Manure H Sun 3rd Sept KO 430pm

[Thynker]

I've said many times - the refs aren't bent, they are just absolutely pathetic. The worst standard refs we've had in living memory - and by the way, Anthony Taylor who we had yesterday is supposedly the best of them. Add into the mix that there is absolutely blatant and deliberate attempts to sabotage VAR (and has been since day 1) and this is why we have a problem that is exclusively of the Premier League's own making, as these debates simply don't exist on anywhere near this scale in other sports and other leagues.

Yesterday Saka could have been sent off by another ref/VAR official
Our penalty could have been given / might not - case to argue for either
Their offside could easily have stood
There could easily have been a foul given when Rice's goal was scored
Onana was booked for time wasting, whilst we all went ape shit when Tomiyasu was against Palace

Some weeks these go our way, some weeks they don't. The issue is total lack of consistency and inability to apply perfect good technology correctly

I agree. They're not biased. Just incompetent.

[Retro Gunner]

I've said many times - the refs aren't bent, they are just absolutely pathetic. The worst standard refs we've had in living memory - and by the way, Anthony Taylor who we had yesterday is supposedly the best of them. Add into the mix that there is absolutely blatant and deliberate attempts to sabotage VAR (and has been since day 1) and this is why we have a problem that is exclusively of the Premier League's own making, as these debates simply don't exist on anywhere near this scale in other sports and other leagues.

Yesterday Saka could have been sent off by another ref/VAR official
Our penalty could have been given / might not - case to argue for either
Their offside could easily have stood
There could easily have been a foul given when Rice's goal was scored
Onana was booked for time wasting, whilst we all went ape shit when Tomiyasu was against Palace

Some weeks these go our way, some weeks they don't. The issue is total lack of consistency and inability to apply perfect good technology correctly

I’d generally agree with this SteveO, with the exception that weak referees have definitely caved in at Old Trafford and Anfield over the years. If the penalty yesterday had been awarded to Utd or Liverpool at home, then I’ve no doubt it would have stood. VAR would have simply complied with the original decision. Is that bias or cowardice? Either way, those two sides seem to get the rub of the green.

[SteveO 35]

I've said many times - the refs aren't bent, they are just absolutely pathetic. The worst standard refs we've had in living memory - and by the way, Anthony Taylor who we had yesterday is supposedly the best of them. Add into the mix that there is absolutely blatant and deliberate attempts to sabotage VAR (and has been since day 1) and this is why we have a problem that is exclusively of the Premier League's own making, as these debates simply don't exist on anywhere near this scale in other sports and other leagues.

Yesterday Saka could have been sent off by another ref/VAR official
Our penalty could have been given / might not - case to argue for either
Their offside could easily have stood
There could easily have been a foul given when Rice's goal was scored
Onana was booked for time wasting, whilst we all went ape shit when Tomiyasu was against Palace

Some weeks these go our way, some weeks they don't. The issue is total lack of consistency and inability to apply perfect good technology correctly

I’d generally agree with this SteveO, with the exception that weak referees have definitely caved in at Old Trafford and Anfield over the years. If the penalty yesterday had been awarded to Utd or Liverpool at home, then I’ve no doubt it would have stood. VAR would have simply complied with the original decision. Is that bias or cowardice? Either way, those two sides seem to get the rub of the green.

If they used technology in the way cricket does, then the ref would be removed from the situation of feeling the pressure. They do this for offside, so why not penalties. Just have the guys in an office hundreds of miles away, unswayed by the crowd, to make the call. Its fucking simple in cricket - yes, its not a no ball, ball is pitching in line, no nick off the bat, and yes hitting the stumps....please change your original decision of 'not out' to 'out'. Yesterday, a panel could easily say, we've looked at 4 angles, there is clear contact on the player, sufficient for him to go down under contact at pace, stick with your decision to award the penalty. Getting the ref sent over to the monitor just adds to the pressure - 60,000 people calling you every name under the sun, opposition managers gesticulating like fuck to the 4th official etc. 99% of the time they go to the monitor it's to change the decision anyway, so why not just take the next step and have them make the sodding call to start with

[augie]

I've said many times - the refs aren't bent, they are just absolutely pathetic. The worst standard refs we've had in living memory - and by the way, Anthony Taylor who we had yesterday is supposedly the best of them. Add into the mix that there is absolutely blatant and deliberate attempts to sabotage VAR (and has been since day 1) and this is why we have a problem that is exclusively of the Premier League's own making, as these debates simply don't exist on anywhere near this scale in other sports and other leagues.

