THE WENGER THREAD

[amazonas]

So what you're saying is yes to the glory of his first 10 years even though it leads to the potential ruin of everything Arsenal stands/stood for, gone is club spirit and so forth. Other managers existed at the time who might have done a good job here. I don't care if he deserves any credit for back then, what he has given in return with his arrogance to the club and fans weighs much heavier. It's difficult to take pride in being a goner these days based on the current limbo

#fuckoffWenger

[officepest]

The football league is investigating Leicester's finances for the 2013/14 season amid concerns they may have cheated financial fair play rules (guardian)

Well there you have it, no wonder we can't compete. Cheating bastards

Strange how the story is breaking now; I thought it was pretty common knowledge that they (just like Bournemouth last season) totally cooked the books to get around FFP?

From their point of view, why not do it? Who gives a fuck about a paltry fine when compared to the daft riches on offer in the PL?

Arsene will be happy though; another nasty little doped club about which to moan.

[augie]

Yep. That would've been great, huh? No Doubles in 98 and 02. No Invincibles.

Look, I want him gone too but let's not turn into revisionist historians here. The man delivered the goods from 1996 to 2006. 10 years. The fact the last 10 years have been so bad should not distract from those first 10.

true but with hindsight even in those first 10 years a lot of his failings were already surfacing.
he had 10 years of failure in Europe behind him already in 2006, he was never able to win back to back league titles when really our only rivals at the time was Man United and if you look at our points totals he has only ever managed to get above 80 points four times at Arsenal. Some of our points totals in recent years compare favourably with his first 10 years, yet because of the increased competition, this has not resulted in any title challenges.

To the day I die, nothing will convince me that wenger was an integral part of those early successes - he was the luckiest b*stard alive to inherit the best defence in the history of English football, who not only gave the team a platform to build their attacking system around, but it also provided the team with real leadership at key moments (remember the players meeting after the Blackburn debacle in 97/98 season ?). Yes he added world class players in PV4, anelka and overmars, but they were the icing on the cake rather than the cake itself imo

I think the fact that he has NEVER won a European trophy of any kind (either with us or Monaco) speaks volumes about his ability to manage at the very top level and frankly should be a major source of embarrassment to the c.unt

Sorry but I think you are letting your hatred of him cloud your thoughts here tbh. Why didn't GG win a Double or go unbeaten with that same defence? (Yes I know he came close in 91 but close isn't actually doing it is it). Why was that same defence finishing mid table in GG's last couple of seasons and why did it become little more than a cup side?

No one in their right mind would say Wenger didn't benefit from inheriting that defence, but to deny he added anything to it is ludicrous. He brought in Vieira and Petit - Adams and Keown have both stated the addition of those two players extended the lifespan of that defence as they took so much work off them.

Nail on head!

Augie, your absolute hatred for Wenger does cloud your judgment on him to some degree. You've admitted that yourself in the past. It was Wenger that assembled most of the Invincibles and he deserves great credit for that.
There are a lot of managers that have won the CL and some are not that good tbh (Di Matteo) but even the great Sir Alex, Busby, Paisley, Iain Dowie (Okay, maybe stretching it a bit there ) and the special Maureen have never taken a team through an entire league campaign undefeated. You can't re-write history to suit the modern situation and your own feelings mate.

And for the second time today I am being misquoted -

1. I said that he wasn't an INTEGRAL part - I didn't say that he played no part but merely said that he wasn't the main factor

2. I said early successes and never mentioned the invincibles or any of the latter successes ? He benefitted hugely from having the defence also tutor the likes of sol, kolo, lauren and the phone loving judas c.unt, and to some degree it extended the life of a mentality that has long since disappeared from the club cos wenger hasn't got it and doesn't know how to instil it in players

[officepest]

We’re really talking about two different beasts with Wenger. In the first half of his reign he only really had the similarly tactically limited fergie as competition, so could concentrate his energies against one man.

He also had a unique access to the previously largely untapped French market, and he cashed-in pretty well. Throw in a proper football man in Dein to help him and it was pretty well set up for him.

As soon as the landscape changed Wenger has gradually shown himself to be simply not up for it. He cannot handle having so many clubs on his coattails; he has been completely left behind in tactics and thinking and seems to think throwing obscene amounts of money at a bang-average squad will somehow yield dividends, in spite of years of evidence to the contrary.

He’s a man out of time, yet his ego won’t allow him to see the blindingly obvious.

[Gunner Rob]

Wenger has had three big pieces of luck at Arsenal

1) the team that he inherited from George Graham
2) being able to pretend that he is keeping Arsenal at the top level by being in the Champions League each season.
3) having a passive fan base not willing to question him enough

Henry Winter last night stated that the Arsenal fans should protest more.
I detect in that statement a sense of frustration from him. I think he knows that he as a journalist should have done more to uncover the truth about Wenger, but it has taken him until this season as the protests and banners have FINALLY started at Arsenal, for him to do some digging around the club.

[amazonas]

We’re really talking about two different beasts with Wenger. In the first half of his reign he only really had the similarly tactically limited fergie as competition, so could concentrate his energies against one man.

