http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=684
usual thread starter… I guess it’s all about perspective really. The final mention about Chelsea is a response to something I wrote recently about people who want Arsenal to match Abramovich’s outlay and buy star names the club cannot afford. Those who believe Alisher Usmanov is going to run Arsenal at a loss of £80 million a year or whatever it is have not had a close look at the way Usmanov runs the other concerns he buys into. But that’s another debate to this one.
Sadly, when you buy a season ticket, there is no guarantee that the club will deliver trophies in return. But do I look forward to the season? Yes. And I guess, on that level I am guilty of optimism. I do believe we have a chance of winning silverware this season. More so than a year ago, although even then, I was prepared to wait and see.
Is it possible that your attitude towards Arsenal mirrors your outlook on life generally? Or is it different when it comes to your football team?
Are you a pessimist or optimist Gooner? (29/7)
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highburyJD
- Posts: 4982
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:36 pm
- Location: Highbury
I'm an optimist, my response
So how does a pessimist’s view of the coming season compare to an optimist’s?
OPTIMIST- We have the best stadium in the football league and we make £3 million a match.
PESSIMIST - We have the best stadium in the football league and we make £3 million a match, but the atmosphere could be much better and people leave 10-15 minutes early. (I really really, really miss the old North Bank pre-1992) plus we can’t spend the £3 million because we owe so much interest.
JD financially the new stadium IMO was a necessity
and we all remember Highbury as a conglomeration of all our personal experiences there
I'm gutted I'll never take my son there
but realistically it was going in the direction of the emirates for quite a while
the atmosphere in our last season at highbury was unbelievable on many occasions
I'd call that a dead cat bounce
OPTIMIST - We play the most attractive football in the league and it is a joy to watch.
PESSIMIST - We play the most attractive football in the league and it is a joy to watch, but often there is no end product and so we drop points, which ultimately cost us the league title.
JD we play the most attractive football in the league
I've never known a season ever where so many key refereeing decisions went against us
OPTIMIST- Arsene Wenger is one of the best managers in the world and he has an uncanny knack of finding talent.
PESSIMIST - Arsene Wenger is one of the best managers in the world and he has an uncanny knack of finding talent, but there is a need at times to buy quality players to improve the team. We don’t seem to have any money/won’t spend any money and we need the minimum of a goalkeeper, a central defender and a replacement for Flamini (who was arguably the second player to put on the team list last season after Cesc). We also still have that clown who thinks he’s as good as Henry and should be shipped out ASAP and replaced with a quality striker.
JD - if we buy Shaven Gay that can almost be enough. imo one of the very best keepers the prem has known (and he's Oirish - nice to have a Republic international in the team again)
THE best sweeper/keeper, he'll change the way we defend pushing kolo and gallas forward.
Flamini was immense last season - but its a job that song can do
he was brilliant in the CC (pity we lost diara)
also defensive midfielder is the type of job that gets undervalued
I think good scouts can pick up quality in that position relatively cheaply
Adebyeye if we can get some $£$£
RVP & Dudu 1st choice when both available
bendtner, vela, walcott, simpson to fill in
sell sell sell
Wilshere is gonna be better than Gazza
OPTIMIST - Arsene knows.
PESSIMIST - Eboue.
JD - we can challenge, the story that we faded due to fitness isnt borne out by stats. team was making just as many sprints + covering same total distance at the end of the season
we where very unlucky
u can spend loads and stil be unlucky (chelski)
I agree with the curret financial strategies
they seem prudent and we can still challenge with wenger at the helm
the opportunity cost of spending now and sorting debt/stadium etc later
is HUGE
we can do this because we have wenger
I cant think of many managers ever who could replicate it
our only chance to upsize is with wenger at the helm
we can permanently promote ourselves to world top 4
rather than spending loads a la Leeds in an incremental battle against financial doping and foriegn arranged/managed huge club debt
So how does a pessimist’s view of the coming season compare to an optimist’s?
OPTIMIST- We have the best stadium in the football league and we make £3 million a match.
PESSIMIST - We have the best stadium in the football league and we make £3 million a match, but the atmosphere could be much better and people leave 10-15 minutes early. (I really really, really miss the old North Bank pre-1992) plus we can’t spend the £3 million because we owe so much interest.
JD financially the new stadium IMO was a necessity
and we all remember Highbury as a conglomeration of all our personal experiences there
I'm gutted I'll never take my son there
but realistically it was going in the direction of the emirates for quite a while
the atmosphere in our last season at highbury was unbelievable on many occasions
I'd call that a dead cat bounce
OPTIMIST - We play the most attractive football in the league and it is a joy to watch.
PESSIMIST - We play the most attractive football in the league and it is a joy to watch, but often there is no end product and so we drop points, which ultimately cost us the league title.