Yesterday Saka could have been sent off by another ref/VAR official
Our penalty could have been given / might not - case to argue for either
Their offside could easily have stood
There could easily have been a foul given when Rice's goal was scored
Onana was booked for time wasting, whilst we all went ape shit when Tomiyasu was against Palace

Some weeks these go our way, some weeks they don't. The issue is total lack of consistency and inability to apply perfect good technology correctly

I’d generally agree with this SteveO, with the exception that weak referees have definitely caved in at Old Trafford and Anfield over the years. If the penalty yesterday had been awarded to Utd or Liverpool at home, then I’ve no doubt it would have stood. VAR would have simply complied with the original decision. Is that bias or cowardice? Either way, those two sides seem to get the rub of the green.

If they used technology in the way cricket does, then the ref would be removed from the situation of feeling the pressure. They do this for offside, so why not penalties. Just have the guys in an office hundreds of miles away, unswayed by the crowd, to make the call. Its fucking simple in cricket - yes, its not a no ball, ball is pitching in line, no nick off the bat, and yes hitting the stumps....please change your original decision of 'not out' to 'out'. Yesterday, a panel could easily say, we've looked at 4 angles, there is clear contact on the player, sufficient for him to go down under contact at pace, stick with your decision to award the penalty. Getting the ref sent over to the monitor just adds to the pressure - 60,000 people calling you every name under the sun, opposition managers gesticulating like fuck to the 4th official etc. 99% of the time they go to the monitor it's to change the decision anyway, so why not just take the next step and have them make the sodding call to start with

Yes there was contact, and tbt to Havertz I dont feel it was intentional on his behalf, but to me it still seems like it was his leg that made contact with the manure player and not the other way around. Too many times we have seen situations where the attacking player deliberately hangs his leg out to initiate contact (that wasnt case yesterday), so to use the phrase "contact" is setting the bar too low imo

[augie]

Btw cricket is a shit game anyway

[SteveO 35]

Btw cricket is a shit game anyway

From the man who worships the egg chasing shoulder pad wearing septics !

[Retro Gunner]

I've said many times - the refs aren't bent, they are just absolutely pathetic. The worst standard refs we've had in living memory - and by the way, Anthony Taylor who we had yesterday is supposedly the best of them. Add into the mix that there is absolutely blatant and deliberate attempts to sabotage VAR (and has been since day 1) and this is why we have a problem that is exclusively of the Premier League's own making, as these debates simply don't exist on anywhere near this scale in other sports and other leagues.

Yesterday Saka could have been sent off by another ref/VAR official
Our penalty could have been given / might not - case to argue for either
Their offside could easily have stood
There could easily have been a foul given when Rice's goal was scored
Onana was booked for time wasting, whilst we all went ape shit when Tomiyasu was against Palace

Some weeks these go our way, some weeks they don't. The issue is total lack of consistency and inability to apply perfect good technology correctly

I’d generally agree with this SteveO, with the exception that weak referees have definitely caved in at Old Trafford and Anfield over the years. If the penalty yesterday had been awarded to Utd or Liverpool at home, then I’ve no doubt it would have stood. VAR would have simply complied with the original decision. Is that bias or cowardice? Either way, those two sides seem to get the rub of the green.

