can also get stuck in and lead from the front or wherever else when it is needed on the pitch, so when the going gets tough they roll up their sleeves and get stuck in whilst maintaining their creativity and heads.

As long as we have the likes of xhaka and the level of players like nketiah, holding, tomiyasu (who started well but faded after injury) in the squad we will (sadly) fall short.

And with the likes of manure, the chavs, $hitty and the 5 bellied knuckle draggers all spending Big etc in the Summer we are going to need to be pretty fucking amazing to get anywhere near the title in the next 10 years, this was a Golden Opportunity (admittedly based on uncertain ground and faint hopes), but it was I believe the best chance we have had in 20 years...

:goingtobed:

Retro Gunner
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by Retro Gunner »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 7:50 am
Retro Gunner wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 11:03 pm
BobbyPires7 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 9:41 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2023 9:25 pm
Most people on here said we needed 5 players minimum if we made the CL

Given that the consensus view is that ESR and Balogun will be off as a minimum, will that be enough?
I think we are being badly found out in a fair few positions and I actually think we need a lot more than people think. We won’t sign what we want anyway. We’ll go backwards next season. Champions League will stress the squad even more than the light European duties we had this season. If we could raid Brighton I would take half of their side. Estupinan. MacAllister. Caicedo. Dunk as a leader to partner Saliba. Probably a few others.
Mitoma is top quality. I'll be amazed if he's still at Brighton for next season.

Interesting that you mention Dunk, because he's exactly what we haven't had since Bould, Adams and then Sol....a no nonsense, tough centre half that puts defending first. It's easy to think that he wouldn't be technically adept enough for our lot, but if he can do it at Brighton, who are a footballing side, then why not?

I wonder if we'll be back in for Caicedo?
The club (and most of its modern superfans) have turned their nose up at players like Dunk for the past 15 years. The first requirement now is to be able to pass the ball, and as for all this fucking shit about one centre half being right footed, and the other left footed......please, spare me! The first priority in that position is knowing how to defend, and a few times a season you're going to come up against someone who you need to win the physical battle against. For years know we've let players like Kevin Davies and Jason Roberts rough us up.......this season a big lump like Mikel Antonio. Yesterday that bloody kid Ferguson was shaking off Kiwior like a feather. Same old, same old. Weak as piss

Yep, the first job of a centre half, or a full back for that matter, is to defend and we’ve been bullied by physical strikers for years. Being tough enough to stand up to physical challenge doesn’t mean that the defender can’t also be technically capable, the two aren’t mutually exclusive, but given the choice, defending has to come first.

On a related point that I’ve made in a post above, our centre halves have for years come in for criticism that they don’t always deserve. The lack of protection from centre midfield is appalling and it’s been that way since Paddy left. To compound that, Wenger and those that have followed him, have used the fullbacks as virtual wingers, often more advanced than the actual winger and when teams break in us, the fullbacks aren’t in place, the crap centre midfield is always absent and two centre halves are left desperately trying to cover the whole back line against a wave of opposition strikers and midfielders.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by SteveO 35 »

Much as we think Gary Neville is an utter c.unt, there isn't a single word of his post match comments that I disagree with:

"It was a difficult game for Manchester City on paper but they strolled it and that has had an impact on those Arsenal players.

"It has been too much for them over the past few weeks. This moment was always going to come where Arsenal find it difficult and they haven't been able to get through it."

"You want leadership and he [Odegaard] has been the technical leader on the field but they are missing a physical leader, a leader who can get at the back of players when they are not performing at the right level," he said.

"They need a team that is more competitive. You look at the physical attributes of Manchester City and they are bigger and stronger than Arsenal.

"It's up to Mikel to address that in the summer."

100% spot on in my opinion - too lightweight and lack of leadership.

LeftfootlegendGooner
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by LeftfootlegendGooner »

Well I missed the game as was out with family and friends for food and beer and too much wine, kept up to date with the score, glad I didn't watch it and won't want to on motd either, sounded like we were shit.

Ahh well there's always next decade.

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the playing mantis
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by the playing mantis »

as much as i supported jesus return over the feather as he before injury created ops for other, patently clear that as well as CB, CM we desperatly need a 20 goal a season striker with presence. who that is i dont know, maybe vlaohivic (could have been isak perhaps), but fairly sure we wont sign a striker which holes us below the waterline from the get go. wouldnt be surprised to see vlahovic go to scum if crayon muncher leaves.

would happily sign crayon muncher however!

Retro Gunner
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by Retro Gunner »

LeftfootlegendGooner wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 3:27 pm
Well I missed the game as was out with family and friends for food and beer and too much wine, kept up to date with the score, glad I didn't watch it and won't want to on motd either, sounded like we were shit.

Ahh well there's always next decade.

Stop showing off. :lol: :wink:

Time to get the bat out and the pads on (no, not the incontinence pads!) and forget about football for a while.

LeftfootlegendGooner
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Re: Brighton BE H Sun 14th May KO 430pm

Post by LeftfootlegendGooner »

Retro Gunner wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 10:23 pm
LeftfootlegendGooner wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 3:27 pm
Well I missed the game as was out with family and friends for food and beer and too much wine, kept up to date with the score, glad I didn't watch it and won't want to on motd either, sounded like we were shit.

Ahh well there's always next decade.

Stop showing off. :lol: :wink:

Time to get the bat out and the pads on (no, not the incontinence pads!) and forget about football for a while.
:lol:

Yes mate had our first league game Saturday, fielding first got them out for 116, I bat at four but didn't even get in lol.

Got a twenty twenty game tonight and opening so getting ready for swish of the bat, let's hope I don't fuck it up like Arsenal have.

Played a twenty over game last week for the household cavalry, talking to a guy from Bradford, fuckin spud supporter, he dropped a dolly in the game but couldn't be arsed to say typical spuds, can't hold on to anything as it would have been too ironic :roll: :lol:

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