He also had a unique access to the previously largely untapped French market, and he cashed-in pretty well. Throw in a proper football man in Dein to help him and it was pretty well set up for him.

As soon as the landscape changed Wenger has gradually shown himself to be simply not up for it. He cannot handle having so many clubs on his coattails; he has been completely left behind in tactics and thinking and seems to think throwing obscene amounts of money at a bang-average squad will somehow yield dividends, in spite of years of evidence to the contrary.

He’s a man out of time, yet his ego won’t allow him to see the blindingly obvious.

You don't know what's going on
You've been here for far too long
...
Well, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
Yes, you are left out
Out of there without a doubt
Cause baby, baby, baby, you're out of time

[SPUDMASHER]

I agree with that............he is definitely out of his time.

He had an initial period when his tactics and innovative approach to health and nutrition set him apart from anyone else. Once they all caught up though he couldn't continue to stand out as he had before. it is a classic example of failure by being stubborn and refusing to adapt to the outside environment. Now we find that other clubs are not only on a level with us but several have progressed further. That's unacceptable in any business, and this is a business (even though I hate the fact that it is). You only need to look at Nokia to see what standing still can do to your business. Yes, we have seen unprecedented amounts of investment in some clubs that has definitely changed the Paradigm but you cannot throw that accusation in the direction of Leicester City (and to some degree the Scum). We have fallen behind because we are still training as if it is 2001.

I want him to go but I also know that he isn't going anywhere until he is ready to. No amount of pressure from fans is going to change that despite what many think. It should affect it and at most clubs it would but this isn't most clubs. We have a manager that is somehow delivering what the owner wants, continued CL windfalls! Whilst that remains the case he is going nowhere and we may as well get used to it.

The saddest thing about this whole charade is that it has set supporters against each other. We now have two distinct groups, the AKB's and the WOB's. I remember when we only had the one group and we called ourselves Gooners. Right now I think it is more important that we try to restore that than bitch about something we can neither influence or directly affect!

[augie]

I agree with that............he is definitely out of his time.

He had an initial period when his tactics and innovative approach to health and nutrition set him apart from anyone else. Once they all caught up though he couldn't continue to stand out as he had before. it is a classic example of failure by being stubborn and refusing to adapt to the outside environment. Now we find that other clubs are not only on a level with us but several have progressed further. That's unacceptable in any business, and this is a business (even though I hate the fact that it is). You only need to look at Nokia to see what standing still can do to your business. Yes, we have seen unprecedented amounts of investment in some clubs that has definitely changed the Paradigm but you cannot throw that accusation in the direction of Leicester City (and to some degree the Scum). We have fallen behind because we are still training as if it is 2001.

I want him to go but I also know that he isn't going anywhere until he is ready to. No amount of pressure from fans is going to change that despite what many think. It should affect it and at most clubs it would but this isn't most clubs. We have a manager that is somehow delivering what the owner wants, continued CL windfalls! Whilst that remains the case he is going nowhere and we may as well get used to it.

The saddest thing about this whole charade is that it has set supporters against each other. We now have two distinct groups, the AKB's and the WOB's. I remember when we only had the one group and we called ourselves Gooners. Right now I think it is more important that we try to restore that than bitch about something we can neither influence or directly affect!

Is the champions league as vital to the club as it once was ? IF ozil and/or sanchez f.ucks off this summer, it will show the footballing world that just being in the competition is not success and is certainly not enough to appease the ambitious top quality players - if you were an agent of a top player, would you allow him to sign for a club that cannot hold onto the top players anymore ? How important is the revenue either ? Next season Swansea (for example) will earn more by being in the premier league, than any of the top european teams will get for competing in the champions league

[amazonas]

I agree with that............he is definitely out of his time.

He had an initial period when his tactics and innovative approach to health and nutrition set him apart from anyone else. Once they all caught up though he couldn't continue to stand out as he had before. it is a classic example of failure by being stubborn and refusing to adapt to the outside environment. Now we find that other clubs are not only on a level with us but several have progressed further. That's unacceptable in any business, and this is a business (even though I hate the fact that it is). You only need to look at Nokia to see what standing still can do to your business. Yes, we have seen unprecedented amounts of investment in some clubs that has definitely changed the Paradigm but you cannot throw that accusation in the direction of Leicester City (and to some degree the Scum). We have fallen behind because we are still training as if it is 2001.

I want him to go but I also know that he isn't going anywhere until he is ready to. No amount of pressure from fans is going to change that despite what many think. It should affect it and at most clubs it would but this isn't most clubs. We have a manager that is somehow delivering what the owner wants, continued CL windfalls! Whilst that remains the case he is going nowhere and we may as well get used to it.

The saddest thing about this whole charade is that it has set supporters against each other. We now have two distinct groups, the AKB's and the WOB's. I remember when we only had the one group and we called ourselves Gooners. Right now I think it is more important that we try to restore that than bitch about something we can neither influence or directly affect!