If they used technology in the way cricket does, then the ref would be removed from the situation of feeling the pressure. They do this for offside, so why not penalties. Just have the guys in an office hundreds of miles away, unswayed by the crowd, to make the call. Its fucking simple in cricket - yes, its not a no ball, ball is pitching in line, no nick off the bat, and yes hitting the stumps....please change your original decision of 'not out' to 'out'. Yesterday, a panel could easily say, we've looked at 4 angles, there is clear contact on the player, sufficient for him to go down under contact at pace, stick with your decision to award the penalty. Getting the ref sent over to the monitor just adds to the pressure - 60,000 people calling you every name under the sun, opposition managers gesticulating like fuck to the 4th official etc. 99% of the time they go to the monitor it's to change the decision anyway, so why not just take the next step and have them make the sodding call to start with

Fair points made. I suppose the danger is that you risk completely undermining the refs authority and removing him from all decision making and there'll be calls for the VAR officials to get involved in yellow cards and every free kick etc. I suppose the case could be made that it's just offsides and penalties, but there's a danger of a slippery slope towards VAR controlling everything.

Of course, the difference between offsides and penalties, is that offsides are simply a case of applying lines and no human interpretation is required, but penalties, especially those like yesterdays case, involve personal opinion and interpretation.

I'm not a great follower of cricket, but it seems that there are fewer decisions to make and that VAR is only really required to decide lbw, a nick on the bat, run outs and catches that might have hit the ground first. Those can be decided without human interpretation.

[OneBardGooner]

Anyway, some "Scenes" in the Clockend....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1BUU_lEcBc

[mcdowell42]

Btw cricket is a shit game anyway

Finally

[the playing mantis]

Anyone else think Havertz was a bit better yesterday? Thought he did a good job defensively and also won the pen (which shouldn't have been overturned). Only issue was the lazy pass that led to their goal.

No he wasn't. He was anonymous apart from fcking up a glorious chance that I would back everyone on here to tuck away with his fresh air kick and he gave the ball away for their goal with a weak, lazy pass.

He fcked up the penno too. It shouldn't have been overturned given the precedent they have set, however it should have been if VAR worked properly and they hasn't set stupid precedents as it was not a pen. He should have stayed on his feet and scored neither of their players contacted him his leg brushed wan bissakas, not vice versa.

It was like playing with 10 men again just as with xhaka.

Jonathan northcroft wrote a interesting piece in the Sunday Times on havertz how he felt like arteta that he could be special but all evidence is suggesting not in this league, and that he had the lowest passing, running influence stats in out whole team in the first 3 games.

He's a dud.

[the playing mantis]

I've said many times - the refs aren't bent, they are just absolutely pathetic. The worst standard refs we've had in living memory - and by the way, Anthony Taylor who we had yesterday is supposedly the best of them. Add into the mix that there is absolutely blatant and deliberate attempts to sabotage VAR (and has been since day 1) and this is why we have a problem that is exclusively of the Premier League's own making, as these debates simply don't exist on anywhere near this scale in other sports and other leagues.

Yesterday Saka could have been sent off by another ref/VAR official
Our penalty could have been given / might not - case to argue for either
Their offside could easily have stood
There could easily have been a foul given when Rice's goal was scored
Onana was booked for time wasting, whilst we all went ape shit when Tomiyasu was against Palace

Some weeks these go our way, some weeks they don't. The issue is total lack of consistency and inability to apply perfect good technology correctly

I’d generally agree with this SteveO, with the exception that weak referees have definitely caved in at Old Trafford and Anfield over the years. If the penalty yesterday had been awarded to Utd or Liverpool at home, then I’ve no doubt it would have stood. VAR would have simply complied with the original decision. Is that bias or cowardice? Either way, those two sides seem to get the rub of the green.

