Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[rodders999]

or Erik ten Hag has been poached by Bayern Munich

Superb

[OneBardGooner]

Piglips at it again tonight on his podcast. Blokes definitely still on the gear if he thinks this!

Rio Ferdinand: "Mikel Arteta would leave Arsenal to join Man United, 100 per cent."

"No one is saying it’s happening but if Man United in a wild dream said, ‘do you know what, Erik ten Hag, thank you’ or Erik ten Hag has been poached by Bayern Munich, and he goes there, and then Man United say top of the list is Arteta, Arteta is going in and saying to the lads, ‘listen guys, it’s been emotional but I’ve got to move, I’ve got to go.’"

The Cun.t is On Drugs... If not he fuckin' ought to be.

[OneBardGooner]

In the conte example I don't think he did fail tbh either. He had them going well but when it dawned him wtf he was doing at such a shite club he engineered it perfectly to get out as quickly as possible. He knew they were shite genetically and made a perfect escape and called them out in being shite which was hilarious.
Rather appropriately given the date nearly, all the BS points by US Wilson and Co just seem like groundhog day from the doldrums of wengers last decade.

People gaslight the role Arteta has done. He came in at the halfway mark during the 19-20 season, this was the year Liverpool and Man City got 97 and 98 points. They were miles ahead of us, 40 points better off. Liverpool and Man City have ran the PL for the past 6 years. The only manager who has come close to breaking into that club is Arteta, and he did it from a position of weakness.

Even now. The score is Liverpool 51, Man City 49, Arsenal 46. Were not miles away. Arteta is there with Klopp and Pep for the second season running. Yet people think this would be a given with any manager.

People say we should gamble and bring in someone like Conte. But to me its not a gamble, its pissing away our position. I think under Conte, we would have a lower ceiling, and a lower floor. Thats why I consider the idea of replacing Arteta with Conte to be braindead.

Would you gamble your house to win a donut? Because thats what a Conte appointment is.

1. Have our results declined since last season ?
2. Have our team performances regressed since last season ?
3. Is zinchenko a weak link at left back ?
4. Will jesus ever score enough goals to fire us to a league title ?
5. Have our best two young players (saka and martinelli) regressed this season ?
6. Has havertz been a good purchase ?
7. Would we be as high as we are in league table if manure, the chavs and the geordies were not having shit seasons ? Actually tbf to the geordies they are crippled with injuries
8. You keep referring to klopp, but seeing as he took over the victims in a worse place than we were when the cone boy was appointed, and given that the cone boy in 4 years has spent almost as much as klopp has in nine seasons, how the fcuk can you put diet pep in same bracket as klopp ??

You answer those questions honestly and there is no way you can put up a defence of cone boy

Ok I’ll answer them if Wilson won’t. They are good questions from Augie I think.

1. Not sure but if we are comparing our points total at this stage they have if you look at the total points probably so yes..
2. No Best defence in the league with the 2nd best goals scored, it’s very impressive . We look a stronger squad,too.
3. No not in the context of the results. He’s an option and probably not suited for away trips to Anfield etc however against most teams in the league it allows us to tactically deploy an extra midfield player. If it wasn’t for injuries I think he would have featured a lot less this season. It’s a more nuanced conversation than simply saying he’s a liability because he’s weaker at defending. Again we have lowest goals conceded and he’s part of an overall structure
4. Can’t see why not. City won the league with him although I would suggest another central striker should come in to offer variety
5. No way, I mean they are on fire right now and sakas numbers are amazing for a winger at this stage of the season.
6. Yes he’s been a good signing he was terrific against Newcastle causing all sorts of chaos. People need to stop comparing him to Xhaka as he’s not a direct replacement but a player who can provide us options in different areas . 7 goals so far isn’t bad for Kai
7. We’ll we have just smashed Newcastle and bar the keeper it was a strong side, you can always point behind you and suggest your success is because somebody else is screwing up but we are 3rd on our merit.
8. This is subjective really. Hard to make a comparison as klopp was more experienced when he joined and our squad had zero value add when Mikel joined. However klopp has had a bigger budget I think in his tenure and the Arsenal manager has and always will have to work to a lesser budget than our rivals, Arteta turned klopp over the other week. I’d say there isn’t much between them as managers apart from budget but it’s a subjective opinion.

Interesting questions I thought

Some of your answers are a hard read.