JD we play the most attractive football in the league
I've never known a season ever where so many key refereeing decisions went against us
OPTIMIST- Arsene Wenger is one of the best managers in the world and he has an uncanny knack of finding talent.
PESSIMIST - Arsene Wenger is one of the best managers in the world and he has an uncanny knack of finding talent, but there is a need at times to buy quality players to improve the team. We don’t seem to have any money/won’t spend any money and we need the minimum of a goalkeeper, a central defender and a replacement for Flamini (who was arguably the second player to put on the team list last season after Cesc). We also still have that clown who thinks he’s as good as Henry and should be shipped out ASAP and replaced with a quality striker.
JD - if we buy Shaven Gay that can almost be enough. imo one of the very best keepers the prem has known (and he's Oirish - nice to have a Republic international in the team again)
THE best sweeper/keeper, he'll change the way we defend pushing kolo and gallas forward.
Flamini was immense last season - but its a job that song can do
he was brilliant in the CC (pity we lost diara)
also defensive midfielder is the type of job that gets undervalued
I think good scouts can pick up quality in that position relatively cheaply
Adebyeye if we can get some $£$£
RVP & Dudu 1st choice when both available
bendtner, vela, walcott, simpson to fill in
sell sell sell
Wilshere is gonna be better than Gazza
OPTIMIST - Arsene knows.
PESSIMIST - Eboue.
JD - we can challenge, the story that we faded due to fitness isnt borne out by stats. team was making just as many sprints + covering same total distance at the end of the season
we where very unlucky
u can spend loads and stil be unlucky (chelski)
I agree with the curret financial strategies
they seem prudent and we can still challenge with wenger at the helm
the opportunity cost of spending now and sorting debt/stadium etc later
is HUGE
we can do this because we have wenger
I cant think of many managers ever who could replicate it
our only chance to upsize is with wenger at the helm
we can permanently promote ourselves to world top 4
rather than spending loads a la Leeds in an incremental battle against financial doping and foriegn arranged/managed huge club debt
Good article, much better than that "Don't know what you're doing" rubbish.
The problem with being an Arsenal fan in the Wenger age is the summer. Not only are we deprived for almost three months of the scintilating and creative football AW rolls out year after year, but every summer we are also subjected to maximum bullshit from the tabloid transfer rumour rollercoaster and the vultures of clubs with worse coaches but more money. This time of year breeds pessimism in the typical Arsenal fan. I can understand much of the pessimist's point of view, and I agree with many of the criticisms, but this article (good as it is) wouldn't have been written a few months ago.
Perhaps it's just the way we're all wired, but I am generally an optimist, and for all of the problems at Arsenal, I see much more to be optimistic about:
1. We have one of the best coaches in world football (and in my opinion, the best, full-stop). While we've got him, we're in a great position.
2. Once the transitionary phase is done (in a year or two), the financial base of our club will be revolutionised, without having risked a repetition of Leeds, following the debt-based example of United, Cheslea, Liverpool etc or the demise of various smaller clubs who suffered after they built stadiums (Southampton, Leicester etc). Then we won't be dependent on Wenger's brilliance, even if we continue to benefit from it.
3. While we need to add a couple of players (starting with a big centre-back, if an adequate candidate can be found), we have a very good first team squad. It's not perfect (I would still love to have a new keeper in, but that isn't going to happen) but as we saw last year, the real magic of the squad is in the way it knits together. The team really is greater than the sum of its parts. And the individual talent of Fabregas, Walcott, van Persie, Eduardo, Sagna, Clichy, Toure and even Mr Greedy will stand us in good stead this year too. I also think both Nasri and Ramsey will make a big impact this season. Comparing our squad with those of our rivals, I think it's on a par with United's and Chelsea's (something many wouldn't accept), but it is much better than Liverpool's or any other club's.
4. It's a cliche, but the young players in the reserves are fantastic: Vela, Wilshere, Randall, Nortdveit, Lansbury, Coquelin and Gibbs will all be pressing for the first team, and the likes of Barazite, Sunu, Merida and Simpson will continue to develop. And they are all steeped in Wenger's great football, which is one of the main reasons players of the calibre of Nasri and Ramsey chose to join us.
5. Losing Flamini was a loss, but which of us really thinks shipping out Hleb (looking for his last career payday) or the aged and increasingly ineffective Gilberto and Lehmann was a bad thing?
6. We can't be affected by bad luck as much this season as last, we just can't! The number of decisions that went against us was shocking, and then there were the injuries. I acknowledge how well United played last season, but unlike Arsenal (and Chelsea) they didn't have to call on their squad players due to injuries and ACN duties - they could just rotate players when it suited them. Even Fergie acknowledged this, when he said one of the most serious injuries Arsenal suffered last year was Denilson, because it hit when Fabregas should have been given a rest.