If they used technology in the way cricket does, then the ref would be removed from the situation of feeling the pressure. They do this for offside, so why not penalties. Just have the guys in an office hundreds of miles away, unswayed by the crowd, to make the call. Its fucking simple in cricket - yes, its not a no ball, ball is pitching in line, no nick off the bat, and yes hitting the stumps....please change your original decision of 'not out' to 'out'. Yesterday, a panel could easily say, we've looked at 4 angles, there is clear contact on the player, sufficient for him to go down under contact at pace, stick with your decision to award the penalty. Getting the ref sent over to the monitor just adds to the pressure - 60,000 people calling you every name under the sun, opposition managers gesticulating like fuck to the 4th official etc. 99% of the time they go to the monitor it's to change the decision anyway, so why not just take the next step and have them make the sodding call to start with

Yes there was contact, and tbt to Havertz I dont feel it was intentional on his behalf, but to me it still seems like it was his leg that made contact with the manure player and not the other way around. Too many times we have seen situations where the attacking player deliberately hangs his leg out to initiate contact (that wasnt case yesterday), so to use the phrase "contact" is setting the bar too low imo

You are right in that it wasn't a penno but it should never have been overturned given the precedent of soft penalties that has been set. Only for us would it have been.

[the playing mantis]

I've said many times - the refs aren't bent, they are just absolutely pathetic. The worst standard refs we've had in living memory - and by the way, Anthony Taylor who we had yesterday is supposedly the best of them. Add into the mix that there is absolutely blatant and deliberate attempts to sabotage VAR (and has been since day 1) and this is why we have a problem that is exclusively of the Premier League's own making, as these debates simply don't exist on anywhere near this scale in other sports and other leagues.

Yesterday Saka could have been sent off by another ref/VAR official
Our penalty could have been given / might not - case to argue for either
Their offside could easily have stood
There could easily have been a foul given when Rice's goal was scored
Onana was booked for time wasting, whilst we all went ape shit when Tomiyasu was against Palace

Some weeks these go our way, some weeks they don't. The issue is total lack of consistency and inability to apply perfect good technology correctly

I’d generally agree with this SteveO, with the exception that weak referees have definitely caved in at Old Trafford and Anfield over the years. If the penalty yesterday had been awarded to Utd or Liverpool at home, then I’ve no doubt it would have stood. VAR would have simply complied with the original decision. Is that bias or cowardice? Either way, those two sides seem to get the rub of the green.

The history of scum, scousers and United being favoured and by VAR too cannot just be down to incompetence...I can see refs caving under pressure at old Trafford and Anfield but the var has no excuses and the scum example doesn't hold up as there's no pressure there at the swamp like at the other 2.

Doesn't add up.

[DB10GOONER]

VAR not bent? Getdafuckoutahere.

Anyone else remember LiVARpool* and their complete fucking cheat of a season where VAR reached hilarious levels of cheating to finally win the filthy mouser* cùnts the league ffs?

[falkirk goon]

That was fucking beautiful yesterday watched with my 8yr old gooner mad lad A few of his classmates like Manure so bragging rights for him.We didny play well but it was a great way to win especially against those bastarts who in the past have caused us so much pain..Fuck um..and all the var we've been wronged bitterness they've been spouting makes it all the sweeter

[robbo10]

Anyone else think Havertz was a bit better yesterday? Thought he did a good job defensively and also won the pen (which shouldn't have been overturned). Only issue was the lazy pass that led to their goal.

No he wasn't. He was anonymous apart from fcking up a glorious chance that I would back everyone on here to tuck away with his fresh air kick and he gave the ball away for their goal with a weak, lazy pass.

He fcked up the penno too. It shouldn't have been overturned given the precedent they have set, however it should have been if VAR worked properly and they hasn't set stupid precedents as it was not a pen. He should have stayed on his feet and scored neither of their players contacted him his leg brushed wan bissakas, not vice versa.

It was like playing with 10 men again just as with xhaka.

Jonathan northcroft wrote a interesting piece in the Sunday Times on havertz how he felt like arteta that he could be special but all evidence is suggesting not in this league, and that he had the lowest passing, running influence stats in out whole team in the first 3 games.

He's a dud.

I thought the exact same thing,a player playing with confidence runs through both defenders and get the shot away,he couldn’t wait to fall over after brushing legs in the box,he’s gash