Jesus never hit the high scores at man City.

Zinchenko is a weak link at left back. This has been proven since his injury.

Martinelli has regressed. Less goals and assists this season.

Havertz has not been a good signing. It seems you are basing it on a few games instead of the whole season so far.

If this were Scooby Doo we'd probably try to pull that mask off to see old man Wilson

[nut flush gooner]

https://theathletic.com/5299756/2024/02 ... Id=7328447

Great article by someone who understands football, explaining how we sucked the life out of Newcastle in the first half on Saturday. Honestly, some of the analogies on here are so one-dimensional, case in point trying to compare this season with last when football is a fluid game not just with the evolvement of our team/squad but the challenges posed by our opposition. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful comparison.

[Viv Andersons Tache]

https://theathletic.com/5299756/2024/02 ... Id=7328447

Great article by someone who understands football, explaining how we sucked the life out of Newcastle in the first half on Saturday. Honestly, some of the analogies on here are so one-dimensional, case in point trying to compare this season with last when football is a fluid game not just with the evolvement of our team/squad but the challenges posed by our opposition. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful comparison.

Interesting article thanks for sharing

Raises a key point on Havertz…… “Havertz, who was again instrumental in their off-the-ball dominance” which he absolutely was and has been for some time now. It’s frustrating when he misses a chance in the 2nd half my nan would score but he has other attributes and is slowly becoming integral to the way we play. Also becoming a fan favourite with fans singing his name in the block where I sit.

When he joined I was as perplexed as anyone and would have preferred James Maddison. Thank god I ain’t the Arsenal manager then.

[augie]

https://theathletic.com/5299756/2024/02 ... Id=7328447

Great article by someone who understands football, explaining how we sucked the life out of Newcastle in the first half on Saturday. Honestly, some of the analogies on here are so one-dimensional, case in point trying to compare this season with last when football is a fluid game not just with the evolvement of our team/squad but the challenges posed by our opposition. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful comparison.

No offence to you nutflush, but that is hypocritical nonsense - those who are pro diet pep constantly compare him to emery's last season and latter wenger years, so are comparisons ok only when they boost el basque's credibility ? People spout crap like that trying to come across as on a higher intellectual level, but the reality is that all of life is fluid and people in all jobs get compared to previous years performance whether that be football management, sales, investments or even scouting All managers (not just peps cone boy) that get contract extensions do so on basis of perceived improvements and nobody kicks up then about football world comparisons, and none of diet pep fan boys want to factor in outside factors (like opposition clubs in decline) when they talk up their views on the team progress, so make up your minds and either be willing to factor in everything when comparing, or rule out comparisons altogether and stop talking about progress made from previous seasons

[Nick Nack]

https://theathletic.com/5299756/2024/02 ... Id=7328447

Great article by someone who understands football, explaining how we sucked the life out of Newcastle in the first half on Saturday. Honestly, some of the analogies on here are so one-dimensional, case in point trying to compare this season with last when football is a fluid game not just with the evolvement of our team/squad but the challenges posed by our opposition. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful comparison.

No offence to you nutflush, but that is hypocritical nonsense - those who are pro diet pep constantly compare him to emery's last season and latter wenger years, so are comparisons ok only when they boost el basque's credibility ? People spout crap like that trying to come across as on a higher intellectual level, but the reality is that all of life is fluid and people in all jobs get compared to previous years performance whether that be football management, sales, investments or even scouting All managers (not just peps cone boy) that get contract extensions do so on basis of perceived improvements and nobody kicks up then about football world comparisons, and none of diet pep fan boys want to factor in outside factors (like opposition clubs in decline) when they talk up their views on the team progress, so make up your minds and either be willing to factor in everything when comparing, or rule out comparisons altogether and stop talking about progress made from previous seasons

I'll judge him in May

[DB10GOONER]

https://theathletic.com/5299756/2024/02 ... Id=7328447

Great article by someone who understands football, explaining how we sucked the life out of Newcastle in the first half on Saturday. Honestly, some of the analogies on here are so one-dimensional, case in point trying to compare this season with last when football is a fluid game not just with the evolvement of our team/squad but the challenges posed by our opposition. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful comparison.