7. I think many of the players will come into the season with a "Fuck you" attitude, for all of their great football they will feel they threw the league away last season and that they've got something to prove. That sort of determination will serve us well.
So, things look pretty good to me. But we, the fans, have a part to play. Let's stay in the ground for the whole 90 minutes, support the players on the pitch (even Eboue), show Wenger that we believe in him, perhaps even sing the odd song or hang the odd banner, and above all drive our team on.
The problem with being an Arsenal fan in the Wenger age is the summer. Not only are we deprived for almost three months of the scintilating and creative football AW rolls out year after year, but every summer we are also subjected to maximum bullshit from the tabloid transfer rumour rollercoaster and the vultures of clubs with worse coaches but more money. This time of year breeds pessimism in the typical Arsenal fan. I can understand much of the pessimist's point of view, and I agree with many of the criticisms, but this article (good as it is) wouldn't have been written a few months ago.
Perhaps it's just the way we're all wired, but I am generally an optimist, and for all of the problems at Arsenal, I see much more to be optimistic about:
1. We have one of the best coaches in world football (and in my opinion, the best, full-stop). While we've got him, we're in a great position.
2. Once the transitionary phase is done (in a year or two), the financial base of our club will be revolutionised, without having risked a repetition of Leeds, following the debt-based example of United, Cheslea, Liverpool etc or the demise of various smaller clubs who suffered after they built stadiums (Southampton, Leicester etc). Then we won't be dependent on Wenger's brilliance, even if we continue to benefit from it.
3. While we need to add a couple of players (starting with a big centre-back, if an adequate candidate can be found), we have a very good first team squad. It's not perfect (I would still love to have a new keeper in, but that isn't going to happen) but as we saw last year, the real magic of the squad is in the way it knits together. The team really is greater than the sum of its parts. And the individual talent of Fabregas, Walcott, van Persie, Eduardo, Sagna, Clichy, Toure and even Mr Greedy will stand us in good stead this year too. I also think both Nasri and Ramsey will make a big impact this season. Comparing our squad with those of our rivals, I think it's on a par with United's and Chelsea's (something many wouldn't accept), but it is much better than Liverpool's or any other club's.
4. It's a cliche, but the young players in the reserves are fantastic: Vela, Wilshere, Randall, Nortdveit, Lansbury, Coquelin and Gibbs will all be pressing for the first team, and the likes of Barazite, Sunu, Merida and Simpson will continue to develop. And they are all steeped in Wenger's great football, which is one of the main reasons players of the calibre of Nasri and Ramsey chose to join us.
5. Losing Flamini was a loss, but which of us really thinks shipping out Hleb (looking for his last career payday) or the aged and increasingly ineffective Gilberto and Lehmann was a bad thing?
6. We can't be affected by bad luck as much this season as last, we just can't! The number of decisions that went against us was shocking, and then there were the injuries. I acknowledge how well United played last season, but unlike Arsenal (and Chelsea) they didn't have to call on their squad players due to injuries and ACN duties - they could just rotate players when it suited them. Even Fergie acknowledged this, when he said one of the most serious injuries Arsenal suffered last year was Denilson, because it hit when Fabregas should have been given a rest.
7. I think many of the players will come into the season with a "Fuck you" attitude, for all of their great football they will feel they threw the league away last season and that they've got something to prove. That sort of determination will serve us well.
So, things look pretty good to me. But we, the fans, have a part to play. Let's stay in the ground for the whole 90 minutes, support the players on the pitch (even Eboue), show Wenger that we believe in him, perhaps even sing the odd song or hang the odd banner, and above all drive our team on.
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Sammy Mooner
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:23 pm
- Location: The superior end of 7 Sisters
OPTIMISTIC
Because when I started watching Arsenal I waited 15 years for a trophy - now they are like buses - another one will be along any season now.
OPTIMISTIC
Because when I started watching Arsenal our league positions were: 5th, 5th, 12th, 3rd, 13th, 11th, 10th, 7th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 7th, 9th, 4th, 12th - Now everyone moans if we don't win the League and claims that 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd is a failure
OPTIMISTIC
When I started watching Arsenal we conceded 60, 70 or 80 league goals a season, every season. When was the last time that happened?
OPTOMISTIC
When I started watching Arsenal having a couple of Northern Ireland defenders was considered a big deal. Now fans moan about Gallas.
PESSIMISTIC
Why would I be - I know we'll be in contention, I know we'll score more than we'll concede over the season, I know I'll see us score some brilliant goals, I know I'll be watching some world class footballers, some very classy youngsters & Eboue? Why would I be pessimistic?
Because when I started watching Arsenal I waited 15 years for a trophy - now they are like buses - another one will be along any season now.