I don't believe fan pressure couldn't change things. The problem is there has been close to nil pressure if you compare Arsenal to other European clubs. One or two banners around is definitely not gonna change things, no, but united or larger fan pressure would likely.

Secondly, I think the most important thing is to be united yes but to be united behind the cause of getting rid of him.

[augie]

I have no doubt that serious fan protests would change things within the club (although whether it would force enough change I don't know) - wenker doesn't like being challenged and would be in no doubt that we are no longer willing to accept this bullshit. I think that serious fan protest would also awaken the board - vocal protests inside and outside the bowl, fan fighting inside and outside, and empty seats aplenty would certainly create alarm in the boardroom and might make them realise that is no longer a minority who want him out

[Clash]

For me Wenger gets too much credit for his first 10 years at the club. That’s not to say he doesn’t deserve any credit but it was not all about him.

Saying that, I do not think things could have happened the way they did without him. But you could say that about a number of other individuals too. Bergkamp and Henry for instance. Adams and Keown. David Dein. And of course George Graham. Wenger benefited hugely from the work Graham did … just as Graham benefitted from the work Don Howe did. The difference is Graham is more likely to acknowledge that than Wenger is. Wenger thinks he built the club ffs. I’ve never heard Graham (or anyone else for that matter) make such an outrageous claim.

Also there is no doubt those early Wenger years and the success are connected to the mess we are in now though. You can’t separate the two. As Falkirk said a few days back, the Invincible season made Wenger think he was invincible.

Knowing what I know now, if I could go back and change anything I would have Johan Cruyff taking the Arsenal managers job in 1996. I think we would have won trophies, playing great football and would right now still be a great football club playing in a great football stadium.

[Ikechukwu1]

I see some people are comparing Lord A-hole going unbeaten favourably to other managers like Mourinhk etc. Still living in the past I see! Why is this myth still perpetuated? So what if Mourinho, Pep and Fergie never went a season unbeaten? AVB went a season unbeaten with Porto FFS.

If you go a season unbeaten, you win one trophy.

If you win the league, your cup and the CL; you win Three.

But yes. I'm sure Fergie and his umpteen league titles, Jose with his two Trebles, and Pep with his unprecedented clean sweep six trophies over a season; would trade it all in a heartbeat for an unbeaten season.

Just like I'm sure someone who invented something remarkable that made him £2million, would definitely never trade that in for a £15m lottery win.

Frankly embarrassing comparing an unbeaten one-off season to multiples years of success. If anything, 04 shows that it was a jammy one-off thing Wenker will never come close to replicating ever again.

Perhaps he should focus on bettering crisp-money Leicester first

[Ikechukwu1]

I also have to laugh at the notion that fan pressure won't achieve anything. A line AKBs often like to roll out in a bid to dissuade people from protests against Master Fuckwit. I'll repeat what I've always said: Arsenal isn't some unique club subject to different rules. Kroenke isn't an exception to the rule - he is the same as the Glazers, Randy Lerner, FSG and Hicks/Gillet at Liverpool. Kroenke isn't God, he is a ruthless businessman concerned by the bottom line and reputational damage only.
If Kroenke sees the balance sheet shrinking, Wenker is history. Simple as that, it will be a financial decision.

Not sure if any of you remember but about 2/3 years ago, Kroenke's PR firm released a statement denying that Kroenke was someone who didn't care about winning. Now, obviously his recent comments at that conference are damning...until you remember that Yank sports and their franchise system is totally different to football. All Yank owners learn this. Hicks and Gillett were ruthless chancers and fan pressure saw them off.
When ManYoo fans began protesting with their dumb scarves, the Glazers bought them Tevez, brought in Evra, and won a PL and CL double.

What is this bullshit theory that Arsenal are somehow immune to the same rules every club is? We aren't. It's just another excuse to do sod all.

If Arsenal fans turn the pressure up massively on match days then the coverage will match it. If a Times lead football hack is saying the fans need to protest more, it'll be for a reason. If Lee Dixon says that irrespective of what Wenker says, the fans will decide when he goes, then that's the way it is.

A couple of banners is a good start. Then I think to what happened to the Marseille manager on Sunday night: in case you didn't know, he needed riot police to help escort him to the tunnel
Not for a minute suggesting this should happen at Arsenal but FFS how hard is it for ALL fans to get out the white hankies and wave them at a game?

[Redarmy]

Ha ha....trying to erase the great memories of the History making early years....2 Doubles and never to be forgotten INVINCIBLEs

WE ARE THE ARSENAL SO FUCK ALL THE REST :barsca

[Nos89]

I guess the reason why Arsenal fans don't protest as much is that through the years the custodians of the club have usually made the right decisions before the discontentment rose from the supporters.

We have had a boardroom for at least the last 5 years ago are not acting in the best interests of the club, just themselves. Now is the time to rally and let the board know how we feel. Wenger has been allowed to continue because he is delivering what the board expect, his direct bosses, not what the fans expect anymore.

Ultimately, the fans will turn on Wenger as the board are not about to take the abuse. A change is needed and unfortunately for him Wenger is in the direct line of fire. Let's just not let it get too personal.