Sorry Nutty but that "article" is absolute horseshit written by a stat fanboy that does not understand football at all. Fucking stupid stats like "13% completed passes in the opposition half" mean literally nothing if even one of those passes leads to the match winning goal. Stats are used by idiots to try bolster strawman arguments. The fucking idiot even went on about the most cringe stupid stat of them all - expected goals..... fuck me sideways.

Nutty, you are developing a bad habit of coming on here and basically saying "such and such a WhatsApp group and such and such blog know more about football than all of you because I disagree with you".

I just don't get why you keep coming back if you hate the forum so much and look down on everyone's opinion so much?

Don't get me wrong here, you are an old established regular and will always be welcome, but I don't know why you'd want to spend time somewhere that makes you so unhappy?

[Retro Gunner]

https://theathletic.com/5299756/2024/02 ... Id=7328447

Great article by someone who understands football, explaining how we sucked the life out of Newcastle in the first half on Saturday. Honestly, some of the analogies on here are so one-dimensional, case in point trying to compare this season with last when football is a fluid game not just with the evolvement of our team/squad but the challenges posed by our opposition. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful comparison.

Sorry Nutty but that "article" is absolute horseshit written by a stat fanboy that does not understand football at all. Fucking stupid stats like "13% completed passes in the opposition half" mean literally nothing if even one of those passes leads to the match winning goal. Stats are used by idiots to try bolster strawman arguments. The fucking idiot even went on about the most cringe stupid stat of them all - expected goals..... fuck me sideways.

Nutty, you are developing a bad habit of coming on here and basically saying "such and such a WhatsApp group and such and such blog know more about football than all of you because I disagree with you".

I just don't get why you keep coming back if you hate the forum so much and look down on everyone's opinion so much?

Don't get me wrong here, you are an old established regular and will always be welcome, but I don't know why you'd want to spend time somewhere that makes you so unhappy?

I still don't understand expected fucking goals. Still, as I've said before, Arsene loved them, because he could tell us that we'd actually won games that we'd lost.

Oh and in fairness to Nutty, spending time somewhere that makes one desperately unhappy doesn't stop me coming on here.

[Stuart L (2)]

https://theathletic.com/5299756/2024/02 ... Id=7328447

Great article by someone who understands football, explaining how we sucked the life out of Newcastle in the first half on Saturday. Honestly, some of the analogies on here are so one-dimensional, case in point trying to compare this season with last when football is a fluid game not just with the evolvement of our team/squad but the challenges posed by our opposition. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful comparison.

Sorry Nutty but that "article" is absolute horseshit written by a stat fanboy that does not understand football at all. Fucking stupid stats like "13% completed passes in the opposition half" mean literally nothing if even one of those passes leads to the match winning goal. Stats are used by idiots to try bolster strawman arguments. The fucking idiot even went on about the most cringe stupid stat of them all - expected goals..... fuck me sideways.

Nutty, you are developing a bad habit of coming on here and basically saying "such and such a WhatsApp group and such and such blog know more about football than all of you because I disagree with you".

I just don't get why you keep coming back if you hate the forum so much and look down on everyone's opinion so much?

Don't get me wrong here, you are an old established regular and will always be welcome, but I don't know why you'd want to spend time somewhere that makes you so unhappy?

I still don't understand expected fucking goals. Still, as I've said before, Arsene loved them, because he could tell us that we'd actually won games that we'd lost.

Oh and in fairness to Nutty, spending time somewhere that makes one desperately unhappy doesn't stop me coming on here.

I only come on here to sample the hysteria and depression, to feel instantly better about myself

[OneBardGooner]

https://theathletic.com/5299756/2024/02 ... Id=7328447

Great article by someone who understands football, explaining how we sucked the life out of Newcastle in the first half on Saturday. Honestly, some of the analogies on here are so one-dimensional, case in point trying to compare this season with last when football is a fluid game not just with the evolvement of our team/squad but the challenges posed by our opposition. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful comparison.

Sorry Nutty but that "article" is absolute horseshit written by a stat fanboy that does not understand football at all. Fucking stupid stats like "13% completed passes in the opposition half" mean literally nothing if even one of those passes leads to the match winning goal. Stats are used by idiots to try bolster strawman arguments. The fucking idiot even went on about the most cringe stupid stat of them all - expected goals..... fuck me sideways.

Nutty, you are developing a bad habit of coming on here and basically saying "such and such a WhatsApp group and such and such blog know more about football than all of you because I disagree with you".