OPTIMISTIC
Because when I started watching Arsenal our league positions were: 5th, 5th, 12th, 3rd, 13th, 11th, 10th, 7th, 8th, 13th, 14th, 7th, 9th, 4th, 12th - Now everyone moans if we don't win the League and claims that 3rd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd is a failure
OPTIMISTIC
When I started watching Arsenal we conceded 60, 70 or 80 league goals a season, every season. When was the last time that happened?
OPTOMISTIC
When I started watching Arsenal having a couple of Northern Ireland defenders was considered a big deal. Now fans moan about Gallas.
PESSIMISTIC
Why would I be - I know we'll be in contention, I know we'll score more than we'll concede over the season, I know I'll see us score some brilliant goals, I know I'll be watching some world class footballers, some very classy youngsters & Eboue? Why would I be pessimistic?
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Jimmythecuckoo
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:30 pm
I am sorry to say that my cup is always half empty.
In the old blogging days of "ArsenalTalk" it was me that used to think we would lose every week, whilst Mystic the co-ed would think every match was a shoe-in victory.
Whether it is a defence mechanism to avoide being disapointed or not I don't know.
The other thing is that I am always more confident at the stadium that watching on tv. I have no idea why that would be.
In the old blogging days of "ArsenalTalk" it was me that used to think we would lose every week, whilst Mystic the co-ed would think every match was a shoe-in victory.
Whether it is a defence mechanism to avoide being disapointed or not I don't know.
The other thing is that I am always more confident at the stadium that watching on tv. I have no idea why that would be.
It's probably psychological Jimmy - You have the feeling that you can influence things when you're inside the stadium. You also can see and hear everything whereas on TV you can't and on radio again less.Jimmythecuckoo wrote:
The other thing is that I am always more confident at the stadium that watching on tv. I have no idea why that would be.
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QuartzGooner
- Posts: 14474
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 pm
- Location: London
REALIST
It is looking good on the pitch ...but without a really good dynamic ball winner in the middle, and probably a new centre back, we are not looking like we will win the league.
Off the pitch, so far as good as can be expected considering we built a new stadium but now is the time to bring in a new face to the board and bringing in some new capital without selling the club lock stock and barrel.
It is looking good on the pitch ...but without a really good dynamic ball winner in the middle, and probably a new centre back, we are not looking like we will win the league.
Off the pitch, so far as good as can be expected considering we built a new stadium but now is the time to bring in a new face to the board and bringing in some new capital without selling the club lock stock and barrel.
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Sammy Mooner
- Posts: 203
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:23 pm
- Location: The superior end of 7 Sisters
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highburyJD
- Posts: 4982
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:36 pm
- Location: Highbury
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6OONER PETE
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:50 am
pessimist or optimist
Nice one Sammy Mooner. I should be as optimistic as you because we are now regarded as one of the top four. Years ago it used to be the "Big six" (the two Mancs, the two scousers, and the two North London teams).Look what has happened to three of those teams now. Like you say though, although we were supposed to be one of the big teams it was often years before we won anything.
However, I suppose my expectancy level has gone up and like a lot of supporters whatever we win, it's always nice to win more! It's just such a great feeling to win stuff!
But imagine supporting the Spuds or Man City or Forest or Derby. It doesn' bear thinking about.
The fact we always finish in the top four should be enough. But somehow it isn't.
I'm still looking forward to the season as usual,however.
On a different but not too disimilar note. I'm reading the rather amusing "an utterly impartial history of Britain " by John O'Farrell (not a football book). I've just got to 1400 and he is writing about a knight called
Hotspur. I quote "Tottenham Hotspur take their name from him....and he may well have still been playing when they last won the league".
Nice one.
However, I suppose my expectancy level has gone up and like a lot of supporters whatever we win, it's always nice to win more! It's just such a great feeling to win stuff!
But imagine supporting the Spuds or Man City or Forest or Derby. It doesn' bear thinking about.
The fact we always finish in the top four should be enough. But somehow it isn't.
I'm still looking forward to the season as usual,however.
On a different but not too disimilar note. I'm reading the rather amusing "an utterly impartial history of Britain " by John O'Farrell (not a football book). I've just got to 1400 and he is writing about a knight called
Hotspur. I quote "Tottenham Hotspur take their name from him....and he may well have still been playing when they last won the league".
Nice one.
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highburyJD
- Posts: 4982
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:36 pm
- Location: Highbury
I agree with Sammy Mooner about the bad old days.But those were the days when teams like Man City,Derby,Villa and Forest could win the championship and for the last two the European cup.But times have changed and so have expectations.From 1974 to 1987 a top five place in the league and an FA cup final was seen as success.But George Graham and Arsene Wenger have changed that.We are now a team that is expected to win things.So while the Arsenal teams of the past could go 18 years without winning the league between 1953 and 1971 and then 1971 and 1989 that cannot and must not happen again.We are now a major power not just in England but also in Europe but we have got to have major trophies to show for this not just a brand new stadium that sells out every week and a team that plays beautiful football.