I just don't get why you keep coming back if you hate the forum so much and look down on everyone's opinion so much?

Don't get me wrong here, you are an old established regular and will always be welcome, but I don't know why you'd want to spend time somewhere that makes you so unhappy?

I still don't understand expected fucking goals. Still, as I've said before, Arsene loved them, because he could tell us that we'd actually won games that we'd lost.

Oh and in fairness to Nutty, spending time somewhere that makes one desperately unhappy doesn't stop me coming on here.

I only come on here to sample the hysteria and depression, to feel instantly better about myself

Huh! Superioirist!

[DB10GOONER]

https://theathletic.com/5299756/2024/02 ... Id=7328447

Great article by someone who understands football, explaining how we sucked the life out of Newcastle in the first half on Saturday. Honestly, some of the analogies on here are so one-dimensional, case in point trying to compare this season with last when football is a fluid game not just with the evolvement of our team/squad but the challenges posed by our opposition. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful comparison.

Sorry Nutty but that "article" is absolute horseshit written by a stat fanboy that does not understand football at all. Fucking stupid stats like "13% completed passes in the opposition half" mean literally nothing if even one of those passes leads to the match winning goal. Stats are used by idiots to try bolster strawman arguments. The fucking idiot even went on about the most cringe stupid stat of them all - expected goals..... fuck me sideways.

Nutty, you are developing a bad habit of coming on here and basically saying "such and such a WhatsApp group and such and such blog know more about football than all of you because I disagree with you".

I just don't get why you keep coming back if you hate the forum so much and look down on everyone's opinion so much?

Don't get me wrong here, you are an old established regular and will always be welcome, but I don't know why you'd want to spend time somewhere that makes you so unhappy?

I still don't understand expected fucking goals. Still, as I've said before, Arsene loved them, because he could tell us that we'd actually won games that we'd lost.

Oh and in fairness to Nutty, spending time somewhere that makes one desperately unhappy doesn't stop me coming on here.

But yeah fucking expected goals.... complete fucking bullshit. I mean seriously going by that I can say I expectedly fucked Brie Larson.

Stats are horseshit in football. Did you know the best midfielder to ever play for Arsenal was Legohead Denilson? Yep. According to the stat boys he had the highest pass completion stats of any Arsenal player so he must be the best.

It's like US Marty Wilson claiming the 88 PL goals or whatever the fuck it was we scored last year was better than any year we had the likes of Henry as if that made last years team in any way near as good as or better than teams that won Doubles, PL trophies, FA cups and won the league unbeaten and went an entire season unbeaten.

You couldn't make it up mate.

[wilson2.0]

https://theathletic.com/5299756/2024/02 ... Id=7328447

Great article by someone who understands football, explaining how we sucked the life out of Newcastle in the first half on Saturday. Honestly, some of the analogies on here are so one-dimensional, case in point trying to compare this season with last when football is a fluid game not just with the evolvement of our team/squad but the challenges posed by our opposition. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful comparison.

Interesting article thanks for sharing

Raises a key point on Havertz…… “Havertz, who was again instrumental in their off-the-ball dominance” which he absolutely was and has been for some time now. It’s frustrating when he misses a chance in the 2nd half my nan would score but he has other attributes and is slowly becoming integral to the way we play. Also becoming a fan favourite with fans singing his name in the block where I sit.

When he joined I was as perplexed as anyone and would have preferred James Maddison. Thank god I ain’t the Arsenal manager then.

Agreed. Haavertz off the ball movement is class. The way he checked his run for his goal against Newcastle was quality, he runs forward then shuffles and changes direction and runs behind his marker completely losing him, and at the same time is on the inside of Trippier who was coming across to cover, making for an easy tap in.

Also like his height and physicality. The days of Rosicky, Cesc, Nasri, Hleb, Wilshere, Cazorla...all good players, but lacked physicality and mobility. You look at this Arsenal team and its full of big units. Even then 'smaller' lads like Saka and Martinelli, Odegaard Trossard throw their weight around and are not push overs, whilst also being hard workers off the ball. Martinelli body checked VVD in the Liverpool game which contributed to the VVD-Allison fuck up. If that were Walcott, I doubt he body checks VVD enough to trigger an error. Odegaard never stops pressing. Ozil good he he was, had a terrible engine.

That old cliche of 'getting up Arsenal' doesn't really ring true anymore. Got to give credit to Arteta for making us big and strong again. Cant bully this Arsenal physically, and you cant outrun us.

[nut flush gooner]

https://theathletic.com/5299756/2024/02 ... Id=7328447

Great article by someone who understands football, explaining how we sucked the life out of Newcastle in the first half on Saturday. Honestly, some of the analogies on here are so one-dimensional, case in point trying to compare this season with last when football is a fluid game not just with the evolvement of our team/squad but the challenges posed by our opposition. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful comparison.

Sorry Nutty but that "article" is absolute horseshit written by a stat fanboy that does not understand football at all. Fucking stupid stats like "13% completed passes in the opposition half" mean literally nothing if even one of those passes leads to the match winning goal. Stats are used by idiots to try bolster strawman arguments. The fucking idiot even went on about the most cringe stupid stat of them all - expected goals..... fuck me sideways.

Nutty, you are developing a bad habit of coming on here and basically saying "such and such a WhatsApp group and such and such blog know more about football than all of you because I disagree with you".

I just don't get why you keep coming back if you hate the forum so much and look down on everyone's opinion so much?

Don't get me wrong here, you are an old established regular and will always be welcome, but I don't know why you'd want to spend time somewhere that makes you so unhappy?

There isn't a consensus on any medium that I chat on especially Whatsapp, but with Havertz I am truly glass half full. He had an awful start, then finally found himself in December and he is now making a meaningful contribution to the team.

Yeah he should score more goals, that miss versus Newcastle in the 2nd half was shocking, but he isn't as bad as some of you lot make him out to be. He was a vital cog in the wheel in that first half demolition of Newcastle. His off the ball work was underrated.

And Stuart hit the nail right on the head!

[DB10GOONER]

https://theathletic.com/5299756/2024/02 ... Id=7328447

Great article by someone who understands football, explaining how we sucked the life out of Newcastle in the first half on Saturday. Honestly, some of the analogies on here are so one-dimensional, case in point trying to compare this season with last when football is a fluid game not just with the evolvement of our team/squad but the challenges posed by our opposition. It's nearly impossible to make any meaningful comparison.

Interesting article thanks for sharing

Raises a key point on Havertz…… “Havertz, who was again instrumental in their off-the-ball dominance” which he absolutely was and has been for some time now. It’s frustrating when he misses a chance in the 2nd half my nan would score but he has other attributes and is slowly becoming integral to the way we play. Also becoming a fan favourite with fans singing his name in the block where I sit.

When he joined I was as perplexed as anyone and would have preferred James Maddison. Thank god I ain’t the Arsenal manager then.

Agreed. Haavertz off the ball movement is class. The way he checked his run for his goal against Newcastle was quality, he runs forward then shuffles and changes direction and runs behind his marker completely losing him, and at the same time is on the inside of Trippier who was coming across to cover, making for an easy tap in.

Also like his height and physicality. The days of Rosicky, Cesc, Nasri, Hleb, Wilshere, Cazorla...all good players, but lacked physicality and mobility. You look at this Arsenal team and its full of big units. Even then 'smaller' lads like Saka and Martinelli, Odegaard Trossard throw their weight around and are not push overs, whilst also being hard workers off the ball. Martinelli body checked VVD in the Liverpool game which contributed to the VVD-Allison fuck up. If that were Walcott, I doubt he body checks VVD enough to trigger an error. Odegaard never stops pressing. Ozil good he he was, had a terrible engine.

That old cliche of 'getting up Arsenal' doesn't really ring true anymore. Got to give credit to Arteta for making us big and strong again. Cant bully this Arsenal physically, and you cant outrun us.

I mostly agree with that, although I think you are over rating the effect of Havertz movement off the ball, but there are two massive errors there mate.

First, both Fabregas and Cazorla were extremely mobile players. As for physicality, sure they didn't go around clanging people but they were also no pushovers and gave as good as they got. Both had low centres of gravity and were stronger than they looked.

As for Ozil, during his time with the club have a guess which player was in the top 2 of players that covered the most miles per season at Arsenal? He also covered more distance per game than most other PL players in his position. Yep, I know they are stats but they are specifically relevant as you said he had a "terrible engine". Thats a myth perpetuated by people that have little understanding of the game. He didn't have a terrible engine. He had a terrible attitude and awful body language which made him look disintetested and lazy. Big difference.